Ben-DutkaWhen you create a Call of Duty update on a PlayStation-oriented website, you have to assume there's going to be some rampant hate flying around. It's inevitable.
So after Activision Social Media Manager Dan Amrich posted about the MW3 Content Collection 1 on the PlayStation Blog , he had to deal with quite a few harsh outpourings from those who just don't like the blockbuster franchise.
Interestingly enough, Amrich was keen on replying to the hate. To the simple "Call of Duty sucks," he replied, "Play whatever makes you happy." For someone who said the collection is "a little pricey for a few maps," Amrich responded with- "Six maps for $15 equals $2.50 a map. Ultimately that’s up to you as to whether it’s worth it, of course, but I’ve seen other games charge $3 or more per map." To the more direct, "…a crappy add-on for a crappy $60 add-on…CALL OF DUTY BLOWS!!!!!", he bravely said-"
"So…play something you like more. You could be championing a game you like more instead of slagging this one and the people who have fun with it. Why waste your time complaining about a game you don’t enjoy, you know?"
Awfully diplomatic, yes? But the comment that got the biggest rise out of Amrich was the one that advised him to "do like FOURZEROTWO" (reference to Infinity Ward boss Robert Bowling's recent departure) "and look for a new company to work for. 'GREEDVISION' is really getting bad." Here's Amrich's rebuttal:
"This is an interesting take, because every single game publisher in the entire industry is a business and looking to make a profit. What’s more, CoD is very popular and a lot of fans look forward to new maps and DLC releases. So…well, I just don’t buy into the “greed” thing when it’s really just giving people what they want, and charging money for products and services — which is what every business does, from car companies to grocery stores to restaurants and movie theaters.
Charging money for something does not make anybody greedy. But you always have the absolute power to choose how you spend your money, no matter what. So support whatever things you feel are worth the money and are likely to make you the happiest. That’s all — and that’s normal!"
While we're not about to say their DLC is among the best deals out there, we do have to admit, sometimes gamers are in need of a bite from a reality sandwich. Yes, you do have to charge money in business. Yes, consumers have to spend money. With all the recent hysteria, it really seems as if nobody wants to pay anything . Of course, as far as the CoD hate goes…well, we're not about to build on that. It has a life of its own.
By the way, Amrich responded to people saying that if one military game is great, the other has to suck:
"I never really understood the attitude that if you like Military Game A, then Military Game B must suck and then be wiped off the face of the earth. A and B might both be of interest, you know?
Like, thank goodness nobody says 'no more sci-fi movies, they already made one.' Different approaches work for different people."
Fire Kotick and promote this guy to CEO.
He feels like i do with the Comments posted on every COD thread here ! Go play somthing you like and comment on stuff you like instead of wasting your time with hateful comments. lol he's the man !
mmmh reality sandwich is good =p
I bought both of the NG3 DLC's. But I'm a bit bummed out because there appears to be no one online anymore with the game. Woe is me =/
" reality sandwich is good "
I prefer mine with mustard and no lettuce….. I hate lettuce.
Last edited by wackazoa on 4/20/2012 11:36:55 AM
Sorry to hear that Temjin, now that it's clear very few people like NG3 it has qualified for The Cult Gamer. Maybe I'll pick it up one day 🙂
I love the way he responded. I don't play because Im not into military shooters anyway I've never understood the COD hate.
Whiners
Their all the same,i'm sure somewhere on the net theres a tread where plumbers are nerd raging over which pipe is better to fix your sink in the kitchen with.
PEX for flow and ABS for blow, fool!!!!
That's totally off-base. Everyone knows the appropriate application in modern plumbing is PVC in the kitchen and bathroom, with galvanized piping leading the main in, and the waste out.
🙂
Yeah but galvanized clogs to easy… and is a pain in the ass to repair.
PEX with Sharkbite. The lazy man's ally.
-MY- ally.
Gotta admit.
I like how he didn't tear anyone down. Was very civil, direct, and to the point.
This guy is a champ, even if Activision is a little suspect. Not often Activision scores points in my book, but today they got one.
Brilliant. I'm glad he responded to some of the whining instead of ignoring the comments like some developers/publishers do on the PS Blog.
I'm not the biggest CoD fan, but I see the appeal it has on the "competitive" gamer types that love online gaming. Activision is and was very successful at putting out products that people enjoy and buy annually. They also find new ways to generate revenue with services like CoD Elite that a select few of hardcore types are willing to pay for. Thats called running a good business, not "being greedy".
I thought the same thing about the response. Beachhead has been terrible about responding re: elite. Even if I hate the answer, I would 100% favor a response over nothing. Even if the response isn't what I want to hear.
If you at least make the gamer feel as if he has a voice and is heard then said gamer will support your company till the end.
Last edited by wackazoa on 4/20/2012 11:40:13 AM
Millions of people enjoy Call of Duty, the reason I think it gets hate is because people expect a big jump in quality every year, as they should IMO. Instead their games progress very little or even take a step backwards ( Mw3 compared to Black ops ). This is just my opinion of course.
For me, the quality issue isn't so much the problem as it is the support. It just feels like there's no follow through on their end once they get your money.
Compare that to Uncharted 3, for example, and you see there are improvements made all the time at no cost.
COD is the New York Yankees of games.
My only question about the map packs is why so much? People are dropping almost 70 bucks annually on these games and they hardly support them post release. Even patches for CoD are few and far between.
My other big question is why can Valve, charge 20 bucks for Counter-Strike and they added free maps to it for years after it was released. Not only that they let fans make there own maps and would make them official if they were high enough quality. TF2 before going F2P was also insanely updated with huge content updates patches and maps added, all for free.
I think most of the people who think activision is greedy look at Valve and CDprojekt and all the stuff they give you post release for free and then wonder why activision says they have to charge for it.
This guy was very civil though. Its true if you don't like something just don't play it 🙂
Why so much? Because people are willing to pay for it. And if they give enough content with these packs, they can justify the cost (see: his response to the $2.50/map). Activision as a business knows what they're doing. Personally, I don't think DLC is worth that much.
Comparing Activision business model to Valve's Steam service is like apples to oranges
"Why so much? Because people are willing to pay for it."
Bingo. It's called capitalism. We live in it.
Yeah. They'll charge as much as they can for max profit. You have something brand new, the cheaper it is, the more people will buy, but to a limit. The more expensive, the fewer people will buy. So, what price point gives you the most return in the middle?
For example, you make more money selling it for $2.50 to 1 million people than you would selling it for $1.00 to 2 million people. The price isn't even about trying to get it to as many people as possible, ya know? All about the most money made.
Yea, they can charge whatever they like. Activision overcharges but I have to given them credit for being honest about it. They make it clear and allow you to make the choice. Which is how it should be. No one forces people to buy these overpriced maps. Unlike Crapcom who just hides crap from the consumer on the disc they already bought then pretends it's new content.
Xenris I am with you on that one, they could easily give a DLC away for free from time to time, or even show the masses that have supported them by buying all of their games with free map packs but they don't(as far as I am aware). He was civil I'll give him that, but nothing more.
And Jimmy then lets use Epics Unreal III for the PS3. When they released it, it didn't sell to well and luckily they also made a boat load of cash off of Gears of War. So rather then charging for the Titan Pack which is still one of the largest DLCs to date they gave it away for free. It contained access to all the MODS, new game modes, and new skins/avatars for your character.
And the $2.50 a map is essentially BS as normally 2 of the maps are from previous games, so it should be more like $4 or $5 a map instead of the $2.50. I wouldn't mind the $2.50 comment from him if they were on a new engine and had to completely redo the maps, but that is not the case.
I am sorry but there is a difference bewteen being a capitalitst and being a capitalist pig, and Activision is from the latter. If small no name companies can release cheap or free DLC, maintain their games post release, and give back to their fans from time to time, then so can this cash cow.
If anyone can't tell, yeah I hate Activision and I don't care.
"I am sorry but there is a difference bewteen being a capitalitst and being a capitalist pig"
The only difference is moral opinion, though.
"I am sorry but there is a difference bewteen being a capitalitst and being a capitalist pig"
Oh nonsense. If you think Activision is greedy don't buy their products or content. The choice is yours. No one owes you anything except honesty and Activsion is honest in their delivery of their content no matter how overpriced it may be.
Jawknee I don't need to be told the obvious and go ahead and look up my PSN name I don't have a single one of the games and I never will. Your right that I have a choice and I have chose to ignore there awful business practices. The only reason I know anything about the games is I have one friend and a cousin who plays them, otherwise I wouldn't know anything about those games.
Unfortunately Underdog your absolutely right.
He's right, this is capitalism, fools and their money are soon parted.
@rogue, Okay so why spend time hating Activation? It's wasted energy. I know because I've done it. But I have come to learn that it's not worth it. Just like this executive said. Play what makes you happy, and stop whining about how greedy they are. At least their honest with the consumer.
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/20/2012 2:01:34 PM
"And Jimmy then lets use Epics Unreal III for the PS3. When they released it, it didn't sell to well and luckily they also made a boat load of cash off of Gears of War. So rather then charging for the Titan Pack which is still one of the largest DLCs to date they gave it away for free. It contained access to all the MODS, new game modes, and new skins/avatars for your character."
Well you said it right there. It didn't sell well. It comes down to what I said earlier, a company will charge what people are willing to pay. If the game didn't sell well, their DLC probably wouldn't either. Call of Duty sells extremely well, and I'm sure Activision prices their DLC at prices that people will pay for it.
To Jawknee, If no one decides to hate on them then that could become the norm. And I absolutely will not stand for it, don't get me wrong I normally stear clear of articles involving Activision but from time to time I have to say something. To me your never wasting energy/time when you stand up for something you believe in, whether your right or wrong.
And Jimmy sorry that doesn't fit the model of capitalism, you don't give things away for free just because sales were low, usually its the opposite. And the sales were only low in comparison to previous Unreals and God of War, many companies would have killed to get those sales.
Then maybe you should stop wasting time playing video games and form a picket line outside Activation's HQ with the rest of your self entitled buddies to "make a statement". Afterall, if you hate them so and believe it's a worthy cause to spend important energy on, turn into action instead of incessant whining.
I have no idea what the sales were for Unreal, I'm just going by what you're saying. But my point is that if people aren't willing to pay for it, then why do you think they didn't charge for DLC? It doesn't make sense for them to charge $10 for DLC for a game that no one bought. Its a nice gesture to give it out for free, but that should have nothing to do with Activision being "greedy" for charging for their DLC. Call of Duty sells 10 million+ units every year, why would they just give away DLC? Does that sound like a good profitable business?
You should listen to Jawknee and learn to accept that they're not being "evil"…at the end of the day, Activision is a business trying to make money and put products out that their customers want. If you don't want their product, don't be their customer. They do have plenty of people that are willing to buy their $15 DLC which is why they charge that much.
Last edited by jimmyhandsome on 4/20/2012 2:45:24 PM
To Jimmy from a quick look around the net I kept seein 1.2 to 1.3 million copies, however I couldn't tell if those were for just the PS3 or for all 3 platforms combined. And I don't recall anyone saying they wouldn't pay for it, I would have bought it for as high as $20 with the amount of content it brought to the table. I figured they would have at least charge something for it and then if sales of the DLC were bad release it for free through a patch.
And sorry I put God of War I meant Gears of War for anyone that feels the need to correct me.
And both of use have put words in my mouth. I never not once used the term "evil" I don't consider a capitalist pig "evil" necessarily. Voicing my opinion on the internet is a form of protest. You don't need to physically sit outside the companies doors anymore to make yourself heard.And I am sorry Jawknee if you think I have an entitled mentality because I think a companiy should show some fan appreciation from time to time. I said give away a DLC from time to time not give them all away, even though I'll give you that the second part of my statement could be interpreted that way as I forgot to put the "from time to time" in with it, sorry if that is what you are referring to. Sorry but thinking a company should show/give loyal fans some incentive for being loyal is not entitled, especially when said company is raking in over a billion dollars a year from just that one product.
I didn't nearly expect this much back and forth wow! Very interesting points by everyone.
I know we live in a capitalist world, more what I meant was I don't understand why they do it. Sure they can make more money and profit but as a whole wouldn't it be nice to be known as a company that is there for the fans instead of being known for selling practically the same game annually and charging more than the competition for their map packs, which I might add usually have maps from old games in them anyway. Also he is false call of duty map packs are the most expensive maps I have seen.
Imagine how much loyalty and respect they would get if they released the top maps from the previous modern warfare games for free? It would show that they cared about the consumer.
I don't think its acting entitled, as we're not really demanding. We are just kind of asking questions about why smaller companies reward their fans while the big guys essentially just want you there as their piggy bank.
I agree with rogue, it would be nice if they gave stuff away for free from time to time. The problem is they have a super capitalist mentality and if there is even a possibility of them making any money they go that route instead. Doesn't make them evil, it would just be nice.
I run my own business, and I give people free consultations for fitness training, free sessions if they stick with me for a while. Heck sometimes I even go grocery shopping with my clients and help them make healthy choices. I know I could be making money off of those things but one it feels great to help people out, and it builds loyalty and my reputation spreads by word of mouth.
"Voicing my opinion on the internet is a form of protest."
LOL! Where's the petition? Or is your "Internet protest" limited to complaining on video game blogs?
Btw, I never said you said they were "evil". I'm just trying to understand how complaining about it on a blog is supposed to make them lower their prices. Capitalism is pretty simple. A business provides a product, sets a price, and if you find value in it then everyone wins. But if you don't, then save your money and move along. They haven't lied, or tried to withhold stuff you already paid for like other companies. At least not to my knowledge. As jimmy said, they know there ARE people who will happily pay the price they ask so there is no need for your business if you're not willing to pay it. It's called demand. There is a demand for it so they can charge what they want. You're not being ripped off because you aren't willing to pay their price. They will lower their prices when the demand decreases. Besides, you said yourself you don't buy their games. What loyalty do they owe you? That's why this sounds like a case of entitlement.
@Xenris
"I run my own business, and I give people free consultations for fitness training, free sessions if they stick with me for a while. Heck sometimes I even go grocery shopping with my clients and help them make healthy choices. I know I could be making money off of those things but one it feels great to help people out, and it builds loyalty and my reputation spreads by word of mouth."
If that works for you that's awesome. I too run my own business with my wife and we too give out free perks. But Activision doesn't feel the need to and they don't have to just because we do. Besides it sounds like you do a lot of what you do to help people. Activsion wants to make a profit. Which they are perfectly free to do.
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/20/2012 5:06:34 PM
$15 for 6 maps while other devs charge $5 or give them away for free. Haha
Also, aren't 2 of those 6 maps usually rehashed from previous games?
Is this a joke?
hehe. No, it just makes them a little evil kind of like EA but not quite as bad. I am joking…kind of. Wasn't EA recently voted as the most evil corporation in NA? I'm certain something like that happened.
This "corporations are evil" argument is getting old. They're a business who's job it is to make money so they can pay their employees and provide a well being for their families. Unless EA is dumping sewage onto our oceans or killing people, I fail to see how they're "evil".
With that said, Jawk, Shell and Coka-Cola is evil. :p Activision? They just found a gold mine in CoD.
hehe. Coca Cola is evil,..look what they did to that poor Pepsi can. Anyways, Jawk's response reminds me of EA's reply when voted "most evil". I said I was joking(kind of). I did check and it is true EA was voted the most evil company. Backlash from online passes and Mass Effect 3's ending? Perceived threat to used game sales? Without getting into politics I will just say corporations are like anything else controlled by human beings. Some are good, and some can be bad…most somewhere between.
I do believe in a free market system. I do not have to pay for $15 map packs and I don't. If a company sets that price and some consumers pay for it that's fine by me. Companies do have to be profitable or they cease to exist. There is nothing wrong with a company wanting to make a profit. That alone does not make them evil. I will also add that one thing I do dislike about paid for maps is that it segments the online community into two groups.
Back to a free market system… That's one of the reasons I hate to hear whining about used game sales. It has come from the biggest and most profitable of software companies like EA and Ubisoft during the most successful gen of gaming in terms of sales. Isn't a second market just a natural extension of a free market system? I'm pretty sure it is but that's just my humble opinion. I'm also pretty sure some of EA's tactics this gen has helped grant them their recent award. Whether it is fair or not they can sometimes come accross as greedy which helps grant them the most evil title. Too harsh to label them evil? Probably. Who knows where it's coming from…Maybe there is some backlash against EA for all there smack talking during BF3. I know that turned off some including myself.
I sometimes forget that before Mr. Kotick helped put Activision on top in terms of most disliked software company that EA used to hold this title. Looks like EA has reclaimed their top spot again. It's not quite the top spot they wanted. I'm pretty sure they want the top spot in terms of sales instead.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 4/20/2012 2:28:54 PM
Excelsior- I read about how EA won that "award", too. But I'm pretty sure that the outcry and whining from gamers (see: Mass Effect 3 debacle) is A LOT louder than for other corporations in different industries.
Maybe if they got rid of Kotex, since he was the one that once said that he hated video games & didn't play them, & would also charge $100 for them if he could.
Yo Dicky boy, don't you ever forget that gamers have good memory's as to what you've said, and the disdain you've shown toward us in the past.
Well sad but true, he is right. Every game publisher wants money and cod is damn popular.If u don't want it don't buy it,but there are a ton load of gamers that play cod only. They don't care about quality, story or dedication poured by some fine game companies in their games, they just want to shoot someone in multiplayer.This is the target demographic of activision and they sure know how to milk them.They don't give a sh*t about u or me, the gamers that wants something special in their games.So i don't care about them either, the last cod i bought was cod waw, no mw2 or mw3 for me.
The last COD I bought was W@W too, didn't want to be in this hyped up COD craze anymore. I know this gen is more on the multiplayer side, especially when it comes to specific people like most kids.
the only comment that he made that i really didnt care for was when one guy said "cod needs an updated engine" and the guy basically said y should we do that when we already know the next game will sell regardless. thats true! but i would think that the company would want to make advancements rather than just milk a 6 yr old engine to death. bf3's frostbite engine proves that a shooter can look far greater than what activision is throwing our way!
Frostbite provides much better sound too. All the guns in CoD sound the same. Like toys.
INDEED SIR!
I agree, but there's one thing about your argument, Jawk, that -SHOULD- make me roll my eyes at cod, but doesn't…
It's the fact that I like playing with toys! 😀