Ben-DutkaWhile it's inevitable that those who frequently indulge in their favorite hobby, willingly diving into the minutiae that remains out of the casual fan's line of sight, there is a line in the sand. And sadly, as we look around the Internet, we start to realize that while the fanboys continue to infest and infect, the real disappointment centers on those who were once happy gamers and have now become unhappy grouches.
Believe it or not, the hating and elitism tends to go hand in hand. Essentially, if you're the "lone voice of opposition;" if you revel in being able to be one of the few dissenters who steps up in the forum and says, "you know, this massively hyped game just isn't that good," then you are the problem. You write a novella explaining why you know more than the average gamer, and yet…your conclusion is always the same. You spend their life trying to tear down the best games in existence, and as you can see by the description, there's an obvious element of elitism involved. Now, one can easily attribute this phenomenon to the fact that too many gamers remain insecure in reality and attempt to enforce their will online, thanks to the warm, glowing safety of a video screen. There's no risk besides contending with typed words, and the level of hostility shoots through the roof.
Killzone 2 just released, and while it's not perfect – no game is "perfect" – it's certainly one of the best games of the generation. That's not really debatable, whether it's your cup of tea or not. Many didn't reward Sega for creating the original, innovative, and engaging action/RPG Valkyria Chronicles last year, but that doesn't stop it from being a top-notch title. My point is that too many debaters and arguers online seem to believe that "opinion" is all that matters; that everything in the gaming industry is subjective. But while everyone is entitled to an opinion, and one can say, "I like Army Men: Green Rogue more than I like Grand Theft Auto III," they cannot say "Green Rogue is better than GTAIII." The latter isn't opinion; it's an incorrect statement. Inherent quality is not and never will be dependent on personal opinion . You can think that cubic zirconia is prettier than that diamond…doesn't change the obvious fact that one is of a higher quality.
And so, the haters and elitists think they can just step in, examine the aforementioned minutiae in the wee hours of the morning, and then impress everyone with their vast wealth of acquired knowledge. After all, if it's all just opinion, then technically, your stance needs to be accepted, if not respected. Wrong. It doesn't need to be accepted, either. Gaming is about fun , and if the majority of people have fun with a particular product, the product has succeeded in its goal. We should learn to appreciate that, rather than pick out every last tiny negative detail we can find. Yes, I will certainly say that Killzone 2 is better than Halo 3 (really no comparison as far as I can tell), and I could list all my complaints with the latter, but why ? How come I can't just say that, for the most part, I had a great time playing it? I take my job as a critic seriously so I would break it all down if I had to, but the final conclusion really only centers on whether or not I think others will enjoy the game.
Enjoy . It's a fun word to say, isn't it? Can't the haters and elitists, who were once happy-go-lucky gamers that grinned at their TVs while sampling the latest Atari or NES game, return to their roots? Can't we just remember, for one second, that the ultimate goal is to feel entertained? Last question: if we spend all our time nitpicking and trying to prove ourselves (to complete strangers, by the way), how can we ever have any fun? The people I speak of must be miserable every day of their lives…even when immersing themselves in a hobby that's supposed to make you feel good . And that's just depressing .
Very good article. Fight those haters and elitists!
LOL! The irony……..Ace ma man,what's good?
Last edited by www on 3/4/2009 9:05:21 AM
You know…Killzone 2 just came out…and it was over-hyped. It wasn't that good.
HA, JUST KIDDING!!!
I actually don't care 'bout xbox fanboys anymore
The ps3 is merely 7 million behind the 360, a gap which will be closed probably this or early next year.
So in the end the 360 is a last gen console trying to capitalize in its initial run.
While it does have great games it's a laughable machine in terms of what of what it can actually offer.
Halo? Gears?
Ok so what's left Microsoft? struggling now? No big games this year? lol
Not a big FPSs fan but Killzone 2 seems like a great game. Just like Gears and some other 360 games are. So in the end it's just SHEER JEALOUSY on 360 fans who have nothing exclusive to play at the moment(and for a long time).
The jealousy is hurting them deep inside.
PS: Also shows that the ps3 crowd is actually the more educated/less trashy of the two. Lotta retarded jerks on the 360 fanbase.
Last edited by Scarecrow on 3/3/2009 11:10:36 PM
Did you even read the article man? It wasn't about 360 fanboys it was about the haters and elitists who think their position stands above everyone else's. And everyone who falls into that category can range from a 360 owner, to a ps3 owner, to a pc owner, or even an owner of a damn leapfrog. Come on now don't start stuff.
Last edited by ImTheMan on 3/3/2009 11:36:10 PM
Yea Scarecrow,don't start stuff.You're being a ps3 fanboy here,stop bashing 360.
well put it this way then 360 is a bad console with next to no games that make me want it ( even though i already have one biggest waste of money ever!)
We all know this years's the year of the PLaYStAtIoN 3 no doubt,
unmatched exclusives.MS wake up!
Lost & Damned & Halo Wars isn't enough!
@ImTheMan,
Yeah. I partially agree with you, but it seems that these days all the elitists and haters fall squarely in the 360-only-owning camp.
From a technical perspective, like the PS3, I think 360 is a very capable machine. I feel if a developer spent 4 years on developing a game, similar to Killzone 2, only for the 360, squeezing every last drop out of it, we would see some impressive stuff… the 360 is no slouch… but I still love my PS3 more and would never change it for the world…
Q!
"i am home"
Lol very true, but being a hater and elitest is also fun.
Ben someone can say that Army Men is better than GTA3 and be correct if it is based on a matter of opinion. The opinion becomes a false claim if it is based on statistical inaccuracies. (Saying Army Men is better than GTA3 in terms of overall sales).
No. "Better" is an indication of quality, and regardless of personal opinion, Army Men isn't of a higher quality than GTAIII. Just accept this.
Vertigo you are wrong.The word better stands for a lotta things.
But the inherent quality of a video game is grounded, ultimately, in human opinion. It's just like the judging of any diving or gymnastics event: judges base their opinions on solid facts. This almost always ends up where the scores for one performance/game are about the same. Which is what we want.
Ben, just saying that a game is "better" than another is a statement that doesn't tell anyone anything other than your opinion. Give us some concrete evidence why you think one game is superior–the average review scores would suffice.
Once we enter the "this is better than that" territory, we end up fighting in pissing contests where the only evidence presented is the opinions of both sides. That never ends well.
It's not difficult to explain how GTAIII is better than Army Men. It's not difficult to explain how the diver who went in cleanly performed a better dive than the one who made a big ol' splash.
This isn't rocket science. It's a sliding scale, in that it gets more and more difficult to judge what's "better" when the quality of two things are very close. But the further apart they get, the easier it is…and common sense, believe it or not, does exist. Opinion isn't everything and never will be.
If it's easy to explain, please do. That will give us the most information on the topic, and chances are that we will arrive at the same conclusion that you have about the quality of a game. Just asserting the conclusion isn't as effective as presenting the evidence.
Gotta agree FULLY with Ben here. It is only when you let personal opinion interfere with (what should be) Obvious characteristics which display quality, that you will choose something like Army Men over GTA in quality. Thats the problem with Reviews nowadays. It should be impartial but one's passion get in the way of professionalism.
@Phoelix
You want an explanation of abstract facts. Diamond vs Zirconia was a perfect example to help you get the "Painted picture," if you will, that Ben was trying to create.
Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 3/4/2009 2:05:15 PM
I completely agree with Vertigo. What game is better comes down to opinion. That's it.
But who decides what that quality is?
What if I think cubic zirconia is prettier than diamond? Then I'm inclined to say it's better.
"Better" is largely a cop-out when we don't want to explain what the truth really is. For example, if I were to compare CoD4 with Halo, I'd say that CoD is more tactical and teamwork is a huge part of success because it doesn't take many bullets to kill you. Therefore, it's also a lot less run-and-gun. Halo, however, is an arcade shooter with fun multiplayer matches. It's also centered around the melee attack since it's a great finishing attack.
If I preferred tactical shooters, I'd say CoD4 is better, and if I preferred arcade shooters I'd say Halo is better. But what I should really say is listed above. "Better" in this case does a disservice to whoever I'm speaking to.
It still pisses me off that one of my favorite game companies Valve sits in the haters section. Because I love their games, but every time they bash the ps3 it makes me not want to buy their stuff
BTN I love Valve (been playing CS since 1999) and I have to admit Gabe's continued dislike for the PS3 while supporting the 360 which is an inferior product confuses me. Being an avid PC gamer I can forgive him though since L4Dead has rocked my world since November. Just shows that no matter how great a company is there are always going to be some errors in judgment (where the hell is FF13!?)
Ben's top 2 favorite words: Elitist, Elitism. lol
@ImTheMan
Dude, you have it hard here. Peeps always thumbs down your posts for no reason. Even I can catch the joke in this…(the thumbs up was me! :P)
Who doesn't like the elitist though, right?
Me too 🙂
If you want to see blatant abuse of the thumb system post anything on gamespot.
@wage yeah its cool but I don't care. Nobody bothers me.
Great article Ben. It just seems like every other KZ2 review completely ignored the fact that the gameplay was very polished and that it's fun as hell, and more action-packed than most games.
They had to go out of their way and point out every single flaw.
Just the other day I read this LOOOONG explanation some writer gave about why Guerilla took the "easy" way when it came to making a good looking game. Saying that the only reason KZ2 looks good is because it's all architecture, and there is no foliage or round edges anywhere. Basically saying there are way more impressive games out there, which is bullshit, cause it IS the best looking console game out there.
I still think SOTC has better graphics than KZ2 in regards to art direction, hell I think SOTC has better art direction than any game ever made even though it is a PS2 game.
Very true. A better example of liking something more. Although realistic graphics obviously have a lot more effort, stuff like Okami and SotC are gorgeous and in originality produce better results to someone like me who is sick of realistic graphics (though of course no other graphic styles have been brought to higher levels, except a few here and there like Valkyria Chronicles)
Haven't opened my kz2 yet but I'm sure its better than halo 3 also.
Open it!
Haven't played K2 but i KNOW it's better than Halo 3.
Yea BETTER as in:
Gfx
Gameplay
you know the rest.
Its GREAT but takes some getting used to if you love games like Halo…like I do. I really still havent gotten used to it. Those Helgast pull off shots that you can Never do with the controls. (Dont hate out there, I play my games on Max Difficulty so back off if your rockin on Easy and want to hate.) I personally didn't like Halo3, it didnt have the same feel as the first two, so I think it is better but sadly the controls (IMO) could be a make or break for some…
Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 3/4/2009 2:15:27 PM
K2 is an awesome game, 'nuff said.
Ben the word "better" can be used as an adjective and thus is open to interpretation based on its usage. So someone can use the word better to describe their personal views towards a certain product (in this case KillZone2). Of course people's opinions have been shown to be grossly inaccurate when compared to the mainstream belief (your example of Army Men to GTA3) but still it is their opinion and they believe a certain product is better regardless of all the evidence you believe might show otherwise.
You give perfect evidence to this in your article when you mention your opinion in that KZ2 is better than Halo3. I'm sure there are Halo3 lovers out there that could cite just as many reasons for Halo3 being better as you could for KZ2. It is a matter of interpretation and personal likes/dislikes.
Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 3/4/2009 12:39:44 AM
It's a thin line, but there is a difference between saying "this game is better" and "I like this game better."
I think you and Ben are arguing in different directions.
I started out playing Killzone thinking I was going to like R2 better (easily changed my mind by the end), but it was clear from the beginning that Killzone was the "better" game.
Vertigo you're the elitist and the reason for this article to start with.
I wouldn't be surprised if this article is meant for you……..LOL!
jk-47 dude!
Last edited by www on 3/4/2009 6:43:14 AM
You're still not getting it. If you want to believe everything is based on personal opinion, go right ahead. I'm not about to bow to some idiot who says Pulse Racer's graphics are better than Gran Turismo 5: Prologue's because it's their "opinion."
Don't fall into the the "What the meaning of the word is is." Trap.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/4/2009 12:14:05 PM
F-ing semantics….heres a thumbs down for the feeble!
The only thing to seek is fun, not elitism.
Ben, you're my hero. I was just thinking about this stuff today while skimming through a forum on another site. It caught my eye but was mostly full of people bashing KZ2 for stupid reasons. 60% of it was people saying how they hated the controls, and obviously didn't realize they could change the control layout, for example … they didn't like the R3 scope. My KZ2 hasn't shown up yet, I'm hoping for tomorrow morning. Although I don't know how good i'll be at the game and i'd love to have some people to play with online, but we'll see how it goes.
@ Jasperloons
The word better has many uses, one being desirability, you can't tell someone their desirability is wrong. At least not in the context Ben is trying to argue.
Words are entertainment,don't be arguing about which word's better used than "better"…..let's just sit back and enjoy making statements even if it's not coherent……..LMAO!
FFIX=best FF ever!!!
Last edited by ImTheMan on 3/4/2009 1:25:41 AM
No way, TACTICS is the best FF ever! =D
-Arvis
FFVII=best FF ever!!!
Final Fantasy VII,VIII & IX = The perfect trilogy.
Ultima, I didn't know you LIKED anything…
-Arvis
It's a crime, I bought both FF8 and FF9 on release day, but never finished either…
I still have em, I should really go back and pass them… Why didn't I pass them? I seriously have no idea. FF8 was so awesome.