Ben-DutkaSo, here's the deal:
David Jaffe and Co. unveil their new game, Drawn to Death , at the PlayStation Experience. Some really love the unique concept and idea; others aren't so enthusiastic.
In response to a few of the more negative comments, Jaffe threw up on Twitter: #GoFuckYourself. This prompted some backlash, as you might expect, as well as this article . I'm going to make this plain- David Jaffe can say whatever he wants, and not because I believe he earned the right to do so. He's merely responding in the same style. Those comments were not constructive criticism; they weren't even remotely polite; they were just harsh and, for the most part, stupid. If you're going to act like an ass, why should the person you're bashing doff his cap and treat you like a gentleman?
One can argue that Jaffe should've been professional about it. Okay, that has some truth to it. But the counter argument is that colorful guys like Jaffe tend to thrive on a bit of dissension and controversy, and let's not forget that the entire gaming community thrives on the exact same thing these days. That's impossible to deny, given the types of headlines that always get traction. Gamers love to scream at each other and sadly, they often act like ego-maniacal 13-year-olds. They haven't the slightest clue what it means to put your heart and soul into a creation and really, they don't care. They're just hateful little beasts online.
I see no reason why these people should be treated well. If they had provided Jaffe with objective, constructive feedback on the game, and Jaffe had responded as he did, I wouldn't defend him. But I will never turn on a noted developer in favor of the people who lower the industry standard on a daily basis.
Damn straight! People that are flat out rude and unconstructive aren't entitled to anything, and should take what they can get. They should be flattered they weren't flat-out ignored.
That's just the thing. Jaffe should've handed them the biggest insult he could've possibly given them: to treat with contempt and ignore them.
Feeding the trolls and hurling insults back at them in public just drags you down to their level.
Another thing to consider, is that the videogame industry is more and more in the spotlight these days. Social media will be quick to pick up on it. As happened here with this story.
It all means that developers and companies are, whether they like it or not, representatives & the face of the industry that they work in. And they should behave like the professionals that they are.
I really see no merit in getting into a shouting match with lunatics. It's like trying to reason with drunkards.
Jaffe should've focused on the positive feedback and on the constructive criticisms exclusively. Ignore the trolls.
Totally agree – if it were me, I'd either try and respond cordially or let it slide, but while Jaffe may not have done what we would have, he still has the right to descend to their level if he likes – people making comments like that have no high horse to retreat to, to suggest it's inappropriate.
Rage on!
This guy helped with god of war, people that disrespect him man, well he has all the right to tell them to go f*** themselves and their mothers.
I met this guy awhile back and he's the type who if insulted will respond just as quick. You say "hahaha look at this f#g" he will turn and look at you and respond "gotta problem? say it to my face b$#ch"
Still its true. These big badarses talking all this mess because they don't like what they see. Guess what? DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. If it isn't catered to you ignore it. It's not COD where everyone will be playing it. It's going to have a much smaller group playing it and that group will like it.
lol, Jaffe is like the punk rocker of gaming. YES!
While I agree with what you say I can also see the other side of the coin:
"If you're going to act like an ass, why should the person you're bashing doff his cap and treat you like a gentleman?"
Ill answer that question with a question, lets say you're working behind the counter of any customer service establishment (lets say a grocery store) and a customer is calling you out of your name, cursing you out and yelling at you for no reason at all other than just because their an ass, so why is it then that if you decide to not doff your cap and treat them like a gentleman but instead do exactly to them what they are doing to you, if that is indeed ok to do then why is it the person in question faces zero consequences for their actions yet you on the other hand wind up losing your job?
Is the consequence of losing your job for defending yourself in the same right you were attacked a symptom of a greater consumer societal problem, though?
I would argue that the grocery clerk doesn't lose his job because he was in the wrong. He loses his job because the employer values the bottom line of a returning customer that comes with our interpretation of professionalism.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/12/2014 9:27:10 AM
and your absolutely correct however the fact of the matter still is that even if said customer spits in your face youre still obligated to remain professional if you wanna be able to keep the bills paid every month.
Like that video on youtube with that lady assaulting the bus driver and him punching the shit out of her and throwing her off the bus, the whole WORLD saw her strike first, yet HE lost his job for defending himself, last i checked self defense was completely legal in the US
I'm okay with Jaffe saying this. He's that guy, and everyone knows it. It should have been expected.
I am worried about his game though. It looks like simple development though so I'm hoping they can make some money but 4 player arena shooter is old school. It's great for some – mainly old schoolers – bit it might struggle to capture any crowd playing CoD.
Guess I'm in the minority. I personally would remain professional. I'm not going to let a few fart heads get into me. These guys are everywhere, YouTube stars, Hollywood, etc. People were raging about DriveClub like pricks, but Evolution studios kept their cool. Sure maybe it may seem okay for jaffe because of his known nature, but imagine if everybody follows suit. We shouldn't have to match people's low, cause it just makes you seem like them, no matter how deserving they are. That's my imo.
If his response were to the comments quoted in the aricle you link to Ben, then I'd say it was a very childish reaction.
I mean,
"It looks like Splatoon. Minus Everything I love about Splatoon."
"Four player maximum arena shooter? Nah, son."
"The art sure takes me back…I don’t know if I like being taken back."
"Why in god’s name would I play a 4-player shooter."
"I think David Jaffe’s entire life is set inside a high school notebook."
"Who keeps letting Jaffe make games?"
"I bet this would be great…back in 1998."
What's so bad about these comments? Seems to be just plain opinions, without being full of hate or rude language. Some of them are even quite witty.
go f*ck yourself
are you kidding me right now? You don't see how those comments aren't constructive?
Yeah because witty never equals negativity…
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 12/12/2014 11:09:25 AM
And that's the problem with the Internet culture, right there. If you really think those comments are "witty," or in any way constructive or polite, we've reached an all-time low in regards to civility and propriety.
Pffft those are not bad at all. Seriously. They are harsh, yes, but man, all of you who reply here now have been meaner than that yourself in the comments field on this very site.
If one stick out their neck like Jaffe does, one *have* to expect feedback like that.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/12/2014 12:56:56 PM
Yes, and he's perfectly entitled to tell them to shove off.
I dunno. If he was a child, perhaps. But as a professional I'd say definitely not. It's just no use to react like that. It has no purpose, no positive outcome can come out of it.
It's like if an actor should spend his evenings online yelling at everyone who accuse him of being a bad actor. Exactly as meaningless.
I agree Beam. And to add, his ego is overly bloated for no reason. I get it…he has made iconic characters and games with the likes of Twisted Metal and GOW. But how long has it been since he revolutionized the industry? When did he last have a hit?
Just like his last game Twisted Metal, his creativity has hit a wall. I hated how dated the mechanics were in the previous twisted metal. And the last sweettooth boss fight? Pissed me off and turned me off from the game. You play the whole game on hard and still breeze through it, just to hit that last level and struggle. I traded that shitty game in the next week.
Granted, that may have been my lack of talent, but I never struggled with a TM game like I did with that one. And the game itself felt like a stripped down version of the ones from PS1 and PS2. It didn't even score well from the vast majority of reviewers.
Getting back on topic, he had major success 15+ years ago with the likes of Kratos and TM…but what has he done since that gives him a right to talk to possible customers like that? I could see if he was like the REAL gaming rockstars like hideo kojima and naughty dog, who always produce at high levels, but the guy is just a faded prodigy who lost his way. (Reminds me of the guy J.P. from the movie Grandmas Boy.)
He is obviously stuck in his ways. He continues to make ps2 styled games for this day and age. Shooter evolved from simple 4 versus arena deathmatches. The cult following isn't like final fantasy's where going back would be beneficial to a lot of older gamers. And he limited himself to an even smaller crowd than that with his art style. Im going to still check the game out because i like shooters and coOp games, but only after hearing more and a price drop if its over $15.
He can't make a game for a niche market and respond the way he did when the MAJORITY don't like it. And when beamboom said that the aforementioned comments against him weren't overly mean, I agree. He could have thrown jabs back without flatout cussing at people. I got a hashtag for him…
#hasbeen
Last edited by PS3_Wizard on 12/12/2014 2:45:13 PM
He hasn't had a great game for awhile. I don't think those games are still feeding his ego though. This is just who he is. This isn't something new. Fact of the matter is maybe he shouldn't have thrown the hash tag, but if people aren't interested in his game then why be negative about it? Maybe his remark was more colorful but to give others a pass who are talking down to him and his creation for basically acting out in the same manner is probably a little contradicting.
I mean it is what it is. I really don't feel like those comments made to him were terrible but it's his project. I also don't feel like what he said was necessary either but he's defensive and has a right to be.
Jaffe is indeed stuck in his ways, I think. He hasn't done anything worthwhile in some time. None of that is relevant as I said in the article it has nothing to do with "earning the right" to behave the way he does.
But yes, you can still tell people to go screw themselves in this world. You really, really can. It's your right to do it, just as it's their right to insult you and your work if they so choose. This is just the age-old "you can dish it out but you can't take it" situation. Insult someone and then whine that they got insulted back. Too damn bad. Maybe if you grew up and acted your age, it wouldn't happen.
I'm probably the most likely person on this site to admit that I can be rude and insulting. Most of the time I have a point to make for an argument one way or the other, but not all the time. Once in a while, I'm just mean.
The difference is I'm not shocked, surprised, or even think another person is in the wrong if I bug them to the point that they tell me to whatever off. If I tell someone I think they're an idiot, I'm not gonna get all offended when they say they don't give a shite what I think. And that right there is the huge difference. I'm not trying to score cool points, wit points, or even gain any kind of favor with anyone. So if they were to bluntly tell me to screw off, I'm not hurt or even bothered.
Heck, sometimes they have every right to say so to me. But people on the internet? I guarantee you people are shaking their finger at Jaffe more than the commenters. That's what is almost humerous to me, if it weren't so depressing how commonplace that attitude is.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/12/2014 10:21:40 PM
Jaffe has always been a hyper-defensive man-child. How insecure do you have to be as a developer to get into a Twitter fight with kids?
he's sad he makes small games now instead of AAA
Moat of those comments probably were not from kids because Jaffe has been around for a while. Most kids wouldn't know him considering his glory days are well behind him. That's not to discredit his ability because he's great at what he does.
However I agree with World to an extent. I remember and article I read where he said he would focus more on mobile, smaller games because that's where the industry is at. So he can only blame himself. Honestly though this isn't the game for Sony to support a ton of. They should get Jaffe to go bigger.
Putting up a hashtag is not "getting into a fight." As usual, the forum peeps think everything is some ridiculous drama.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/12/2014 1:20:31 PM
Come on Ben. If telling people to f*ck off is not inviting to a fight, then what is. Really…
Don't be so hostile to the forum guys.
Last edited by Beamboom on 12/12/2014 3:14:09 PM
He didn't invite the fight. He met the fight, started by idiots. There's a very big difference.
And I have a right to be harsh with people who have proven time and time again to be idiots themselves.
I like how you complain about 'ridiculous drama' yet anytime someone who used to post at the forums (because absolutely nobody posts there now) makes a comment you disagree with, you feel the need to take a dig about them being 'forum people', as if it has any bearing on anything.
Jaffe got butthurt over the fact that not every single person on the internet is excited about his game, and posted mildly snarky comments expressing that, comments that are absolutely tame in comparison to the stuff that gets thrown around these comments sections at times. You know who has made a game that absolutely everybody loved? Nobody, nobody ever.
You know how many developers respond to that situation by telling people to f*ck off? David Jaffe, and only David Jaffe.
Looking at how he acted on stage it seems more like he's cursing to make him sound "cool".
No wonder why Kratos and Sweet tooth are so bad ass…
Jaffe proving why he has been irrelevant for near of a decade. Preoccupied with whining over some faceless dopes' opinions on the internet than producing noteworthy games. I remember when he cried about the reviews for Calling All Cars and that game was mediocre as hell. I love how him saying a curse word means he's "cool" or a "rock star" to some people. Huh? Ok. Guess thats who hes aiming to impress..
Last edited by n/a on 12/12/2014 6:06:04 AM
lol… he's not saying it to impress people.
He didn't write a long drawn-out rebuttal. He just dismissed the comments. How exactly is that "preoccupied?"
I love it. People need to be told off more often. Not because it's the cool thing to do (adults don't do that anymore), but because it's an honest, guttural reaction to childish behaviour in other adults. Don't kid yourselves, Kid and Beam. People aren't commenting like that to be helpful. They're doing it because they think they're being clever. And if people are trying to be counterproductive because THEY are trying to be cool, I have no issue with anyone telling them to go f*ck themselves.
On the other hand, the way Lester handled Boston fans this week was epic. (For those that don't know, he responded directly to what was said while still being unoffensive. Basically told them to go f*ck themselves while being polite.)
ie: Lester on twitter said,
To Red Sox Nation, I understand the disappointment. Boston will always have a big place in my heart and we'll always consider y'all family.
Fan: F*ck you
Lester: appreciate the offer, but I'm all set
He did that all day.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/12/2014 9:37:00 AM
Hell Yeah!!! Thank you, David Jaffe!! Screw the haters and trolls. Spare me that taking the high ground crap.
Sometimes the direct response is the best response.
It definitely diffuses the power insults otherwise might have.
i guess i can see what ur saying but i'm not sure what to say exactly i mean yeah you boys 13 maybe even up to 15 they can be pritty brutal and you usually can't reason with them i understand that i was there once we all were but i think i would say when talking to people like this i think the "do unto others as you would have them do to you" rule applies give respect get respect thats whats going on here as far as i'm concerned so i don't blme him really even if you say professionalism you can be a bit lenient there for this i think
happy gaming