Ben-DutkaIt's nice to see the PlayStation Move perfoming relatively well but in my eyes, 2012 needs to be a year for big-time, top-quality software.
Move has a few solid titles under its belt but we're missing the defining games, the titles that trigger big increases in Move sales. Maybe Sorcery can do it, but I don't think we should rely on that one promising game.
From the start, Sony said they were treating this new motion-sensing device as a peripheral for the hardcore gamer. It wasn't just about silly, simple entertainment; we'd be seeing big blockbusters with Move as the focus. But I really haven't seen that yet. Sure, some people have really enjoyed using Move for shooters (that Sharpshooter accessory seems to be popular), and there are lots of Move-compatible titles on shelves.
However, such a precise device should've resulted in AAA software for the hardcore by now, don't you think? For my money, it's a wicked precise device, although I have had some difficulty calibrating it for my shooters. Given the capability of this thing, the possibilities should be close to endless; developers could have a ball. Maybe we'll finally see the Move games that make everyone go, "see, that's why you need to have this thing! It's just awesome!"
Even on the Wii it was difficult to show a hardcore game that worked BETTER with motion controls.
That is until Capcom produced a port of Resident Evil 4.
The controls worked so well, that the only complaint motion-control detractors could come up with to put it down, was that they made the game too easy. And it was easier, because they worked.
If you go to amazon and read reviews of that game, you will come up with lots of people saying that once they tried playing RE4 with motion controls, they never felt like going back to using a regular controller.
That's what the Move needs. A hardcore game that shows that a particular gaming experience actually becomes if not better, at least satisfying with its use.
Last edited by Bonampak on 12/1/2011 9:51:11 PM
Yeah, but they need more than old games that most people have not already played to death. I am sure the lack of games has a lot of Move's collecting dust out there.
LOL I didn't meant to say that the Move needs a port of an old game with Move capabilities slapped on it.
I mentioned RE4 for Wii as an example of a core game that worked beautifully with motion-controls.
If a mere port with tacked-on motion-controls actually worked, surely some dev out there with enough talent could produce a new game that uses the Move with similar success. Especially when the Move is superior to the Wii remote.
It can be done. That's what I'm saying.
Metroid Prime 3 came before RE4 Wii Edition and it was perfect.
And I have to disagree that Move is superior. It's not as accurate from my experience.
Last edited by Jawknee on 12/2/2011 4:23:48 AM
I gave MP3 a crack, and it was well enough done, but I found myself wishing I had a standard controller. If I had a standard controller, I'd have likely finished the game (which was solid, but over-rated because it was a medium-sized fish in a tiny pond when it came to quality shooters on Wii). KZ3's motion controls were at least as good as MP3s, but again, I prefer a DS3 please.
But for me I've got my Move killer app – Top Darts! It's awesome :D. If you like darts ;). OT, Ben's spot on – while there are plenty of niche games for gamers that don't mind trying something a little different (Tumble, Top Darts, Echochrome, RUSE), there's nothing blockbuster that's blown everyone away. Games take time though, and blockbuster ones take 2+ years, so it doesn't mean it won't happen, just that no-one's finished it yet.
I have to agree that move is superior. It's far more accurate from my experience.
Fact: Move is a more precise technology, thus it is more accurate.
Jawknee, I clearly didn't read your comment closely but I've played Move, Wii and motion+, and Move has a generational edge on motion+ in terms of accuracy, and the vanilla wiimote (which is what MP3 is set up for) is about as accurate as my LMG spray in BF3 (not very ;)). Not to say all three can't be fun, but if you're using the best available software for each, Move is head-and-shoulders ahead of the pack. What were you using Move with? There are some games out there (often Wii ports) that didn't sticky-tape the tech on well, but use it with something like Sports Champions or Top Darts and it shines.
You're correct when talking about games like Sports Champions but when just comparing Metroid to Killzone, Move is all over the place and way to hard to control. It's almost like its too precise for it's own good.
I had an absolute blast playing kz3 with the sharpshooter in my 110" theater. I have no desire to try out multiplayer but the campaign was great and the controls really clicked towards the end. I'm looking forward to my friend picking up r3 so we can each use the sharpshooter for online campaign coop.
MP is the best part.
R3 works well with it i think but yeah most of the games that best suit it arent what i'd consider "hardcore" Best use of it right now imo is everybody dance
The promise of must have games was why I was initially interested, the lack of them is why I never bought one. I'd rather use a DS3 with any shooter too. It's a shame.
They just need to make IP's that are specifically for Move. Not just games that are compatible.
Yes, exactly. That's what they need to do. And it can be done, we saw that with Sports Champions, so why they haven't released a good Move game after that is beyond comprehension to me.
I really, really want to use my Move. But I can't keep playing Frisbee golf across three tiny tracks (or was it four?) forever.
I don't use it daily but I still use it. So youre wrong.
They have probably tried to push Move on all developers, but only the studios they own "care" enough to implement it. They should design dedicated Move games instead of shoe-horn Move into games best played with a DS3.
Actually, I'm playing a game or two of Top Darts a day, so you're wrong there ;). Sure, it doesn't get a lot of use, but at the moment (and possibly for the long haul) it's a niche controller for specific games. I don't pull my racing wheel out for every gaming session either, nor my flight stick, but that doesn't make them failures (far from it!) Same for Kinect as well while we're at it ;).
I really want to play KZ3 with the sharp shooter. It just looks like it makes so much sense. Maybe through in the 3d touch while you're at it.
All shooters should have a move/sharp shooter option and I should have more money so I can buy the whole package.
Gamers need to understand the advantages the move has over kinect and the wii mote.
Move n the sharpshooter are great in KZ3, and personally even better in MAG. My buddy says its great for Socom too.
I didn't like Move with KZ3. I honestly didn't think they did as good of a job implementing motion controls with KZ3 as Nintendo did with Metroid Prime.
Jawknee – options for Move in KZ3 were far deeper than those available in Metroid Prime 3 (where you got no idea of where the bounding box sat, and just three settings, instead of sliders). That said, KZ3 wasn't designed for Move, and so I found all the turning in KZ3 (I suck badly at turning with the Sharpshooter setup) hard to deal with, while MP3 was designed _only_ for a motion control setup, and so took more heed of its weaknesses. But the basic implementation of the motion controls themselves was more nuanced and flexible in KZ3 (they worked just fine in MP3 as well, although the technological limitations of the wiimote meant that it still 'missed' some of the gesture commands, even when you nailed them, which could be frustrating in a firefight). Both good games, but personally I think both are better with a controller (just a shame Ninty never gave us that option with MP3).
No matter how I tweaked the settings in Killzone 3 I couldn't get them to work. The slightest move to the left, right, up or down through the camera all over the place. Metroid on the other hand didn't need deep settings for configuration. It was ready when you picked it up to play. That's what was so great about it. It's like Nintendo nailed the controls when they made the game there was no need to through in a enhanced settings menu.
Why has no one mentioned Heavy Rain??? Even though it was patch for the retail game, Heavy Rain plays amazingly well! Some gestures made you feel that much more immersed in the game. And on the Killzone 3 move controls @Jawknee I am still adjusting to the controls with the sharpshooter, but with just the move itself, absolutely astounding accuracy. As I stated before long as you have a steady surface to rest the move controller, you can become a killing machine. I AM a testament to that.
The Wii has a lot more "hardcore" motion-controlled games than Move right now. I know the technology is far superior, but the games still aren't there. Nothing that compares to Metroid Prime Trilogy, Skyward Sword or even Punch-Out.
So, yes. I very much agree. At this point I'd like to see someone just copy Nintendo's designs and release it in HD, provided they're done well.
How about a medieval knight RPG? With a 50-pound sword attachment? That would be pretty nice.
"Nothing that compares to Metroid Prime Trilogy, Skyward Sword or even Punch-Out."
Yea boi!!!
Couldn't have said it better myself.
There may be nothing that compares with Skyward Sword (Wii traded before released) and Punch Out (never got around to it), but MP trilogy is just an above-average first-person set of adventure games. If you're looking for motion-controlled games that compare, KZ3 and SOCOM:SF both compare well, and I'd be surprised if Resi 3 didn't stand up well as well (but haven't had the funds to get into that one yet). I enjoyed MP3, and the re-run through the original MP, but while they stood out on the Wii, they're just above-average when you compare them with what's available on the PS3 (I traded my Wii because of the grand canyon sized gulf between hype and reality of both it, and the current state of Nintendo's game design). Hell, I would have enjoyed either of MP1 and 3 (I steered well clear of 2) with a standard controller (ie, I enjoyed my first time with MP on Gamecube more than I did with the Wii controls, and the 'Cube controller was a fair step down from the Dualshock). Skyward Sword sounds (from all accounts) like it's a quality game (although it still has unskippable, scrolling text to tell the story – the guys in Ninty must still travel to work by horse and cart!), but everything I hear about the gameplay suggests the swordwork in Sports Champions bests it and, tbh, it sounds like another game that suits a controller best. I don't want to have to stand up and wave my arms around every time I bump into an enemy in God of War, for example.
The sword-and-shield combat in the new Zelda really wouldn't work with a controller. The motion controls are actually more precise than analog sticks. It's pretty awesome.
As far as Metroid Prime goes, they're adventure games first and shooters second, so comparing them to SOCOM and Killzone doesn't really make sense. Those are much more focused on destruction than atomosphere and exploration.
Anyway, back to Zelda for me 😛
"but MP trilogy is just an above-average first-person set of adventure games."
It's way above average was way ahead of its time when it released. It was another bar setter in terms of FPS's on consoles.
Last edited by Jawknee on 12/2/2011 4:58:12 PM
Thumbs up for good response Jawknee :). It does take some adjustment (the camera speed is the key, as is having a sensible bounding box), and even after that I'd say it's not quite as good a setup as SOCOM (although SOCOM, like MP3, is designed more with motion controls in mind in terms of its environment, whereas KZ3 demands a lot of fast turning, which motion controls are inherently bad at – as turning is effectively an analog stick with 50% or similar deadzone, controlled by a pseudo-laser pointer). But I got KZ3 to work slightly better for me than MP3 (I found I wanted my bounding box (deadzone for movement) in MP3 a little smaller than 'advanced', but a little bigger than 'normal'), but MP3 was definitely better set up for just picking up and rolling with it.
PS – agree MP was way ahead of it's time on GC, MP3 was just 'good' though (noting there's _nothing_ wrong with this – I thought SOCOM and KZ3 were just 'good' as well, but loved 'em, as I did MP3) and I honestly found the motion controls a barrier to me enjoying MP3 that I didn't have to face in SOCOM or KZ3. Not saying that motion control was better in either of these games – but I didn't find it worse either, some bits of KZ3 with motion worked quite well (the bits designed with less turning in mind), whereas others (Exos for example) not so much.
Meh, nothing will get me to invest in motion controls. The day I'm required to use these type of controls is the day I quit gaming on any new platforms.
I don't know. You should try Skyward Sword if you can. I never want to play another Zelda with the tradinonal game pad again.
It does sound like they've done a good job with Skyward Sword (after five years, longer with the devkits!), and the MP games were good as well, but many games on the Wii (Super Mario Galaxy, Swords and Soldiers, Lost Winds – and for me MP1 and 3) were worse because of the motion controls. Hell, Wii Sports and Sports Resort were the only two games were I enjoyed them. The rest felt like I was trading accuracy and immediacy for gimmick.
And this is where the issue comes with 'Blockbuster games' for Move – those kind of long, exploration-style games will always have a significant proportion of the audience that prefers to play with a controller. On Wii, you don't get that option (thanks for nothing Ninty), but on PS3 games like KZ3, SOCOM and Resi 3 make it optional, so people can run with what they enjoy. We won't see an 'all Move' Skyward Sword, because not everyone wants that (or, if we do, it'll struggle, because it won't have a one-eyed Ninty fanbase to support it).
I will say that Heavy Rain with Move is good fun. More accurate than the standard Wii, and similar style of play. But again, I think it's the kind of thing that shouldn't (and definitely doesn't need) to be made Move only.
Skyrim could have used the PS Move, I would love to try that.
Interesting, that would be a good time!
I don't think you can make a motion peripheral a "hardcore" gamers first option. So when they talk about releasing AAA titles for move I assume they mean games like KZ3, and so on. The Wii relies on motion gaming so devs have no choice, when given the choice I think it's a no brainer, controller all the way! Let's see what David Cage does next because the way move worked with HR was fricken brilliant. Move just needs more of that!
All I know is was completely satisfied with my purchase of the move controller, as soon as I played MAG with it. What they really need is some more sports champions! I'd like to see some DLC for that at least!
Sports Champions ftw. That was a great Move game.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/2/2011 1:35:27 AM
Ben, I completely agree. I was into the PS Move when it first came out, but it has gone through such a drought of games that I really regret buying it. I have a Sharpshooter, and to be honest, I really didn't enjoy using it to play Killzone 3. Now it is just sitting here collecting dust. I'm hoping something really special comes out for it next year or else it will have been a huge waste of $200+.
Me neither. The sharp shooter was a waste of money. Killzone 3 with move kinda stinks. When I play Metroid Prime the motion controls are perfect. Killzone…Eeeeh not so much.
Last edited by Jawknee on 12/2/2011 4:08:12 AM
You should only buy anything when there's a game that draws you in for it. I'd had prior experience with shooters on the Wii (MP3 in fact), so was pretty sure I'd prefer the Dualshock to the Sharpshooter (which I found better on KZ3 than MP3, due to the flexibility of options on setup, and the fact that the Move doesn't 'lose' button presses and misinterpret motion commands unlike Ninty's far less accurate approach), but I find the Sharpshooter with Time Crisis and The Shoot great fun (and I love Lightgun games) – and RUSE, Sports Champions and Top Darts were all awesome. But if you're really only into a few games that support Move, then I'd recommend people stay clear. If you are looking for good Move games, Flight Control HD, Tumble and Echochrome 2 are supposed to be alright, and I've had fun with Beat Sketcher with the other half, and Under Siege is quality, if hard!
Damn @Jawknee you come in here to complain about Killzone!? You had a bad experience with it, we know. I have played just about every game on the PS3 excluding echo chrome. Resistance is pure simple fun, especially after the move patch was released (zoomed in aiming was terrible). LittleBigplanet 2 with the move is surprisingly easy to use for navigating, and even easier to control the direction of the head (for films and sackbots)
All the naysayers need to give a little more TLC to their move.
THey need Okami type games up in this biznatch!
I just read that two key execs have left SCEA. VP of the marketing team, Mr.Stienberg and SVP of publisher relations Mr.Dyer are out.
Industry gamers has said its source claims Stienberg was fired and escorted out by security. Sony says he resigned.
This is not necessarily bad news. Maybe they can fill that marketing position with somebody that knows how to sale the PS3 in NA.
As for the Move. It's collecting dust on store shelves and in people's homes becuase it has no games to drive sales. I would not worry so much about the hardcore. You probably aren't going to win them over anyways. Just get some good games out there period.
Quite honestly Move needs to shape up. Sony hasn't done anything that is better or that even compares with Metroid Prime or Zelda. Killzone 3 is way too herky jerky and there's is nothing that comes close the quality motion sword play as Skyward Sword. Move is just lacking. I want it to succeed but so far I feel like its a waste.
But Heavy Rain and the move on the other hand is quite an expirience! Some games aren't so hot with it while others are quite an expirience.
Indeed. I always forget about Heavy Rain.
This is just plain not true. KZ3 is _different_ to MP3 (as is SOCOM, and MAG), but it's actually more flexible and better set up (for reasons explained in posts above). I spent far more on my Wii, and tried far more games, and traded it within two or three months – it was inaccurate, waggly garbage (and motion plus was better, but for me Sports Champions >>> Wii Sports Resort). The Wii is the _only_ gaming console I've traded (I still have a Gamecube :)), and the only console I've regretted owning.
Now, Sony doesn't have anything that's Move-related with the strong emotional ties of the Ninty franchises, I'll grant it that, but that doesn't mean at the pure gameplay level it hasn't matched and best motion+ (and matching and besting the basic Wiimote was done by both the Gamecube controller and the original PSX pad).
While I haven't played Skyward sword, pretty much all of the reviews I've read (which score it very well, 8.5 and up generally) note how the setup sometimes misinterprets commands and swings from the other direction, or similar. This has _never_ happened to me playing Gladiator Duel in Sports Champions (which was a significant step up from the Kendo in Wii Sports Resort, both in terms of accuracy and gameplay).
Move may not have dedicated, Move-only adventure games or shooters, but that's because many players don't want that (I have Move and Sharpshooter, and love it, but I use it for lightgun games – I'm a controller person for shooters). At a technical level, and from the pure gameplay demonstrated so far, Move has a clear edge on motion+, and the basic Wiimote should never have been put into production.
Axe, all your points seem to come down to personal preference. You may like Move better but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo has done a better job making motion control centered games than Sony has. As many have mentioned there are hardly any Move centered games. Move always seems to be tacked on after the fact. Nintendo makes games that are actually built around motion control gaming. Whether you prefer those kinds of games or not is kind of irrelevant when just looking at Sony's lack of hardcore or even casual Move support.
Move is a cool tech and has a lot of potential but it's lacking in games.
Which is not to say you're wrong in your opinion. I just find Move lacking. I honestly haven't touched it since I beat Killzone 3.
Last edited by Jawknee on 12/2/2011 5:12:30 PM
Agree there's always an element of personal preference about anything (any good post-modernist will tell you that everyone has their own influences, and there's no such thing as an unbiased comment). And my opinion has been sadly (because I really wanted to enjoy it – you don't buy a console because you want to go through pain!) tarnished by the really poor experience I had with the Wii.
But I guess part of the issue with this discussion is on Wii, a shooter (up until the likes of GoldenEye and the revival of twin-stick support through the classic controller) _had_ to be motion controlled, whereas on PS3 you don't need to make it dedicated motion-control only.
Other thing I'd say is that Ninty's had five years (since launch) to get it right, and most of the critics are saying that they've really only nailed it now with Skyward Sword. Given that Sony's had a crack with Sports Champions, Medieval Moves, TV Superstars, Echochrome 2, Start the Party 1 and 2, that Carnival game, Move Fitness, Dancestar party (or whatever it's called – not my thing personally ;)), Tumble and a few others (Top Darts! But agree Top Darts is very much a niche thing), plus some third party games in there as well (mainly sport, with a couple of lightgun shooters), on top of quality support for Move in a lot of Sony first-party games plus a few third party games as well (RE5, bunch of Golf and Tennis titles, minigolf and pool games, a few arcade games like Stardrone), that's really not too bad for its first year. Sure, there's no 'Skyward Sword', but Move's been out for a year, and I'd bet good money Ninty have been developing that for well over two, so expecting something that'd top that is a bit unrealistic (same story with Kinect). Hell, if you look at the above list, I wouldn't be surprised if Sony released more _dedicated_ Move games in its first year than Ninty did (although that's just a guess, based on what I've heard from the sparse pickings from the Wii's first year).