Ben-DutkaI think I may have stumbled upon the reason, the catalyst. It seems Square Enix has been living a lie.
After reading what Capcom said about Resident Evil , concerning the "two different sets of fans," it suddenly struck me: Square Enix thinks the same thing. They believe they have two sets of Final Fantasy followers, the old-school fans who have been around since the beginning of the franchise, and the new fans who jumped on board the bandwagon when Final Fantasy XIII came out. Obviously, it's this new set of followers Square Enix hopes to cater to with the upcoming Lightning Returns , which may not even qualify as an RPG anymore. Action/RPG at the outside.
But one critical thing, S-E: Those new fans don't exist .
You never got any. Those who weren't interested in FF before aren't interested now. You didn't garner any newcomers this generation; you really didn't. You didn't manage to tap the Call of Duty and general action fan base because in truth, FF still isn't anything like those games. You didn't bastardize the franchise enough; you didn't quite make them games the casual mainstream gamer – or the stereotypical Western gamer who only wants to play shooters – actually want to play. All you did is piss off the only group of fans you ever had, and you continue to ignore them will trying to satisfy this phantom new set of followers who, based on declining franchise sales, obviously don't exist.
The die-hard fans, like myself, bought FFXIII and FFXIII-2. There are still plenty of FF lovers out there who bought those titles because they adore the franchise and they still hold out hope. Very, very few people who didn't play FF before became fans of the series post-FFXIII. Or even post-FFXII, when the big changes started to happen. So essentially, Square Enix is trying to make a bunch of ghosts happy. While the only real fans get increasingly bitter. That's gotta be it. I figured it out. Not that S-E is going to do anything about it or recognize the error of their ways. I just wanted to say it.
Don't waste your breathe on them, there's no point since they already showed the fans nothing but disrespect! They don't want to work on Final Fantasy VII Remake because it is too hard! What about the Final Fantasy Versus XIII or Final Fantasy X HD or Kingdom Hearts III even! There isn't enough fans to justify turning your back on the loyal fans they had since the beginning and if Square-Ennix stays on the same track, it will take them all the way out of business! Now it is not about the fans anymore and it is all about what they want to do with Final Fantasy and what they say goes! Well, I Say Forget Final Fantasy and I just pray Sony grow a brain and take Final Fantasy VII and give to Bethesda for them to do the Remake the right way! Sony still has the rights of that game and if Microsoft can take Halo, by gosh Sony can take Final Fantasy VII and while they are at it they need to take Final Fantasy VI, Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy IX as well and they to take Final Fantasy X and make the HD remake on all of them! I believe Sony has the rights knowing they all are Playstation Exclusives!
Problem with your plan is that Square Enix published those games (well sony might have distributed it in one territory or something on a few of them but they didn't really publish it ) and Square Enix owns the rights not sony. (even if they are exclusive)
Oh and Microsoft didn't "take" Halo
Last edited by firesoul453 on 2/15/2013 1:24:07 AM
I was with you until "Bethesda".
Good company. Wrong genre.
Beth betta stay away from FF.
Lol,
Bethsedia making a ps3 only games.
Funny stuff
If they do what was mentioned the last post Sony will be on top again because they all would be open world!
This generation of popular japanese games such as Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, and perhaps even Silent hill have already begun to show the same signs. It seems they all want to cater to the western players. Well.. maybe not Silent Hill because Team Silent chose to abandon the game for whatever reason I don't know. Well yea and of course there's another horror game called Fatal Frame but it seems to me that it's become a Nintendo exclusive and they refuse to sell the game here anymore because it won't cater to the mainstream gamers probably.
The thing is they did, there are many people out there who like XIII or even started with XIII. As there are many people who look forward to this Lighting Returns game (Even if I am not one of them…). I will stick to my guns and say I enjoyed XIII, quite a lot even if there were flaws I was hooked for the full 110 hours of playing it.
But there is an undenibale fact that Final Fantasy is changing. This new title is more similar to the spin of of Final Fantasy VII – Crisis Core. I see no resemblance of an RPG at all in this game. The new action approach is not bad in itself. I have played games like Fable or Nier and really enjoyed them. But to change the monolith of RPG's Final Fantasy into an action game with RPG elements is very difficult to take as a long time fan. Other RPG's have still managed to maintain a true sense of an RPG, Xenoblade being one of the best JRPG's I have played within a decade. Bu this is the first Final Fantasy I am not excited for which is a really big deal for me. I will wait to see what happens with a Final Fantasy XV but if it does not improve I will probably convert to getting a Wii-U for this new Xeno title.
This thesis is basically borne out in the sales figures. Yes there are some weird folks who really liked FFXIII AS an FF title (not unlike those male fans of my-little-pony that confound reason) who have popped up on the Square Enix forums where good ideas go to die AND it's true they do love Lightning but all that is inside a small bubble.
Out here in the real world XIII sold on name, but still undersold FFX despite being on 2 consoles, XIII-2 sold more or less half of that number, and LRXIII-3 could be on track to sell half of THAT number.
So there's just no significant increase in fans by this horrifying new direction to justify continuing it. Time to take a queue from Ni No Kuni and return some traditional elements, or take a queue from past FFs and try for greatness.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 2/15/2013 4:49:48 AM
Thats what I'm hoping Ni no Kuni does. I'm hoping if nothing else it shows Square that a World map isn't impossible, towns are doable in HD, and that people actually want this kind of JRPG.
Even if some people think the combat is a departure from turn based combat, which no doubt it is, it still has enough overall tradition elements in the whole game to prove that classic JRPG styled games can still do well.
The further I get in NNK the more and more impressed I get, with the dungeons requiring you to do different things, heck in one your a frog. Now that dungeon puzzle is really simple the point is it is there and old JRPGs seemed to have more varied and fun stuff like that in it than they do now. FF7 snowboarding anyone?
1 thing i forgot to mention on the crapcom article, these publishers refuse to understand there loosing their old fans at a rapid rate!
they think they can drag them through the mud and they will always be there asking for more.
sorry guys, but that just aint happening!
might i advise you, for once take a break, and think about what your doing.
hell, crapcom you think there are people who want a action oriented RE right?
so they just want bang bang zombies?
than why not remove the RE title and call it bang bang zombies?
because you know the ONLY reason the RE franchise is still selling half decently is because fans are in denial and want to still believe one day you will turn around!
i REALLY hope revelations flies off the shelves, i hope it sells at least twice the copies RE6 has!
just to show crapcom there are no fans that want action titles, everyone has been wanting what weve been screaming for years!
and prove to developers the genre is still very much alive, and the drive and desire for it is as strong, no, way stronger than it ever was!
You really have a huge fixation on Square-Enix… -_-
You said the same thing back in October. You have a fixation with his fixation. Haha
As for me, I have a fixation on final fantasy. Can't help it. Always have… Always will. Too many epic years of gaming.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/15/2013 1:37:41 PM
He complains about them on an extremely regular fashion. At this point, it's not a fixation, it's an obsession.
Even if it were true (which it isn't. Every other major source has articles that are similar I'm regards to se too), why do you care?
I don't read every single article here. Why read something you don't care to read?
And why do YOU care what I think? You're always eager to lick his ass and jump to his defense every single time someone says something negative about what he writes.
Why do you care what I think? You are free to read other people's comments and ignore mine.
See? It works both ways. It is a ridiculous thing to suggest, but I'll let you think about why it is so.
Keep on lickin'.
Last edited by Hynad on 2/16/2013 5:37:04 AM
So they earn a handful of people who love lightning. But they lost pretty much ALL the fans who loved everything up until FF12.
Yeah seems like a fair trade off to me….
The man speaks the truth!!! All you have done this generation is alienate old school final fantasy fans with this bastardize version.
Please go back to turn based epics like final fantasy 7-10
I bought my little brother FFXIII to play. He liked it (for his first FF), and he's currently playing VII and plans to play the older titles.
What a terrible over generalization you've made, Ben.
Or you are the exception to the rule. :p
I did the same thing with one if my friends. He loves cod, AC, and God of war and gta.
Ffxiii was still too slow for him. In my case, Ben hit the nail on the head. And sales trends seem to reflect his sentiment also.
I think it's far worse to generalize based on one sole experience among millions of sales… Don't you?
Man, I've been reading this site for years, and generally it's great, but the constant Square-Enix bashing always make me think less of it.
Of course there are new FF fans. Read up on other sites and you'll see all kinds of people who were introduced through 13+. It's intellectually dishonest to claim otherwise.
In elementary school I used to spend hours every weekend playing and replaying FF1 on my NES, and I only got more obsessed with it over time, obviously owning them all. So I've grown up with it as much as anybody else.
But I don't see the need to keep beating this dead horse. The new games are not the best of the best. We all know that. But they're not that bad either. Regardless of how bad you think they are, the hard truth is that people either need to adapt or let go, because the games you grew up with are a thing of the past.
Sometimes I feel like my lack of interest in nostalgia is like a super power, because it opens up the world to so many new experiences. I see gamers everywhere constantly bitching about how games don't measure up to their expectations because they're different from what they used to be, rather than embracing change and learning to like something new.
Over the years I've seen Ben make all kinds of posts about gamers being too whiny and entitled, and I wholeheartedly agree. Then I see the weekly fanboyish rant about how SE sucks and I think "What the hell?"
I don't know. I know this will ruffle a lot of feathers, but I just feel like these redundant, heavily biased posts sometimes make the site seem unprofessional and out of touch.
Sorry for the rant. Carry on. Oh, and just to make sure everybody really hates me, if I ranked an honest top 5 FF games of all time for myself, at least one of the XIII games would make the list.
I'm not sure you read as often as you say you do. Ben writes more defense of ffxiii articles than attacks. Not once will you find him saying either of the two xiii titles are bad. In fact, he regularly says they're good. His beef us that in making a good game, they destroy another. Just a little objectivity for ya. And I challenge you to show me these weekly SE bashing editorials. I come to this site bi-daily at a minimum.I bet there's only a few in a year. Just saying…
I don't care if people dislike an editorial. I don't agree all the time either. But lets keep the truth at hand, hmm?
Last edited by Underdog15 on 2/15/2013 3:26:16 PM
The nicest it could be read is that out of any other gamers who were already aware of the Final Fantasy series yet had no interest, didn't even get hooked on XIII, and those that did are in the minority. Otherwise, I have no other translation of the supposed over-generalization.
Just remember that most of the editorial/articles are written in a way to give the average reader/lurker an impulse to respond whether to agree or disagree, so it may or may not accurately portray the writer's full opinion.
Last edited by VampDeLeon on 2/15/2013 6:09:34 PM
In my opinion I loved Nier a lot more than FFXIII and think the real tragedy is that Square Enix shoved all those resources into a FF sequel (and another) when they weren't really needed and ignored fresh new titles like Nier that could have done with an extra layer of polish.
Playing it safe in my opinion. Lightening is generic and boring. Give me a sexy swearing hermaphrodite dressed in her nightie anyday!
Actually, they did. Combined with the purchase of Eidos (which turned out to be a great move, considering DE: HR, Sleeping Dogs, Tomb Raider and Hitman: Absolution), FFXIII is much appreciated to a few that aren't familiar with Final Fantasy as a franchise. However, the sacrifice in trade is not even slightly worth it; alienating their HUGE original fanbase is probably the stupidest thing I've ever seen a video-game related company do – it's as if someone was purposely working on the inside to drive Square to the ground and humiliate them.
I liked XIII, and the battle system still has a turn based DNA in it's core. I dislike XIII-2 because they ruined the story of XIII. And yes, most of the sales of XIII is based on the name but a half of them enjoyed it for them to buy the sequel. I also did enjoyed Resident Evil 5 and I'm looking forward to playing Resident Evil 6 when the Gold Edition or something like that arrives. Maybe I'm a wierdo but it's ok, I'm a Slipknot fan but I still appreciates Norah Jones music, got her first CD before it even was nominated and won the Grammy, so what if I don't have a MYTHICAL HIGH STANDARD for what makes a game great. F*ck it, I'll just play what the hell I want. For the record, I loved XIII, and hated XIII-2. I also love Dead Space 2 and still gonna play Dead Space 3. I also loved Resident Evil 5 and still gonna play Resident Evil 6. I'm gonna trust my instinct. And by the way, I do whine sometimes, for ex: I really hated Enslaved, what a piece of crap, at least I have the decency to bashed a game after I'm done playing it, and yes my instinct failed me that time. And I do hate when people blames gun or making you feel like having a gun for a hobby, passion, self defense or sport is a big sin and it should never exist. Okay rant over.
Lol way to ADHD your way through that post. ;p
I skipped my pills when I wrote the rant.
At this point a developer outside of SE's internal studios (and maybe outside of Japan) could probably produce a better "traditional" Final Fantasy than SE could and do it in half the time or less while still having the "pretty graphics" and FMV Square has been hung up on since the series moved to the Playstation.
The company just isn't ever going to get it right with Enix around… I want Squaresoft back!