Ben-DutkaIt's the common developer refrain whenever a new PlayStation launches: "damnit, this is too hard !" But some designers are saying it really isn't that bad, including one studio who just produced one of the most impressive video games in history.
According to Examiner.com , Guerilla Games have said that the PlayStation 3 is actually "easier" to develop for than the PS2. This may come as a surprise to many, and they're obviously not implying that the PS2 is more "complicated" (at least, we don't think they are), but… Well, let's allow Guerilla Managing Director Hermen Hulst explain:
"If you are native to PlayStation, our tech director doesn't say it's particularly difficult. It's specific, but it's not difficult like PS2 was difficult – PS2 was difficult to crack, but PS3 didn't take us a long time to get up and running."
Added Development Director Arjan Brussee:
"I actually think PS3 is a simpler architecture than some of the other consoles; you just have to have a certain mindset on how to address it. I think the Cell-based processor with the SPUs and the super high speed DSPs that you can throw all your calculation tasks at gives us a model that's way easier to program for, even for junior programmers, than the general purpose multi-core type of architecture, which the PC and Xbox 360 have."
It's always interesting to see how developers respond to the PS3. We're starting to notice a trend, though: the devs that have really taken the time to focus on designing a piece of software for Sony's machine seem to have concluded two things: 1. the PS3 is one hell of a capable console, and 2. it's not quite as difficult as other devs would have you believe. Heck, he just got finished saying that it may not be as complex as either the PC or 360! This bodes well for the future, as we expect more designers to become more and more comfortable with the PS3 as time goes on.
Related Game(s): Killzone 2
Hopefully this promts more companies to develop for it!
I don't know if it is or not but sony is investing heavily on developers so don't think we will see lackage of games.
yep good old sony
It was the same thing with ps2
If you guys were around the year 2000 you'd know that EVERYONE was bitching 'bout how "hard" it was to develop for the ps2.
I remember those days.
Personally I think this guy is just trying to make his crew look better than they are. If he actually believes what he's saying then he's a tool, if he is just ego-stroking his employees then he's world class motivator. Either way this whole idea is ludicrous. It's easier to program for something you are familiar with every coder starts by learning PC coding therefore that is the most familiar thing to programmers the PS3 is so different it's impossible for it to be easier. I have little doubt that it becomes easier as they get familiar with it but this guy is either lying or is wrong.
they are comparing ps2 to ps3,they said it has been easier and faster task to learn the ps2 than ps3.They may have started with simple PC coding according to you but they have been working with the playstation hardware for over 7 years so for them is easier.I am sure If they were to make a game for 360(not happening)It would take them longer to figure out than the ps3.
"gives us a model that's way easier to program for, even for junior programmers, than the general purpose multi-core type of architecture, which the PC and Xbox 360 have"
No. pretty sure he's talking about PC and 360, but that could just be the specific mentioning of those two platforms throwing me off. And I hate to break it to you but they could have worked with PlayStation hardware for 15 years, it's not going to affect the learning curve for PS3. The hardware is simply a different sort of beast, the normal way of thinking about programming for all other types of consoles simply doesn't apply. And I have no doubt that they would have a harder time learning the 360 but that's only because Sony has an amazing support system setup between their 1st and 2nd party developers.
Last edited by SHADOW on 4/4/2009 1:44:19 AM
@ Shadow
Obviously he isn't 'stroking his teams ego', as he wouldn't be saying it was easy then would he? He'd be saying how they worked real hard in optimising certain things and doing things differently to get optimum performance- this would connote a dedicated and good developer. Instead they are saying 'junior programmers' could get into it. Now I don't know about you, but I think even slightly implying that fresh out of Uni programmers could do your work is NOT stroking your ego…
But as recent history has shown us tons of developers have come out and said how difficult programming for PS3 is. Yet his team found it "easy". I'd say you could definitely look at it from both directions.
I hope this makes those devs who said it was "too hard" feel really stupid. I'm guessing since xbox360 was so popular that when each company launched their PS3 development teams they just stuck the dummies in there, which is why we got a few bad ports early on. But dedicated intelligent folks who are able to understand the architecture don't seem to have too much trouble with it, especially since (in my observation of these kinds of quotes) they can throw any calculations needed at the Cell and it will just HANDLE them. Add that to the lack of space concerns on blu ray and the whole package adds up to less information squeezing.
Developers have more freedom with PS3; disc size, speed, graphics.
Is it's harder to develop for???
What ever you know is easier.
KILLZOWNED hahaha
srry had to do it
Things can only get better and better (and better) from here. Looking forward to see what's in the ps3's future (and Sony in general)
I've read that the PS3 is not necessarily easier, it's more work. Let's say you want a burger: On 360 you would program "go to McDonald's," while with the PS3 you would program "cook meat, slice cheese, slice tomato, etc."
I am not a programmer–the above analogy was written by someone who claimed to be a programmer in a forum somewhere. It was also written shortly after the PS3 launched.
I think it's more like, "have so-and-so slice the cheese and that other so-and-so toast the bun and that other so-and-so get the lettuce and pickles while I cook the meat."
I really don't think it is like that at all. The PS3 has a different structure but it is no more work than the 360 you just have to come at it from a different angle.
No i think that second description is pretty good. With a normal processor you just throw everything as it and you're good to go. With cell your sending different things to different places to get done.
-Not an expert on the Cell this is just the way i understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Ben,
"Heck, he just got finished saying that it may not be as complex as either the PS3 or 360!"
I think you meant "PC" there, not "PS3." 🙂
He could have meant PS2, but I got the gist.
I think it's PC.
I think it makes sense. PS2 wasnt really powerful in its generation like PS3 is now. Even if you screw up developing for PS3, and get a fraction of the power, it'll still look really good.
Most devs like to carry over chunks of code from one generation to the next. This is easy with pc games for obvious reasons, and its easy to recycle old code for the 360 because ppc programming has been around since the early 90s. The ps3 requires that you start fresh with an open mind. Devs who want to do things the old way will receive the same old results. If you want to get new, fresh, awesome results you need to start anew and work differently.
This looks good for the future too, because the Cell is kinda like an intel Core series cpu in that it can be updated by strapping more cores to it. So when the ps4 rolls in sony could unleash a 16 or 32 core Cell (hey, theres 8 core i7's out now) and old code would still work even though there is a ton more power. Sony knows what they are doing. Its like you are drawing a picture with just 6 colored pencils and you make a pretty sweet picture and you learn how to make those 6 colors work beautifully together, even though some people say its hard to get the technique down because they are used to fingerpainting on stone walls. The next time you make a painting you are given 16 pencils with more colors. The old colors arent obsolete and the techniques you learned to use them are still valid, you just have a ton more options. Thats what the jump will be like between the ps3 and ps4 if sony uses an updated Cell, which they should.
The i7's do not have eight cores; they are quad-cores that have two threads on each core (see: hyperthreading), which could be said to be similar to 8 cores, but physically they are still quad-cores.
Uh oh, its the old "Jaguar isn't 64 bits" argument again!
But jaguar isnt 64bit!!!
To be fair, Leopard isnt true 64bit either, but that has nothing to do with anything.
nah… its just the fact that dutch people are good at doing complicated stuff 🙂
its all way over my head i just hope the devs keep making outstanding games as time goes on, i play a lot of r6v2 and socom and when i put k2 back in i still am amazed at the detail and feel of the game!!
long may it continue!!
All i know is you'd want to be able to make statements like this after spending half a decade making one game.
It's nice that a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony Computer Entertainment can say something nice about the Playstation 3.
Take that Valve! Ya bunch of pussies!
Valve sucks my taint.
Translation = *sob*
At least when Valve takes four years and millions of dollars to make a product, it's above par, unlike Guerilla.
Not difficult, just different. Look at Insomniac, they're not super-human or anything yet they bring out an awesome PS3 exclusive every few hours or so.
Insomniac is superhuman. just for the record.
i think it was originaly harder because sony dident have many kits out for devs so they were on there own on a cell wich they havent touched before.
but now sony have lots of kits to help devs wich gives them a head start a book if you will to coppy off.
and of corse GG found it easy sony almost lived there healping them code for the ps3 insomniac even helped them i bet if sony and insomniac said figure it for yourself they would of found it ALOT harder.
but than ive found programming things no matter what it is c c+ C++ pasqual java mac pc the basics are the same.
yea i made that mistake to thinking the i7 has 8 cores because windows sees it as 8 but its because of the hyperthreading each core has 2 threads causing windows to see 4 cores.
but this is kind of overkill because ATM theres no programs/games that make use of the extra cores.
Killzone 2 has the best online server ever, i had not once encountered lag, disconnecting, or anything else wrong with the online service. This game had a 5 year development period, and they say its hard to program on PS3. If a developer is dedicated, the end results are just purely amazing indeed!
youve been lucky mate, every game ive entered has either had lag to the extent that one second a enemy is 100M away the next second hes right in frount of you.
or i get 90% of the way through build up 100+ points just so i can get a bloody 5021 error so i loose all my points than i cant get back into the game.
ive spent like 15 hours online playing the game and about tripple that trying to get into a game extremly annoying espechialy concidering that this has been in development for almost 5 years and the beta dident have half this many problems.
and you hear all these xbots saying well you would hope so because it took them 5 years.
hang on dident your highly aclaimed halo 3 take close to that?
how about GTAIV.
fallout 3 was longer if im not mistaken.
sorry guys but whats good for the goose is good for the gander.