Ben-DutkaFor a while now, we've been wondering what Hideo Kojima's secret "Project Ogre" is. Many figured it'd be something along the same lines as his legendary Metal Gear Solid franchise.
Well, not really. According to a CNN interview with the master, "Project Ogre" is actually an open-world, freedom-oriented adventure. Yeah, you read that correctly.
Instead of going for the cinematic approach, as MGS always has, Kojima appears to be embracing a more modern and arguably more popular structure for his project.
"The kind of game I'm making is some game that has a very wide entrance, a very open entrance. Rather than making something very cinematic, [I plan to] make something very free."
Based on his words, players will be free to explore the world with little in the way of restriction. He also wants to give us incentive to explore and emphasizes that even after 100 hours of play, we'll be able to "find new things." Right around the time fans were clamoring for Zone of the Enders 3 and Metal Gear Solid 5 , Kojima came out with the news of "Project Ogre" and we had no idea it would be such a dramatic departure for this accomplished visionary.
But we figure Kojima can do anything if he puts his mind to it. And he puts his mind to everything because he's a perfectionist. Can't wait to hear more about this one.
Yeah, this sounds really cool. Glad Hideo is branching out. Really wanna know more about it and when it's coming. If there's a game directed by Hideo Kojima, there is 60 (or 40 when it came to PW) on the table from me.
Like that he's going in a new direction. There is room for another BB game, but I'm glad that Hideo instead is making a new IP. I still think there'll be a great story within the game even if it's not as cinematic.
Only thing I'm concerned is if he can have an open world game w/o all the problems/glitches that plagues similar games.
I know he's Hideo Kojima but NO ONE is perfect… and if he DOES makes such flawless game then he will be officially declared the King of Developers!
He's such a quality control whore that I wouldn't worry about it.
Last edited by Jawknee on 12/21/2011 10:24:45 PM
hes such a QA whore it would never get released!
i cant see him doing a open world game, it would take far too long!
Open world games are great if done right(inFamous, Arkhem City) but too many tend to get boring as hell after so many hours(Assassin's Creed, Red Dead, L.A Noire) and some have problems telling a good story(Rage). That said, I'm sure Kojima can pull it off since he is a great story teller and knows how to keep gameplay fresh.
I still haven't finished RDR, I got bored of it after about 12+ hours.
I never got tired of RDR it was to much to do, I can how many ppl thought L.A. Noire is boring because it only gave you this sense of open-worldness but it was very much a linear game and it had almost no real replayability.
i wouldnt put la noire in the same league as the others. it seemed open world but like others said, it is pretty linear compared to gta or red dead. its the reason i actually finished and loved the game. the most boring part was getting platinum, that took some time. with all the damn collectibles, most of them way out of the way, it just got tedius. in that whole game you had to find film canisters that are so small and easy to miss. then you had to find and ride each different car. i'm glad i'm done with the game but story was great.
Oh yeah, I got goosebumps on top of my other goosebumps once reading the article that Kojima tweeted to us.
I know Hideo is a genious but I wish he could work a little faster. We have only seen a couple of games from him this gen. One of them was a hand held game. A good hand held game but I want more. Talk, talk, talk. Where are the damn games? Constant tease but nothing tangible to show for it. Everything has to be secret or some kind slow torture tease. What a drama queen. Get to work and start cranking out some actual games Mr. Kojima. Your fans grow tired of waiting.
I prefer one quality game over a thousand mediocre ones.
If you rush something, it only makes things worse and then people will moan because it's not perfect.
This ^
Though it would have been nice to see a new MGS by now or at least some plans for one.
Yeah, I get quality over quanity, but I think there is something to be said about Japanese game production this gen. They seem to take an eternity to make a game when you compare them to their western counterparts. Their quality has dropped off considerbly as well. I do give credit to Hideo for keeping the quality high with the MGS series. Like Jawk I do wish we would have at least seen some plans for a new MGS title. I was kind of hoping Konami was secretly already working on a MGS game.
There are several other Japanese games or series I would have liked to at least heard something about by now. Where is Resident Evil 6? FFvs13? The Last Guardian? Another MGS game on the consoles would be nice. Another main FF game would have been nice. On the PS2 we got the excellent FF10, and its okay direct sequel, and later got FF12. Square also gave us Kingdom Hearts on the PS2. The PS2 also got 2 main MGS titles. We got 2 GT games plus ICO and SoTC. See what I mean? Japanese game production is off this gen.
Just going through my gaming collection I can see how dramatic Japan's decline has been. The bulk of my PS1 and PS2 gaming collection has mostly Japanese made games in it. My Ps3 gaming collection is made up of mainly western made games.
Excelsior, the reason Hideo's games are so good is because he takes his time. He works very collaboratively with his team on every aspect of the game, and makes sure everything is first rate to the nth degree. That's why there's like three or four years in between all his games just about.
It's only been one year since PW was released, and since Rising blew up in his face because of the failure of the other team. I say give him until at least 2013 before we see anything from him or next year at the earliest.
Kojima except for Peace Walker, has taken at least three years in between all of his titles to make first rate productions, and I expect nothing less from him. So give the man the time he needs to make another great game.
And he is a tease, but that makes it worth it when you finally see what he's doing.
I know his games are good but in all honesty we should have seen something tangible on the consoles by now from Hideo. I don't know what exactly happened with Rising but I do think it reflects on my point about Japanese game production this gen. Rising should already be out by now. So should FFvs13 and The Last Guardian. These games were announced ages ago but we still know so little about them. That's the frustrating part. Getting excited about a game then you wait, wait ,wait and wait some more. What a turn off.
I will give Hideo a break I guess but all this secret talk…his Taboo game, projest Ogre, and maybe a ZOE game. We should know something tangible about at least one these games by now in my humble opinion. All we get is secret talk and a screen shot of the new fox engine showing off some underwear. Some actual games would be nice.
They probably should have ditched Rising since it appears they did not know what to do with the game from a conceptual point. The original concept(stealth/hunter) looked decent enough but I don't like where they are taking it now. What's really discouraging is Konami apparently did not have enough talent or resources to finish Rising themselves. I don't know what to make of that, but I don't think we would have seen that type of behavior going on last gen. Last gen Japan actualy produced games on a regular basis with good quality as well. That's changed a lot this gen.
Hideo would probably be better off announcing one project at a time and helming it himself then, you know, actualy produce a game and get it on store shelves. It seems when he tries to hand a project off it like you said blows up in his face.
edit: something ELSE tangible on the consoles
Ogre project?
Wait Koji, where's the taboo project?
I'm confused!
Sounds great. The guy is so damn talented I'd love to see what he can do outside of MGS. Not that I don't love MGS, but seeing something fresh will be, well, refreshing. GO KOJIMA!
Ps3 exclusive?
I am probably one of the biggest fans of open concepts and player freedom around here, so my interest were of course awaken by this story.
But can he handle it? That's what I ask myself. Has he done anything like this before? Cause if you are too much of a control freak (as I understand from you all that he is) then I wonder how he can get himself to create a game where the very essence of the game is that you as the designer are *not* deciding what the gamer shall do and where he should do it.
MGS4 were not the most confined game I've played (confined as in restricted/linear – I get trouble breathing when games are too forced on me) but still: There's a huge, huge stretch from MGS4 to games like Saints Row, Infamous, Skyrim or GTA.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2011 3:51:40 AM
@beamboom
Yes I have noticed you are a big fan of player freedom and open concepts. I share that view. I am a big fan of those elements as well. I have played my share of extremely linear games this gen and I find it absolutely suffocating. That's why games like Skyrim(when it works) or Fallout3(also when it works) are so refreshing. It's like a breath of fresh air and I want to scream thank God I am free at last. I'll call myself the second biggest fan of player freedom around here. I also notice that you are an atypical thinker and like to take a contrarian point of view. I think that adds value to the community. There is some crotch riding around here at times. It's nice to see somebody else play devil's advocate at times. Again, it adds value to the community because it forces people to maybe step back and reconsider things. You know, actually think for themselves.
Okay back to MGS. There is a small section in MGS4 that takes place in the second act that is relatively open for a MGS title. It's when you come up on the power station that you have to sabotage. There was actually a couple of different ways to approach that section of the game. I do agree that MGS4 is very linear as whole.
I would not call MGS4 the most linear game I have ever played. Uncharted 2 and 3 are some the most linear games I have played. Killzone 3 was linear to the extreme. A lot of sprinting down narrow paths in tiny little levels until the next set of glowing eyes. Absolutely freaking brutal…almost had an on rails quality to the game that I could not stand.
I tend to despise linear games. That is why I have trouble getting into the Uncharted series. I like the games and appreciate their quality but I do not love them. There is the moment in UC2 when you come upon that beautiful looking and expansive city where the helicopter battle takes place on the roof. You got this huge city but the game forces you down a tiny little path into an indoor enviroment. Damn, I wish I could have seen more of that city. You know, just let me explore a little bit. Nope, not allowed. Ironic that a game with uncharted in its name won't let you go off the map and explore even a little.
I would say a super linear game like KZ3 or even UC is way easier to make and less of an accomplishment than games that tend to be more open. That's just my opinion, That's why I worry about The Last of Us. To me a post-apocolyptic game like that should be more open world or sand box like but that does not play to ND's strengths.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 12/22/2011 6:09:48 AM
Openness does indeed complicate a lot of stuff, it is not an easy task, neither technically nor designwise.
It seems we are the same when it comes to too linear gameplay. But it is our loss. There are great, strictly linear games too. I just can't stand them. I really can't.
I am with use when it comes to open world games. That's why I am really looking forward to the next Dragon Age. Linear games are ok sometimes, but usually they just bore me to death. one exception of the top of my head is the Galerians games, they were linear but I loved them. Uncharted is my prime example of a linear game that I don't like. I played the first one and platinumed it in around 13 hours of game time. It was nothing more than a platformer with a sprinkle of shooter elements in it, and because it was so boring I never bothered with the sequels. I am not picking on its production values as they were/are high but the game just isn't too my liking.
To me this is the true test for Kojima too prove "to me" that he really is a genius. Sure MGS is brilliant, hell damn near perfect, but I need something completely off the wall to prove to me he is as brilliant as we gamers like to think he is. I really think with his perfectionist attitude that he can succeed where many others would fail and that is all I'm hoping for.
@Rogue: I am that way too! How cool.
Uncharted is *the* example for me of a series that is straight up boring. Yes, boring! Silly puzzles that were no FUN solving, they were just obstacles.
Take my word, do not bother with the sequels. I have not with UC3: I've learnt after giving it a second chance with UC2.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/23/2011 5:34:23 AM
just 1 question.
if he struggled to fit MGS4 a small strictly linear game on a dual layer bluray disk.
how the &^%$ is he going to fit a open world game on one!?
eh, whatever it will be interesting to see what he comes up with.
but open world games take forever and incur so many bugs and being the perfectionist he is we wont be seeing this till 2017 at the earliest!
It was the many and lengthy movie clips that required space, not the game.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2011 5:09:52 AM
Exactly Beamboom. If you take way those movie clips the actual amount of gameplay offered in MGS4 is relatively small. On my repeated playthroughs I managed to complete the game in around 4hrs and that is no exaggeration. The game would have greatly benefited from a couple of extra acts. I also did not care for the weak third act at all. I hated going through that level on repeated playthroughs.
Where the game really shines is when you hook up with Meryl and battle the frog unit. That section was a blast and I was very impressed with the AI of your squad in that section of the game. I wish there was more sections like that. The second act is great as well. Also, the moment when you come up on Shadow Moses and that music kicks in is a great moment that is quite emotional for long time MGS fans.
My main gripe with the game is that if you strip away the ridiculous amount of cut scene material there really is not a whole lot of game there. What is there is great but not enough imo. I try to cut the game some slack beause it had a lot of loose ends to wrap up, but MR. Kojima would have greatly benefited from a decent editor. I really noticed that on repeated playthroughs when rewatching the cut scenes. I see a lot of material that would have hit the cutting room floor because it just was not necessary…it did nothing to advance the story or characters. If you are going to try to make a movie you might as well do it right. Again, a decent editor would have helped greatly.
MGS3 remains the best in the series imo. It got the gameplay/cut scene balance right and is just a superior game in almost every way I can think of. Replaying it now on MGS HD collection. Other than the controls it holds up great. I mention the controls because MGS3 would have greatly benefited from the over the shoulder mechanic that is found in Peace Walker. It's great that MGS 3 allows for full 3D camera control because the original version did not. Kojima resisted full 3D camera for awhile and gamers suffered for it. I think I read a quote from Hideo when he responded to a question about why no full 3D view. He said 3D games made him sick. That was a weird answer.
Yes, but also the storage required for gameplay is in no way related to the storage required for movies.
You can get a tremendous lot of gameplay into, say, 200 megs worth of game code – and that's the size of a very short cutscene in a decent resolution.
So when people talk about how someone had to cut content out of a game to fit on a xbox dvd, it is highly likely that we here only talk about cutting down on the cutscenes, not actual game content.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2011 5:31:15 AM
mgs4 came early in the ps3 life, they didnt really care about space limitations since they did have a lot of them to use. bluray space is also increasing but others said, its those videos/cinematics that took alot of space. but seriously after many years working with the ps3, you really think they didnt take that into account? they even have developers like naughty dog available to help them.
OFF TOPIC: Has anyone ever received the error message "Can't add funds to your wallet" when trying to buy something off the PS Store? I used three credit cards last night (checked all billing info thoroughly) and I kept getting the same message over and over again. I'm kinda ticked off about it because I tried ALL day yesterday and I want to pick up the LA Noire: Complete Edition.
ON TOPIC: As sick as I am of open-world games (give me a cinematic more-linear experience anyway; i.e. Metal Gear Solid, Uncharted, Batman: Arkham City, God of War, etc.), I 100% trust Kojima to make a great game. MGS is my favourite series of all time. I loved Zone of the Enders, even though he only served as producer. I loved Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, even though he only served as creative consultant. The only one I didn't care for was his Game Boy Advance game where you used the sunlight to play. It was innovative, but it wasn't my cup of tea. I look forward to this "ogre project" and I hope that it ends up being my cup of tea. 😉
Just a heads up: I don't know what the price of LA Noire is in the psn store but it's *real* cheap online now, in stores like Amazon or Play. I got it in the mail myself, this week.
I would not be surprised at all if you get a better deal for a physical copy at another retailer than you get on PSN.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2011 7:56:30 AM
Thanks for the heads-up, but it's only $24.49 for the game and ALL the DLC with my PS+ discount right now, and I'd prefer to get it digitally because my brother and I are going halfers on it.
Coolness!
I've not even unwrapped LA Noire yet cause I received Alice: Madness Returns the same day and started there.
🙂 Gotta love the holiday sales!
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2011 8:31:12 AM
@tridon
I loved Castlevannia: Lords of Shadow as well. Mr. Expert told me the combat system was broken but that's a load of crap. The combat system is deep and expansive. I had no trouble mastering it. I think CLOS is an epic game that is superior to GOW3 in many ways. Mainly because CLOS takes you accross many beautiful and expansive levels that offer a lot of variety in enemy types and terrain. GOW3 had too much back tracking around that stupid hub through tiny little interior levels that were dark and cramped. GOW3 would have benefited greatly from a steads of time-like section similar to what was found in GOW2. Combat was not nearly as deep either. Bash, bash, bash…rinse and repeat. CLOS had way more moves and also had a counter system that you could use to stun enemies. Light and dark attacks provided a level of depth as well.
Also, what an epic ending CLOS had. It makes GOW3's ending feel a small, convoluted whimper of an ending in comparison. That was not a proper send off for Kratos. Just a bloody mess to be honest. CLOS went out with jaw dropping bang. GOW3 went out with a whimper.
I think maybe some of Hideo's golden touch rubbed off on CLOS. CLOS has flat out one of the most spectacular endings I have ever seen in a videogame. The final boss battle with you know who was fantastic as well. Again, I can not say enough good things about CLOS. Loved everything about it. The art, the level design, the combat, the boss fights, but mostly the different settings. CLOS is jammed packed with gameplay. You aren't going to beat that game in a few sittings *cough GOW3 cough* nor will you be left scratching your head at its end saying "that's it?" Nope, you will be picking your jaw off the floor and dreaming about the possibilities of a CLOS sequel. In my book it's a top notch production. Great job Mercury Steam and hats off to Hideo as well.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 12/22/2011 9:44:37 AM
Okay, now I have to finish CLOS. I have to see this fantastic ending. I suppose I could just YouTube it, but I didn't work this hard to get to the end and then just quit.
I am on the final boss on the hardest difficulty, and man am I having an uber difficult time figuring out his attack patterns. Don't know why, the rest of the game's bosses only took maybe 3-5 deaths each.
story wise, i liked castlevania lord of shadow. the gameplay was a different story. it felt more of a chore to me when i played it. i'll play god of war over castlevania over again based on gameplay only. i dont know what it is but playing castlevania was a pain to me.
johnld: It felt like a chore because it had obvious problems.
Excelsior: The continued jabs are unnecessary. If you talk to real action fans, they will inform you how wrong you are. You obviously had no clue how to play God of War III, and obviously didn't bother to try.
So stop acting like your experience is the gospel. It's freakin' annoying. You want to tell me what I say is "crap," you just keep it to yourself or find a way to phrase it differently. Or else maybe you should come and do my job.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/22/2011 2:58:57 PM
Well, then you did not know how to play CLOS. As for the "crap" word. You talk like that to members all the time and you know it. If you think I care if I annoy you well that would be another thing you would be wrong about. Just expressing my opinion which I should bre allowed to to do without hearing from Mr. Adiminstrator. I think CLOS is better. I'm not saying my opinion is gospel. Go pick on somebody else, and get some thicker skin while you are at it please. I have no idea where you pulled telling you how to do your job out the post above but whatever. Note the 3 thumbs down you got for being such a nice guy.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 12/23/2011 3:30:07 PM
Make that 6 thumbs down. Nobody likes a dictator. A thin skinned one at that. You are afforded the same level of respect I have seen you treat others. Load of crap is a direct quote from yourself. I will rephrase nothing and I will express my opinion freely. I'm not breaking any rules. Merry Christmas, Mr. adminstrator.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 12/24/2011 1:30:18 AM