Ben-DutkaBioWare's attempt at appeasing enraged fans arrives this week; it's the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut DLC, designed to address the ending(s) problems so many fans attacked earlier this year.
In speaking to OXM , BioWare executive producer Casey Hudson acknowledged that even this effort "won't satisfy everyone," as he admitted that there was some feedback they just couldn't address. For instance, some wanted the team to outright reject the entire concept of the endings and start from scratch, which wouldn't be possible. But Hudson was clear about the team's dedication to their fans:
" Ultimately our passion is entertaining people, so delighting them with our stories and giving them amazing worlds to escape to, that's what we love to do, so in this medium it just wouldn't make sense for us to make some kind of artistic statement, and then turn our backs on it forever…
When things are really constructive like that, even when it's critical, it means a lot to us, because when you think about the artists and writers, all the people here – they work because they're passionate about games. They're passionate about making a really great experience for players. So when they get constructive feedback, constructive criticism, they're really excited about that."
And despite all that, Hudson knows the Extended Cut will only spark new arguments and discussions, and not all of it will be praising BioWare. Now, I've made my stance plain in the past: I do not and have never had a problem with gamers speaking their minds, especially the ardent fans that are essentially the lifeblood of this industry. I do have a problem with the way many such fans went about expressing their displeasure with ME3.
BioWare has essentially done something we've never really seen before outside of MMOs and games that revolve around multiplayer (as they are continually updated and patched): They've delivered what may be a major piece of extra content to actually change and/or expand upon previously existing, somewhat linear stories. That alone, almost regardless of how it turns out, should earn the developer at least some modicum of appreciation and respect. At the very least.
Many have asked me how I would've responded if this had happened with my favorite series, Final Fantasy . My answer from the start has been the same- I would've been annoyed, I would've made that irritation clear, and at the same time, I would've been just as embarrassed at my fellow fans for freaking out in such a hostile, childish fashion. And if Square Enix did something like the Extended Cut to address fan backlash…? Holy crap, I'd probably send them a personal thank you letter for listening. How's about some BioWare fans consider doing that?
i still think this is ridiculous. I respect what they're doing by trying to cater to the fans but whats the point. I think they should've said this is the game. WYSIWYG!!!! If this form of entertainment is ever supposed to be considered "Art" then the developers should be able to have all the creative freedom they want. This is just going to make it to where gamers will be able to complain about anything and get what they want. One more thing to contribute to the ridiculous amount of entitlement these so called gamers have. Or just people in general. I don't think they should've done this and i think they might be shooting themselves in the foot in the long run. Shame on you Bioware, Shame on you….
They told fans that all of their decisions and choices through 3 games would dictate an ending suited to their personal adventure and didn't even remotely deliver on that statement. It isn't about gamers not being happy with the direction the game took, it's about a lie that created false high expectations for the conclusion.
Not to mention the game was marketed and sold on that lie.
Wow they are being kind by lumping it ALL into "constructive criticism". Glad they did this but I feel bad for folks who already finished the game (ME games are kind of huge to go through again). I'll feel much better now when I play it even though the biggest part of the ending(s) was already spoiled by a bad man on this site.
Thank god i didnt see that comment, i justed started playin the game again but debating if i should wait for this "new ending". Idk whats the deal with the first ending since i havent finished the game yet. Hopefully it wasnt that bad.
Yeah, I quit playing the game as soon as they announced they would be doing this. It burns my behind not to play it but Im glad I did.
Heres hoping they fixed it where it needed to be fixed so gamers can actually focus on the important part of this whole equation, the game. Its an awesome game and it deserves to be praised.
The ending wasn't bad… Just left some to be desired. I feel like I shouldn't say anymore because you havnt finished it.
Besides the big spoiler all I know is it didn't follow up with what happens to the ensemble cast for crap. It's kind of important to me what happens to them so I'm looking forward to it once I get some more backlog behind me.
… Well I have stated my opinion on this already I think it has been an appalling act from the fans from the beginning. I hope other developers don't begin to get penalized by 'fans'. This sort of makes be feel ashamed to be part of the gaming community, it really does.
And no,Final Fantasy is fine as it is. I for one thought XIII had fantastic character development. Which was a miracle after XII. & I like the new battle system, it's like a better version of X-2's which was the only good thing about that game… If fans of FF start campaigning against S-E will will certainly not follow them.
Well said.
FFX-2's battle system really was fantastic. But any parallels between that system and FFXIII's is a big stretch.
By that I meant that the Dress-sphere system is pretty much the same as the Paradigm system in XIII. That's where the similarities end but it is the core of both battle systems.
Well, they're sort of similar I guess at a very basic level, like if you were explaining them to a friend in passing. But I think we would both agree they don't behave the same way nor is FFXIII as diverse.
I don't know I spend most of X-2 in the same roles. XIII's system demanded me to really pay attention to the battle as it was more about being in the right Paradigm than what specific attack you chose. I found the battle system to be fast and tense, I personally think they did a good job. At least it strayed away from XII's MMO approach o.0
Nah, you were directly involved in the battles in X-2, in XIII and XIII-2 you just shift paradigms to fit the situation, the same tactic works on everybody, and it's mostly automatic.
Just think about how often this happens. There is always that one "special" case once in a while that sets it apart from everything usual, and this might be that case.
To me, this is surely not the sign that gamers in the future will continue on with demands like this. I think gamers has as much common sense as any other people, whether it'd be movie buffers or theatrical goers. Instead I look at this as developers in the future, to be careful on what they "promise" and "market" to the fans and gamers that play it.
ehh… say what you want. It's still ridiculous that they bowed down to everyone because of the backlash. The thing is the ME games are some of the best this generation. Regardless of the ending or whatever, they're still great games. Not a whole lot needed to be fixed. I could understand if it totally made the experience horrible and basically made the game broken but it didn't. It was still almost a perfect game. Almost… The fact that there was so much backlash to begin with it retarded and really gamers shouldn't be rewarded for their crying. I'm sure people will hate what i'm saying but i really don't care. The games were great!!! People just want their cake and to eat it too. I'm sorry but if i spent a couple weeks, months , years or decades working on something and putting my all into just to have to do it different again, i'd be livid and would probably start looking for a new studio. Just because people are upset about something doesn't mean they should be given in to. I mean really it's a $60 game. Play it and be done with it. Move the F*** on.
Some people, especially in this generation, have a profoundly overdeveloped sense of entitlement. They DESERVE to have EVERYTHING exactly the way they want it, including art made by someone else. Respectfully saying you found the ending lacking is one thing — crying bloody murder and filing complaints with the FTC (?!) is pathetic and makes me embarrassed to be a gamer.
Not sure I agree with you guys 100%. I kinda liked ME, but not a huge fan or anything. I couldn't care too much less about the extended cut and would be perfectly happy with the original ending offered.
However, I do understand why fans would be mad if they are promised one thing and it simply didn't exist. I get that and people should be allowed to complain. If they made an artistic decision and remained within the self-established boundaries of their advertisements, fine. But to essentially lie about what is offered is a small offense to consumers and they should be called out on it.
Mind you, a majority of gamers, or at least a majority of what we all heard, were way out of line and downright annoying about it. But the people who complained civilly had a right to do so.
you gotta understand how terrible the ending was though, especially compared to ME2. It felt rushed and out of place. The best comparison that I can give is how angry everyone was with Fallout 3's ending, you know the whole
"SPOILER WARNING"
having to die, and Fawks refusing to do it even though it wouldn't kill him. They fixed that with DLC and everybody praised them for it, only difference is they presented it as expanding the game not fixing it
@Underdog, fair enough. I get why people would be mad with those expectations too. That's why I personally think people had a lot overblown expectations about what exactly the trilogy's final moments were going to provide, and did not realize that their expectations were being met throughout their Mass Effect 3 playthrough. Here's what I mean by that:
I think the most outraged fans didn't perceive the entire game as a giant, 30-hour ending that most certainly reflected ALL of the choices you had been making throughout the trilogy. That's too bad — during my playthrough, I saw the results of hundreds of decisions I had made on matters enormous and tiny. Characters from Mass Effect 1 came up to me and asked if I remembered doing such and such a thing all those years ago, and they would explain the results of those actions in the present. A species I had saved from extinction made an appearance. This "ending" –the entirety of Mass Effect 3, in other words — was EXTREMELY personalized, and reflected every choice I had made throughout the series.
While you get to make hundreds of decisions in the ME games, never in mass effect games are you ever presented with more than a small handful of choices for any scenario. When you look at Mass Effect's "decision" branches, you almost always get to choose between options A, B, or C. (Once/if you develop a really high renegade or paragon score, you sometimes also get a choice D.) The games are great at building a sense of control by giving you three or four options over and over and over again, be they in minor conversations or major plot developments. That adds depth to the games, and it's why I and many others like these games so much. I'm not sure why people thought that would translate into dozens or even hundreds of customized ending SCENES. Again, your choices are reflected throughout the final game. Just because they are not reflected in the closing cinematic does not mean the game did not reflect those choices.
The entire series could be seen as a whole lot of "red, blue or green?" choices that, cumulatively, gave your journey a very unique and personalized feel. The final scenario was a representation of that system. and I think taken in context with the "Long Farewell" that is the entirety of Mass Effect 3, the "ending" — the game of Mass Effect 3 — was quite excellent, a highly personalized account of the many choices I had made and continued to make up until that last choice.
End rant 🙂
telly thing is no matter what you picked in ME1 the race is back in ME3
and no matter what you picked in ME2 TIM has the parts in ME3
and no matter what you tell them in ME2 the Fleet still starts a war
(trying to to give spolers)
(that was trying NOT to give) dam edit key is missing
I'm looking forward to this. Great excuse to go back and visit this game and series, which I thoroughly enjoyed. I have some strong suspicions about what was being suggested in the original ending(s), and I'll be interested to see if I was on or off the mark.
The one thing I hope we DON'T see is some long-winded, Matrix Architect-esque conversation where like two characters have to stand around just explaining everything in explicit, mind-numbing detail to appease weirdos who want ZERO mystery or ambiguity about anything they play/watch/read/etc. But you won't see me sh*t a brick either way, Scout's Honor 🙂
Well I for one was not that upset at the edgings. I could see where they were going with it. But it will be good to see more emphasis on the conclusion. So I'm pretty excited about that.
I don’t agree with Bioware appeasing their fans. This sets a bad precedence that I hope doesn’t continue. While I thought Bioware didn’t deliver what they said they would. I was still very happy with ME3. You have to understand that this isn’t the end of ME. There will be another game. So Bioware and EA had to do some damage control to try and keep their fan base intact so they could have high sales on the next ME game. There is no way a money hungry company like EA is going to allow Bioware to do this unless they would get something out of it later on down the road. It’s all about money. I for one will be downloading the new ending. I don’t know when I will be able to enjoy it however. Perhaps at some point in the future. ME is a fantastic franchise and I hope they do better on the next installment for the other fans that didn't enjoy ME3.
I just LOVE how all of you forgot about fallout 3
you know were they RE-did the ending …..
the fact is that before the game came out there was all the talk about how there was many endings
that you cant say you had ending A, B, or C
ya you can just say you had red, blue, or green
then add the fact the ending is a COPY of the ending from Deus Ex
And it also has more plot holes then Swiss in the last 10 min
you know what really bugs me thou is how this story has every one on the attack
fans attacking BW for letting them down
websites attacking fans for complaining
AND fans attacking fans
Last edited by oldmike on 6/25/2012 12:25:08 PM
Fallout 3's ending sucked balls, but the game had almost no story so it wasn't a big problem where Mass Effect has a BIG story with a lot of carefully constructed characters.
"BioWare has listened and tried, so dont act like children"
This.
Whats the bet that even when this ending hits you will still get masses of sad little boycott groups throwing tantrums & hurling abuse.
How Pa-the-tic
Not many devs would go through the troubles of doing something like this to appease fanbase crocodile tears, especially for free as well. Be greatful they even bothered in the first place after such cringe-worthy, arse-pain reactions.
I think it's wiser to just not be surprised by the lowest common denominator of the human race. It's easier to resort to a basic survivalist instinct of complaining and finding fault in something that isn't your own.
Of course people are still going to complain without acknowledging the work they went through. Sure it's silly or pathetic or whatever, but it's the way it is. And since it's a behavior a majority of the human race employs, it's best to just move along.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/25/2012 1:44:20 PM
Well telling players not to act like children… thats one way to antagonize and get a response. Sounds a bit… childish.
Anyway, I will not get in to the whole games are art debate, aspects of it are. BUT I agree that Biowares attempt to alleviate frustration or disappointment of players can be a noble gesture on their part as well as a prudent financial move. There will be other games and they do not want to lose fans or potential buyers.
That said I have not played ME3, loved ME1 and 2, and will wait for it to get real cheap or possible but unlikely GOTY edition. i DO believe they should not have bothered with the extra content to appease fans since for me when a game is completed by a dev… thats it. If and I say if they made a BOO BOO then work it out in the next game whether its with the same characters or not. You DO NOT go back and try to fix it, move forward and learn. The next game will hopefully be better.
The extra content should and will be appreciated by fans, so lets see what Bioware has in mind for the next games, in a year or two.
Keep Playing!
If they're going to act like children, they should be treated like children.
My University's art department doesn't recognize 3D graphics as art. Crazy butt faces!
Temjin, that makes no sense at all. People need to get with the times. Leonardo Da vinci would totally be doing 3D graphics.
yea, it's pretty nuts. My 3D graphics teacher likes to make jokes with that. Having taken one course from the art department I sort of see why they take that stance, I think. Bascially, the gestural, impressionistic, marks made only by a human, on various surface types without some mathmatical calculated interface serving as an intrepter, seems to hold itself with high regard amongst the art heads. They're not into recreating photo realistic stuff or doing things with a whole lot of precision. It's all this emotive crap. I don't know if this is a defense mechanism of the art department, not wanting to be taken over by electronics, with painting and craft mediums being pushed aside and loosing funding etc. There's this very stand off'ish vibe I feel from it all. I don't know. I think the term art has pretty arbitrary meaning if you ask me. I think something like these Journey games sort of show an artistic core beneath all of the calculated engineering that exists beneath the shell.
It's kind of like when photography was new the painters all said that it couldn't be considered an art because it's just a snapshot of real life but it took a "real" artist to capture life on canvas. Definitely a defense mechanism from long time artists used to a particular medium. I see why it's said, but history is not going to be on their side. Very few could play Journey and not call it art imo.
I just get this feeling this whole backlash might be the cause of them purposely making the ending vague, so whatever plan they have for future DLC would be suitable. Now that all this has happened, we'll never know. I've never played the series, but haven't they released DLCs that were integral to the story in past ME games?
Perhaps, gamers spoke too soon, but then again, paying for an important extension/ending is bit wack and a practice that should never be exercised. Of course, this is all if the assumption that they had future plans for DLC rings true.
Mass Effect could never become playable for me…
The whole game could have done with another year of development. It wasn't just the ending that needed more thought.
I strongly dislike when people who haven't played at least 2 Mass Effect games feel the need to complain about how us fans were out of line for demanding a new ending. You guys don't know what we've been through. To play 3 games where the theme of it is "Decisions". I'm talking 30 hours per game, 90 Hours. Over 3 days of hard choices in these games, only to have the ending of the trilogy not take note to all the hard work we put in the first 2 games. Seriously, if you are NOT a mass effect fan, don't bother to comment if it's to tell us that we are in the wrong. If anything, we showed that our complaints and criticism really does matter.
i dunno about that.
listened yea, but tried?
well if you can say hey this guy has had his arm chopped off so ill fix it by putting a band aid on it trying than yea.
just seems like a lazy quick job to me!
i want nothing to do with bioware any more!
they pissed off their fans by f*cking dragon age 2.
then they pissed off their fans with the buggy a$$ port of ME2 for ps3.
than they pissed off their fans with the buggy a$$ port of ME3 for ps3, and pissing them off for the lazy lesser sequel.
so many times they have f*cked us, and so many times we have forgiven them.
no more!
bioware can take ME, and all their franchises current and future, for that matter, and shove them where the sun dont shine!
at least that way they cant hurt their fans any more!
Before lecturing others for being children I would remind Ben that as recently as last January Casey Hudson told Game Informer that "This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings are a lot different for players. At this point we are taking into account so many decisions that you've made as a player and are reflecting a lot oh those players chioces in the endings. That's what you call a big fat lie.
The FF questions directed at Ben are well deserved considering the amount of articles that he has created taking shots at FF and Square. He's taken shots at both Square and FF even long after the series popularity dropped substantially and gamers moved on to bigger things. Square is dead, Square has been taken over by pod people, a monkey could make better choices than Square with FF series. That's only the tip of the iceberg and those comments are enough to fill a children's book themselves. Maybe even a pop up book with pod people and monkey's. Those comments are childish too and really raise the bar. Here is the real kicker. Fewer and fewer even care. Square and FF's glory days were in the PS1 and PS2 era. So why has so much space been waisted here on a fanbase that has been almost wiped out? Somebody should take long look in the mirror before lecturing any gamer about being passionate about series they care about. At least the bulk of gamers who complain these days talk about games that are actually relevant instead of dwelling on a games whose fanbases have moved on. Embarrassed at fan reactions? How about being embarassed at your own reactions to what you said are good games? So much time and space wasted here on the FF games and Square like the are the only JRPG making company in existence and the FF games are complete disasters.
It's not like Square is thre only Japanese company that has has drop in quality this gen. Japan takes an eternity to make games and even when they do their quality has suffered. Capcom's alienated a ton of gamers this generation too.
At least the Mass Effect fans contained their complaints to small section of a game and that game actually has a passionate and relevant fanbase. I saw a ME3 review on a major gaming website that had 1,086 comments while FF13-2's had 36.
I'm really sick of you attacking me. I really am. I never wrote such hostile, inflammatory articles about Square Enix or Final Fantasy. Not ever. That's a goddamn lie. Not to the extent of what we saw with ME3, and certainly not to the entitlement extent, as I never demanded a damn thing.
So much space? Two articles in 2012 have talked about Square Enix and Final Fantasy. Two at PSXE that were editorials. Out of about seven hundred. TWO. And neither could in any way be considered hostile or childish.
And of course, because you're clueless about JRPGs, they're irrelevant to you and everyone else, so that's a "point" you're making. You cite the comments section for a review? Want to see what happens if a FFVII remake thread is made in basically ANY forum online and compare that to ME3? THEN you want to compare the number of posts?
Here's what- SHUT UP. I suggest taking a break from posting if you can't make one without personally attacking me. You get that? If not, please do try again so I can get rid of you for good.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 6/26/2012 3:49:25 PM
Same right bacl at you. You started with a personal dig with the other day on the MGS5 thread when I bet ny house MGS5 would be multiplat same day for logical reasons only to get "the only reason you think that is you think Sony's going bankrupt tomorrow. I pointed out that made no sense only to have you drag in a post from another thread calling it retarded.
Awhile ago I promised to stop any personal attacks if you returned the favor and I kept my word. You broke the truce and damn straight I was p!ssed. You got a problem with what I say in a past thread and drag it into another unrelated thread calling it retarded is a personal attack is crossing the line in that MGS5 thread. I know you cpuldn't help yourelf.
This argument isn's fair and I'm not clueless about JRPGs either. I played the popular Jrpg's and my PS3 has FF7, FF8, Legend of the Dragoon, Xenogears, Parasite Eve 1 and 2 on it. I've played countless JRPG on the PS2, and the slim pickings on the PS3. Hello that's called a dwindling JRPG base. You brought up FF in your article above. Bioware fans have a reaction to a small section of a game and they are children while another fan carries on for ages against Square and FF. Imagine how you would feel if you were told not to act like child and grow up.
Go ahead and Ban me. You've threatened it before but you know I really don't deserve that. I snapped at your personal attack. I just couldn't help myself. You had every bit of that coming by my book. Now, that's a book I'll close and refrain from personal attacks. I will make posts not attacking you if you don't make posts attacking me first. That includes snide back handed digs too. Sounds fair to me. No snide digs from me either. Now, let's see who gets a personal dig in first. It won't be me and I've proven I can stop that behavior for long periods of time. I can't make that promise that if I get attacked by you first though. I will respond. Might as well ban me if you can't take the higher road I'm offering to take with you. No digs, no jabs, no personal attacks will ever be seen ny me again if you can extend the same courtesy. If you can't just ban me. You'll lesson the community because I do have at 9 fans but you do what you feel you have to. I don;t want to argue with the administrator that can attack but withstand an attack back.
Now, to help expand on this truce I would even go as far to never mention your name again. It would be nice if some day we can respectully exchange remarks but you've gotten in enough digs to p!ss me off for now so let's just let things cool off, Shutting Up would help both sides for now.
Saying you think Sony is going bankrupt is not a personal attack.
If you think it is, you may as well get lost. Every last one of your posts in the past few months has either attacked me or bashed Sony. That's it. You're not capable of posting anything else.
So get out.
Dutka, I really don't like how you handle criticism on the comments. What is it about Mass Effect that brings out the worse in you? Its just a game, and if the baby's that criticize the ending say something different you start attacking them.
And I quote:
"If they're going to act like children, they should be treated like children."
"Here's what- SHUT UP. I suggest taking a break from posting if you can't make one without personally attacking me. You get that? If not, please do try again so I can get rid of you for good."
I have to side with Excelcior1 on this. He never attacked you, he just stated how he felt about your work as an editor. Is he not allowed to do that? Can he not talk about you ever?
You can be a real heel when it comes to talking,(especially about this game)and you show it my being smarmy and talk down to everyone who disagrees with you.
I thought the whole point of this website, was to release unbiased news about video games, and let the readers decide for them selves what they think is good or bad in a game and talk about it without being flamed by an Admin who hates people for their thoughts on the matter.
I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I think you should just kind of lighten up, and not be so extreme with your posts.
Personally, I don't think you really have what it takes to review/criticize/spread news, if you cant leave people with their opinions.
your an Administrator, so I think you should start acting like one.
And here I've been recieving the psxe newsletter for several months and I've always enjoyed the peoples opinions on this site. However, this whole fiasco concerning mass effect 3 has finally given me the urge to comment. I don't care about the ending of 3 or it's extended cut. The game was a hollowed out version of 2 it lacked any real choices at all. They were mostly a and b choices. The game was also very linear compared to the previous entries. I never finished the game. I don't care to know what happens either. They messed that entire game up. It's no. About fans feeling "entitled" it's about ordering the extreme BLT and getting a shit sandwich instead