Ben-DutkaYes, I'm aware of the hatred flashing from the eyes of offended PC fans everywhere. But I'm used to it.
And to be honest, I freely admit that I'm not intimately familiar with the problems surrounding the Diablo III launch. Maybe each and every one of those issues could hit any console game release, too. I don't really know. I will further admit that current consoles are more like PCs than ever before, and what with constant updating and installing, it's not that much different from the PC experience. At least, not when compared to the early PlayStation days.
I should also add that some of my very best gaming memories came from PC gaming; this includes Earl Weaver's Baseball and Hero's Quest in my younger days, and long hours of multiplayer fun in high school and college with Baldurs Gate II , Heroes of Might and Magic III , Icewindale , and yes, Diablo II . Hell, the late '90s were pretty damn amazing for the PC (even though I was partial to the glory days of PS1 JRPGs in those days). So consider all that a big ol' disclaimer for those who wish to freak out.
But in general, from where I sit, Diablo III has begun to embody a few of the reasons why I went away from PC gaming. First is the absurd development cycles for these games, which makes absolutely no sense. Duke Nukem Forever is only one example, of course, but that turned out like sh** and how long have we been waiting on Half-Life 3 ? And now Diablo III , nearly 12 years after the last entry. I mean, at this point, I'm surprised people even care .
Then there's the obvious part- You've had 12 years to make this damn game. No, I don't know exactly how much time was spent in the development process (maybe it was only three or four years, I don't know), but the point is that if fans have waited patiently for this long, and there are massive server issues and a freakin' "game-ending bug," then that's just crap. The worst part is that there doesn't appear to be anywhere near enough rage and ire over this; we're not even close to the level of hostile backlash BioWare suffered for the Mass Effect 3 fiasco. And that game actually worked .
Lastly, if you're not even going to let people play your game if they don't want to use an Internet connection, then just call it what it is: A MMORPG. I won't get into that right now, but I think it should be mentioned. All in all, although I know consoles are basically computers these days, I'm fairly certain this whole mess likely wouldn't hit a big console entry. And I'm certain I won't have to wait twelve years for Uncharted 4 . Which, by the way, will probably blow any PC game out of the water, anyway.
Related Game(s): Diablo III
I have a copy of Icewindale somewhere, not sure what I did with it though.. I liked that game.
I also want to get into PC gaming, I made the mistake of buying a Laptop when I had the money to get a desktop, I liked the freedom of the laptop but it wasn't for me though, I should of went with the Desktop, poor decision on my end, now this Laptop is crap, USB's are broken on it. When I get more money I'm going to try and ask my brothers friend about helping me build a PC for me. I can get parts for free depending on what it is.
Last edited by Clamedeus on 5/17/2012 9:44:07 PM
PC gaming is fun, but there are a lot of people on the PC side who talk up their platform when, in the vast majority of cases (these days), it's just console gaming with a mouse/kb. Back in the 90s, PC gaming lead console development in many cases, but outside a number of relatively niche areas, it's in large part the other way around these days (as piracy means there's more money in console gaming, and strangely enough, developers like to get paid!)
I'm going to play Battlefield 3 and some PC Exclusive games, I want to play some MMORPG's though on PC.
Aye, word is that BF3 on PC is much better than console (as long as you can stand mouse/kb controls), and if you're looking at MMOs, PC is where it's at (LOTRO and WoW are the only two I've tried – if your a LotR fan, LOTRO is deffo worth a look).
Lots of great indie stuff as well – some quality old-school dungeon crawlers have been released recently. And strategy games – lots of em 🙂 – which is my main poison on it.
Other then that first day when servers were getting crammed, and which was to be expected anyway, the game has worked perfectly since then as I'm just getting into Act 3. Was I upset that first day, yes slightly, but I knew it was coming with all the world trying to play at one time. But I'm enjoying the game more then any other one out currently, since the servers have been fixed. People can hate all they want, the game is great.
That's fine and dandy.
Based on what everyone else is reading, things are hardly going smoothly. …PC fans tend to gloss over whatever they can to make things seem right as rain, I have to say.
All those problems were primarily the first day. Those that are complaining now just haven't tried it since then, and some have even stated that. It's also primarily confined to US servers. As I played on foreign servers just fine when the US servers were down.
And console fans do their share of glossing over problems as well, so it's not just limited to PC fans ;P This instant gratification era we live in nowadays isn't helping either.
I have to agree with Geobaldi here. And in doing so have to shine a light on a problem. When something like the day one server issues go wrong, people freak out and then continue to complain about it ad nauseum, even when there is no problem left. The Asia and Europe servers have been up with no issues and the America servers had a three hour issue on the night of after launch after the day one issues happened.
Let's not forget that server and hacking issues can happen on a console and we saw that quite clearly with the whole PSN hacking fiasco that kept the PSN down for a good long while.
Ben, you admittedly haven't kept up with the issues pertaining to Diablo 3, and that is perfectly fine. You don't like PC gaming any more, and that too is perfectly fine. To each their own, I say. But, you especially should know that just because there is noise on the net about an issue, does not make that issue true. Were there day one issues? Undoubtedly. Was I pissed about it? You bet your ass I was. Am I now enjoying the game? 100% yes.
But, to your point about always-on internet requirements, I whole heartedly agree with you, it's effing stupid for a mainly single player game, and I am angry about that decision. I am also angry at Ubi for that inclusion in ACII or which ever one had it. They have since done away with it and that is a nice thing.
But, all in all, I just want to say that PC is still a great medium for gaming just as much so as consoles in my opinion, and I know that you will vehemently disagree with that, and again, that's fine. To each their own. I love gaming of all varieties be it on PS3, 360, or PC….just can't get behind the Wii.
I totally agree that PC is as good a medium for gaming as console, but I _also_ agree that PC-only gamers tend to overlook the deficiencies of their platform to paint it in a more favourable light vis-a-vis consoles. Of course, all three 'sides' of the console world do it to each other as well, but PC gamers are the only ones that tend to claim that PC gaming is a class above, when it is so obviously not if you play both (which I do, and a fair bit of). And I totally jive with where Ben's coming from – listening to PC elitists go on is pretty painful. Listening to them calling themselves hardcore is cringeworthy.
Oh no, it definitely isn't 'Okay' right now even.
Every time I hop on, I get server lag that makes my latency range from 400 to 1600 -_- while every other game server I check on steam are all under 100 which are smooth as hell.
That, and my achievements were erased and were a problem as well. Login problems were for thousands of issues regarding Error 3006 and 3007 that dropped you out of your game for no reason and for reasons of giving your Templar Merc a Shield or something like that.
That and yesterday I got dropped out of my 'Single player game' 5 times without warning and that wasn't via my own internet problems, that and they 'rolled back servers' which would drop you out of your Single player game which of course isn't single player because SP requires their servers as well, their DRM screws over the consumers as a means of simply trying to prevent piracy : And when the rollbacks happened for me? they only gave 4 minute warnings, in which I wasn't even near a warp portal or check point annnnd it of course removed my progress…..
All of this would be avoidable, if we all weren't forced to go on Servers…. since SP doesn't exist…
Also, this image summarizes the servers:
http://nowgamer.net-genie.co.uk/siteimage/scale/0/0/328719.gif
The point you make about the game needing to work on day one I totally agree with. Games should work from day 1! Patches are for minor issues like a game occasionally freezing at one point or something, not for fixing game ending glitches.
As my Dad always says: if it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
I hope everyone learned something about "always-online" games.
Ubisoft comes to mind.
Why a single player game NEEDS an online connection is just beyond me!
online only because its the easiest way to keep a eye on what people are doing.
if your offline than its much easier to pirate the game, or install mods or whatever else.
not exactly going to stop it, but it certainly helps slow it!
i can understand why they have done it, especially with the auction house thing which could be a real issue.
if people are offline than they could install mods to exploit that and gain unfair advantages over others so when you think about it online only is the easiest sure fire way to fix problems.
btw, I didn't realize Diablo 3 required an always online connection. That sucks hardcore. Hopefully this generates enough outrage that Blizzard unteathers it. I have yet to play through a a Diablo game. The dungeon crawl RPG's have always had a hard time holding my interests.
Yeah, so if I didn't pay my phone bills and stopped using the internet in general, I wouldn't be able to play a game I PAID for? Awesome.
I did actually bother getting Diablo 3. The game itself is pretty great… aside from the 4-5 hours of server downtime yesterday, and random server drops yesterday and today. I have a pretty deep hatred of this whole "always online" game style, especially when I don't bother playing multiplayer 95% of the time. In short, it's been sheer ridiculousness.
@Ben: Love articles like this, pure, absolute, personal opinions on a subject. Its the reason I keep coming back to PSXExtreme! You have every right to feel outraged by the lack of media surrounding these launch issues. I mean SWTOR (Justified), MA3, Tera; all had a blitz of media surrounding there debacle.
This is another example of a company taking advantage of its audience. They know from past experiences and tests that a large portion of the gaming community, will shell out large amounts of money as long as the brand name is there.
I mean we can talk about the server issues, till we choke to death. The real problem here is the fact that so much has been left out, PvP, Real Money Auctions, and some other ancillary stuff. These things were all presented to the media, the consumer as a selling point. This same media blitz can be seen with the likes of SWTOR; promises that are only fulfilled later down the road.
So how can a company do this and get away with it, because they have done it in the past and have succeeded. Diablo or Blizzard or more importantly Activision is a Brand now. With the likes of Heinz, M&M'S to use a few. It doesn't matter what they are selling now, people want it and will wait for it. Wait for it in development or after they bought it, they trust in the brand and what the brand says.
If the brand is having problems the consumer understands and accepts those problems as there own. A brand would never mislead a consumer, it couldn't; it has giving us what we wanted! Bioware is not a brand, Blizzard / Activision is; and that's why the two are not treated equal.
It has its problems, but it's a pretty damn good game. As far as I know you haven't even played it yet…
None of the comments made require playing. He never addresses gameplay issues, story aspects, or anything you would need first hand experience to have an opinion about. Something like "server issues" and "game ending bugs" are objective facts that don't require experience to know.
I mean, I've never smoked, been apart of a smoking study, nor conducted any research of any kind, but I still know it's bad for you. You can't say I don't know that just because I've never had direct experience with it.
I once gave a friend of mine a PC game, it hadn't been too long since it came out but it did have afew patches since it was released. Yeah, it sounded like a real pain to go out looking for every single patch it had and to check if was even safe to download from the sites you find it on. I felt kinda bad for making him look up crap for an hour or two before he could play it, not counting downloading. I don't think I would want to put up with that crap every time I delete a game to make space on the HDD, or for any reason. As for always on DRM, yeah keep that crap away from my consoles. Does anyone else here think that making consoles more like a pc is just making it more hacker-friendly?
I don't know if you can really use Blizzard as a prime example when talking about PC game life cycles. They have a tendency to take their sweet time. Especially with WoW; that game was ready for a sequel a couple years ago, but they keep adding expansion packs. Oh well, people still play it, I guess. As for Half-Life 3, Valve has come out with 2 expansions to HL2, Portal, Portal 2, Left 4 Dead, Left 4 Dead 2, and Team Fortress 2 since HL2 came out, so they've been pretty active.
The development-end aside, I've discovered that, online anyway, nearly all of the PC gamers I've encountered are the most obnoxious beings on the face of the planet. They're so ******* smug and act superior to consoles, when the fact remains that we've been using the same hardware for nearly 6 years, and the quality continues to steadily improve. Sure, the hardware is a bit outdated by this point, but I'm not really a graphics whore. The PS3 exclusives are more than enough for me.
Conversely, most PC gamers I know in person are quite friendly and cool about the whole thing. Most of them also have consoles and realize the benefits of having both. I've been wanting to get into PC gaming for a while now, but I can't really justify the price right, especially already owning my PS3. My next computer needs to be more suited for high quality audio production anyway as that will be more use professionally.
Alright, I'm done ranting now.
Yeah – it's the PC-only gamers that give PC gaming a bad name. Everyone I know who does both console and PC is balanced, and knows both have their place. PC gaming can be a lot of fun, and a mouse/kb is a perfectly legitimate control choice (but _not_ more hardcore – if anything, it's an easier to use experience for most genres, and since when was easier to use more hardcore?) But console gaming in most genres (shooters, RPGs, racers) is just as deep and engaging. Ironically, when it comes to PC games that are hardcore, and unlike anything you can get on console, most of the PC Snobs don't play 'em anyways! No skin off my nose, those PC-only snobs only embarrassing themselves ;).
556pineapple
You should meet a friend of mine.
PC gamer. Big guy, believes EVERYTHING is better on PC.
Works in IT and knows how to get around software restrictions.
Pays $120 per month for his unlimited diamond package internet connection.
He THINKS Crysis is the best looking game ever made. He shrugged of Uncharted 3 AND God of War 3!! He refused to believe that he MIGHT like these games if they were also on PC.
He often cheats and dominates in multiplayer PC games, and concentrates more on winning than having fun.
He hates Rock Band, Singstar and anything Sony related. He did tolerate Lips and Dance Central, heck, I've even got a video of him dancing to Lady Gaga!!
You should all meet him. Anti-Sony, PC elitist, MS lover, debate team champion, gym junky, heavy drinker, loud and always right. Bought a 360 for several friends' birthdays in an attempt to pursuade them to worship Halo and Gears. PSXextreme and my friend would get along SOOOO well!!!! 😛
Dancemachine,
Unreflected, elitist fanboys are annoying regardless of platform. I know of several console fans that are both loud mouthed, elitist and are "always right" too. In fact, everyone that hangs around on this site should know of at least a couple. 🙂
For me personally it's equally annoying regardless if they represent "my" platform/genre/brand/whatever or not.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/18/2012 5:40:41 AM
Nothing is so loudmouthed as insulting generalizations and fingerpointing at anonymity, eh Beamboom?
:p
That one went straight over my head, Under. Woosh 😀
Weird, I go to the gym everyday save Saturday. I work in the computer industry. I own a 360, PS3, and a very nice gaming PC. I have a $129 internet connection. I think with the right hardware a PC port can look drastically better than on consoles. But here is where the weird part comes in; I love Uncharted, Gran Turismo, Metal Gear, and a whole lot of other PS3 exclusives.
I almost felt offended there.
"loud and always right" being a gym junky and heavy drinker don't fit together.
You'll be surprised Alexander!
if he's a heavy beer drinker kind of person, I just can't see that ever happening being a gym junky.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 5/18/2012 11:23:08 PM
Not beer, he hates the stuff.
Whisky, on the other hand… (he claims there's no carbs in whisky)
I am cool either way; as long as the game is good and the execution is superlative in game play and graphics I am happy to try it…
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
This article reminds me of The Last Guardian and Final Fantasy Versus XIII.
But, oh, wait… This is supposed to only apply to PC gaming.
You're talking about Japanese developers who are at least as guilty at long development times as PC devs.
The Last Guardian and Final Fantasy Versus XIII are both technically new IPs rather than sequels in established franchises, and if either comes out in the next five damn years, they'll still beat a number of PC sequels.
Ico… Nico… Trico…
Same franchise.
Same as a [main numbered] Final Fantasy or a Super Mario, which don't have any real ties between titles, but are still considered sequels.
At least, please try to hide your double standards.
Last edited by Hynad on 5/18/2012 1:37:10 AM
The Last Gaurdian is a rather poor example as it was only announced three years ago at E3 2009.
"Existence of the game was first hinted in a January 2008 job listing on Sony Japan's corporate website, which depicted a single screenshot of the upcoming third Team Ico title for the PlayStation 3 and advertised open positions for the development team."
Hynad, even if it has been 4 years for TLG, it still doesn't equate to Diablo 3's 12 year in-between. Hense Ben's 5 years and it would still beat some PC sequels. lol
As for FF, the last FF to release was this year… so….
Not sure what you're arguing here exactly…
Cant really blame them for the mandatory internet connection to play the game,piracy left them no choice.
I wonder if they knew how many sales they lost from the "always on" internet requirement, compared to the number of sales lost from pirated copies.
HAHA!!! Piracy is NEVER stopped! It is only delayed or slowed. You can never contain piracy. Diablo III will be cracked with a fake server patch. The game will then be mass pirated.
@DanceMachine
Based on how Diablo 2 is played, I doubt many refused to buy it because of the always connected piece. Even if you could be offline, it's the type of game that benefits the player more to be online.
But I agree… I hate the need to be online for a SP portion…
Piracy is a gigantic threat against the entire PC platform as a gaming platform. It's no laughing matter and all, and their work against that should be supported. Even by console gamers.
What PC today isn't online when you turn it on anyway? I really don't find the online requirement to be a big issue at all. It's mildly annoying, yes. But compared to the *reason* why it's there I think it's 100% OK. Just like I will defend surveillance cameras to fight crime too.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/18/2012 9:47:15 AM
No!
Piracy will still exist, and the people who pirate it now have a better version!
So Ben, still think Diablo III belongs on PC and PC only? I know we haven't had a lot of action-RPGs of the same ilk on console lately, but I don't know of a single action-RPG of the same type that's launched with as much trouble on PS3 or even PS2 (Champions of Norrath did what Diablo does, generally, with a lot less hiccups at launch – more control over character creation and skills as well ;)).
Maybe not the same type… But Skyrim and Fallout were plagued with problems that only got resolved weeks and even months after launch.
Last edited by Hynad on 5/17/2012 11:37:22 PM