Ben-DutkaIs anybody else sensing some serious out-of-touch bitterness from the movie industry? Like, they have a distinct yet irrational animosity towards an industry that routinely smacks them upside the head?
We all know about Roger Ebert's "games can't be art" argument (which he has since recanted, in a manner of speaking), but now, another film bigwig has decided to incur the wrath of gamers everywhere. Movie maker Mike Newell is well known for the "Harry Potter" movies, as well as "Four Weddings & A Funeral," "Donnie Brasco," "Mona Lisa Smile," and his most recent, "Prince of Persia." But during a recent interview with CVG , Newell basically flipped out when approached with the subject: "Well, here we are, talking about the goddamn games again." He admits they're a threat to Hollywood but certainly doesn't believe they can do "drama in any real sense."
"You can't do it without the human drama. And the video game cannot do that. The video game can do all sorts of face-pulling, all sorts of: 'I am a bad man, I have a mean jagged sword,', but it can't do any more than that. [The Prince Of Persia movie] does not mean to put two fingers up to the gamers or insult them – but it's not the game. It can't be the game.
Don't get me wrong – I watched the game and took many things from it. But I haven't had the experience of feeling in a game. The one thing I do not do when I watch my son mow down Brazilians by the regiment – nor when I watched my assistants playing Prince Of Persia – I don't feel anything, which is why I hate my son doing it."
Of course, he admits to not having played Heavy Rain or any other assortment of games that don't involve the theme, "I am a bad man, I have a mean jagged sword." Sadly for him, most all gamers living in the current age will see these comments as a man who still believes this is 1990 and all games are exactly the same, and incapable of operating on a "human" level. …that's too bad. Because now he's gonna hear about his mistake. We won't bother; he'll get it from both game makers and game players the world over.
And he deserves it.
Yeah, he's totally out-of-touch on this one. To me, a well-done video game can do drama better because you become a more active participant in a game than you do in a movie. One game I've seen generate a good deal of drama is Dragon's Age: Origin. There are a lot of people who feel wrapped up in the relationship and the drama it created between the warden they created and Morrigan. And that's just one example. Heavy Rain is as dramatic as any movie, even more so due to the player's involvement in how the drama plays out.
Why would a guy who feels this way about video games make a video game movie? Also why do people who know nothing about a subject think that because they can get press they should use it to bash something they have no knowledge of?
Poor guy, he's about to get bashed hard for for his ignorance.
The game that I felt most attached to the characters was Ace Combat 4 or 5 (can't remenber) when Grim crashed in the center of the stadium. I was like WTF! NOOOOOOOO hahaha. But seriously my brother and I went silent after that. The developers did a great job connecting you to the characters and when one of them dies, it hits you. Awesome stuff
Last edited by Him on 7/29/2010 12:39:30 PM
If he wanted drama, he should have chose a better game, i reckon a Shadow of Memories (So Destiny) film adaption could work very well. He's probaly just grouchy PoP was a flop. I don't want to lay into him to much because i actually did like Donnie Brasco but with a quote like "I am a bad man, I have a mean jagged sword." he's just asking for trouble.
I agree, this guy was upset that he couldn't make the first massive game-movie blockbuster. Butthurt even.
"My son My son My son My son My son My son My son"
Ah shut the hell up
I'd love to see him play Demon's Souls and tell me he doesn't get scared when a 10 feet skeleton bats him off a cliff with a 10 feet sword.
Or when he gets invaded by a black phantom hunting his ass down lol
—
It's one thing to play 20 minutes of a game.
It's another to actually play the whole game and then actually telling us that he didn't feel anything while completing the WHOLE game.
Ok Newell, let me watch 20 minutes of your movies and then say "I didn't feel anything."
Btw, I'm loving Demon's Souls. I only wish I bought it new, because From Software, Japan Studio, and Atlus would've got some of the proceeds which they deserve, and I would've had more time with the games online support (American servers are supposed to go through March '11, and may even go a bit longer seeing how this game is finally catching on, probably due to the drop in prices, used game price, and recent European release).
If he's so nuts over his son maybe he could see the drama in Heavy Rain like LOSING your son ya know?
De ja vous. I wonder how long it will take him to realize the error if his ways.
For a moment I began to think that maybe these movie bigs feel the gaming industry breathing down their necks and these comments are only an attempt to take advantage of the buzz. But the quotes are just ridiculous. You would think that someone who is involved in so many movies would at least put up a more articulate argument. An argument that he would lose of course.
His does reek of a movie-fanboy argument insofar as it has no proof or backing behind it.
What is it with people who share the Newell name that have to put their foot in their mouths? I sense another Newell (by name-sake) apology on the horizon!
How can someone with this attitude be the right person to of made a video game adapt movie? I haven't seen Prince of Persia but heard lack lustre reviews, now it's becoming more clear why this may be.
SPOILERS!:
The Metroid giving it's own life to save Samus from Mother Brain in Super Metroid.
Sephiroth killing Aeris (among other things) in FFVII.
The beginning of Uncharted 2
The beginning of the first God of War…
really I could go on about how wrong this guy is. For someone to say that without having even playing any good games is just downright ignorant. And you wonder why your movie, based on a GAME flopped, NARF!
Last edited by sunspider13 on 7/29/2010 12:57:17 PM
I'm sorry, Mike Newell, but whether you're an excellent filmmaker or not, you're clearly not too bright. I'll agree that the PoP games don't give you much "feeling", but there's a ton of games out there that do. I actually cried a little during the finale of Metal Gear Solid 4 because I knew it was an end of an era. I grew up with that series so I definitely felt some strong emotions when its end credits began to roll. Also, I have never felt more calm or relaxed as what I do when I play Flower. I haven't got around to Heavy Rain yet, but I can guarantee some strong emotions during that session, too. Basically, it comes down to this; play some well-written games before you start running your mouth.
Right on. I got a bit teary eyed too. But MGS 4 shattered the "Drama" mold. Kojima truly out did himself, which more and more Devs are doing and in turn its making Hollywood look like shit, who in turn talks down about the legitamacy of video games versus movies, then they take another blow at the Devs by turning their hard work (the games) into crappy, lifeless, shadows of their former greatness.
</rant>
You aren't Robinson Crusoe in getting a bit teary at the end of MGS4. It wasn't that it was the end of an era for me though. For me, it was Snake in that graveyard after everything he'd been through. Broke me down.
Peace.
MGS2 after ottacon's sister died
that had me choked up
Lol, so i assume its safe to say MGS has more drama than any man should admit to taking in one sitting, that is nicely ofset by action and suspense??
Another schmuck that doesn't know what the fu** he is talking about.
Let's put the emotional drama of CGI in games aside for a second and just look at the raw emotion of playing a game and beating it. I literally sweat and go through a myriad of emotions when playing a hard game or challenge. Whether it's Demon's Souls, World at War on veteran, KZ2 on elite mode or even those damn Alfhiem Challenges in Bayonetta. I've worked myself from sheer frustration and anger to utter joy and accomplishment.
What garbage movie has he put out that has mirrored half those emotions when watching.
The disconnect from these morons is just unfathomable.
There are alot of games now that crate emotion when you simulate the simulation(playing the video game). Petty naive of the guy to say such things. From what i played over the few years of gaming that delivered the human emotion as he seys are; the metal gear solid series, Uncharted 2, Demons Souls, God of War, Half Life 2, and Heavy Rain of course. Thats what i played sofar and i would like to say that Killzone 2 might have something going, in a sense of making you scared briefly every now and then.
He's kind of missing the fact that in a good game, the player becomes the main character and that's where the drama comes in. For instance, I felt far, FAR more immersed in Dead Space than I did watching any horror movie since Alien or Aliens.
The other thing about Dead Space was not being able to pause the game….the on-screen menu was AMAZING from an immersion aspect.
Also the sound and the way everything changed when you went into an "outer space" vacuum sequence.
Great game.
he must have never played heavy rain. that game is better than most movies.
*sigh*
Another dum-dum.
Just as you cannot fully appreciate the meaning of a film or drama without first becoming immersed within the work of art, so too are you unable to relate to any video game's artistic meaning without also being immersed.
I mean, take "The Truman Show" for example. A spectacular piece of art in movies. However, if I swing by when my wife is watching it and just watch partway through at say, the chase scene, it will have absolutely no meaning for me. If I had become immersed within the movie from the beginning and invested my time and energy into the character, Truman's attempt to escape has not only tremendous emotional meaning for me, but it also stretches my thoughts philosophically.
I'm going to work on my art essay the rest of the afternoon, thanks to this.
Yeah but the same could be said for a game, if i havent played a game for a long time and i want to play it but have a save halfway through, i'll start from the beginning again, i certainly would not start a game from halfway anyway.
yeah, that's my point actually. I should have said that. The same does apply to games, and that's what I was getting at. If he just watches his assistants play games or his son playing shooters, he's not going to understand the artistic values in many games. Same as if I walk past the Truman Show halfway through with no investment. That's the comparison I meant to make.
I am amazed how some people in the entertainment business can be so ignorant about other prominent media within the whole industry, such as video games.
There are plenty of critics who shared Newell's opinion, but about his own film!
But remarks like these, unsurprisingly, are coming from people who are willfully ignorant. They haven't played games. Newell himself says he didn't play POP, but had an assistant do it for him. He talks about how he sees his son playing this, or how much he hates his son doing that. But, even if he saw his son make a level in LBP, I'm sure he'd be just as unlikely to dog on video games as he'd be on legos.
I swear to God, just show any of these people like Ebert, or Newell a cutscene of Uncharted 2, and you'll see surprise on their faces. Then, put a controller in their hand, and watch that shock turn in to smiley excitement. Or have Newell play Heavy Rain, during the part where he is looking for his lost son in the mall, and then ask him if video games don't make you feel anything.
But I have a very strong feeling that these people know more than they are letting out. They know how the film industry and video games are heavily influencing each other, especially recently, but how one is growing faster than the other…and they are scared of and threatened by that.
Atheists are the same way with religion, lol. I just realized that XD
Everyone is atheist about the majority of religions that have ever occurred throughout history; some of us just go one god further.
Kowhoho: That doesn't make sense *scratches head*
Sorry, I was remembering a quote and screwed it up. Here's the original:
"We are all atheists about most of the gods humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." – Richard Dawkins
Again, doesn't make sense. To say you're an athiest means you don't believe in any god. The a- prefix means zero/none/not, where thiest means believing in a god/gods. Hence Monothiest means believing in 1 God, Polythiest means believing in many (I'm sure you already know this, but just in case). I think I get what the quote is trying to say, but still, wrong choice of words on R. Dawkins' part.
Last edited by WolfCrimson on 7/30/2010 4:59:21 AM
I once read a really great book called "God Doesn't Believe in the Atheist".
It's excellent, actually. The basic thesis is this: True unbelievers of religion must claim to be agnostic (without knowledge, by definition) because there is no way to determinately define the origin of existence without religion. You can believe the science of evolution, but so can the religious. It just doesn't define true origin or the beginning of time.
God doesn't believe in the atheist, because atheists make a decision to believe in the counter-existence of any 'god'. They can't prove God doesn't exist. They have to decide to believe he doesn't exist. For this reason, they are acting on faith in God's non-existence. Faith is the belief in the unseen or unproven, which is the foundation of religion. Atheism is, for this reason, a religion in and of itself which is, of course, a contradiction.
So it's ok to not believe in God, but if you are honest with yourself or even remotely scientific in your thinking, you are forced to admit you are an agnostic… NOT an atheist.
Good read, by the way!
Actually a lot of people – for that exact reason – call themselves agnostic atheists. They know that whatever belief system they choose cannot be proven or unproven, but their personal belief is that no god exists.
All this makes it sound like I love to talk about theistic technicalities but I really don't.
I always considered that agnostic atheist approach a cop out… It's a good reason to not care or not have to think about purpose, origin, etc.
I, for one, think it far nobler to continue to search and search and search until some truth makes itself known. Further still, I think it noble to continually question whatever it is you believe, whether it strengthens what you believe or causes some degree of alteration doesn't matter to me. Far better to have a firm foundation for your beliefs than to follow blindly out of convenience or ease.
@Underdog: That's common sense. I mean an athiest can only claim be a true athiest only if they see for themselves that every last religion is false. (not saying that every last religion is false, just saying that that's the criteria to be met)
@Underdog: I wouldn't use the term 'nobler'. I'd use the term 'correct'. (I realize I might be stepping on some people's toes this way, but it cannot be avoided) It's too much of an important matter to be left alone.
Yeah. I agree with you, though. Obviously as most do, I have a lot of friends who just say they don't believe in anything, or religion, or whatever. But most of them avoid deep questions.
I don't think it's healthy to dwell too much on heavy questions, as it can be tiring, but I hate the idea of just coasting through life without creating any real identity. I can't accept the idea that we're only here by chance with no meaning whatsoever. I hate the fact that we can't prove origin.
No one knows what happened. The fact that time had to start from a push from something beyond even the fourth dimension of time and space is even more frustrating.
How can you prove that higher dimensional force was a conscious being defined in no other way than "god" (or "I AM" from the origional Hebrew philosophy translated from the Greek/Hebrew equivalent of "YHWH") or a moving mass of 5th or 6th dimensional … thing… that fluke pushed the start of evolution and the development of the universe.
I've thought about this a lot…. lol As if you couldn't tell.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/30/2010 2:33:46 PM
It sounds like his son has been playing the wrong games… I mean I can for sure admit that Modern Warfare 2's multiplayer isn't going to evoke a great deal of emotion (other than the occasional controller hurling rage), but that isn't every game by a long stretch. I wasn't a huge fan of the gameplay in Final Fantasy XIII, but the story sure did pull me in, as did the God of War series. I personally feel that more emotion can be tapped into when you have some actual control over the character.
Oh yeah, Mr. Newell… Harry Potter? Didn't feel anything except depression when I ran out of popcorn. And I didn't see your other movies.
I wouldn't go near a Harry Potter movie with blinders on.
No human drama? Aeris was murdered. I cried. Drama. 'nuff said.
And that was over 10 years ago, now look at games, lol.
I've beaten that game 4 times, I cry every time. I know it's going to happen and I cry anyway.
I only cried once at that part. Every other time I just want to kill Sephiroth.
Wow! Does he understand how many other different forms of entertainment he's insulted?
"You can't do it without the human drama".
So does he mean to say that without an actual living human countenance going through the motions for you to sympathize with, then all of what entertainment brings to the table is automatically unsuccessful?
Well, with this statement you not only insulted video games, but animation and anime, novels relying on character development, etc. Before you go making generic statements Mr. Newell, make sure you call out the targeted enemy. Otherwise, you'll end up with a lot of enemies in a lot of places.
Since I enjoy all of the aforementioned types of entertainment, my thoughts about your ideas and train of thought are quite unpleasant. I would refrain from making careless comments in the future.
Ah Ben since when were all games the same in 1990?? You should be old enough to know better… Some of my favorite games were made around 1990, and none of them were the same, or had anything to do with 'I'm a bad man with a jagged sword' either. In fact, most games around 1990 had more drama and a better story than most garbage released today.
This guy needs to dig past the Call of Duty's and take a look at games like the Uncharted's! Now those games have better story & drama than most recent movies I've seen.
It's just a date I threw out there. Don't take it so literally.
i hate you gabe
lol, what?
lol
That last name's poisonous