Ben-DutkaYes, I'm aware of the hatred flashing from the eyes of offended PC fans everywhere. But I'm used to it.
And to be honest, I freely admit that I'm not intimately familiar with the problems surrounding the Diablo III launch. Maybe each and every one of those issues could hit any console game release, too. I don't really know. I will further admit that current consoles are more like PCs than ever before, and what with constant updating and installing, it's not that much different from the PC experience. At least, not when compared to the early PlayStation days.
I should also add that some of my very best gaming memories came from PC gaming; this includes Earl Weaver's Baseball and Hero's Quest in my younger days, and long hours of multiplayer fun in high school and college with Baldurs Gate II , Heroes of Might and Magic III , Icewindale , and yes, Diablo II . Hell, the late '90s were pretty damn amazing for the PC (even though I was partial to the glory days of PS1 JRPGs in those days). So consider all that a big ol' disclaimer for those who wish to freak out.
But in general, from where I sit, Diablo III has begun to embody a few of the reasons why I went away from PC gaming. First is the absurd development cycles for these games, which makes absolutely no sense. Duke Nukem Forever is only one example, of course, but that turned out like sh** and how long have we been waiting on Half-Life 3 ? And now Diablo III , nearly 12 years after the last entry. I mean, at this point, I'm surprised people even care .
Then there's the obvious part- You've had 12 years to make this damn game. No, I don't know exactly how much time was spent in the development process (maybe it was only three or four years, I don't know), but the point is that if fans have waited patiently for this long, and there are massive server issues and a freakin' "game-ending bug," then that's just crap. The worst part is that there doesn't appear to be anywhere near enough rage and ire over this; we're not even close to the level of hostile backlash BioWare suffered for the Mass Effect 3 fiasco. And that game actually worked .
Lastly, if you're not even going to let people play your game if they don't want to use an Internet connection, then just call it what it is: A MMORPG. I won't get into that right now, but I think it should be mentioned. All in all, although I know consoles are basically computers these days, I'm fairly certain this whole mess likely wouldn't hit a big console entry. And I'm certain I won't have to wait twelve years for Uncharted 4 . Which, by the way, will probably blow any PC game out of the water, anyway.
Related Game(s): Diablo III
I dunno about about PC gamers – but I can tell you Wii gamers are absolute vermin. And Mac gamers – pond scum
HAHA! Ben what have you done! 🙂
Nah, all gaming systems have potential to be really fun.
The scum is in the people who exclusively play CoD and nothing else! Right, ulterscot?
@Underdog15
*rimshot* Score!
Last edited by Clamedeus on 5/18/2012 4:17:51 PM
*scum* in gaming, u got be kidding me.
Hmm… I find myself wanting to take part in this debate… I feel the itch to get into a fight… but… I'm not sure I care enough about the topic…
Anyways… my PC is gaming ready, and I have a few games on there. Got a nice graphics card, fast CPU, lots of RAM… I actually just built it last month… But I will say this… it's way more fun to lounge on the couch with the console…
The couch lounging is why I am a console gamer too. 🙂
To true, couch gaming is the best! However, that is not an excuse not to be a PC gamer now. With HDMI out on all AMD/Nvidia video cards your PC can be enjoyed from the couch too. I honestly thought about this a while ago. I just like Sony, plain and simple. just like some guys like fat/skinny women. It just resonates well with my physiology!
I have a GTX460 video card which has an HDMI out port as well. But I don't really enjoy having a keyboard on my lap. And if I needed a mouse, that would be tough to do on a coach… I'm not going to buy a tv-dinner tray for gaming…. lol
I couch lounge as well…but with my PC and console. I have not bought any new PC games because I am highly addicted to StarCraft II but sometimes it gets a bit repetitive so I transition to my PS3. I have a High end tower with i7 and an NVIDIA card (liquid cooled due to no AC where I live). I like both PC and console but if I had to choose one, the console definitely wins.
Under, there are gamepads for the PC as well, and some of them are really good too. I used one from Saitek that I were pretty satisfied with, back when I were a PC gamer.
Last edited by Beamboom on 5/18/2012 2:56:56 PM
What pisses me off with PC gaming other than the DLP(I think thats what its called) is that some developers will put out games broken and wait for modders to fix them. EA and Bethesda come to mind. The fact that PC modders can rewrite code and "fix" issues with games and the developers either dont or cant makes me wonder about the direction that gaming development is heading or should go.
* I am a cynical person when it come to the motives of others by the by.
I actually agree with the essence of the article here. Now I am more talking about what Ben is saying towards Diablo 3 not pc gaming in general, as I am a gamer and I play competitive shooters on my PC and exclusives on my PS3.
It is ridiculous that a company as top tier as blizzard released a product that was this unstable. The online only is obvious to most people, the worst thing added to the game. Anyway with a shred of knowledge knows that they could have had an offline only mode that couldn't connect in anyway to online, as well as having their closed battle.net, which in fact is what they did for D1 and D2. As we all know, pirates will figure out a way around this one day and it will be like every other DRM game out there. Harder on the legit customers and no problem for the pirates.
The other problem is how could a company that is running the most successful MMO have such unstable servers for a game, that shouldn't require the same data transfers as an MMO? Like Ben said, if its online only they should call it an MMO.
I have other problems with the game, as they essentially dumbed down the gameplay, made the graphics so they would appeal to WoW players and added a completely unneeded real money auction house to their game.
Instead of making a game for Diablo fans, they decided to make a game for WoW fans, that would hopefully sucker in Diablo fans and its just terrible. There are so many promising ARPGs coming out this year that Diablo has gone completely off my radar until a severe price drop. Torchlight 2 from the closed beta is leagues ahead of Diablo 3, actually it was made by most of the people who made Diablo 2 so, thats probably why.
I also think that is is unfair that its not getting the "rage" that ME3s ending got. I personally think it deserve huge criticism for its faults but apparently no one super loud on the internet does?
I personally like long development cycles, I think 3 years is the minimum it should take for a blockbuster game, but 12 years with all of the problems is just ridiculous.
I'm not going to argue about this, and I'm glad a lot of people seem to understand what I'm saying. Maybe this means the magical hold PC gaming has had on the gaming community is loosening.
But I really won't be dragged into any massive debate because frankly, I don't have the motivation. Microsoft and Nintendo fans have nothing on the PC elitist crowd, who are by FAR the worst of the biased groups, primarily because none of them have ever been wrong about anything a day in their lives.
I'll just sum up with this, and no, I won't be replying further-
I already wrote the disclaimer in the article, but of course, that wasn't enough. And I don't really care. The point that it's okay to wait a decade or more for a game – which has happened numerous times in the PC realm – is absurd. It'd be one thing if when the title finally released, it absolutely blew everything else out of the water. But that isn't true; in fact, it isn't even close to true.
Saying, "oh, it's quality over quantity" is total BS. Uncharted isn't quality? Assassin's Creed isn't quality? God of War, Killzone, Gears of War, etc, etc, isn't quality? You can't be serious. Diablo III isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread as far as I can tell, and that's just based on professional reviews. If I go by fan feedback, there are all sorts of problems that – resolved now or not – are completely and entirely unforgivable for a game with THAT long of a development cycle.
You don't give free passes to that. And you don't give free passes to a platform that basically gets one massive exclusive every once in a great while we're all supposed to drool over. I never mentioned modding or Steam or anything like that. Every platform has its benefits; I never once said PC didn't. I'm speaking from a personal standpoint, where those features don't mean anything to me.
Yes, I'm allowed to say I can't stand PC gaming, just like anyone else on earth is allowed to say they can't stand PS3 games. For all those who are so lovey-dovey with the "I can express my opinion" philosophy, I would assume you people would be able to understand that the door swings both ways.
How dare you!
Ah, but while the door may swing both ways, the lock can only be unlocked from one side.
That had absolutely no meaning whatsoever. xD
Ben, you are fine don't worry! 🙂 It's a great article and gets everyone talking no doubt. We all have opinions and it just happens that my opinion and yours shake hands. Keep up the good work and really enjoy this site!
You're saying you don't care, but proceed to write a huge defensive response (a sign of complete insecurity in what you just wrote).
You said you won't argue nor debate, but attempt to debate points in this hugely contradicting post?
I don't understand how you do it to your self.
If you have to come back and write a huge defence and "clarification", then you must not be sure of what you're complaining about and you must of read posts that completely obliterated your weak foundation for an argument (and even proceeded to delete comments to save face, a common practice with you) and thus needed to again, save face….well, attempt to.
And your last quote….what?! I swear….it's becoming absolutely laughable. How can you say that and then proceed to delete comments that were civil and offered debate? Oh that's right, because you are being a massive hypocrite….And if you dare try and say i was being out of order, i have the comment to repost to prove how wrong you are. The usual thumbs up over yours too….yeah, hugely offensive post.
Speaking of the thumbing, does it not speak volumes that you get thumbed down insanely at your own site?
Should i begin to understand why your considered a laughing stock elsewhere? Because you're not helping yourself.
Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 5/19/2012 9:49:06 AM
I am sick and tired of all the ridicules DRM. Its one of the main reasons I like console gaming but this online pass things is basically a weird way of having DRM.
Thumbs down with no rebuttal, figures. It will smooth out over time, but still I have been in the Torchlight 2 beta and it is leagues above Diablo 3. It plays better, has more customization, LAN mode, single player AND multiplayer, and no DRM. At least someone knows how to do things right.
Oh no doubt there are plenty of PC games without DRM, mostly indie games, which happen to be almost all the games I buy on PC
Sorry to continue my raging rampage and tirade, but I've died a total of 19 times over server lag the last few times I played. 19. If I could return this damn game, I would have.
Gee, and someone in this very comment thread just said that all the problems were gone…hmmmm…
Blame people with horrible internet connections, not the game. This issue goes for every game that has an online component.
Last edited by Geobaldi on 5/18/2012 8:52:28 PM
Seems like an awful lot of people with crappy Internet connections then.
And if that's the case, I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to make a game that requires a connection.
Ben stop being a hater! Come on….so the game has issues at release…so do console games. Can't we all get along and enjoy what we enjoy? (minus COD, F that game)
I hardly think it's being a "hater" to have a problem with a game that took 12 years to get here, sucks at launch, causes a ton of hate editorials, has a game-ending bug, and demands that everyone be online to play.
That's not "hate." That's logical observation and criticism. PC fans will understand this sooner or later.
I have to agree with Ben on this. I actually played the beta, and half the time I was unable to connect. Yet they still went ahead with launching this?
Besides the dumbing down of the franchise, the online only is terrible. Literally if you lag out for a second it kicks you, thats only if you manage to get on to their server in the first place. Most mmos you will lag out, and then everything catches up, not here or at least not in the beta.
Ben might be slightly over reacting, but his reasons for doing so are completely legit. I back them up from having played the game and having a terrible experience. Although I haven't experience with the game ending bug, I have heard of it. Also this is based on the open beta, how much they fixed in the 2 weeks after that I really can't say. But from the looks of it….not much?
In the end, it comes down to Ben thinking that they should be accountable, which is fair. After all the company with the worlds most successful MMO can't launch with stable servers? Its not only that it is a rocky launch, its that it is in a lot of peoples experiences catastrophic.
Whether or not mandatory internet is neccessary, it's damned annoying. I'm glad Dark Souls is coming to pc with, at least temporarily, extra content, but games for windows live blows.
THere's definately an uneasiness about getting PC games as day one purchases. Those who try to deny that it isn't an issue are lieing to themselves. The very nature of having a one size fits all OS across thousands of hardware configurations just asks for problems.
..but on the bright side. Gaming on PC allows for lots of perks not found on more controlled console environments, not to mention beast like graphics cards that can churn out insane res, frames, and other cool techy effects.
I've been doing Batman Arkham City and holy freaking crap it's gorgeous on high settings. Too bad the launch of that game was botched too. Oh well, that's why I go for cheap'o $15 or less deals. I've only been burned hard once. My Rage still doesn't play =/
Most of these problems would've been a non-issue if Blizzard hadn't insisted on the stupid always-on internet connection even for single player games. Completely unnecessary and stupid, creating all sorts of possible server downtime and lag issues for no reason whatsoever.
I'll definitely get the game sooner or later being a HUGE Diablo fan (both 1 & 2) but this is one of those annoyances that make me glad I didn't get it day one…
Consoles are simple (simple is good). Uncharted is an interactive movie (which is what ND were aiming for – everyone wants to be a hero in a hollywood blockbuster). Consoles are for simple people (don't you also own a console…?). Uncharted is not really a game (UC2: 12 hours total playtime. In those 12 hours – minus 1.5 hours for cutscenes – you will run away from a tank while in amongst a gunfight with locals and enemys, run amok an untouched sanctuary purched at an awe-inspiring height, on snow covered mountains, where you'll also solve innovative puzzles, & also sneak through an almost-perfectly replicated nepal warzone, and will do so with some of the most unique 3-D platforming in years). Consoles are dumbing people down (dumbing everybody down would create a simple world; thus remove it of corruption, subjugation and all other malevolent things that were thought up by evil masterminds). Uncharted is doing the same (Uncharted = world peace! Whooo!).
All in good humour – no malicious intent 🙂
This game isn't an MMORPG. An MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) is a game where everyone interacts with everyone on the same server visually and not just in chat. As it stands there is a 4 player limit per game. If chat among other players is enough to qualify as an MMORPG you might as well call Mibbit one as well. If just requiring online play and chat is enough then you can call Battlefield 3 (PC version) an MMORPG while you are at it as well. It requires an internet connection to play single player too.
This game actually should be classed under Online CO-OP. It is obviously targeted that direction. Friends can join in on your game at any time and you can even make it public if you wish to. You can play the game single player if you wish but that wasn't the goal.
Who are you to say what the "goal" is. Diablo at its core has always been a single-player RPG. The first game didn't even have any multiplayer online stuff.
That's like saying Uncharted 3 is first and foremost an online shooter…
"The first game didn't even have any multiplayer online stuff."
Wrong. The first Diablo was 4 player.
Last edited by Geobaldi on 5/21/2012 4:33:04 AM
I'm w/ most others, the whole must be on-line to play is total BS, if I want to play on-line then I'll log into SWTOR or WoW and go from there. They really need to turn 3 into how 2 was, an off-line game w/ an on-line option for those who want to play w/ others… I had so much fun w/ D2 but I haven't played D3 much at all yet, although a lot of that is cause I'm enjoying the stories in SWTOR a great deal…
Did something happen in your personal life, Ben? I've read a lot of your editorials and this is the first one that made my face wrinkle up. I had to check to make sure it wasn't the 1st of April. I don't even care about the content or opinion of your post. Just seemed like you raged out for no reason over something you haven't actually experienced yourself. It's just…strange. Hope everything is okay, man.
I read this site because I respect Ben's views and trust him to give me an honest and often humorous opinion of a game or situation.
I can see his honest and amusing take on this situation above. (though my opinion is different in this case)
I read this site because it's community is so mature and willing to discuss things rationally and with respect for other's opinions.
Where did that community go?
Wish my first post were under better circumstances…
I think hating PC gaming just for Diablo 3's screw up is pretty harsh. Yes they should have anticipated the rush, yes I was miffed at the amount of downtime for the first few days, but I also knew what I was getting into when I bought an online only game. Obviously it's not the same situation since LBP could be played offline but when LBP first launched the servers got DESTROYED and they had to take them offline entirely for a good few days. Any game with an online component is destined to have trouble the first few days of launch, how much trouble it has is what the players will rage about. They'll also forget it once it's over with cause they're fickle like that.
There are however some brilliant PC only games. I personally got my PC to play 360 exclusives that were also on PC due to not liking the pay for online policy Microsoft has going on. I've also prepurchased Guild Wars 2 and Torchlight 2 and have gotten some great titles and dirt cheap prices due to the crazy sales on digital games. I use Steam for most of my games so I haven't had a problem with DRM yet.
Also the time of DRM like this will some day happen to consoles as well. The rumors of one time activation keys for PS4 and Xbox 720 are pretty discouraging, especially since they may very well jack the price up for console games next gen. Also existing online passes have done some terrible things for the used game market. Games with online codes sell for cheaper which means they of course have less value when you sell them back, regardless of whether or not you've used the code. For that reason I'm actually glad that I finally built a good PC for my gaming needs.
While I know you're dislike of PC gaming isn't going to change (and I'm sure it still hasn't) it is still a great platform and if the gaming developers actually cared about their cross platform releases it probably would be the best platform. How it stands currently though PC gets a lot of gimped games for some reason.