Ben-DutkaAlthough it's probably nothing more than an unfounded rumor, there is some talk about next-generation consoles blocking used games.
And as far as Crysis developer Crytek is concerned, that's just fine. In fact, it's "awesome." In speaking to CVG , Crytek director of creative management, Rasmus Hojengaard, first spoke about the problems of dealing with complex new hardware.
"The worst thing that can happen is they make something that's very complex for developers, regardless of how awesome it might theoretically be. So getting hardware that allows you to quickly get prototypes up and running, and any kind of scalability they can offer will be great as well, as long as everyone has that scalability and not just a select few."
Then, Hojengaard was asked about the possibility of the new systems from Sony and Microsoft banning the play of pre-owned games (a much-discussed topic), to which he replied:
"From a business perspective that would be absolutely awesome. It's weird that [second-hand] is still allowed because it doesn't work like that in any other software industries, so it would be great if they could somehow fix that issue as well."
The haul generated by the three million sales produced by Crysis 2 would've been much more significant for both publisher and developer had they not missed out on profiting from used game sales. Therefore, it's unsurprising to hear Hojengaard say this; he's hardly the only developer to support it. However, that being said, analysts have said it's very unlikely that either the new PlayStation or Xbox will actually block used games.
For the time being, the pre-owned game debate will continue to rage.
I'm sorry, but if Crytek believes that, they're freakin' morons. Sure, it puts more money into their pockets at the end of the day, but a system that blocks used games also blocks rented games as well as borrowed games through friends. Block all that, you block a large base of gamers who'll potentially never own your game. It's just my opinion on the matter. The way I see it, EVERYTHING can be sold on the second-hand market whether it's a movie, a car or a head of hair. What makes games so special that they don't receive the same status? If this is the future of gaming, I will retire as a gamer at the of the PS3's life.
Last edited by tridon on 4/25/2012 9:55:02 AM
OH THE HUMANITYYYYY!!!!!!
A little too much drama, for me. ;p
Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/25/2012 10:07:28 AM
Seriously. The notion of buying your games new will prompt you to give up gaming? Seems just a tad dramatic, don't you think?
Nope, not drastic at all. I've watched the greediness in the video game industry increase above and beyond anything that could be found last generation. These rumours for the PS4 and 720, if true, will push me over the edge.
I have no problem buying my games new (only 3 of my last 10 games were bought used–they were PS1 and PS2 titles). Like tridon, what I have a problem with is companies trying to wrest away the consumer's right to choose how they consume and use their bought-and-paid-for product.
Want to lend an awesome game to a friend or play it at their house? Best pack your console up and bring it with you.
Want to rent a game you're not sure about? Nope. Full price or nothing.
Want to pick up an out-of-print game that you missed, several years later? Good luck with that.
Want to keep playing after they inevitably shut down the verification servers? How??
Schemes like this, by their very nature, create a broken product. It's already been tried during this generation, and it failed. The codes are wrong, or the servers go down, or any number of things happen that breaks the product for the paying customer. And then the inevitable happens: People turn to piracy for a fixed and WORKING product.
I would also be retiring from current gaming, if they ever tried to pull this nonsense. I have most every console produced prior to it, so I'll have plenty of entertainment; entertainment which I can still buy for the first time 20 years later, and it works.
lol
Fair enough then. Quit if you don't like it. I suppose it is logical.
But imo, you'll miss out on some great gaming experiences. And the industry won't suffer your loss.
why do people think video games deserve some type of special treatment when it comes to the used market? As mentioned above just about everything can be bought used. I still a happy middle ground would be a 5 dollar activation fee much like the online pass. Maybe build it into the game a 2 hour preview or something before a code needs to be entered.
Last edited by 79transam on 4/25/2012 10:01:41 AM
They do get special treatment already. They're the only software industry that allowed used sales. (Mentioned in the article as well)
That 1 or 2 hours of complete access is actually a major consideration they are making. I know that for a fact. They're already testing it out with full 1 hour free trials on PSN. You can even win trophies and everything.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/25/2012 10:08:43 AM
True, but I hardly consider a game on a disc software. To me it is physical media that is no different then a bluray. I know most disagree with that but that's how I feel. I don't want devs to suffer due to the used game market but I also feel they overstate the negative effect it has on them. That's why I think a 5 dollar activation fee is reasonable alternative.
How are PC games, Microsoft Office, Windows, Norton Antivirus, Photoshop editors, etc. etc. on disks any different? :p Literally, console games are the only software product in the world where used isn't restricted.
You can't just justify it because you've decided "you don't personally consider them to be software". So, I don't consider stealing food when I'm literally starving to be wrong… doesn't make it not a crime just because I see it as necessity personally.
For the record, I don't think used should be blocked either.
I do, however, think the industry needs an overhaul, because it's the gamers and the developers that get screwed over the absolute most.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/25/2012 10:36:34 AM
they are different because they require an activation code to use and are installed on the machine. Console games are stored on a disc and only very minor data such as saves are actually kept on the machine. I agree the industry needs an overhaul I just don't know what the solution is. In a perfect world used game sales would send a chunk to devs
What about GT5's 10 GB system save? Is that "game" software while other games aren't? How much system data in addition to saves (which nearly all game loads onto our consoles) must be installed in order to magically constitute a game as "software"?
You're just playing with grey area and subjectivity still. There are no established rules.
Some PC games still require a disk. Back in the day, a lot of different software still required the disk.
The activation key isn't really any different from the online passes, etc, we have now, is it!
Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/25/2012 1:15:24 PM
"True, but I hardly consider a game on a disc software. To me it is physical media that is no different then a bluray."
You just defined software.
: something used or associated with and usually contrasted with hardware: as
a : the entire set of programs, procedures, and related documentation associated with a system and especially a computer system; specifically : computer programs
b : anything that is not hardware but is used with hardware, especially audiovisual materials, as film, tapes, records, etc.
Consoles are classified as hardware and audiovisual pieces of equipment are they not?
Games are software pure and simple, and always have been no matter what generation of gaming they came from and/or platform they are used on.
Underdog I do not play gt5 so I did not know it installs that much. I'm not trying to define what is and isn't software and we agree on this issue o believe. If it was up to me all software could be bought used. Every other market allows used sales I guess is my overall point. I don't typically buy used except for out of print games and such.
It's not the "new vs used game" itself that bothers me, it's that our freedoms of choice in just about everything we do anymore are slowing being eroded these days.
I bought Crysis 1 & Crysis 2 both brand new, and even thought I really want C3 sooner than ASAP, I'm now officially putting any future Crytek buys in my "Buy USED only" list.
He's showing his displeasure his way, I'm showing my displeasure my way!!!!!
I'd hate to think how your collection would suffer with no used games 🙂
World,
Yeah, if it weren't for used games, I'd only have about 300-400 games rather than over 2,300 games I now have(FYI:the majority of my used games are mostly the older PS2 & PS1 gen games, plus the much older retro games).
And if there weren't any used games sold, I'd have absolutely no RPGs, Sports, RTS or multi-player only games(MAG, Warhawk, Etc) included in my collections.
Anyway, I "DO" try to buy "new" whenever I can just to support the developer, for those games that I know that I'd really want to play,.
But for all the other unknown question mark games, I buy them used to see if I'll like them, & then will buy the next one in the series "new" if I liked the used one I bought & sampled.
But I've got to say that a lot of times after I bought a used game, the developers wound up making money off me in the long run, just because that If I didn't happen to find out I liked that used game, I would have never even known or bothered to buy any of their future games "new", or at all.
I rarely do a D1P, so I just wait for a decent price drop, special sales, and during "Buy 2, Get 1 Free" deals.
But there's 1 giant exception to my "buy new" rule, I will never ever buy any Anti-vision title "new" no matter how much I might want a particular title, just as long as Kotex is still at at their helm. That A-hole will never put even a penny's worth of my money into his pockets.
Biker your second paragraph in your second comment is the one that I wish people would focus on more.
Many publishers don't realize how much money and how many fans they have aquired because of the used game market. And I understand that they don't know because there is no numbers that can be put in front of their faces to show the importance of that market. I'll bet if you did a survey of say a million gamers you would find an extremely large portion that bought into a franchise day 1 because of a used game they purchased that was earlier in the franchise(hope that made sense). /end comment directed to Biker
New IPs would also take a huge blow if the used game market was shutdown. Only a select few would sell big numbers, and only because of the developers track record(example The Last Of Us), many others would absolutely struggle to probably sell even 250,000 copies just because of all the shovelware that exists. I don';t think publishers know what they are getting into requesting or advocating the stoppage of the used game market. It has turned this industry into one of the largest and used games are a BIG part of that. I am all for finding a way to get some money to the developers but not at this cost.
Unlike many I don't think that game rentals would be hurt as special discs could be printed for those companies. It wouldn't be hard to do, the only problem I could forsee is say Gameflys used game sales would obviously be hurt.
You know I just started noticing it… not just in the game industry but in every day life. Our freedom is being stripped down.
Unless you are truly in a country that restricts freedom, you need to get a grip, buddy.
We're talking about games here…
Hyperbole is the best thing ever!
"Unless you are truly in a country that restricts freedom, you need to get a grip, buddy."
How do you think countries get that bad? The idiots stand by and let the freedoms they may have once had erode under the corrosive corruption of unchecked power.
I absolutely do not agree with the idea of completely blocking used games. What a waste. I think the best compromise would be to implement a system of acquiring a license that is tied to your PSN account. Whether that's a permanent license or a cheaper, temporary license (to accommodate renting). They shouldn't care how you acquired the game media as long as you pay the $5, $10, $15 license fee to own the rights to play their game.
So instead of buying a $20 used game I'll get it for $15 and buy a $5 license to play it. When I'm done maybe I'll sell it to the next guy for $10 and he'll do the same. Publisher still gets paid, and consumers still save some cash buying used. The only ones who suffer are the GameStop's.
Blocking used games outright is the wrong approach. Everyone will suffer for it.
Outright blocking is definitely the wrong way to go about it, I agree.
Industry still needs change, though. Gamers get ripped off pretty badly too.
The only system so far that is out of this stupid banning used games is Ninty lol. Check it out were all going to ditch the PS4 and 720 for the WiiU… Unless they also get in that shady business.
the Wii U has less power then the PS3
most will just never upgrade
Source? Other than people who refuse to be named.
Funny oldmike, if someone made that claim about a Sony product some how I suspect you would be skeptical.
I agree. May help WII U sale against both consoles. I may consider wii u over those two and they can take there super duper mega hd used gameless console and shove it. And to oldmike even if WII U does at least match the 360 and ps3 graphics wise since its a HD console that will be just fine. Both the 360 and especially the ps3 games look good enough now anyhow.
Last edited by JackDillinger89 on 4/25/2012 7:01:41 PM
I think a fee/pass system for used games is a great middle ground. Game companies have the right to charge us any way they see fit, and it strikes me as perfectly reasonable to tack fees onto used copies of games. Flat out banning used games would be extreme, but I doubt that will happen.
Cue: The online passes. At least that's better than blocking.
I've never had any problem with online passes. A perfectly fair and reasonable solution, in my opinion.
I am not on board with any gaming console that is essentially dictating how a consumer spends their money. Banning gameplay of used games is not the answer. Doing that eliminates a large demographic of gamers/potential future customers.
The current format we have now, although I don't like it, is fine. If it's that serious charge for a pass similar to the Online Pass. In which used game retailers like Gamestop will pay the dev and the consumer. Banning used games restricts the purchaser from going to a potential customers house to showcase it.
It just seems that the consumer is getting punished in the end..
Last edited by slugga_status on 4/25/2012 10:59:44 AM
I wouldn't have such a problem with people complaining about losing freedoms, etc. etc. if people were a little more realistic. People blame pubs and devs for wanting MORE and MORE. But these same people are so silly to me, not because they want to keep used (I agree that used games shouldn't be blocked, guys!) but because I watch these people with entitlist attitudes demand everything, being completely unwilling to acknowledge the multi-billion dollar effect used sales has on the industry…
These -SAME- people get screwed over by gamestop or waste resources on shipping costs by selling on amazon or ebay (lose money to posting on these sites, shipping, and closing costs… ends up costing them nearly $10 domestic! not to mention the delay in getting their money) And all the while, they curse and swear that -every single developer- is sitting in some ivory towered mansion, and all they care about is getting all our money… or my personal favorite… "If they want us to buy their game new, they should make a good game!" As if it's our duty to punish them by enjoying their game used… Such a contradiction! It's looney!
Even now as we talk…. NO ONE WILL ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT I ALSO BELIEVE THERE IS A PLACE FOR USED GAMES! And rentals, too! And why does no one ever seem to acknowledge the fact I actually agree with them? Because I don't jump on the bandwagon of "poor me, I deserve everything"… because I know how to look at the bigger picture… because I'm not an idiot who doesn't see how the current used sales model is what is primarily responsible for limiting our industry (and our freedom of commerce, as it turns out!)… because I know it's just another good reason to go all digital in the future.
People only see their own personal wallet. And they constantly come up with -SUBJECTIVE- arguments to justify their actions. And as long as their current choices can be justified, then they don't have to consider any sort of change in behavior. I mean come on guys… you don't HAVE to recycle, either… but most people do. There was a time people complained about the extra cost to municipalities and taxpayers too… but as it turns out, there's a greater positive effect when we saw beyond our spreadsheets!!
Sure I'll get a bunch of downvotes… so freakin' what? Small price to pay for being right. I mean, pretty much every single person actually agrees with me, anyways! But they don't see that I agree because I don't side to the complete left or right of the argument! (Life is ALWAYS in the grey area, guys. ALWAYS.)
– I believe used game sales should stay
– I don't believe new systems should block used games
– I don't believe we shouldn't have cheaper options or be able to sell what we don't want
– I believe that -good- quality games should sell better than poor ones.
We all agree on every point, guys. I just think the current model needs a change. Because 90% of gamers are actually getting screwed. You either get a crap deal from gamestop or you lose money on a good sale from the cost of listing and/or shipping. And the biggest corporation of all (bigger than activision and EA!) is making the most money… the third party company that is the LEAST involved in our hobby. And -MOST- developers, who are not rich, could be getting more of that money going to even bigger corporations. And budgets would grow. In fact, there's proof of budgets and companies shrinking in the game industry.
And lastly, don't forget that gaming is a LUXURY. It isn't food, shelter, or clothing… It's a luxury… Entertainment. You aren't entitled to ANYTHING. So, like any -normal- individual that understands business… try and figure out the solutions that work best for all parties. And leave out the middle men that don't contribute to the industries.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/25/2012 11:06:25 AM
@Underdog
You know..the longer this situation exist the more it'll be discussed. The more it's discussed the more people will understand. For the most part you're right. The people with bad attitudes regarding this isn't looking at it with a clear mind.
It is true that used game sales are effecting the industry. But it isn't the sole reason..Piracy is a HUGE reason behind all of this. That is a fact as well. I can't say much in regards to ebay and Amazon as I've never personally used those sites.
Like you said, this is more the reason why some want to go straight digital. Yet the world we live in isn't ready for something like that.
When looking at used game purchases you have to have an open mind. There are some of us that can afford new games and those who can't. Now, the absolute bottom line is that if a game isn't in your budget new or used then don't buy it.
The only thing I disagree with you about is about game creation and pricing. While I agree with the notion that "Make a good game we will buy it new" it's a little more than that to me. I just want a dev/pub/etc. to sit back and play their game after it's been created and price it accordingly. We know not every game is going to be top notch 10s across the board but don't price at $60 and then wonder why it isn't selling. You see your game isn't in the same class as a triple A title, why not price it at $30-$40? Might just make a sell that way instead of a person knowing what a games is about and saying "Seems cool but can't justify $60 for it"
Some already do that. The Atelier series all start in the $40's. I definitely appreciate their approach, to be sure.
Personally, I would never buy a brand new game at release if it was sub-par, nor should anyone else anyways. Bad games typically drop down to the 20's and 30's quickly anyways. So the pricing is sort of a non-issue for me.
But that wasn't really the point I meant to make on that one thing. What I meant to address was the people that say, "If they want me to buy their game new, they should make a game that people will never sell!"
That was the attitude I meant to address.
I would say I 100% agree with you. I was high on pain meds when I first answered you due to a root canal haha I'm thinking a bit more clearly now
In my opinion, game publishers and devs should take their time and think hard before slapping a new game that's 60 bucks every time. That's why we got the used game market, I know gaming is important hobby for most all, so we thank the internet shopping for good deals.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 4/25/2012 12:19:31 PM
@Underdog15
And if you can't buy used or rent how do you know it's sub par? Don't tell me by reveiws cause I wont buy that. I remember reveiws for games I really like that got raked over the coals so I rented and then purchased.
You rent. Or you buy used.
lol.
You're exactly the type of person I was talking about that would argue with me despite the fact that I agree with you… *THIS* is exactly what my giant post was about!! lol
And I outlined in full detail how I agree that used and rentals NEED to stay for everyone. The system just needs to change.
If you can't have everything, you aren't willing to listen… this is exactly the response I predicted would happen. People completely ignore 95% of what you say (even though you completely agree with them) because they dislike the 1-5% part that asks people to be reasonable.
On a side note: I bought my first Atelier game because i looked up gameplay vids on youtube and liked what I saw. And I got the first Uncharted back in the day before it was huge because I downloaded the free demo and loved it. There are lots of ways to research. But that's beside the point.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 4/25/2012 3:07:01 PM
If the new consoles block used games and also required you to be connected to the net fulltime, that will start the downfall to console gaming.
Next thing you know they'll start charging for games bought new well after the release date at a lower price.
I see this happening…online passes are great but since you didn't pay full price, the dev's aren't getting their full cut. This doesn't bother me as I buy my games new anyway…and even if I didn't buy Day 1, I'll wait for a price drop and still buy it new later on. For those stating they would drop gaming altogether…all I can say is lies! You may resist for a while but completely stop is just down right crazy. I dont play everyday but I play and will never stop.
I understand he has to look at things from a business perspective, but people who normally buy used aren't going to line up to drop full price.
You can't capitalize on used games by eliminating them. They got that original sale and that's all they were ever going to get for all intents and purposes.
on the front page it says "hes not the first to day it"
How many games has Crytek made for consoles besides Crysis 2?
Crysis 1 got ported! Yayyy
Underdog
sorry I misunderstood
No worries.
I later just assumed you were only replying to the smaller post that was a reply.
I would readily agree to this – if all companies allowed demos to play before purchase – otherwise – no f*****g way – i dont want to get stuck with a $60 s**t game.
You have mentioned yet another alternative.