Ben-DutkaHey, we didn't say it. A lot of you have said it before, though, and maybe you've been waiting for a non-PlayStation-affiliated developer to admit it.
During an interview with Xbox Community Network , People Can Fly Creative Director for Bulletstorm Adrian Chmielarz spoke about the limitations of the aging Xbox 360 hardware. In truth, it does indeed affect what they can and can't do, although he says one can still manage to produce quality with that hardware. It's just a matter of ambition. When asked if the 360 was stopping them from doing what they'd like, the director's response was as follows:
"Yes, but any developer in the world will ALWAYS say that, no matter what. We could have 128 GB of RAM and it still won't be enough. Seriously, though, it feels pretty good making games on Xbox 360. As you can see with the exclusive titles like Halo and Gears or multiplatform titles like Bulletstorm, the quality is high enough not to feel any pressure for the next generation. People like the current gen, and I think we still have a lot of room for exploration."
The 360 has been blamed by PlayStation 3 fans for holding developers back and making multiplatform titles…well, less than they could've been. Numerous examples seem to back up that claim, but it's rare to see a developer say anything but, "the game will be identical on both platforms." Maybe it is time to admit it. PS3 exclusives sort of drive the point home.
Related Game(s): Bulletstorm
About time. I hope this is posted on every 360 fanboy site. They probably still wouldn't believe it.
I see someone thumbed you down (twice) for stating the obvious..
Well the story did come from the Xbox's central hub so hopefully it was spread like a virus to all the other sites.
PS3=Exclusive AAA Quality Games
^Nuff Said
Agreed. It's why my collection is becoming a strict PS3 exclusive one.
Just another thing that is better about the ps3 is it's blu-ray not only do we get better picture for most of our exclusives but the developers can make bigger games due to the space we have. However the only thing i wish the ps3 has to better in the framerate. Being that said most developers should learn from naughty dog or polyphony digital because those 2 are among the best at making the best framerate!!!!
Whenever I'm at a friends and they have a 360 it looks last gen hardware wise, my PS3 still makes me feel the way I did when I first popped a game in on Day1.
I have a bad feeling with microsoft releasing a handheld. It will probably have some sort or cooling fan. HAHAHAH overheating!!!
MS is releasing a handheld?
and it will spray mist too.
We all know what the story will be.
one of my buddies still plays his 360 on a sd tv. i give him shit about it and he doesnt even care. its not the money either because he had a settlement he won and got like 18 grand. he didnt even buy a new tv with that money. half the people i know with 360's have it hooked up to a sd tv. most of them only play CoD.
the exclusives on ps3 cant be touched graphically by anything on the 360. most exclusive games on the 360 look cartoony to me. i guess play what you want but at this point when both systems are the same price why not buy the one that is future proof.
a couple years from now it will show just how old the 360 is getting. ps1 was around at least 5 years. xbox barely made 4 years. ps2 is over 10 years now. 360 im betting will barely make it to 8 years. ps3 will make it probably 12-15 years.
Ask those guys what it's like being Amish.
There are enough people still playing SD on the PS3 as well. Though the only one I personally know is… well, me. But I'm saving up for a nice 32 inch full HD. Will take me at least three more months, but it'll be worth it.
yes faraga you make your point and i wont deny it. the difference is that the one guy i know is perfectly happy to not have a hd tv. some people get stuck in their ways and dont want to upgrade. even though there is something better out there they keep telling themselves they dont need it. you on the other hand do want it and are saving for it. hope you catch my point.
might i recommend a samsung or a lg. im sure you have an idea for what you want already but cant go wrong with either of those.
Same here, when I first bought my PS3 and stuck on only playing it on a SDTV. It's a great start to jump and swim to HDTV's now cause they're getting cheaper.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 2/3/2011 1:11:57 PM
Well, that was a coy way of saying something without actually saying it.
PS3 owners are probably just dismissed when saying things like this, but it really is the only rational conclusion. Last generation Xbox got the better multiplat games because it was later to market and a more powerful system than PS2, but now its the other way around and poof.
i have pointed that out too. why the hell cant these developers just make the game better on the better system. laziness is the only excuse. when ND and other companies of their kind can make games that make 360 games look like a pile, that is the only thing i can think of.
@WorldEndsWithMe
Xbox still has better multiplats.
pretty sure that was his point
@LittleBigMidget
Actually, I think it varies from title to title.
I believe that this situation is only going to escalate as time goes on. Microsoft by all accounts has no intention of embracing Blu-Ray. They seek to move directly to digital-only gaming. But the problem is that disc-less consoles are still many years away.
And the next generation of consoles will in all likelihood be here well before then. The next Microsoft console is still going to be using DVDs. Meanwhile 100 GB Blu ray discs are already a reality. The PS3 does not support them but I strongly suspect that the PS4 will.
What this means is that the discrepancy between Playstation exclusives and multi-platform games is likely going to continue to grow not only with this generation but well into the next. Some developers have been complaining about the increasing constraint of the DVDs. And this situation is only made worse by Microsoft's royalty policies (for those unfamiliar Microsoft charges third party developers additional royalties for every disc a game comes on thus giving developers incentive to keep their games smaller). I wonder if any of them would go so far as to rebel and refuse to develop a game on Microsoft's console on account of refusing to compromise their plans for a game. (probably not I would imagine).
I believe that this is at least one of the reasons why Microsoft is investing so heavily in Kinect. I assume that we all remember that 500 million dollar marketing campaign? Microsoft may very well be trying to dodge the issue by doing what Nintendo has done and rely primarily on the casual market.
Of course there is no way of knowing for sure whether or not such a tactic will work. The casual market, unlike the core market, is believed to be fickle and unreliable. We are arguably already seeing signs of this. Right now Kinect is riding on it's wow factor. But the chances are that will not last forever. So I wonder how long it will be before it wears off and what's going to happen when it does.
Of course Microsoft could in theory simply have the next Xbox support larger multi-layer DVDs. However, it is very much uncertain as to whether or not they would actually take such a step as it would likely cut the into the money they make from royalties.
One thing is for sure though. It's certainly going to be very interesting to see how things ultimately play out.
Last edited by Looking Glass on 2/2/2011 10:24:51 PM
I don't believe MS has any intention to relay primarily on casual market.
That too is a possibility. But all this Kinect business seems to suggest otherwise.
what ms should have done is, recycle all those hd-dvd drives and discs, we wouldnt get even graphics but at least that way we would at least get more playtime out of multiplat videogames…
LookingGlass
Multi-layer DVD, like HD-DVD is a ship that sailed long ago. Bluray is here, and is the High Definition format. Multi-layer BluRay is a near certainty because even with full 1080p3D the data requirements are such that even a standard dual layer BluRay can handle a movie. There is an enhanced format for BluRay that allows more data per layer, and there are several multi-layer formats that require almost no modifications to player mechanicals other than a slight modification to the lens system. PS4 will almost certainly use a BluRay format disc, but the disc will be higher capacity than the current BluRay.
The primary determinant of the needed size of an optical disc format is the data required to encode a two hour movie on a single disk. Unless home video bumps the resolution from 1080p to 2160p (which isn't gonna happen soon since there are so many people who have yet to even make the move to 720p), there is no need to do more than the existing higher capacity and multi-layer BluRay formats can do. Lots of people try to say that download is the way forward, but until you can stream 3D 1080p with lossless audio and no compression artifacts or dropped frames over an Internet link, optical formats are here to stay.
Microsoft hitched itself to the wrong horse, didn't feed the horse well enough, put the horse out to pasture. After that, they decide to hitch their wagon to a mule instead of a carthorse. Sony on the other hand picked a clydesdale, nurtured it, fed it well and has a strong carthorse pulling it's wagon regardless of the load. Don't you love metaphor?
PS4 will be jawbreaking that's for sure, we can assume that it will have these new/read multi-layer blu-ray discs.
Naruto Ultimate ninja storm 2 is a great example.Just check the graphics and art of the characters between one and two.The 1st game ingame was like the anime,the 2nd one the characters outlines are not like an anime character.They don't have many attacks like the 1st one.The Adventure mode is not open world,it's corridor based.Play these games to find out the limitations of the 360.
Why did Dark souls become multi,They should have kept it PS3 Exclusive,dark souls won't be as good as Demon souls in graphics i guarantee.
People won't even buy the game on the 360,Y r these Japanese Dev's doing this???
well don't fear about dark souls because it is being developed as a ps3 sequel in japan, that means that they are basicly building a ps3 exclusive and once they are done with it the publisher is going to send the code to another dev to port it to the 360. Kind of like what EA did with the orange box on ps3, and if you ever had the misfortune to play the ps3 version you know how things like this turn out
well to be fair, Demon's Souls graphics weren't exactly its high point
That game's graphics may not be the best in the industry but they are still quite respectable.
I love how devs are somehow afraid of offending M$, just grow a pair and say it. The 360 is old hardware tech and makes the creation of current multi-platform games difficult because it holds them back.
Problem is, MS has disposable money to throw around.
On top of that, their fan base is exceptionally loyal.
Exceptionally loyal to a fault.
'But it's rare to see a developer say anything but, "the game will be identical on both platforms."'
Isn't that EXACTLY what he says in his answer to the qestion before the one you posted? How developers are now making games look identical on both? We owe it to ourselves to keep things in context.
Both systems produce some fantastic looking games. This is an undeniable fact. I've seen things in Alan Wake that aren't in the majority of PS3 exclusives. True enough, the PS3 does have a few titles that are unmatchable by the 360 in terms of graphics. But even as a diehard supporter of the PS3, I would never claim that the Xbox is holding games back. Especially when you factor in the money it costs to produce a game that fills a Blu Ray. Cost alone would inhibit such games from being in abundance before blame could be squarely aimed at the 360.
well said Porkchop 😉
We both thought alike on this.
You know, it would seem that on any gaming platform there are actually few games that actually push the limits of what that platform is capable of. This is why I believe that your mention of Alan Wake is a moot point.
But fair enough. The limitations of the 360 may not be the only factor at work here. But they are very likely a factor nevertheless.
Although incidentally money may not be as big a factor as you might think. There is the practice of teaming up with large and wealthy publishers for example.
Last edited by Looking Glass on 2/2/2011 11:23:17 PM
And besides, this is not just about graphics. This is also about content.
From a man that runs his own business, trust me, money is ALWAYS a factor.
And how is Alan Wake moot, but bringing up the PS3 exclusives is fair game?
But the gentleman in the interview NEVER says the 360 is holding anything back. He says something similar to what I have said here before because technology is not even close to mirroring the human imagination. All games are 'limited'.
And as I've always said, I trust in developers. They are what really matter to this industry. They are smart enough to work around limitations and bring us great experiences. To say that the 360 doesn't have full, lengthy, and satisfying experiences is just immature.
I never said that money wasn't a factor. Just perhaps not as big a factor as one might think. At least not in the video game industry anyway. The issue of money can be dealt with like for example in the way that I pointed out.
And I was afraid that you might not understand. I guess it's my fault for not being clear enough on this. Alan Wake may be one of the best looking games on the 360. But saying that it's better looking than some PS3 exclusives is irrelevant because as I said it would seem that on any gaming platform there are actually few games that actually push the limits of what that platform is capable of.
It's like this. Suppose a man wins a race. But the other runners in the race weren't actually trying to win. Therefore the man's victory doesn't actually mean anything.
And I wasn't actually talking about the interview or the man in it. I was talking about the issue in general.
One may be able to trust in developers. Unfortunately however developers are not the only ones in control in the video game industry. There are also manufacturers and publishers with perhaps questionable practices and/or conflicting interests to contend with.
Last edited by Looking Glass on 2/2/2011 11:58:29 PM
Well, I said in my first post that there are few games on the PS3 that are graphically unmatched by the 360. But if you take those 4 or 5 games vs the hundreds of games that are available on the market, why is it such a big deal?
The conversation on this page is implying that if a game is not developed exclusively for the Playstation 3, it's somehow diminished. Yet, by your own admission in your analogy, not every game, including some already exclusive to the PS3 , is striving for that pinnacle set by those select few.
As far as content, the multi disc method, however archaic, has been sufficient to bring us great games since the days of the PS1. I don't mind switching discs, if need be.
The point is that the 360 isn't as capable as the PS3. It's bar is set lower. Therefore any game on the 360, exclusive or multi-platform, is going to ultimately be constrained by that limit. And that same limit is not present on the PS3.
But of course there are games that don't try to be graphical and/or technical heavy hitters. Games that don't aim for high technical accomplishment or prowess. And that's perfectly alright. There is absolutely nothing wrong or shameful about that.
However, there are also games that do lean heavily on the technical side of things. Games that do try to really take advantage of the technology. That's when the 360's limits come into play, especially with regard to multi-platform games.
Don't get me wrong. These games can certainly still be really great games, limitations or no limitations. However the point is that even so these games, however great they may be, are still not going to be as great as they could be if they were exclusive to the PS3.
And on top of that there is also the issue of Microsoft's multiple disc policies to take into account.
Eh, the devs continue to talk out both sides of their mouth. I'm more inclined to listen to the ones who were pissed that they had to chop up their game for a DVD since it has the ring of truth. As for the hardware, yeah SE finally admitted they had to cut things off FFXIII to fit it into the architecture of the 360. If the inferior processing power and DVD gimping is in effect for multiplats I can't see how anyone could conclude anything other than the fact that one holds the other back. I'll let you figure out which is which.
It isn't maturity, it's simple math.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 2/3/2011 1:05:45 AM
Of course the 360 is holding games back. At least in regards to multiplatform development; as proven by the superior PS3 exclusives, the PS3 is capable of something the 360 isn't. Hence, logically speaking, developers that have to make the SAME product for both platforms will inevitably miss the capabilities of one.
It's why exclusives on all platforms are usually the cream of the crop, and it certainly is not a moot point to say that only a few PS3 exclusives outstrip the rest of the competition. The point is that it's possible. If all the greatest devs in the world opted to design games only for the PS3, we could potentially have 10 Uncharted-like games a year. So yes, it's hurting us.
This isn't to say ALL multiplats would be better on the PS3; they'd actually be better if they were exclusive to most any platform (excepting the Wii). And some devs really aren't familiar enough with the PS3 hardware. But in the end, when one piece of hardware is far more powerful and capable than the other, and one has to make a game look and play the same on both…the conclusions are clear.
@LG MS does not charge for multi disc games. That's a fact.
@Ben If you don't believe that if Naughty Dog or Santa Monica were given the 360 they couldn't come up with a similar experience and take advantage of THAT systems strengths, as talented as they are, you are looking at this backwards. And to say the PS3 is FAR more capable than the 360 is, well, that's your opinion. The tech numbers certainly don't match that claim.
Well that's a point of contention right there.
But even putting that aside my point still stands.
And with regard to your response to Ben, I don't know if he was referring specifically to the PS3 in his last sentence. He could have simply been bringing up a hypothetically situation. But even if he was referring to the PS3 there is another issue.
With regard to your last two sentences. That doesn't seem to be a particularly solid claim because it depends entirely on how you define "far".
Last edited by Looking Glass on 2/3/2011 1:50:47 AM
@ World
FF13 is an exception. You don't see game of that magnitude developed that often. And you show me where SE admitted that they cut content BECAUSE of the 360's limitations. That an assumption. No matter how many times you repeat that, it will not make it fact.
Square-Enix would never admit to that. Let's say hypothetically that it is indeed true. Would Square-Enix openly admit to it? No, of course not. Why would they do that? What would they have to gain from that? The answer is nothing. It could only hurt them.
@porkchop
actually microsoft does charge for multi disc. that is a fact. i forgot who said it before but thats exactly why multidisc games end up being only 2 discs. microsoft doesnt charge much for the second disc but the cost of going to 3 discs and up increases. they pay microsoft some kind of additional fee for each disc past 2. thats the reason ff13 went only up to 3 discs. final fantasy 13 fit into 3 discs because it was compressed so much to make it fit onto dvds. if they werent being charged more per disc, then they couldve just released the game on as many dvds as they wanted uncompressed like the ps3 version is and there shouldnt be as big a difference between the two versions.
EDIT: heres the article with john carmack saying that they have to pay additional licensing fees for multidisc games.
http://www.1up.com/news/quakecon-carmack-dishes-dirt-sony
Last edited by johnld on 2/3/2011 2:34:56 AM