Ben-DutkaFor the most part, great games sell well. But there are some titles that simply don't get the credit they deserve.
Sure, they bring down high scores from critics and are widely revered by the hardcore crowd, but they just don't resonate with large groups of consumers. In the past, one could point to Tim Schafer's fantastic yet under-appreciated games, such as the much-lauded Psychonauts .
But what's the one game this past generation that didn't sell well enough in your estimation? For me, I'd have to say it could be either Resistance 2 or Resistance 3 ; the latter was the most disappointing on the sales charts, though. I knew it would happen, too. The problem is that it simply wasn't advertised enough and Call of Duty had already taken over the FPS genre. It's just too bad, because I adored R3. I didn't believe any of the criticism leveled at that game was justified, but that criticism is part of the reason it flopped.
I also think Alan Wake should've sold a lot more. It was a thrilling, fantastic adventure that was only slightly lacking in the gameplay department. It wasn't marketed all that well, either. It remains one of my absolute favorite games of the generation and, next to Lost Odyssey , my favorite Xbox 360 title. Oh, and there's another one- Lost Odyssey . Yeah, well, I know why it didn't sell for beans…it was on the 360. JRPGs on an Xbox platform simply don't work, as some designers found out the hard way.
What games didn't enjoy the sales you think they deserved?
I can think in some:
Resistance 3
Heavenly Sword
Binary Domain
Enslaved
Heavenly Sword Yes, but Enslaved Hell no! So forgettable and flat in comparison…
Besides R3 the definitive answer is DmC. It got judged against something else and not on its own merits. The same thing happened with Dante's Inferno, people only judged it against God of War and so didn't see the truth.
I completely agree. DmC was really good. Not the greatest, but an excellent reboot. And Dante's inferno was great. But I truly loved Prince of Persia. The one where Nolan North voice the protagonist. It had a great story and the combat was pretty fun, but then Ubi scrapped it for a terrible Forgotten sands game.
exactly whats wrong with 99% of reviewers these days, they review a game on what it should be, or should i say what they THINK it should be, rather than what it actually is.
DmC is a brilliant example of that.
judge a game on its own merits geniuses!
I have to agree with Resistance 3. A fantastic game. A huge improvement on the previous two in the trilogy, imo. It had very disappointing sales numbers, yet very good reviews.
Binary Domain is the number one game I can think of. It got good reviews from some sites but I feel like there was a lot of untruthful reviews out there about the game, Gametrailers for example was full of just plain wrong "facts".
I think it was compared to ME3 which was released around the same time. However I like Binary Domain way more as a TPS game, it just felt so good to play.
Resistance 3 I really liked the old school feel it had.
Folklore probably didn't sell more than 10 copies 😉 but boy was that game awesome.
Folklore? I'm really surprised anyone other than me cares to mention it. While I haven't played the whole thing (friend had it, not me), it was one of the most memorable games from the PS3. The art style was pretty and actually colorful, which is something most of the games of that era seemed to be afraid of like fire. And the music, don't even get me started on that!
I'm not sure about the sales figures but Valkyria Chronicles was also a title I felt didn't get the spotlight it actually deserved.
Shoot I forgot Valkyria Chronicles, thats definitely on my list. I love love love that game, and I'm not even a fan of strategy games lol.
I hope they make another console version some day 🙁
Also forgot to mention NIER, one of my favourite games this gen 😀
Last edited by xenris on 7/30/2013 10:45:42 AM
Folklore stays in my collection 4ever, one day I hope to finish it.
Resistance 3 having weak sales was the saddest to me. Such an excellent game.
Worse though, basically everything from Ninja Theory. Heavenly Sword was great, Enslaved was good, and DMC could've been ok. But na right? you just couldn't. You know what.
This is so true. I think Ninja Theory did a great job with their games. If only they hadn't turned on Sony after Heavenly Sword made poor sales, I think Sony might have lent a hand to help. Let's be honest, Sony I pretty generous to people who make exclusive content for them. Regardless, those 3 games were pretty good and should have done much better.
Another major problem with resistance 3 was the online pass. No one bought it because they knew there would be no one to play with (its pretty hard to find a game at the moment).
On top of that I knew several people who canceled their preorder just because of the online pass.
I love the game, its really great but I honestly regret pre ordering it.
The problem with Alan Wake is that it was on the wrong platform. Most people who like that game have a ps3.
The one I immediately thought of was Warhawk.
R3 did a lot of things right and it's the only Resistance game I cared for. Too bad it didn't sell better. They ditched the crap art direction of the prior game and went with something that felt much more atmospheric and moody, something that complements it's content well.
I also think Ratchet CiT deserved better. It was a truly fantastic game with virtually nothing else out there like it this gen.
I also didn't like how most critics responded to Gran Turismo 5, even if it seemed to sell well. I also felt too many critics said false things about Ninja Gaiden 3. Yes, it had major problems, but some statements just weren't true.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 7/30/2013 12:22:45 AM
oh yah, and I thought GoW Ascension got slammed too hard for finally adding multiplayer.
We have Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted and virtually everything out there now with some sort of multiplayer component, even GTA, and here, another multi-million dollar franchise, GoW, gets it and it's cranky time. That's not justification for it of course. It is gaming culture these days, so old bucks will keep wining as expected, but I am a FAN of these types of games and this type of feature is most welcome. Single player action games can usually be made into multiplayer ones without changing their core game play. Heck, Ascension's single player game play improved because of it.
oh, and in terms of equal distribution of whiners, Ninja Gaiden has been doing multiplayer since NGS2 and I think hardly anyone complained. But give it to a BIG exclusive ip and it's cranky time that must always be mentioned =p
Ugghh, I really disliked The Ninja Gaidens, The fighting felt too stiff.
Yeah I loved Resistance 3 too.
I thought Enslaved was a beautiful game – really disappointed it didn't do well.
Yeah, I really enjoyed Enslaved. I was hoping for a sequel.
The game that tops the list for me is Nier. I thought the game was fantastic in so many ways. It's a shame it didn't sell very well and the developer ended up going bye bye.
Nier was a brilliant game. Action RPG with oodles of character, surreal storyline which just oozed atmosphere and the best soundtrack of this generation.
Criminally unsupported by Square Enix.
Heavenly Sword
"JRPGs on an Xbox platform simply don't work"
I'm confused. Why do you keep repeating this and just totally ignore the actual facts we found in the forum thread that covered this topic? It is simply just a myth.
I won't repeat all the details here, those who are interested in the numbers can check out the thread on the PSXE forums named "Gamers across platforms – how different are they?" in the general discussion forum.
But to summarize: On average the sales of jrpgs are roughly evenly spread between the two platforms, with a *slight* (and I repeat, SLIGHT) preference on the PS platform.
Within a +/- 20% margin we practically got the entire jrpg market covered across the two consoles.
Summa summarum, if a publisher only released a jrpg to one of the consoles they likely say "no thanks" to 30-50% of the sales unless we talk about a franchise that is already well established on the Playstation platform (read: Final Fantasy).
That is just simply how it is. No need to feed the myths.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 2:21:54 AM
Really? I remember the sales for Final Fantasy XIII-2 being dramatically different. The initial 360 release figures in Japan wasn't even 5 digits.
You cannot deny Lost Odyssey was depreciated on the 360 though, probably why Mistwalker took The Last Story to the Wii. I don't know why they got all these JRPG exclusives for S-E like The Last Remnant, Infinite Discovery and I am sure there was another one. They later released Star Ocean 4 onto the PS3 But after the poor reception it got and mediocre reviews I don't think many people bought it – It's still sitting on myself to be honest.
Yes, the numbers for Final Fantasy are dramatically different. But they are also a dramatic exception, we don't find anything like that on other jrpgs released this generation. It is fundamentally flawed to judge the entire market based on a single franchise that to this extent is historically tied to just one of the platforms.
If we look at the sales numbers on the western markets (euro and North America) for ALL jrpgs on both platforms, the answer we get is that while jrpgs tend to sell slightly better on the PS3, it's not in any way shape or form the colossal difference that some want to make you believe.
That is a myth we busted on the mentioned thread in the PSXE forums a while ago. I encourage all to join the forums to participate in similar discussions in the future. It really can be quite interesting!
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 5:02:29 AM
Beamboom, you didn't "bust" anything. I tried to explain it but of course, nobody listened.
The numbers are absolutely meaningless for a variety of reasons. Some of the games, for instance, released a YEAR ahead of time on the Xbox 360 and only came out for the PS3 later. In fact, several big-name titles debuted on 360 first. It was during a stretch of time when Microsoft was trying to push the Xbox 360 in Japan with a slew of JRPGs.
So, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean: The Last Hope, etc.; they were only available on 360 at first. By the time some of these games got to PS3, nobody cared much. They also couldn't sell for sh** in Japan so MS decided to stop recruiting devs to make JRPGs. What's the last exclusive JRPG you've seen to an Xbox platform, Beamboom? What, you think they stopped because they were selling? And how many exclusive JRPGs keep coming out for the PS3? At least several a year.
The reason for this is still very simple. Those who grew up with JRPGs had to turn to PlayStation for several generations. They had no other alternative. The original Xbox didn't even HAVE the genre, for the most part. So, when the PS3/360 generation came around, NO JRPG FAN ON EARTH would've opted for the 360 over the PS3. As time went on, and they realized what MS was trying to do, I'm sure some of those fans bought 360s. It's obvious that they did. That's the only thing your numbers prove. It hardly proves what long-time JRPG fans prefer in terms of platform.
And lastly, I suppose the single biggest name in JRPGs – Final Fantasy – selling less than HALF as much on the 360 (FFXIII, FFXIII-2) means nothing, right? It's essentially the only one you can use, too, because it's one of the very few titles in your SERIOUSLY flawed statistical rundown that came out at the same time for both systems, and was recognizable to all fans in the group.
I should also add that you completely negated quality in the analysis. Mediocre games, regardless of genre or platform, don't sell. The sad part is that really GOOD JRPGs that were exclusive to 360 (like Lost Odyssey) sell about the same as MEDIOCRE JRPGs exclusive to the PS3. You can't honestly think that comparing sales in one genre, while ignoring how good the games are, makes ANY sense, do you?
You've said yourself that most of the games you love were critically acclaimed. Don't you get it? Once again, I beg you- take a survey. Go to a JRPG-oriented forum or community. Ask what platform they prefer; I GUARANTEE 9 out of 10 say PlayStation. Prove me wrong.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/30/2013 10:35:21 AM
I do think FFXIII is valid (despite it being 3 discs and a bit lesser in the performance area on 360) as a comparison point. One way or another it's appeal was specifically aimed at the jRPG populace. MS even went as far as bundling FFXIII with a 360 in a very nice console box, whereas Sony didn't (at least I don't recall). It was the first MAJOR jrpg release. The clear divide in sales is probably the best indicator that Xbox's base is less interested in jRPGs.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 7/30/2013 10:56:16 AM
I don't want to start another discussion with you here in the comments field Ben, cause that has proven to very rarely be productive. Also, all this is discussed – in detail – in the thread I refer to.
I just wanted to make those who read these comments become aware of the numbers behind this claim. The numbers are what they are, it's up to everyone to interpret them as they feel like – and that includes you, of course.
One can bicker and quarrel (for whatever reason) what platform is the "best" for jrpgs or what this or that *really* means. I don't even care about the outcome of such a discussion.
But none in their right economical mind would dismiss a platform that can potentially offer an additional 30-50% sales as worthless. And that is the clear tale of these numbers. For *whatever* reason.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 12:10:50 PM
Anybody who believes numbers are the arbiter of reason and truth deserves to be led astray, Beamboom.
Oh djzesuz. A sale is a sale, ffs. That is truth right there. And when ALL titles but ONE single release shows you miss out on 30-50% sales by skipping one platform then that is just how it is, and you would be a pretty fantastic salesman to pitch the idea to a management or board meeting that this platform "simply don't work".
What I don't understand *why* you are this hell-bent on not accepting what actual facts tell you.
I mean, to question the numbers or seek alternative explanations is one thing (and healthy in any debate), but to completely categorically denying everything the facts tells you like you sit on the answer to life, the universe and everything (woohoo – a book reference!)… It's just so… Insistive! (and if that's not a word I am making it right now! 😀 )
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 12:52:05 PM
The forums are a great place to go if you want to see bad ideas and laughable opinions supported by made up facts and arbitrary statistics in order to compensate for either a grotesque amount of insecurity or microscopic manhood. (Unsure which)
Its the darkened alley of psxe where good ideas go to be raped and pillaged by low-SES thought patterns with a C to B averaged paper thin post secondary education.
Beam, I don't know what the stats are, but if, as a shareholder, im being told these conclusions based only on sales figures and ghost estimates of what could have been, im selling.
Using stats that you cherry pick to prove what you already believe in doesn't make your argument any stronger.
If you really think that early in the generation Tales of V, Lost Odyssey, Eternal Sonata (360 release date), Star Ocean TLH (360 release date), or even Infinite Undiscovery wouldn't have shifted a lot more copies on PS3 then you are just blind to reality and probably haven't spent any actualy time in the genre.
Beamboom, I explained why your "facts" are, at the very least, incomplete. I'm not the one ignoring the huge amount of mitigating factors and extenuating circumstances. You are.
And if you're so obsessed with hard numbers, I already gave you a task. I told you to pick a JRPG forum (there are many) and simply take a quick poll. My contention is that at least 9 out of 10 will go with PlayStation over Xbox, because I'm a fan (or maybe former fan) of the genre and I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
I never said no JRPG fans own a 360. I said more would own a PlayStation platform. I said if you're a LONG-TIME JRPG fan, you will almost certainly side with PlayStation. That is a simple, straightforward, unadulterated fact, whether you choose to believe it or not.
What I don't get is your driving desire to make everyone the same. To think all gamers across all platforms have the same tastes and preferences. Why? Does that even make any sense? You don't honestly believe that, do you? If you do, then you're right, there's no further discussion.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/30/2013 3:02:03 PM
and it's not that the Xbox couldn't sustain an jRPG culture. They could if given enough reasons to years ago. The first Xbox was very much a PC meets console world. It's most prolific games weren't of a Japanese origin. I remember reading that when MS surveyed what types of games gamers wanted most on 360, people responded with jRPGs (pre-360). MS went out and hand picked designers to form Mistwalker. They produced Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. S-E was also producing their own titles for 360. The problem is ALL of those titles came up very soft, critically, except Lost Odyssey. And even Lost Odyssey was coming off slanted with many because it wasn't the popular evolution of Bioware style RPG's. Something very popular and a home base to the XBox crowd. There were a number of critics who slammed LO for not being as good or more like Mass Effect (!)
MS took notice to how much money they were dumping into a culture not conditioned to jRPG's and abandoned those plans altogether. I'm sure they knew, that with enough jRPG-centric ip's and enough time they could cultivate a strong jRPG base. They learned it wasn't worth it. That's history. Now we're left with Monolith with Nintendo, Mistwalker disbanded, S-E insane, with only Namco publishing anything relatively decent these days. Oh, and Konami seems like a coward.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 7/30/2013 4:05:49 PM
Mirrors Edge.
Singularity
I completely disagree with Resistance 3. I thought it was an underpolished – The amount of technical issues I experienced was just not on for a release. I think part of the problem was due to the ending of R2. So they took this character, completely changed him to the point where he was unrecognizable. But the story itself was just dull, there was no intrigue it was just this is the object, go do it. Also the vareity of chimera was disappointing too. I had high hopes with the demo when I saw the hopping ones but that was about it other than the stereotypical 'brutes'. For me R3 brought the series down from an AAA aeries to dust. I'm not surprised we're not seeing a Resistance 4 anytime soon.
If I had to choose a game it would be NIER, The score is by far this generations best. The story is full of so many surpirses and has plenty of replay value. The characters are so memorable – I for one am glad the main character we got was a father figure as I think that works far better for the story than just being a sibling – Which is was the Japanese Audience had to put up with. The combat is very much an hack & slash game with JRPG statistics but it works really well.
Beyond that I would also like to mention Pandora's Tower/ The Last Story & Xenoblade: Chronicles. For anyone who is in misery for the lack of JRPG's we've had this gen, pick up a cheap Wii or Wii-U if you dare. Then buy these 3 games. They were released with a very limited supply and at the end of the consoles life so they're overlooked. But I have to say They offered some of the best gaming experiences I have had this gen.
The last game would be CATHERINE. It's very Japanese and a puzzle game. So that is a limited audience overseas. I do not own any puzzle games – But Catherine is a strong contender for my favourite game this gen. The structure of a laid-back social sim during the day and demanding puzzle game during the Night-mares works so well. The game also involves the player to make decisions and depending on the choices and the way you interact with people, there will be many different outcomes.
…there were zero technical issues in R3. Zero. And I have no idea what you were playing. There were twice as many types of Chimera as there were in either of the two previous games, the story actually had semblance of structure (in contrast to the last two, which were basically just shooters with a lame plot), and the weapons were by FAR the best of any shooter of the generation. There was also much, much better diversity in setting and gameplay situations, better boss encounters, and an overall better presentation.
Sounds to me like you were just desperately looking for something wrong, which didn't actually exist.
Im not saying some people didn't have technical issues, but I encountered not one while I played R3, not freezing, audio glitches, bugs etc.
I thought the story was great, it was more personal, and while there were some low points overall I think it was paced really well. It felt like an old school FPS to me, not this railshooter CoD crap rollercoaster ride where you can call every cheap thrill they are going to throw at you 20 minutes before it happens.
Anyway I agree with you on NIER, it is one of the best games this generation for a lot of reasons, and it gets better and more weird the more playthroughs you do.
I can't recall any technical issues either, and I played the entire game in coop (something that potentially could unveil additional issues).
I would not call the story "dull" either, it had fantastic potential and I *loved* this universe, it was just poorly executed imo. It started off so incredibly good, but soon drifted off into being "just a shooter" with various "theme parks". The story became just an excuse for action sequences – as so often is the case in games.
But as a shooter I thought it was great. Awesome weapons, great handling, it was a great shooter indeed. Not epic, but of 80+ quality? Most definitely. And thus I think more gamers should give that title a chance.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 12:14:51 PM
Resistance 3 wasn't the prettiest exclusive, but if it had any real problems they would have come up in the reviews (which were overwhelmingly positive.) The poor sales were due to other factors.
idk most of the games i've like sell pritty well. but i can't think of one off the to of my head of a game that i have that didn't sell well that i though sud have.
happy gaming =)
Your words make my brain hurt…
My gaming tastes are so depressingly mainstream that all the games I've enjoyed so far has sold good and fared well with the critics. 😀
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 5:14:38 AM
Now that I think about it I'd like to mention Resistance 3 as well. It really was a good shooter too many missed.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/30/2013 12:16:33 PM
Any chance you tried Enslaved? I found it surprisingly enjoyable.
Nope, never tried that one.