Ben-DutkaYou know, I think it's long past time this happened.
I'm not the only person out there who would've had a Platinum Trophy if it weren't for the required online Trophies. This includes last year's Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood ; I had all the campaign Trophies but because I had no desire to play it online, I was deprived of the "completionist" Trophy, regardless of how many hours I put into getting everything.
And I'm willing to bet that the door swings both ways. How many Modern Warfare 3 fans will easily nab all the multiplayer Trophies but as they have zero interest in the campaign, they'll never get all the single-player Trophies? As far as I'm concerned, campaign and multiplayer are two entirely different experiences and each should have a Platinum Trophy. Either that, or have two differently colored Trophies, each of which proving your mastery of the offline and online modes.
I really don't believe that one has to go online in order to nab that coveted Platinum. Isn't it hard enough already? Many campaigns require a huge amount of time and dedication if the player wants to earn all the single-player Trophies; why aren't we rewarded for that? And on the flip side, why aren't the multiplayer fans rewarded for similar dedication? It's time, Sony. Give us the appropriate reward for mastery of each.
I also think it's time for this to be implemented. I'm not gonna lie, I've been a little bit of a trophy whore in the past but I consider myself mostly a single player guy, and some of these online multiplayer trophies require too much time for me to sink into. Keep in mind I think it's important to play games for the experience first, then get trophy whore after, but that's for another discussion.
I couldn't be bothered to get the Bioshock 2, Homefront, or Bad Company 2 plats because they required many hours of online play, of which I have no real interest. Just as some people play games for multiplayer, they'll be denied the single player trophies.
I respectfully disagree Ben. In my opinion, a platinum trophy demonstrates that you completely mastered a game. Every challenge it threw at you, you completed. This is coming from someone nearing 2000 trophies with around 10 platinums. I admit I trophy whore the hell out of games, and when there's just 1 or 2 trophies stopping me, especially when they're from a portion of a game I dislike, it does bother me.
I do think however that some online trophies are just plain ridiculous. Even if you play online a lot, some are just too hard. You mentioned AC: Brotherhood, and while I did platinum it, the one trophy that was stopping me for nearly a month was to get all co-op bonuses in one match. None of my friends had the game, and barely anyone on there tried to help you get any of them because they only cared about getting their own kills. Not to mention I heard Killzone 2 had a play 2000 matches or something similar.
There are those of us who don't think online has anything whatsoever to do with the campaign. And what about people who aren't always on a super fast connection, like those in many regions outside the US?
I guess I could agree there. But maybe they should simply make the online trophies not required for a platinum if campaign is their focus, or vice versa. Or perhaps have non required trophies in general. Games just shouldn't have 2 platinums in my opinion.
Well, they could be distinguished in some way; they don't have to both be Platinums, as I said in the article.
That would be fine with me.
The multiplayer is just as important as the sigle player nowadays. Hard to swallow, but it's true. And hes right, a platinum should mean that you completely mastered the game. There are games like MAG that are online only and L.A Noire that is SP only. Then there are those that is a mixture of both SP and MP, and it doesnt matter what game you play, a platinum means you mastered the game. Plus, if you were to implement two plats in one game, everything would have to be balanced trophy wise. Most games trophies are 80% SP and 20% MP (just a rough estimate). So the implementation of two plats would require 50-50 SP trophies and MP trophies. Perhaps in most cases it would take a lot longer to obtain a both plats.
And i qpologise in advanced for any spelling errors or any errors at all since im using my iTouch and its diffucult to type. Atleast to me it is.
Jman, I would plat some games like inFamous 2 but im tired of looking for thing in games, I despite it. Having to look for all those blast shards is just a waste of time, boring and just a way for developers to add a couple extra hours for you to play in a game. So thats a plat I most likely wont get because of that. And how about ICO? Beat the game in under two hours… You would litterly have to play the game x amount of times so you know all the puzzles in the back of your head for you to be able to achieve such achievement!! another plat i might not get:/
And again, i apologize in advanced for any spelling errors.
Here is just a counter point to jman and Killa.
Is multiplayer really what the "game" is throwing at you, or is it what the uncontrollable variable of the masses throwing at you?
I ask this in all seriousness and here is the weight to my argument: "Online interactions are not rated and not controlled by the development team" (or something along those lines).
With those disclaimers at the beginning of all games with multiplayer components it is quite clear that the developers acknowledge that the online aspects of gameplay are wholly outside of their control or design in the end.
In the end, I agree with Ben that they should be separate on that alone.
Actually, re-reading jman's second post, I like the idea of having non-required trophies for the platinum, kind of like when DLC arrives and you don't need those trophies to plat the game.
Last edited by coverton341 on 10/18/2011 10:49:31 PM
Online interactions not rated by ESRB simply means the developer cant controll what happens when you interact with other people. The developer can give a ratimg to their single player expirience but not human interaction online.
I guess the annoying part there is that they're making multiplayer almost mandatory when it really should not. So I see the point of have two platinum trophies, one for the campaign and another for online. Or if they're really not big fans of giving out a lot of platinums, the online trophies should not be mandatory. Just my two cents worth.
I've tended to agree with the two plat idea up until I read this post by Jman, how a plat should be for "completely mastering a game". When you put it like that it sounds just right.
It's all up to the developers what trophies they put in there. I guess we should more criticize the devs for cramming a lot of online trophies into a typical single player game and vice versa?
Online trophies shudn't count towards the Plat.
I disagree with the plat=mastering theory.
As it was brought up that there are sp trophies that are completely frivolous, the same exists for mp.
Take a game like Medal of Honor, that has trophies for spending x amount of time in specific game modes. How does spending :15 min in mp equate to mastering a game? You could pause the game for the required time and nab those trophies. Hardly mastering imo.
What about online games like AC:B that have stupid trophies like reaching level 50? It doesn't take any skill to reach level 50. At all. Just time. Loads of time. Trophies based on the amount of time you invest in a game is stupid. They should be REAL accomplishments.
I think if they had one platinum where you could get all single player or multiplayer trophies
would be perfect. That way no matter how you play
a game you can still get a platinum.
It seems that those who want 2 platinum trophies, or something to differentiate the SP and MP are, are those who don't like MP to begin with.
I look at it like this. Most people who want the platinum trophy really love the game. So if you love the game that much it won't kill you to go online to pick up a couple of trophies. I haven't seen many games that have a vast amount of MP trophies to achieve just for platinum.
It's fine how it is now..I mean the argument can go both ways to be honest. There's likely a vast amount of MP only gamers who want more MP trophies and less SP trophies..I know..sounds crazy right? but they're out there
It is a challenge that's for sure but if a game is that hard for me to plat., I'd just move on and someday I go back and try my luck again (depending on the game that I enjoyed playing alot). Sometimes I think I wish games didn't have trophies to begin with. It is a pain and time consuming process, I just think nowadays it's getting a little out of hand with both mp and sp trophies. So in this case it's a hard toss up.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 10/19/2011 1:51:49 PM
There are also the things that just require TOO much time to be spent online.
For example, Killzone 2 had a trophy that required you to be in the top 1% of the ladder by the end of the week.
I spent the ENTIRE first week playing the game online and was well into that 1%, only to have my download limit reached and my net slowed down, making me unable to play it for the last 2 days of the ladder. This pushed me out to the top 3%, so I didn't get the trophy. And since then, the number of players has dwindled to barely anything, and I do not have anywhere near as much free time as I did back then (I played online for nearly 30 hours that week), which means it will be nearly impossible for me to achieve.
Yes, I agree with the 2 separate Plat trophies.
But I'd also add in that if they really need to keep the game with only 1 top level trophy, then just add a "Titanium" trophy into the mix, and that one alone would be only for the gamers who have platted both of those SP, & MP modes "Plat's".
Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/18/2011 10:12:09 PM
Diamond would be better. Titanium isn't worth as much as the others.
no adamantium would be best.
Obviously a Kevin Butler bobblehead would be the best.
But then we'd be back to square one.
Trophy whores like myself would feel like it is not complete till I have ALL trophies. The platinum trophy would suddenly feel like a Gold.
thats a good idea by saints biker…. i myself hated the multiplayer on ACB…
Great idea Ben.
Maybe they could have a system where some of the campain trophies were required, some of the multiplayer trophies were required and the rest you could choose to either do a multiplayer trophy or a single player trophy. So there would be two paths to plat a game. One with a emphasis on multiplayer, the other single player.
But then you could get a plat without a 100% and that brings up something else I don't really like. When you have a plat and 100% on a game, and then they release DLC and you have a plat and only like 60%. i think you should still have the 100% and if DLC adds 20% more trophies then you should get 120% for completing them all. If they add trophies after the fact it should be more than 100%, not deminish trophies i already earned
Maybe they could lock out the other trophy so you would still get a 100% the same as the plat. I don't know, just running with ideas.
Last edited by mk ultra on 10/19/2011 2:06:23 AM
I second the "120%" suggestion.
As for the article, I'm not in favor of a double-platinum system. I agree that the platinum should reflect "mastery" of all aspects of the game, but I do believe that the online trophies should be easily obtained (i.e., for trying each mode) like those in Uncharted 2 or Burnout. Online games usually have a separate system for bragging rights, distinct from trophies, so I don't see the need for trophies which reflect outstanding achievements.
In fact, I believe that NONE of the trophies should be ridiculously hard to obtain. It's a system to reward players for playing the game, especially those parts they might otherwise ignore. If the developers want to set up absurd challenges, they can have a supplementary system like the "pins" in LBP2.
Last edited by Fane1024 on 10/19/2011 3:52:49 AM
i totally agree with you ben. I'm a hardcore trophy hunter (94 plats 6779 trophys) and i hate online trophys completely. R2 was a nightmare and took me 2yrs to finally get it done, and more recently dead island was a pain purely because the online is unreliable and still needs fixing.
I also hated it in brotherhood as i didn't really care about the mp, the worse thing is some of the trophys were ridiculous as they didn't allow you to track them in game properly.
Personally i don't mind the online trophys if it's an online only game ie MAG,DCUO,FreeRealms but i do wish they would put more thought into the process. The guys at ubisoft for example will know how many people have played there game and completed the campaign and how many have jumped into the online portion so why not seperate them?. Most online trophys are like bronze anyway so minimal reward for maximum effort. I think with the trophy system having been in place for quite awhile now and developers used to applying them into games maybe its time to give the system abit of a review.
Ben i thought the same when i cudn't get Plat. on Resistance 2 and then again on AC: Brotherhood, as i'm not that much into MP.
If not two plat. for a title then atleast Plat. shud not include MP trophies like reach certain level which forces you to play MP to get Plat.
I think this would be fair, I despise online trophies, I have noticed they're all the same, get 10'000 kills or reach the top rank, very, VERY time consuming tasks. This is the reason I gave up platinuming GTA IV and Red Dead.
..and also pretty much KZ2 to for me.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 10/19/2011 1:41:02 PM
Gotta disagree here..Online trophies shouldn't stop you from getting the platinum trophy. The majority of the games that have MP trophies aren't extremely hard to get to be honest. Now, one game that was just ridiculous with the MP trophies was Killzone 2. You had to get like #1 on the weekly rankings and crap like that..
After Killzone 2 though there's not many games that have MP trophies that are very hard to get. Take Black Ops for example. That game only had 5 online trophies. Take Resistance 3, that game has no online trophies.
I sounds like it really just boils down to people who like to play MP and those who don't. If you don't like MP then you're going to have a complaint about having to get a few online trophies. If you do then you view as another challenge and have the sense of "mastery" of the game. There's just not too many games out there that have a high amount of online trophies to warrant any type of change.
Last edited by slugga_status on 10/19/2011 7:28:04 AM
I totally agree with jman. Games usually focus more on either SP or MP and the majority of the trophy set should be pointed towards that game mode.
Trophies that encourage rigging of online matches are simply insane, like the AC brotherhood one with all the co-op bonuses. There are games that I think balance the trophy set well, like Uncharted 2 and Killzone 3.
I am the worst online player ever so maybe never get a Platinum and to get it not only u need to get connected but for some games u have to buy DLC what i considered wrong. I have a couple of 100% completion but no Platinum available maybe because the developers considered it an easy game to include.One of those game i play it for 2 hours without losing a challenge to get a trophy what i think deserved a Platinum.
Actually you don't have to buy DLC to get a platinum trophy. DLC packs add additional trophies but they're not needed to get platinum. There only needed for the die-hard trophy hunters who want to see 100% next to the game title.
I think two platinum trophies is out of the question. Just tie the platinum trophy to single-player and any trophies acquired online tied with extras (like DLC).
That way you can platinum games grabbing every trophy in single-player and then work for extra trophies in multiplayer if you wish to (I'd have sooooooo many more games platinumed if there were the case).
Last edited by DrRockso87 on 10/19/2011 8:58:03 AM
I'm in the same boat Ben. I got the platinum in AC2, but I'll never get it in Brotherhood because of the online trophies.
I just don't do the online gaming thing… does that make me less of a gamer?
I think you could do that. I actually dig that idea. I play both modes a lot on all my games. It would be nice if online had more trophies, and if they were separate, it would mean more single player trophies and more multiplayer trophies for each respective mode.
Nice idea, Ben. Would be cool if they implemented it.
That's is not possible, developers get a dedicated amount of trophy points per game from Sony and Mickysoft… That's why some games have an own set of achievements next to the trophies.
That had crossed my mind many times, have all Crysis 2 trophy , except the online. Same goes for the Uncharted 2 MP trophy … don't want them don't care. In some way that is unfortunate, but that's the way it goes.
That doesn't make much sense. Uncharted 2 only had 2 trophies that you had to get in order to obtain the platinum trophy. They aren't even hard to get..all you had to do is complete 1 competitive MP game and 1 co-op MP game…All the other MP trophies are dlc and not needed to get platinum
I couldn't agree more with this philosephy. Sony did the right thing adding trophies to games. At the onset of its implementation there was very little to no online trophies to be found. One game that i would not have platinumed if i was required to grind endelessley online would have been uncharted 2.
Games that are defined at there core as being singleplayer should at least divide the two experiences in regards to trophies. I wouldn't go as far as saying there should be a platinum for the online portions of these games. But a clear seperation where the singleplayer trophies go towards the platinum and the multiplayer trophies exist just as an addition.
Just put another metal trophy that is related with online multiplayer. With time people and gamers will relate it with online and all will be the same as it is now that everyone knows the trophy system.
Is anyone here put off buying new games due to DLC? I have to say it has happened to me a few times. I am not buying Fallout: New Vegas until they release a GotY (Like F*** that would be GotY anyway…) edition with all the DLC one one disc, until then, they won't get a penny from me.
It's the same with Deus Ex, it looks an alright game, and is going for dirty cheap already, but today they just released some DLC ironically called 'The Missing Link'… No I fear there is going to be more, so I am no encouraged to buy the original game incase later there is a package with it all in. It's rare that I feel comfortable buying a game on release do to this and it just plain sux.
It doesn't really put me off..b/c I don't have much patience to wait for a game that I really want.
What pisses me off is when I buy all the DLC for a game. Then they either package it all into a GoTY edition or bundle them into one big DLC pack for a cheaper rate. I can't stand that crap and really makes you feel like you were taken advantage of as a consumer or you wasted your money
Ultima: Your not the only one. It's why I haven't played Deus Ex either and also why I waited so long for the all inclusive version of DA:O. Some games i have to get day one but for the others i wait for a better version which usually includes all the DLC. I knowing did this one time when i was certain they would release SSFIV within a year of the original, but i just couldn't pass on the collectors edition.
It would be nice if more developers cut you some deals if you agreed to buy all the DLC at the beginning like ND and IW.
What about this for a thought? Keep the plat as having "all" the trophies for a game, but add in another tier (call it whatever) – where you have "mastered all the SP trophies" and "mastered all the MP trophies".
It's not practical now, as games like CoD and SOCOM, that have very few MP trophies, but going forward could be a goer?
Like i said in another comment, we would be back to square one.
Most of the time people try to get the completionist "Platinum Trophy" because they are trophy whores, if we introduce another tier, it would just mean that Platinum trophies lose their meaning, they would be another level, just like Gold.
i should have at least 4 more platinums, but i can't get them. i refuse to play online to get them because they are almost impossible. example.. level all four classes to the max in Transformers: war for cybertron. not gonna happen!
Good idea Ben, but I would prefer if they got rid of multiplayer trophies all together. Hell, Modern Warfare 2, a game that a high percentage of people bought for only multiplayer, didn't even have any multiplayer trophies!
But since that's never gonna happen, I support this idea.