Ben-DutkaThere's only one thing I can say after reading Nicalis founder Tyrone Rodriguez's comments concerning Metal Gear creator Hideo Kojima.
Out of bounds.
Not only is it an asinine thing to say, you haven't earned the right to say it. Who are you again? I cover the news every day and I never heard your name before that, nor have I had much desire to play any of the games with which you've been involved. You earn your way in any professional field, my friend, and while I'm sure you're proud of your accomplishments thus far and have bigger ambitions and aspirations for the future, you are not in a position to go after one of the most respected men in the history of this industry. Just no.
First of all, let me make this clear- It's certainly true that older MGS titles didn't boast perfect control (I was the first to advocate Splinter Cell over MGS for a more fluid and accessible control mechanic), but it was much better in MGS4. Secondly, it's also true that the storytelling needs to be upgraded in terms of writing and pacing. They just never knew when to end a scene in MGS4, for instance. But if we are to compare the MGS stories to other games (not movies or books; that's an illogical comparison), you will not find many productions that can attest to that level of storytelling quality.
So in some respects, Rodriguez had a point. That point isn't necessarily my issue; it's the way it was said that annoys me. Kojima should "stop making games" and focus on "making bad movies?" Are you kidding me? That's not constructive criticism, that's outright bashing and painfully ignorant to boot. You're going to kick this guy out? Quite possibly one of the last few Japanese designers that seem capable of blowing us away here in the West? And even if we step away from the quality of his games for a minute, as this is entertainment , we must always consider the joy those titles have brought to millions. That counts for nothing, I suppose.
I have heard decent, worthwhile criticism by developers, leveled at other developers. This doesn't qualify. This is just a former reviewer voicing his obvious bias and trying to make it sound like he's an authority on the subject. Now, I'm willing to bet that given a second chance, Rodriguez would probably want to reword his comment because I refuse to believe he actually agrees with the way it sounds. And if he does…well, you can't help stupid. But I don't believe that, I really don't; I think he wants to restate. And if he does, I strongly suggest he take advantage and do so, because there are quite a few ticked-off MGS fans out there right now.
And again, the bottom line is that you have not earned the right to go out on such a bold limb. Oh no, you really haven't. Nobody is above feedback and criticism and Kojima would be the first to tell you that he values a gamer voice. Still, this is, in every way, shape and form, out…of…bounds.
He probably needs the attention to whatever it is he's doing right now. After all, who is he? Opinions delivered well are on thing, but outright bashing is another. Give us something that'll be better than the MGS games and maybe we'll talk. But for now, he best keep his hate to himself.
Amen Ben, Amen!
BTW, I just re-tweeted this article so No-name Nicalis can wallow in the soon to be out-pouring of comments against him there too.
Well said.
I agree, this guy is a nobody and doesn't have the right to criticize a gaming institution like Kojima. I'm sure his little company will crumble now.
Methinks no one is denying anyone the right to make constructive criticism. Saying Kojima should just make "bad movies" doesn't fall into that category, though. If the guy didn't like a game from 4 years ago, fine. Let's see if he can make one as good in a lifetime.
This is of those double facepalm moments. His comment is just as stupid as the time my friend tried to claim Incubus was a better band than Radiohead. He new better, he was just in a weird mood and wanted to shock everyone at the table. I see this as no different.
Basically he's trolling.
He's from IGN. What did you guys expect?
@Doppel.
LOL, good point.
This reminds me of a playstation podcast IGN did last year. They had just updated their "Top 25 PS3 Games" list, and MGS4 was at #18 (i think).
The hosts of the podcast where getting angry fan mail for placing it so low on the list (mainly because the game scored a 10, and was much higher on the list previously), they where giving excuses like "We didn't review the game" and "MGS4 is for fans, and newcomers can't understand the plot".
I got the impression that they where trying to backpedal the perfect 10 that was given to MGS4 by the site.
Last edited by Fox hounder on 3/29/2012 1:13:16 AM
@Fox: "MGS4 is for fans, and newcomers can't understand the plot" – that is the truth though. The ps3 was my first console so obviously I didn't know the earlier MGS titles. And to me the MGS4 game above all felt more or less like crashing a party I were not invited to.
To launch a sequel on a new hardware platform without giving the player a chance whatsoever to catch up on the story is a pretty strange decision to make.
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/29/2012 3:01:54 AM
Incubus doesn't stand a chance against Radiohead! It's almost a fact!
@Beamboom
MGS4 did a pretty good job with dialogue and the cut scenes to relay the history pretty well. Also, they gave some flash back sequences and MGS downloadable database as well. Although I understand where you're coming from.
I think those sequences were more meant as reminders for those who had already played the earlier games, Slugga.
Picture yourself in my shoes: When I started playing my only relation to the main character with the porn moustache were that it felt kinda uncool to play an old, sick man about to die. And from then on I had to assume and speculate and fill in the gaps in the story as I progressed.
The game really were not kind to a new player at all.
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/29/2012 11:26:59 AM
@Jawkness LOL! Wow, Incubus over Radiohead. Literally laughed out loud at that one.
@beamboom
Actually, konami released the MGS database on PSN for free, it did a decent job of filling in the blanks.
The problem with IGN's argument (more specifically the staff who did the top 25) is that MGS4 is a sequel, the forth in the series, of course newcomers aren't going to be able to follow the story.
Its funny that the story wasn't an issue in previous Top 25 lists (it was at the very least always in the top 10). Some of IGN's editors lack consistency.
Last edited by Fox hounder on 3/29/2012 11:34:30 AM
@telly, yea…none of us could believe it. It was a strange comment from him. I seriously think he was just trying to be a troll. He's a fantastic guitar player. He should know better. Haha
@Beam, not strange. It forced me to replay the old titles and play MGS3 for the first time. I suspect the PS2 MGS Box set saw a sales spike after 4 was released. Keep in mind, most people who played the previous MGS games were Playstation fans. So it made sense to release the 4th entry on new Playstation hardware.
Last edited by Jawknee on 3/29/2012 11:58:11 AM
But of course, Jawk. I don't refer to those who owned a ps2.
What I find strange is that those whom the PS3 were their first console were left completely out in the cold in this game. THAT's what I found to be a strange decision.
Since MGS4 were released on a spanking new platform it should be pretty obvious there would be plenty of gamers who had no way of playing the earlier releases in the series, and didn't know MGS from before. It just didn't take us into consideration at all.
And I believe that is what IGN points out, and I believe they are absolutely right in doing so.
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/29/2012 2:23:36 PM
The game wasn't made for them. It was made for the fans of MGS. Which worked out just fine for Konami as the game sold over 5 million copies.
Because the game was made for a certain demographic, that doesn't mean Kojima is a bad game maker. The comments were over the top and extreme to the max. I understand your complaints, but his loudmouth was just trying to grab headlines by attacking one of gamings greatest designers.
Last edited by Jawknee on 3/29/2012 2:35:14 PM
@Beamboom.
Yes, but why wasn't that a problem for IGN (more specifically greg miller) in 2008 & 2009 when they placed it at #1? or even when it was in the top 10 in 2010? MGS4 last year got beat out by games it was ahead of in previous years.
Inconsistency.
Last edited by Fox hounder on 3/29/2012 2:37:15 PM
Fox: Well, your guess is as good as mine, but there may be several reasons for that. First of all, MGS4 were released very early. Just like GTA4 I seriously doubt that MGS4 would have received the same metascore had it been released a couple of years later. And please note, I am a big GTA fan and still I'd call GTA4 clearly overrated.
Secondly, IGN is a large company. Probably the one who reviewed MGS4 back then were a huge MGS fan and were totally into the Playstation world, therefore was unable to see this issue. You can be pretty sure that there is a certain turnover of staff during a year. And obviously not every new employee is required to agree with all that is published on IGN up until then.
I'm pretty sure that internally IGN discuss a lot about current and earlier reviews and ratings. I'm even sure that in such a small site as PSX Ben do not agree in every review that's published on this site. He might not even agree with all of his OWN reviews, in retrospective.
I know I don't agree with everything I have written over the years…
Last edited by Beamboom on 3/30/2012 5:42:01 AM
Never played his games, don't think I will anyway.
Now now, he just spoke his mind. We should respect him because he spoke his mind. We shouldn't judge his games without playing because he spoke his mind.
That guy made one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on the Internet and that is saying something. His "opinion" deserves nothing but scorn and ridicule.
lol I know and totally don't like the guy. Clamedeus here was telling me the same when Jaffe made that dumb comment so giving him a taste of his own medicine.
Yeah, and I was wrong with what I said, I misunderstood what Jaffe was trying to say. It takes a bigger man to know when he was wrong about something, no need to throw something back into my face because of it.
I also agreed and disagreed with Jaffe about it.
What I said wasn't because of him bashing MGS, I don't think his games are very appealing in my opinion, he can bash MGS all he wants, I don't care more power to him, he can speak his mind.
And to get this straightened out about me agreeing and disagreeing about what Jaffe said is, that I agree that we need more fun game play mechanics, and that I disagree about him saying games can't portray a good story in video games, which you can.
So there isn't any confusion.
Nicalis?
Sounds like another piss-poor developer desperately clamoring for attention.
I have a lot of respect for the efforts of the Indie game developers, but the attention now focused on you, sir, should be relocated to another, more deserving developer.
He wanted to get noticed, and the easiest way was to criticize one of gaming's biggest developers.
But all he really did was make himself look like a jackass.
good article and idiotic stupidity at its most blatant way.
Kojima is an artistic genius and his MGS series has the greatest and most sophisticated story ever told in video gaming, just use a very simple example, imo, the main theme music of MGS can replace the national anthem as it is just that patriotic, rest is trivial and irrelevant like this lousy noise, period.
every time I talk about Kojima, I can't do nothing else but give my highest salute to this guy.
Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 3/29/2012 1:46:12 AM
So who is this Nicalis chap? I've never heard of him. I'm not being a smart prick either, i genuinly have never heard of the man nor does his name ring any bells. What does he do exactly?
The lad is entitled to his opinion but i strongly disagree with him. MGS series for me is something special & it always will be. Yeah it has loads of cut scenes, but it is a cinematic experience after all & a story as neck deep as MGS needs that kind of fleshing out to explain it properly.
It's just how Kojima rolls.
exactly what really pisses me off about where the world is going these days!
respect for your elders has just disappeared!
we need to bring back the era of the kane where kids were actually scared straight.
kids got it far too easy these days!
Funniest thing is that this little stunt worked now many more people know his name. I wont be surprised if he announces a new project given all this exposure he's gotten
I refuse to read his words, because I hate anything that's trolling, so I'm glad Ben could paraphrase it for me.
Kojima invented a genre, has an incredible storytelling ability (he needs a better editor, but the overall quality is amazing, and out does many films these days to me at least), and is a brilliant auteur. I'd like to see what this troll has done with his career other than writing reviews at IGN.
Kojima is the biggest reason I'm studying to be a game designer. He's touched the lives of so many people in so many ways and is one of the best game designers of all time.
He wants to criticize? That's fine, I can openly criticize Kojima about a number of thing. But he does it in way that is mean spirited and doesn't help anyone, and ultimately makes HIM look like a fool. Kojima has flaws as a designer(who doesn't?), but the overall quality of his body of work is simply masterful.
Wait, wait!
Did you hear that another Indie dev has pretty much stated the same thing but I think it involved cursing and not at a Japanese dev, but at the Japanese…GAME INDUSTRY!?
Apparently in the lines of "Japanese games suck" but as I said…involved cursing.
Really? Let's hope they remain indie forver then. Shameful mindset.
Yeah, alright.
But… then, do we have a right to criticize other companies and their products, regardless of their popularity? We're "nobodies".
Kojima's style follows that of most anime. To date, it still boasts some of the best hand to hand combat scenes and intense character investment.
Rodriguez could learn something from that, rather than bash one of the more creative minds to ever grace the gaming industry. Not everyone wants to play mindless shooters that repaint the same story over and over.
Note to self, stay away from Nicalis games…
"you can't help stupid" lol
Last edited by Nynja on 3/29/2012 10:29:23 AM
Outrageously long cut scenes, strange controls schemes, head scratching plot turns, triple and quadruple crosses… and I don't care what anyone says, MGS rules. I'm almost done another playthrough of 3 now, this time in the HD collection. If it's not my favorite game ever, it's top 5 for sure. Haters be damned.
The only thing I hated was the controls in MGS2 and 3. Other than that the series is a masterpiece.
MGS 2 played legitimately poorly, in my opinion. Far and away my least favorite in the series, and I lost interest for a few years after that. The subsistence version of 3 was SUCH an improvement, and it's still playable today, but no question the last years or so have done wonders for the streamlining of third person controls for all kinds of games. There were a ton of awesome third person games in the PS2 era — MGS 3 of course, Resident Evil 4, etc. — but they show their age. A lot of developers, rightly, saw the tweaks that could be made to those formulas to deliver the super slick controls we take for granted now in games like Uncharted, Mass Effect 3, etc.
On the topic of long cutscenes, one person has actually determined MGS is broken for the use of the "20-30 minute instances when a player isnt doing anything"
Someone in the comments section regarding MGS said, and I quote "if you have 20-30 minute instances when the player isn’t doing anything, your game is broken."
Wow. Just, Wow.
I think they miss the point — Kojima clearly is messing with his audience a bit with those cutscenes. He's doing what lots of great directors/authors/musicians do — intentionally subvert "good" practices in the art form in the service of a distinct vision for your work. In other words, it's "good" form in video games to have very brief/non-existent cut scenes. Kojima goes out of his way to have L-O-N-G cut scenes, and MGS 4 had the longest yet. I think it's all part of his way of commenting on audience expectations, the role of video games, and a whole lot more, but I feel like I could write a book on that so I won't go crazy here 🙂
@telly
You make a good point there 🙂
If one examines the MGS games closely, they can see that Kojima plays with fans expectations thoughout the series.
For instance, with MGS2 everyone was expecting to play as Snake through the whole game (the E3 footage eluded to that), of course that wasn't the case.
With MGS3 most thought Solid Snake would be the main character, but it turned out to be Big Boss.
MGS4 Spoiler Alert.
And with MGS4, everyone thought that Snake would die in the end, and he didn't.
Last edited by Fox hounder on 3/29/2012 3:26:03 PM
And now he's saying "Thanks for the free publicity Ben Dutka!" – the best thing for people like him is the same as the best thing for bullies – ignore them – if they aren't spoken about or taken notice of they won't have an affect and will get bored, shut up and be annoyed at their lack of attention from those from whom they seeked it.