Ben-DutkaAs far as I was concerned, one of the biggest selling points of the PlayStation 3 was it's backwards compatibility that would allow me to play almost any game I have in my PS1 and PS2 collection. This meant that early on, when the PS3 had little in the way of software, I could still choose from over 100 titles in my current collection, and still continue to play new PS2 games on my PS3. In other words, I'd have no reason to hold on to the PS2 once I upgraded.
However, as we all know, backwards compatibility for PS2 titles was one of the first features to be dropped from Sony's new machine, primarily in the interest of lowering production costs. Now, people complained, but I think they probably complained more about the $600 price tag the system sported at launch in late 2006. Besides, I started to notice that playback wasn't entirely perfect for some of my PS1 and PS2 games, and I actually started to miss my PS2 for older classics in my collection. So I got a silver PS2 Slim, which I've been using ever since. However, since it has become clear that Sony intends to release PS2 classics on the PSN alongside the existing PS1 classics, I've noticed a lot of negative feedback from supposed long-time PlayStation fans.
I understand the question, "why should I have to buy my PS2 games again?" I really do. But I think Sony's been so good to all of us over the years that we've gotten a mite spoiled… What other game console do you know of that's backwards compatible? The PS2 was entirely backwards compatible concerning PS1 games throughout its life so perhaps we all expected the same treatment this generation, but really, who else has ever given you true b/c? The Xbox 360 always had limited b/c due to its software emulation – I couldn't get most of my Xbox games to ever work well, even with the patches – and I'm not exactly seeing all the old Mario and Zelda titles readily available on the Wii. In fact, Nintendo, a pioneer of the industry, has only once delivered b/c, and that's with the Wii, and only goes as far back as the GC, so no Link to the Past and I bet PlayStation fans may want to be able to play Metal Gear Solid on the PS4. I suppose because the PS2 spoiled us we expect things to always remain the same, and I certainly can understand that.
The bottom line is that if you have old games for any other video game system (not counting PC), you need the old console for which it was originally intended. Period. And with the exception of the PS2 and the PS3 for a very short span of time, this hasn't changed. Personally, I just think it's amazing the PS3 even plays PS1 games. True, I need a PS2 hooked up so I can play PS2 games but what else is new? I always need to have my old consoles to play my old games! To denounce Sony for reissuing PS2 games on the Network – which does indeed cost them a little something and oh by the way, they're digital downloads – seems a little like a petulant, spoiled kid freaking out because one day, the teacher didn't give him a lollipop at the start of school. Nobody else ever got that lollipop but the spoiled kid ignored that and threw a tantrum because he was forced to take a step "back" to normalcy.
Are we spoiled? Yeah, perhaps a little. Backwards compatibility is something I kinda take for granted with PlayStation. Owning two of the original 60GB PS3s (still working fine) leaves me at an advantage over most.
I have to admit, that even if I didn't have these two gems, I'd have got a PS3 and probably purchased a slim PS2 along side it.
I think that some in the PlayStation community view backwards compatibility almost as a right. Now, I'm not sure how we think we have rights in this regard, but some do. I think it's acceptable to say that there is an expectation or hope, but not a right.
When the PS4 come along, I hope – for business reasons – that Sony opts for a design that can play PS3 software. the investment in software is so huge now, that backwards compatibility appears to me to be almost mandatory. There is a reason why PCs are generally backwards compatible all the way to DOS, and that reason is that it costs money to re-purchase applications every time the OS or CPU changes.
All that said, when you compare the PlayStation to other home console brands, it does stand out because of this commitment to backwards compatibility. Let's not forget that PSP Minis also play on PS3, just as PS1 classics play on the PSP.
One other thing I have to say is that Nintendo's original DS handheld offered a great deal of backwards compatibility. But since Nintendo uses cartridges, it's hard from generation to generation to maintain compatibility.
I can say that I'm a tad bit spoiled. My 60Gb is going out. Sadly, and I plan to purchase a slim soon, but I will not get rid of my 60Gb for the fact that it still plays my PS2 games just fine. I can't let that go.
When you get your PS3 Slim, contact Sony about an out of Warranty repair on the original 60GB, you'll get your system back effectively refurbished. Alternately there are several companies around that sell fully tested refurb units, they might be willing to perform a refurb on your 60GB system and offer their usual 90 warranty afterwards.
@ Highlander, how many watts of power does the PS3 60gb model put out and the later 80 model?
I have the later 80gb model. And is a 60gb refurb a good choice? I saw some Ebay with a 90 day warranty.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 7/4/2010 11:38:59 PM
basically what you send in to sony for repairs ps3 wise you'll get back. so if you sent in your 60gb ps3, they'll send you a refurbished 60gb back. i think i read it on their site or an email reply from playstation/sony. cost me 150 bucks and my ps3 fan is a little bit louder but i still feel its worth it.
I got a refurbished ps3 free after i got the yellow light, fan was defiantly louder, but runnin smooth as ever. Hasnt frozen once in a year i dont think.. 😀
As a correction, Nintendo allows GC games to play on the Wii, so Ninty isnt completely ignoring old generations, just mostly.
I do agree with Ben though, Sony pretty much invented the idea of backward compatibility, and since then we've all kind of felt like it was a right.
I have a ps3 that plays ps2 games, but i still have a ps2 sitting next to it. The ps2 was one of the greatest consoles to ever exist (if not the greatest) so i want to hold on to mine as long as possible.
For real. Saying Nintendo has 'never once delivered backwards compatibility' is not accurate at all. Not only is it backwards compatible, you can plug in your old controllers.
Also, it's only been now recently that Nintendo's handhelds haven't been b/c. Used to be able to play all my gameboy games on my GB Advance, and I think the first DS, but then I think it went away (but i think advance games still worked?)
As I noted in my post, the orignal DS and the first slim DS (not sure about the others) included a second cartridge slot that could take GBA cartridges. As it happens I think that was because one half of the DS is effectively a slightly upgraded GBA.
To be fair, the Wii is really just a pimped out gamecube, so its super easy to have bc.
Wii is a slim/transformed GameCube on steroids. And yes it does play GC games.
I think it needs stronger steriods.
I was going to fast. I meant to say the Wii didn't do b/c like the PS3 at one time (two generations b/c). It's fixed now.
I'll forgive you this time, Ben 😉
Also…
"I was going too fast"
Sorry, i had to.
Last edited by NoSmokingBandit on 7/5/2010 9:57:08 AM
Damn right!
All my Playstation's spoil me!!!!!
And I'm loving every damned minute of it
Yes, even "HAZE" too!!!!!
(I'm just trying to whittle down some of my huge PS3 games backlog, and just finished "Killzone 2").
I'm still playing my PS2, got my old "Dues Ex" spinning out some gameplay on it.
I've also got "Killzone Liberation" playing on one of my PSP's.
And I'm almost ready to pop "Driver" into my original Playstaion console too.
As for my 360, I've I've got 224 original xbox games & have tried to play about 40 out of those on my 360, and not one of them would play(kept getting MS's famous non-B/C message).
And since I had spent so much valuable gaming time just to check those 40 out, I'm not even going to see if any of the other game in my collection will work on the 360, so screw it cause I still got my old xbox with the 2nd "Dues Ex" in the series in that console too.
BTW, I don't have a wii as of yet, but I swear I thought I read an early article somewhere, stating the Wii was B/C, with Gamecube's games.
Although I don't know how those lil GB discs wouldn't wind up lost somewhere in the belly of the beast, LOL
Last edited by BikerSaint on 7/4/2010 10:33:20 PM
High-Five!
haze isnt as bad as people say it was. in my opinion, its a pretty decent game at best. i did enjoy playing especially when i turn enemies against each other.
Is anybody even using the PS3's ability to play PSX games? Why would you do that? Just keep your PS2 for all those PSX and PS2 games. Are kids these days really limited to the amounts of inputs they're allowed to use on the new TV? What the hell does dad have plugged in??
Exactly, until I gave away my ps2 (which I still regret, I need to buy a new one), I used to have my PS3/PS2/SNES all plugged in at the same time (Yes, i love playing my snes that much, as well as my sega still ;D )
i still use my ps3 to play ff7,8,and9 games. also those dragonball gt, dragonball ultimate battle 22 and marvel vs capcom 1. i have no problem with running out of composite cable ports because the stand i bought for my ps2 has about 4 extra ports to plug in psx, n64, gamecube, and wii.
johnld,
You're right about Haze.
I had heard so much negative stuff about Haze, I was hesitant to pop it on & play it last week, but I finally said "Aww, what the hell", & I'm glad I did, because even though there were a few glitches(my cannon buggy floating in air after getting hit, & your team mates constantly getting in the way of your crosshairs while shooting enemies), it was still a decent game & I loved the story's concept about Nectar & switching sides.
It's a shame Free Radical is no more cause I'd really like to see how the cliffhanger at the end would've gotten resolves further in the game's franchise.
Hopefully, maybe another good developer could pick up the right's & push Haze forward.
Wait just a darn minute here, when was it announced that PS2 Classics are coming to PSN?
Good point. You know something we dont Ben?
what i remember saying is that they're releasing sly games on ps3. but theres supposed to be an icon on the box that shows that sony is planning to release ps3 classic game line.
It's just talk right now. But it's bound to happen.
I find it hilarious for people who complained about no BC.
I buy a PS3 to play PS3 games, not for PS2 games, and I also have my PS2 for that purpose.
What's the point of complaining about no BC?
My sweet gaming room I built in my basement wouldn't look as aesthetic and symmetrical as it does if I had multiple systems hooked up.
I currently am playing through PS1's Dragon Warrior 7 on my B/C 60GB PS3.
Blame it on the PS2. Sony users got used to the BC for so many years that it became an expectation when the PS3 was introduced. Launch models solidified this by including the feature. When it was removed it quickly became a taking candy from the babies type situation. Us early adoptors need to enjoy it while it lasts.
I still own all three but hardly use the older consoles anyway. I bought a PS3 for the power and innovation that the machine was created for. When I get nostalgic I fire up the veterans if I have to.
I do see both points of view though. A consumer wants as much value from a product as possible. BC will provide quite a library for players to chose from. On the other hand SONY is running a business. Removing the Emotion Engine was a business choice that we all have to live with. Maybe someday when a viable emulation solution its created we can all be happy.
A man can dream can't he?
Last edited by FatherSun on 7/4/2010 10:37:35 PM
Let's not forget that playing PS2 games on a PS3 means that if the PS3 is hooked up through HDMI, your PS2 games upscale to 720/1080. Upscaled PS2 looks infinitely better than 480p PS2, even on my 19" TV, and not all PS2 games support 480p.
Sure, it'd be great to play San Andreas of SOTC one more time, but if I can't, I'll live. Let's keep moving forward people. They're not quite old enough for nostalgia yet (like 8-bit gaming)
What Sony should do is introduce a B/C ps3 next time they decide to lower ps3 Slim's price.
And by the way, this is a lesson to those who refused to get the ps3 early on. All of us who stood loyal to Sony in its first 2 years are enjoying our 60GB ps3s just fine 8)
—
Those whining 'bout being able to buy ps2 games on their ps3s should be thankful. You'll never get such quality on the 360, the original xbox had a mediocre list of exclusives.
—
I love using the ps1/ps2 since I can properly hook them up to a Standard TV. HDTVs can make those games look so-so. Those games were meant for lower resolutions.
PS: I've never sold any of my game consoles. Gamestop will always buy it for like $50 anyway, why throw away your console like that?
As much as I love the idea of reintroducing BC, I really hope it its done thru software. A hardware solution is of course highly unlikely but if it magically appears it may alienate some purchasers. De ja vous.
Last edited by FatherSun on 7/4/2010 10:57:01 PM
Agree Scarecrow, I wish I never exchanged my PS1 and games to a game store (it wasn't gamestop, forgot the name). Really wish I still had it, so I can give to my new friends that I met that live in the far east.
could not agree with you more…best comment of the year award goes to the Crow!!!!
I have a 60 GB Ps3; and ps2 games didn't look right to me on it. As a result, I went back to playing my ps2 games on my ps2.
I don't understand why people are complaining. Most of ps3 owners had and most likely still have a ps2. If they want to play their ps2 games, why don't they just use their ps2? BC is a convenient feature, but is also an expensive feature. It is not imperative to have it; and if Sony removes it to save money and reduce the cost of the Ps3, then there is no problem in that.
to those people who are "holding out" on buying a ps3 because theres no backwards compatibility. you are idiots. if backwards compatibility was really that big of a factor to buying a ps3, you should've bought a ps3 when they announced that backward compatibility is being taken out at the same time as dropping the price by 100 bucks.
all this whining about bc taken out just gets irritating. the fact is, with the ps3s software lineup, you will barely even use that ps3 function. aside from the occasional playing of marvel vs capcom 2 when people are over (thats the only way to play fighting games because online screws it up) i dont really use my ps2 backward compatibility. if i wanted to do that, i still have my ps2 anyway. if you want to play ps2 game, get a damn ps2 then.
Last edited by johnld on 7/4/2010 11:54:49 PM
There are still Metal Gear Solid 4 Bundle PS3's out there that people can buy that are actually full ps1 and ps2 backwards compatible. Think they're on amazon or Ebay ranging from 450 to 700 bucks.
only games i would love to play from my psx catalog would be power move pro wrestling and NBA in the zone.
To me, I have never cared for the entire backwards compatibility issue in the PS3's. I had no problem trading my 60G in for a slim. I only have GT3, GT4, and AC04 left from my PS2 days, and if I ever feel the need to play them, PS2's are cheap enough to pick one up.
And yes, PS3 fans are spoiled. I believe our "spoiling" comes from education. The PS3 is by far the most complete console on the market. The future looks bright as well with PSN Plus, Move, and 3D gaming.
I don't know if some of you are spoiled, but not me. If I already have this PS2 games, I won't be buying it again on PSN. However, if they make HD remake like God of War and hopefully they will do Ico/SoTC then I'll buy them again.
The PS3 has a really long and bright future. BC is not needed much any more now there is 3D, move, and a list of exclusives that never end.
Do not hold out on purshasing PS3 just because it can't play PS2 games!
You are missing out big time.
Whoa. Wait. PS2 games are coming to PSN? This was something I really wanted to hear from E3 but it never happened. Did something get announced without me knowing?
I just hope that someday Sony re-releases PS2 software emulation for the PS3 users who still have the disc based media. Or at least provide disc-based support for the games that they will eventually release on PSN. That seems fair enough.
I'm still a bit sore about this topic. Sony marketed the PS3 with B/C from the start. It was part of the PS3's DNA. I understand them having to strip out the extra PS2 chip to reduce costs. I'm sure like most of us posting here, no one wanted Sony to tank and die like most consoles do when they get off to a slow start. Removing B/C entirely though, I thought that was pretty upsetting. Was the already made software emulator really costing them that much money?
Yes, emulation isn't perfect, but I'd rather have that, then having to go re-buy a PS2 because Sony decided for me that I didn't really want to play PS2 games on my PS3 after all.
But everything was okay, I had a PS3 launch model, right?
Yes, until it overheated from dust bunnies being clogged up inside it up the wazzu. Seriously, when it died I was desperate to get Uncharted 2 out from inside of the hardware. It was a rental (worth owning of course), I didn't want to pay a $150 for a repair, and also have a fairly old HDD. It was time for one of them nice PS3 slims… Still very nice indeed. But I got in under the hood of this unit (not easy to do). All the way into the deep recesses of the circuitry, passed the neural net-processor used in T2, into where the Cell silicon lay nestled. On the board a crap load of dust bunnies laid caked on the circuitry, clogging airflow and breathing room. Dust will trap heat and wear down circuitry.
Well, Temjin you shouldn't have played your PS3 so much and did a little cleaning every so often.
But I did, and it was pretty routine for me to wipe it down and even use a vacuum suction hose on the vents. From it's outward appearance it looked great. though, those loud fans on the inside, grew louder and I knew things weren't well beneath that attractive glossy black shell.
… Okay, enough with my PS3's life story dramatizations. So consoles just aren't built like they used to be and that bothers me. So there. And I want PS2 games available for PSN.
As for B/C support in consoles.
Sony in the past has done well for B/C. I was pretty disappointed that SOny totally removed PS2 support altogether from PS3. It was a selling feature to me.
A side note about B/C.
The Wii has B/C support complete with 4 controller ports and memory card from the backside. Granted, the Wii's hardware was augmented GC hardware, but none-the-less, most any of a person's Nintendo games since 2001 will work on the Wii you own today. Can't complain about that.
Just a small clarification… PS3 never had full software emulation. First PS3's had 2 chips, one for PS2 CPU and one for PS2 GPU. First EU PS3's had software emulation for PS2 CPU but it still had PS2 GPU. There has never been a PS3 which had software emulation for PS2 GPU.
Last edited by Nutoma on 7/5/2010 4:00:12 AM
To add to what Nutoma has said, the reason that the PS2 GPU was still in the PS3s that features software emulation of the EE (PS2s CPU) is that even the PS3's hardware is not capable of running a software emulation of the architecture in the PS2s GPU. That design was far ahead of it's time and quite exotic. If you have ever wondered how the PS2 is capable of games like God of War or GT4, this is the single biggest reason, it's GPU was AWESOME.
Interesting, I either didn't know that, or had forgotten about the PS2 GPU stuff. It makes more sense to me now that Sony pulled all of the PS2 B/C support for PS3's.
Though, I believe I read a headline not to long ago about a Cell based emulation method that was patented by Sony for PS2 games. Perhaps if this PS2/PSN stuff is true we'll see how all of it works, maybe even with some augmentation.
I'm sure enhancing the image filtering quality is possible.
Heck, the GoW collection took some of the best looking PS2 games and raised the res, added anti- aliasing, and increased the FPS.
Similar stuff has been done with MS's console.
While 360's B/C support is sketchy, sometimes favorably, and other times not so great to un-playable. The supported B/C Xbox games run with 4x MSAA, effectively cleaning up those un-sitely jaggies.. I also think the original Halo has a FPS boost to 60fps!
I think that patent relates to an attempt to build a different kind of emulation for PS2 games. Something called dynamic recompilation where the emulation is not a hardware level emulation. I believe that with regard to emulating the PS2, the idea is to have a full emulation of the Emotion engine and use dynamic recompilation to handle the Graphics Synthesizer requests. What that would mean is that for each game to be run in the emulator, there would need to be a profile created that specifically configures the emulation for that game so that graphics routines optimized to replace certain functions of the original Graphics Synthesizer could be created on the fly – dynamically.
However, that is still a tall order. If it had been possible to emulate the hardware in software, then a single emulator would work for all games. But with dynamic recompilation although it's the same basic emulator, a game might require specific code to be bundled with it to provide the routines needed to emulate the hardware used by that game.
This is similar to the approach that Microsoft used with their attempt at backwards compatibility. The problem they faced was that the GPU in the original Xbox was not theirs, and to fully emulate it in software would have cost them a royalty check every bit as expensive as the one they wrote for the hardware. So they decided to use dynamic recompilation to essentially reverse engineer the functions used and map them to functions or routines on the new GPU. We all know how well that went…
Interesting stuff there Highlander
People to me need to stop complaining about it they are not going to bring it back so lets get over it and just buy a PS2 for petes sake.
I see it that Sony heard the consumers complaints about price and since the chip for B/C was really expensive to produce and put into the consoles they removed it so others could enjoy the PS3, so how I see it they gave more people old and new a better deal.
A PS2 anywase at least here in Canada 50 bucks and to be honest I have a B/C launched 20gig and yes it plays all my Ps2 games but sometimes they still look better on my PS2 and work better on the PS2
I personally think Sony has been very good to us the consumers and will continue to be good to the consumers and I personally don't feel spoiled but listened to, no other company does that out of the 3 consoles.
Yes. I believe the only way Sony would consider bringing it back is if the PS2 was taking out of the market and not being produced anymore. And even then they may just stick to the whole ps2 games on the PSN thing.