Ben-DutkaWhen Sony announced the microtransaction prices for Gran Turismo 6 , they swore these were "entirely optional."
I'm not so sure about that.
Hey, I've been playing this franchise since its inception back on the original PlayStation. You won't find a bigger supporter of the series, although I certainly agree that we need an AI upgrade. I know full well why a game like GT6 is a car lover's dream, and why it rewards those who actually want to learn how to race. I get all that and I also understand that in regards to the microtransactions, nobody is putting a gun to my head. And I don't need them to finish the game.
But wait. There's something significantly different about this new installment and coincidentally, that difference greatly hinders your ability to rack up credits. For the record, you always had to grind if you wanted to earn a huge amount of money in any GT; it usually required finding a reward car that's worth a lot, and just racing that same event over and over and over. Yeah, it took several hours to earn the money you wanted and yeah, it could get boring. But you could do it.
In GT6, the most expensive cars are around 20 million (and higher) credits, but I'd probably be happy with Red Bull awesomeness that "only" goes up to about 5 million. Even that, however, seems extremely difficult. And why? Because quite simply, we're not getting anywhere near the number of reward cars we used to. In all GT games prior to GT6, we'd get lots of cars; we'd get 'em for completing sets of events and we'd definitely get them for completing tournaments. I finished the GT National Championship and was shocked to see I didn't get a car.
One could argue that indeed, we'll get those GT Vision cars from time to time. And maybe that makes up for things, especially if you take advantage of that well-documented glitch involving the gifted Mercedes AMG. That's cheating, though, yes? We never really got enough in standard winnings to rack up enough credits to purchase the best cars in the game. That's nothing new. But the reward cars always compensated; just find one that's worth a big chunk and keep winning it. You have to work to get to that point, too, remember. It's not like it was a glitch or an easy way out. You still had to be able to win the event that delivered the fancy car, which definitely required a lot of effort.
That was just fine. This…the the way game is set up, it feels suspiciously like they knew microtransactions would be an "option" all along, and they tailored the game that way. I could be wrong; Yamauchi and Co. maybe just wanted to make the game harder. They did exactly that with the new PP limitations for every event (so now you can't just put a supercar out there among Corollas). Still, this feels heavily skewed and you know, I've always said microtransactions are a slippery slope. Could this be an example of that? I'm afraid it might be.
Related Game(s): Gran Turismo 6
I'd probably just use the credit cheat and wIth no shame either. I don't play GT for it's "game" properties. No, it's for hardcore racing simulation. I'd rather just have all cars unlocked, like how fighting games mostly eventually learned, and just race the races per requisite. They're PP capped right? So I just don't care.
Thank you! This is how I feel. they gave us the cars. I am just using in game stuff they gave me. I just want to race and drive awesome cars. I finally get to drive some of these cars I could never get. no shame. They had no shame in the micro transactions
Last edited by frylock25 on 12/17/2013 1:56:31 AM
If you're just starting out, I actually recommend you guys do it. Like you said, races are PP capped, so it's not really cheating. If it is, then people who use the 25 anniversary cars are cheating too, only the official way lol. But yeah, I love the game, but if Sony is really heading in this direction with their franchises, we need to act in a way that gets the message across, and that's simply not giving in and being vocal about it. I'm glad Ben wrote an article about this, although, I don't think it's as bad as he think it may be. But really, being vocal can help, which is why Yoshida even comment about it.
I just want to warn that your replay data, photos, and cache will get deleted. Also to NEVER "get in" a car that isn't available in 1.00 (Vision and M4 for example) or it will freeze your game. Other than that have fun. It's pretty easy. Only thing you have to worry about is how fast your internet can download 1.3GB. Best way as said below, is definitely the BMW M4 way. Game really is fun, much more than GT5 I say, but too bad car prizes are only given twice (half and completion) and two more from license tests if you gold them. Gone are the days of getting prize cars for completing a set of events. They better not do this for GT7!
Last edited by daus26 on 12/17/2013 4:47:05 AM
I feel that because I paid for the game I can play it how I want to. if I can finally be rich in a gt game then I will. They just GIVE you the car! I don't have all the time in the world to grind races just to buy cars. I want money to be no object and it to be about the races.
Sure, have at it.
I'll agree that games we buy should let us play however we want it, but there has to be a balance for progression as well for some games. Say for this, we own all cars at the beginning (or super rich)… that would make it pretty pointless to go through all the races to earn credits or whatever. Part of a game is to have a feeling of accomplishment and achievement.
Personally, I think GT6 is just fine. Grinding is not as bad as this article may indicate for progression alone. I know someone who went through over 50% so far on the game without spending credits other than the starting car. Also keep in mind that license test and special events such as GoodWood can give you prize cars that'll help you in your career. Add that to the fact that you'll get Mercedes for free at the beginning.
But yes, some people out there just want to jump in to their favorite cars and have it, and I can't say there's anything wrong with that! I personally did this glitch for my second account, as I've already gone through game progression and just want to jump online with the cars I want. I don't need to for my main because as I said, it's not as bad as some people here are making it out to be.
Ben this is exactly the slippery slope some of us have been talking about in regards to micro transactions, and even DLC to some degree.
It is hard to know if games are being designed in such a way that make you want to buy micros because of some sort of really obnoxious time sync, after all its only a couple dollars for this car, or that engine etc. This is why micros work, there are lots of people dropping a couple bucks here and there and it supports this stupid gaming model.
No full priced game should have micros period. You pay 60 bucks for a game, it should be designed to unlock things at a reasonable pace.
I'm hoping this new generation isn't plagued with micros, its just such a terrible model.
I got Dead Space 3, it's crazy to see that downloadable content button everywhere so you can buy things to make the weapons better.
I've been saying they were a slippery slope the instant I heard about them.
I've been railing against these things since Mass Effect 3 came out almost two years ago. If you went on the Bioware forums in the months after release you'd see certain types of comments pop up repeatedly:
*Bronze/Silver level players asking Bioware to increase payouts at the end of missions.
*Complaints about the drop rate for rare weapons/characters/mods.
*Complaints by Gold level players that whenever they went looking for a public match they'd always seemed to wind up on Firebase White/Geth/Gold. That particular map lent itself well to a camping strategy. The four players would run to a room on the lower level and take cover behind counters. They'd wait for the enemy to come to them and would use pop-and-shoot tactics as well as grabbing Geth and pulling them over the counter to finish them off with a one-hit melee attack. The only time they would leave that room would be for mandatory objectives. The preferred name for the strategy was "Gold farming".
That last one was pretty big! Bioware's response was to redesign the map so that a stairwell opened up behind one of the counters, modify the Geth Pyros (one of the most annoying units) to make them immune to the grab attack and to introduce the Geth Bomber which would fly overhead and drop grenades. What they didn't do was to adjust payouts or drop rates.
It worked against the player then and it's working against GT players now. If these types of transactions show up in a game then the designers will inevitably skew the progression against the player. The smart ones won't be too overt about it but there will always be that slight psychological pressure aimed at breaking down your resistance and convincing you to pay to get ahead. I hadn't played Gran Turismo since GT2 but I did just what Ben suggested. Once I'd saved up enough to buy the Suzuki Escudo I used that every time I could and just kept grinding. It was time-consuming but still fun. What they're doing now doesn't sound like fun.
the thing that sucks about ME3 is that it forces you to play the multiplayer in order to get the best ending.
I might just not finish ME3 thanks to that.
@ WorldEndsWithMe I played through of all Dead Space 3 without ever paying anything in micro transactions.
But, yeah, microtransactions should not exist, let alone in a full priced game.
You don't need to play the multiplayer to get the best ending in ME3. The are other ways to get your galaxy readiness up.
yeah I won't buy anything for Dead Space 3 either, but that gun crafting bench is mighty lacking for those of us that won't pay, and I was just saying how it's kind of jarring to run into spots INSIDE a game that tell you to go buy more stuff. FFXIII-2 did that too.
I never said you weren't Ben :P, I was just saying this is what a lot of us have been B!@%#ing about.
I got Dead Space 3 in a humble bundle and … well yeah, the micros in there are obnoxious, not required but they are set up in a way to make them really easy to purchase.
Kryten, yeah I stopped playing the ME3 multiplayer because of how much of a grind it was. It stopped being fun.
I just really hope games stop being designed with these in mind.
If a game has micros and there is an element to the game that feels like a huge grind and you can alleviate that grind with paying some money then they designed it like that and it's just gross.
That's what I mean when I say that microtransactions are inherently bad, once a game is designed with them in mind it is warped.
The field gets tilted toward the need to buy these things, just because it's "possible" to do everything without paying doesn't mean it is reasonable to go through with it if everything is much harder to achieve and takes much longer than it should.
You are basically sold a broken game that you need to pay to fix.
This re- enforces my non purchase. I'd love to play this game, but not going to deal with this. So long gran turismo. It was fun.
This article talks about prize cars being seldom compared to previous GT. If anything, it's only one part we can take before we conclude how bad this game is catered around MTs. It's actually a fun game imo, and it wasn't even mentioned in Ben's review till now. To me games that are greatly hindered are the ones that have "buy buttons" everywhere and it's something you notice right away. It wasn't the case in GT for me, and now I'm just finishing up the game with not much left to do. You can't say that if it's "forced" on you.
I don't know how well you know GT, or if you've even played it, but if you love past GTs, you're terribly missing out. If not, sure why not just forget about it.
I finished the GT National Champioship earlier today too. A tough tournament because I used my Lexus LFA '12 with over 100 less PP than the requirement, and at times the races were close. So I was also shocked to see I didn't unlock a car; however, I did unlock a car for getting half the stars accomplished in IB class.
Very good article though. Agreed fully.
Love the LFA. I have a Lexus IS F '07 that's freakin' awesome for the money; almost as much bang for your buck as the Nissan GT-R (only 77,000 credits for a base 526PP, I think). The IS F was close to that.
By the way, I believe the cars change based on the car you're entering. It's a little annoying but I think it's true. In other words, even if you amped up your LFA to get as close to the limit as possible for that event, it'd still be a close race because you'd be up against faster cars.
Ben, I'm pretty sure that's not the case. I've actually had a situation where I was struggling against fast opponents, then as soon as I switched to a faster car, I actually had a slower "lead" car, and the race became too easy. It's really just random.
Yeah, GT5 was like that too. If the lead AI car was extremely fast, just exit the race and restart, and you'll get a different group of AI cars and the fastest one might be much easier to beat.
If you're putting in a car that's 150PP below the limit, I don't think you're racing the same cars as if your vehicle was 10PP below the limit. So it can't be random.
I've tried it both ways and for instance, when I was way below the mark, I never saw anything special. When I was close to the limit the Corvette Z06 showed up, along with a few other top-end cars.
Oh lord Polyphony, you just had to go this route didn't you.
I doubt Polyphony had much say in this. I think Sony, as their publisher led them to this. If we think about it, cars were as expensive in GT5, and in fact, harder to grind credits. Over time however, PD gave us log-in bonuses, high pay seasonal events, and PP bonus for using underperforming cars. You can even share cars with your friends. Now with GT6, all of those are taken away. Until I see them back, I'm going to assume the game's being made around this micro-transaction stuff.
Good points.
I also like to mention that Kaz himself didn't like MT back in the day, which is actually one of the big reason he canceled GThd. When asked about DLCs, he always says that he doesn't think about it until the game is out and finished. Add to the fact that PD gives us so much content free of charge over GT5's lifespan, and soon to be for GT6, PD to me has always been true to giving us the best value possible. It's already evident with the BMW M4, Mario Andretti, and Vision GT.
All of this doesn't matter though, because Sony is the publisher, and publishers are the ones that does the distributing and pricing. Sony can overrule everything PD decides to do.
For those of you who want more funds, there is a better way to farm money than with the vision concept car! The 20mil cheat works on the new BMW M4 and its about 120000 to buy. So stock up on this car then delete 1.01 patch and start shopping 🙂
I haven't been having trouble acquiring cars in GT6.
Besides the 25 cars I got free with the 15th anniversary edition, I already have bought/won an additional 25 cars, and I haven't even been grinding races yet.
I have only earned roughly 1 million credits through the 50ish races I've ran so far, but I'm not even halfway through the career yet.
That's not bad progress at all considering how little time I have actually invested in GT6 as of this posting due to work and college eating me alive.
Well, now it's only work eating me alive for about a month until mid-January, then I'll be back in work and school hell once again.
Gotta agree with you.
I don't think many people here have played the game, and with an article titled as this, it'll be impossible to get a point across. Even if MT had an affect on it, it's very "little" imo, and FAR from "forced."
The only thing I can agree here is that prize cars are few, but that's as far as I'll go. Beyond that, I don't see myself being too frustrated with this MT stuff, and will actually start over in another account soon. That's not something I'm willing to do if the game is impossible to enjoy unless I spend real life money on MTs. Sure there are crazy cars out there that costs 5 million plus, but there are so MANY to choose that are affordable and great to drive.
All of that is irrelevant. I never said you couldn't finish the game without grinding. I said it felt like the microtransactions were necessary to obtain the best/hottest cars, many of which priced at 20 million credits.
You're at 1 million and you're halfway through. Even if you earn a LOT more in the second half, you'd still have maybe enough to buy one car that's 3-4 million credits. That's it. There's no way to buy anything else, and you'd never be able to save up enough to do it again, unless you basically did every single race and event over again.
That is absolutely NOT the way it past GTs. Not even close.
@daus26,
Agreed, friend. 🙂
@Ben,
My only complaint with the PS3 GTs like daus26 mentions is the reduction in the number of reward cars earned for completing events.
Other than that, there really is not much difference in how the games have played out in terms of overall career credit earning potential.
I really don't mind grinding races to earn the money required to buy cars. Hell, I bought every car there was in GT5 at least once.
Every single one.
Yes, that's what I said. The difference in reward cars, which is the ONLY way we got a ton of money in past installments.
That's gone and it's because of microtransactions. This is what I believe.
I agree with you JRODO823! GT5 was just as bad until they started giving you log in bonuses! But it is a worry with these micro transactions!
That's a shame. I don't mind a bit of race repeating as it's all part of the narrative you create being a driver in this GT world. I'm a fan of huge games which I can play for 50+ hours and still be far from the end.
That said, if I need to spend several weeks racing a single race to get the money I need for a car to be able to enter the next untouched race, that's a bit far.
Boy Call of Duty DLC sure don't feel Optional.
When you wrote your review ben, I thought you had already went far enough to realize this. I wondered why you didn't mention anything about this earlier.
Before anyone starts wondering, I've pretty much platinumed the game already, with only the 7k miles trophy and 100 cars collection as the two trophies left, so I'm pretty far myself. I love GT, but I'll also be honest about it.
Going through the whole thing, I actually felt little grinding and certainly not as much as previous GTs. The prize cars have definitely been gimped down (immensely at that), but progression through the game is pretty normal compared to past GTs. Granted, I had big help with my 15th anniversary line-up, but from what I experience, you can definitely go through the game without grinding ridiculously, since events are more plentiful, with more varieties, and fair pay for the most part.
This will only work if you buy the right cars though, which I'll admit is a shame. Buying an expensive car that won't do much for you will really hurt you. Like past GTs though, for game progression you're always shopping for cars that gave you the bast value for your buck (and game progression), so it's not that big of a deal for me. Then, when you get towards the end, you start working towards cars that you really like to own. So really for me, I'm not ready to fully assume the game is fully-catered around micro-transaction yet, even though I'm leaning more towards it. I'm giving PD a month or so and see where it goes from here. I think I'm pretty sure though that it has some affect on it, but the "optional" part is still there.
But anyway, there is no car more than 20 million, and the Red Bulls are actually at 6 million apiece… it's no biggie, just something I feel like straightening up.
I think I'm done with gaming I'm so sick of those of you enabling it and defending it as though the word "optional" makes it ok to build games that almost makes it so you have to buy credits or whatever with real money. "No one is holding a gun to your head" that one is spoken alot. It is true, but hampering ones ability to progress in hopes of making extra profit is wrong. No matter what your argument in justifying these kinds of business practices are wrong. You people need to opn your damn eyes and take a stand against it. Seems with every game comes more and more cost. I'm so damn well done… HAVE FUN WITH GAMES THAT ARE GOING TO START CHARGING YOUR CREDIT CARD TO PLAY EACH LEVEL AFTER PAYING $60 FOR THE GAME.
so, shu was wrong?
we need to just ban MCs full stop, and that way we dont have to worry about this BS anymore.
if developers can implement them without f*cking the game up fine, but it looks like they cant, they just have to design the whole game revolving around them.
DS3 really f*cking pissed me off, even sending out like 5 bots at a time, it still took FOREVER to rank up the stuff needed to upgrade your guns.
3/4s of the way through that game and i had less upgraded fire power than i did 2 hours into the first two!
exactly why i never finished the game, got sick of constantly having $$$$$ shoved in my face, and putting in so much work and effort for pittens!
*pittance
Well that's a bummer. It's a wonder that I haven't seen more articles railing against this, considering it was one of the things that Forza 5 was really nailed for. There's a chance that Polyphony will balance it better as time goes on with updates; they did it for GT5, but I really hope that this isn't mandated. Man… not good. Now I'm even less inclined to pick up GT6. I'll remain content with 5 and wait for 7.
Forza 5 is pretty bad, and I can tell you for sure, GT6 is nothing like it. FM5 will even have an update later that will make the cars cheaper, which I assume is because it got hit harder for it. Pretty much every bad review of FM5 on Amazon is because of it. You won't see the same thing for GT6.
Seriously though, there aren't as many complaints about MTs in GT6 because it's not that BAD. The game is as fun as ever without resorting to it. Prize cars is a problem though. 🙁 Let's hope it won't be for GT7.
@Lawless SXE,
You're missing out on a great game by listening to other people and their reports.
My advice is to not take so much stock in what you read and hear, and experience it for yourself.
There are enough changes between 5 and 6 to justify the purchase, and the game is going to be getting support from Polyphony that goes way above what GT5 received, and that's insane.
Any people that are waiting for GT7 to release are really only inflicting punishment on themselves in my opinion.
daus, I know that it's not as bad as in Forza… I just find it odd that the severity of it in GT6 hasn't really been mentioned elsewhere.
JROD, I'm still debating with myself, and not just because of what others have said and written. I know that GT6 is a step up from GT5 solely in the features list, but I also went hands-on with it at the EB Expo and the improvements to the driving could be felt even from a fairly brief demo. It's more a matter of time and inclination and, right now, I don't feel as though I have enough of either to justify the purchase when I've only recently restarted GT5. Also… I'm playing vanilla GT5 for a reason; no adsl internet where I live, so I can't get the updates :/
I don't feel as though I'm 'punishing' myself by skipping GT6 as I feel that most of its premium content will wind up in GT7 in a year or two, and I can wait that long without issue.
Why in the world would you restart GT5?
That's masochism right there. 🙂
Last edited by JROD0823 on 12/18/2013 2:01:01 PM
It doesn't really bother me. GT5's career mode was a boring grind for money to buy the next car required to advance. I remember people complaining so loudly about it that PD actually increased the amount of credits you'd get for every race. GT6 is just the opposite – the cars I need are easily bought from my winnings, and most races don't require a specific car. There's also that "suggested cars" or whatever they call it where you can buy stuff at a discount.
Between the cars I got for pre-ordering the game, and all the ones I've won – you get one for completing each group of 3 hill climb events and two for getting gold on each group of license tests – I've got (almost) everything I need. Once you get to the S class races you get over 80,000 credits for a win (I've only done the first one so far). So it's quite possible to save up a couple million which will get you into the full race car price range.
When GT5 first came out it didn't have login bonuses or seasonal events with huge payouts. Those things came later. I think we'll probably see that with GT6 as well. Then the really expensive cars won't seem so unobtainable any more.
Having said that though I totally agree that microtransactions are one of the slipperiest slopes around. Hopefully my trust in Sony and Polyphony Digital isn't misplaced.
Unfortunately I'm an inch away front completing the National A license. The Kart Cup 100C has been harder than I thought. Those Gran Turismo Karts are very difficult to control and spin easily.
I started off with a million dollars that I have not spent because the anniversary cars have helped me save a lot of money in the game. I'm not spending one dime on micro transactions.
The payouts for GT5 and GT6 are very similar when it comes to the single player with two exceptions.
First one is the Seasonal races; in GT5 some of those paid around one million credits. GT6 offers no such thing, but the higher payouts didn't start to happen until later version anyways.
Secondly, I think the difference you are feeling is the fact the prices for painting and modifications seem to be higher priced. I will have to research it when it get home.
MT's have impacted things to a degree, no doubt.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 12/17/2013 11:19:08 AM
GT5's seasonal events started off pretty similarly.
I see no reason why they won't offer 1 million credit payout events down the road.
Also, car mods are only slightly more expensive on some items, and are actually cheaper on others.
Engine overhauls and rigidity restoration seem significantly cheaper for most cars, though.
lol, they may have started out similarly but GT5 didn't have MT's.