Ben-DutkaSo the PlayStation 4 is coming and nobody can seem to talk about anything else. 🙂
Sony did what they needed to do with the PS4
I know people think I'm criticizing or complaining when I say the new PlayStation shows mostly evidence of a mainstream/casual influence (which is an absolute fact), but I'm merely making an observation. They're expanding beyond the hardcore and niche gaming crowd because they have to; because it'd be financial suicide if they didn't. We were on the verge of the social media, "always connected," and multiplayer explosion when the PS3 came out, and Sony really had to struggle through that launch. This time, they gave us more accessible hardware, which developers obviously love, and a slew of features that are all about enhancing the "user experience," as had been rumored before the system's unveiling.
Do we not recall the information that said the PS4 would be more about "new play options" rather than futuristic specs? Or the leaked bit about the PS4 focusing on "social features?" I'm not saying the PS4 can't satisfy the hardcore crowd, because it doesn't sacrifice anything previous PlayStation platforms had that catered to the hardcore. What I'm saying is that all it added is based on the changing industry, and the fact that the majority of consumers today are casual gamers. That is clearly reflected in what we saw at the PlayStation Meeting. And I'm fine with that. I still want it and Sony simply adapted to the times. So bravo. And again, I'm not necessarily complaining; I'm just stating the obvious.
Anyone else thinking the Xbox 720 will be remarkably similar to the PS4?
After I saw the PS4 announcement, it really did remind more of a Microsoft position, at least in regards to how they approach the gaming consumer. It was more mainstream-oriented, which is precisely how the Xbox has gotten so big in the US. And although we've heard that the new Xbox will be more about connecting to the mobile gaming market (while Sony chose the social media/cloud gaming route), I'm willing to bet the two systems will be awfully similar. Both in terms of specs and features. And that's also the reason I side with some analysts who believe this will be the last generation of consoles. There may be a drastic change after this next generation, in that we might see one universal all-in-one machine that does gaming and just about every other form of entertainment on the planet. At that point, there will be no need for multiple consoles.
So when that analyst said Microsoft needs to bring their "A-Game," I'm not sure that's true. I'm willing to bet Microsoft knew exactly what Sony was going to do, and the two companies are of the same mind right now. The mass market is the mass market. There may be slightly different ways of interpreting it, but the bottom line is that both Sony and Microsoft have to appeal to the same audience. And now, both are very likely on the same page. So don't expect anything too drastically different when the Xbox 720 is revealed, that's all I'm saying.
Personal gaming update
Crysis 3 was really fun but it was disappointing in a way. It's a blast from start to finish, but it did kinda feel like "Crysis Lite," in that it seemed like it was missing something vital…something almost indefinable that the first two entries boasted. It's partly the lack of a significant challenge, partly a bigger emphasis on flash rather than stealth, and partly a more ambitious storyline that falls flat. It's not that the game is bad; I don't give 8s to bad games. That's hardly what I'm saying. But when it comes to Crysis , I think we all expect something more. That's all.
I'd like to maybe finish Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance , because that too is a good game and lots of fun. But for whatever reason, I've gravitated back to one of my favorite guilty pleasures from a couple years ago: NBA Jam . The game is precisely what fans of the old-school games wanted, and how often can we say that this generation? March is big, if you weren't already aware: Tomb Raider , God of War: Ascension , and Bioshock Infinite , to name a few… Get ready! 🙂
Heh, just now basically stated the same point you made about the PS4 design on the last article you wrote about it. 100% Agree 🙂
Next gen has this feel of war. Its going to end a company. I only hope its not Nintendo. If MS goes after Nintendo's crowd its not going to bode well. As for the 720, i stated my opinion earlier. Don't remember which post it was but yeah. I do see what Ben means though. Kind of awkard saying "Ben" because of that story with the "Ben Drowned" Thats a pretty creepy story.
Haven't played much for myself lately. Been to busy. I have been re-playing F.E.A.R 1 though and man. Why can't ALL horror games be like it? I really hope they bring fear 4 to the ps4 and return to that epicness. I love all of the fear games bu fear1 has this appeal that no other horror game has given me. The thought of being killed by enemy soldiers, or being killed by a spirit of unbelievably power. Thats frightening all in its own.
The FEAR games are great but I thought they were light on horror and actually ended up being better FPS than lots of others. They feel so tactical and like you possess a body. 3 was kind of more mainstream but still a cool experience.
I'm a FEAR fan too, I especially love the bucketloads of classic horror movie references in those games. It's almost like walking through a horror movie exhibition. 🙂
But I agree with you Knight, they should return to what made FEAR great. The third were slick, but cramped. They tried too hard.
What a week it was. The Playstation Meeting was basically the funeral service for a lot of my money. Extremely excited about the next generation and what developers will create with it. Who would have thought Capcom could stun as it did with the Panta Rhei demonstration?
I think the hardware of 720 will of course be similar but there's something very important we have to keep in mind and it is the reason I don't see "Microsoft" written on Sony's press conference where others do: the future of gaming is going to be service-based and that puts Sony light years ahead already.
Microsoft got a head start with Live so it was arguably a little better at first but let's not forget that it will be the only online that costs money and they are horrible at support and service. 360 was a cheapy plastic deal they put out quickly and then dumped cash into to defeat Sony, everything else from their hardware failures to their immature service to their lack of customer support to their unwillingness to put money into new software or anything except advertising and exclusive purchasing all says their future will be dictated by a "buy our console because we said so" mentality. MS only spends money to defeat the competition, Sony we already know goes above and beyond to bend over backwards to please their fans and customers so when it comes down to service who do you want to deal with, Sony or Microsoft? Tirade over.
I beat DmC today, what a fantastic game! Ben you should really finish it so you can see what happens with Vergil. Amazing and I hope there are more to come. Everything is totally set up for Dante and his world to become the guy in the place that we already know and love. Ninja Theory deserves mucho respect for that production.
Ben, you may be correct in the sense that Sony did the correct thing for the business – if things go as expected. However, from my point of view as a gamer who's played PlayStation and other games since before most here could tie their own shoe laces, I feel like the fans of the old Final Fantasy games do after This generation's shenanigans by Square Enix. square decided to try to find a new audience and in the process completely left their existing fanbase behind. Never mind that it was those fans that made them.
I feel much the same way about Sony at the moment. The PS3 was rough for Sony for a variety of reasons, and it was their loyal PlayStation gamers that stuck by them that bridged the gap and helped PlayStation survive this generation and succeed despite the problems faced. Our reward for that is the PC4. It's mainstream, casual gamer, social gaming/networking action/shooter, western developer focust is a major departure from the PlayStations we all grew with. An awful lot of what was announced with the PS4 is not for the generation of gamers I am from, very little of it is. There's nothing substantially new for us. I understand the point that many will make about expanding the market and expanding the appeal of the PS4. However, as we have seen before, when that happens, the existing audience, the loyal customers, tend to be left behind because everyone assumes that they will just follow the new standard.
Why should we? If there is nothing new for us, if we're now the minority and gen little consideration, why stick with PS4? Why stick with Sony? I need to be given a reason to care at this point and the only people that can do that are Sony. So far, they have given me reasons not to care.
If Xbox720 turns out to be another PC based architecture in a closed box with an Xbox label on it, we can hammer the last nail in the coffin of the home console because after this there will be no reason for either major console maker to do anything other than have a runtime environment that runs on any sufficiently powerful PC.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 2/23/2013 11:21:01 PM
As a soon to be 33 yr old gamer,none of that social gaming crap interests me at all except maybe the record feature,GTA has some crazy things going on in the background,in gta sa a plane crashed right in front of me & blew cj about 150ft in the air..it was insane!!
Sharing crazy stuff like that with my friends list has an appeal to me.
Last edited by Lord carlos on 2/23/2013 11:42:53 PM
Wow, I didn't know you're so upset at those.
Just wait and see ya?
It's still early.
A game console has to evolve, it can't stay the same for too long.
I'm sure Sony can satisfy us ACTUAL gamers as well as the casuals.
You're passing judgement too early my friend.
Snake, you can be surprised all you like, none of the friends I have spoken to online are in the least enthused by the PS4, and the reasons vary, but a lot of them are the ones I am expressing. If I were to take a straw pole of the friends I have talked to, I'd say it was overwhelmingly negative about the PS4 at this point.
Well I can't change your point of view but hey, I'll remain positive for now even though you're the tech expert here.(Just in case though, I'm not being sarcastic here)
Cheers mate.
I know, and I know I'm out on a limb here, but I'm absolutely serious when I say that all of the friends I have spoken to online in-game share a similar point of view to mine regarding the PC4 – even down to them calling it that as well. It's like I've said, I'm a person who's remained loyal to Sony through a lot, and I'll probably stick with them unless they utterly offend me. But that loyalty isn't blind, and I will be critical of them if I think they merit the criticism. With the PS4 I think they do merit it.
I doubt I will buy a PS4 any time soon after launch, but I will continue to hope for good PS3 and Vita releases, and I will continue to hope that Sony can show me something to make me feel like I'm not left out of their plans and that my kind of game and gamer is not being thrown on the scrap pile in favor of casual & "mainstream" gamers.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 2/24/2013 12:56:45 AM
Not to beat a dead horse but I don't see how we are left behind unless the developers decide to only make PC-style games. Then I would probably have a fit myself.
I don't know bout you but for me, as long as Sony keeps on delivering jaw-dropping games I'm plenty satisfied.
They can go around and cater to those casual gamers for all I care, I only demand the best, and with studios like ND, QD etc. I'm not worried.
Yep, I'm pretty simple-minded, I just wanna have fun that's all, I don't mind the details.
I grew up as a Playstation fan and I'll continue to support the brand that's for sure, but like you, my loyalty or love for PS isn't blind as well.
I once abandon my desire to buy the PS3 because the PS3 "had no games", well, at least, no games that caught my attention, it was in 2007.
But after 2008 with games like VC, MGS4 and Motorstorm:PC, changed my mind and got myself one in 2009.
Because of that, I'll place my trust on the PS4 to blow my mind AGAIN.
But like what you said, I hope our kind of game and gamers are not left out in favor of the casual market.
Now…….you mentioned "mainstream" gamers?
I chuckled at that and the fact that we hardcore gamers are no longer mainstream.
It's sad, but things change.
Not to beat a dead horse either, but I know you don't agree with me or see my point so why bother posting that?
So that I can hear your rebuttal of course, as to why the architecture will ensure the end of Playstation gaming experiences as we have known them.
I've already stated why.
Wow… Can someone seriously be this bitter? I just don't get where all this anger is coming from. If you could tell me i'd be greatful so i could try and understand whats wrong. I'll check back until Ben releases several new posts. I just wanna know whats wrong. I know its none of my business and i know im being nosy but i just don't like reading things that are so negative before something bad even happens. Its like freaking out about 2012. Thats kind of my view on peopls talking bad about the ps4.
Its not even out yet. We dont know much about it yet. Unless your nostradomus or the mayans i dont think its right or fair to judgement things before they happen. Hypothesis's are more than valid of course but at the same time try and keep it possitive or you will only drag yourself down. Mean no offense man just want to know whats up.
There's no denying some of the cool benefits we got from the Cell tech, but I have a simple question for you, Highlander, if I may. Aside from the brilliant Uncharted franchise, which we both enjoyed, do you mind naming some of your favorite games this gen? White Knight Chronicles, Burnout Paradise, maybe some R&C. I'm sure there are more. Now, how many of those games that come to your mind couldn't have been possible on low-medium spec pc's or a 360? I'm not saying the Cell was for nothing, but even if the ps4 tech wise is just a closed box, medium-high end, soon-to-be-outclassed pc does it mean necessarily the end of console gaming goodness? Does it necessarily mean that console gaming will get kicked to the cloud?
So, because one person on this side doesn't have a rosy view of things, you are going to get all upset and feel that the end of the world is nigh? Come on, my opinion isn't that important to anyone.
Gran Turismo 5
Infamous
Heavy Rain
but of course more or less everything we got from PS3 could be done (now) on a decent gaming rig. That's the nature of technology. The problem I have with this horrible little box is that it is a decided ordinary consumer HTPC in a Sony box. Nothing special at all. For it's time PS3 was special, and the games it produced were special. Not so much now because technology caught up. PS4 represents no leap forward beyond ordinary low end PC gaming.
What's interesting to me is the amount of difficulty you are all having because one person doesn't agree that this is all wonderful news. I'm not sure if that says more about how shaky your own opinions are, or how powerful my opinion is. Either way I'm pretty sure my opinion belongs to me alone, and I'm entitled to it, just as you are yours, and that's as far as it needs to go.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 2/24/2013 3:38:24 AM
Just so you know Highlander, I'm cool with your opinion of the PS4 or PC4 if that's what you like to call it. 😉
"I'm not sure if that says more about how shaky your own opinions are, or how powerful my opinion is" well lets be honest, you also said in a previous comment that  "Come on, my opinion isn't that important to anyone". So its probably neither and based on comments you feel the same way.
People respect your knowledge and want to really just understand why you are not as excited as they are. Thats all it is bottom line.
But what I would like to know is where you think the PS4 should be at graphically and if there is anything else hardware wise that would make the PS4 much more (and I mean very noticeably) graphically powerful?
more CPU horsepower, and more GPU horsepower. It's not about the resolution it's about the number of moving objects, particles, effects, physics, textures, depth of focus, filters and post processing of frames. Resolution is pinned at 1080p, memory isn't an issue, the amount of CPU and GPU resource is. Compared to the PS3 this has more – but not as much more as you think, and most of that is in the GPU. I think it's weak in both CPU and GPU. It's low-mid range consumer PC stuff, not much more, it's adequate and little more than that. PlayStation should dare to be more.
I have to agree with highlander here. If Sony is going casual, I'm plenty worried. The games might be grand in scale and prettier, but if they play like Call of Duty, I will fall in a deep coma till Ps5 releases. I'm not a tech expert so I have no idea what the specs can do. To be honest I am a little freaked out by the fact that people will potentially stalk me while I play. You may all call highlander this and that, but when his statements become true and Ps4 can't produce prettier games after 2 years, you will all be looking like idiots. If I don't see quality improvements like Ps3 had, the Ps4 was a failure in my book. I'm not a PC geek, so I won't go the PC route. Lets just just hole for our sake that the Ps4 is a quality machine.
Although you probably answered my question in a way I dont understand (how these things work) I cant help but wonder how much better things can get when QD says the PS4 will allow for quality only seen in CGI before.
And so to honest, and in my opinion, based on what you just said there wouldnt be a huge difference in performance but it may allow for some bragging rights is all. I mean if GoW3 can have 50 enemies on screen and the PS4 allows for more than that, do we really need to see more? Honestly?
And to killa in reference to what I just said, in 2 – 3 years what they showed at the presentation would still be impressive. Furthermore, I really dont think theres hardware out there that will allow for much more than what we seen.
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 2/24/2013 4:20:00 AM
Highlander,
When someone is negative about something the community as a whole is positive about, they are *always* met with a stream of reactions. I get that all the time.
So it's nothing out of the ordinary, Highlander. Nothing to worry about. It's just how it is. 🙂
Killa,
People will NOT stalk you without you knowing it. You will *obviously* have to agree on sharing the view – think how voice chat on the PS3 works.
Jeez, where do people get these ideas?!
Last edited by Beamboom on 2/24/2013 4:24:44 AM
Yes, Beamboom, I know how it is. Since everyone else wishes to have fun worrying about my opinion, I felt like having a bit of fun making them worry about that too.
Hehe – and that makes me worry about you worrying about them worrying about you! 😉
BigRailer,
There's hardware out there that will allow for far, far more than you've seen. For a start there are PC Rigs that can handle real time ray tracing and full 3D rendering using that technique. The amount of texture enhancement and effects that handle things like fabric textures and surface textures as well as the interaction of those textures with light is amazing. There is PC hardware that can handle that. This PS4 doesn't have that hardware.
@Beam,
Who knows man(?) The pictures I took with my devices ended up on my google account in a cloud storage without my consent. Google sync or something? I didn't even know it was on and it was syncing online… for everyone to see… scary…
@big
I think Sony can swing some wands and work some magic if they really wanted to 🙂
I think the ps4 will ultimately be judged on the success of GAMES produced for it. As Sony has asked developers what they want and the ps4 delivers on what devs want, in a way this takes the pressure off Sony. Hopefully no more whining and bug-ridden games from lazy devs who can't or can't bother to come to terms with ps3 hardware.
As far as the social aspect of gaming goes, it's not really my cup of tea, but I understand that Sony want to be relevant to the times we live in. I have faith they will still deliver to the hardcore console gamer. If they don't, I'll likely move on as well.
@ Highlander: I think it's way too early to write Sony off on the ps4.
Last edited by Dukemz_UK on 2/24/2013 7:47:52 AM
One side you say everything that can be done on the ps3 can be done now on a "decent gaming rig", and then on the other hand, you say the ps4 is a "low-medium pc". Do you mean to imply the ps3 is more capable than the ps4?
@Killa Tequila, Google Plus auto syncs your mobile photos to a Private folder. No one should be able to see those photos unless you allow it. Check your settings. I will be investigating if someone can see my photo with authorization. Ill let you know if I find that to be the case. If I remember correctly when you sign in to Google it ask if you want Instant Upload turned on.
Killa,
then you must have clicked on "yes" in a settings dialogue window or something without reading what you agreed on – or you just *think* your files are publicly available cause you seem them yourself. Or something. To make your files publicly available is *not* default behavior of any cloud storage service.
But that said, it *is* easy to do mistakes these days, with the new services becoming more and more powerful.
So I kinda know where you're coming from here.
Last edited by Beamboom on 2/24/2013 11:45:13 AM
Highlander-
Okay, so there might be some pretty powerful hardware out there. But I can only imagaine a) its extremely expensive, making it not so logical for a console; or b) its extremely difficult to develop for and thats why its not main stream, I mean I havnt heard of any pc games that utilize the technology your speaking of. Im trying to think from a logical stand point. Would it be at all beneficial or even smart for Sony to implement such hardware? Logically it doesnt seem like it, based on what we are seeing capable from the PS4.
Sure you made a point in that there is better hardware, but again im looking at games on the market and where they are at and also looking at what we seen in Sony's presentation and honestly I just dont see it getting much better, all things considered.
Bigrailer,
don't worry. It's no wonder you've never heard about it, cause there are no regular PCs with real time ray tracing today.
What highlander talk about here is maybe the Tesla cards from Nvidia. Go google "Tesla K20 Workstation Card" and see for yourself what the price of those cards are. We talk about a price of TEN new consoles. There's no way whatsoever that Sony could put that into the PS4.
Last edited by Beamboom on 2/24/2013 2:44:27 PM
Beam-
Thanks for clearing that up. That was kibd of where I w a s going. It just doesnt appear logical for sony to do that right now.
Highlander, there was never a time when PS3 games looked better than PC games. Sure it was using new technology, and had good looking games, but nothing looked better than PC only games at the time.
This is why I don't understand why you're upset. Consoles have always been behind what gaming PCs can do, with the only difference being that a PC costs more because it can do much more than a console can.
So now that we have the PS4 that is still behind PCs which isn't anything new, you get upset. When in reality the PS1 was behind PCs when it was launched, and so was the PS2, and so was the PS3.
You know they can't afford to make the machine a beast, and sell it at a loss again, yet your still pissed.
Also for being the "tech guy" you have skipped over the part where they customized certain aspects of the PS4, I think it was the memory, and how fast it transfers from the CPU to the GPU but I'm not a tech guy that was just something I remember hearing or reading about it last week.
Either way, this is going to be a step up from the PS3, Killzone looks much better on the PS4 than it ever did on the PS3 and if that was as good as the graphics got who cares. It IS better, and that panta rhei engine capcom made looks great too, same with the Agni engine.
If games can run real time in those that is a HUGE step up from PS3 games so really who cares? You obviously, and thats cool, its cool that you have an opinion.
But you haven't answered my question on any of these threads, and that is. Design your own PS4 with a response to this, give the specs, features, controller design, and mock up how much it would cost.
Because right now you are just saying that its a crap console, and uses low end PC parts, which is mostly true but you haven't tried to say what you would have done if you were in charge at sony and how much it would cost etc.
So do it up. Show us your tech expertise and make the PS4 YOU want, that isn't more than a gaming PC.
Guys, just let Highlander be.
The fact that he refuses to play Ni No Kuni (a game that is exactly up his alley if he'd give it a chance) for the sole reason of "making a point" is really all you need to know.
Let him take his stance. It's important to him. Why try to change him now? He's clearly taken a permanent stance on his views of the gaming empire.
Beam,
About 4 years ago, a dud inside Intel put together a quad SLI configuration with over the counter parts that ran a version of doom3 (I think it was doom 3) that was re-written to ray trace instead of traditional rendering. It ran in real time. IIRC that was about 4 years ago, with more modern CPU and GPU resources that's withihn the capability of an up to date i7 with double GPUs – aka a top notch gaming rig.
Underdog, yes, I have taken a stance on Ni No Kuni, amazing that some people have sufficient will power and principle to take a stand on anything these days isn't it? You should try it sometime.
Xenris, an existing modest gaming rig vs a bought fresh today consumer grade HTPC. there is no inconsistency with what I am saying. And yes for the sake of argument, if you were to give the PS3 the GPU in the PS4, it would produce better results than the PS4 will. The CellBE is a real beast (to use someone else's word), when used correctly.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 2/24/2013 6:37:00 PM
How much does your full spec gaming rig cost Highlander?
I am an advocate for many things all far more important than some undelivered DLC. I can't say I'm bothered by your attempted dig.
Also, I'm probably one of the last people on this site who need to step up my frequency in defending what I think is right in the industry.
lol
Most probably would prefer me to calm the hell down. ;p
Highlander,
there are no regular PCs that are doing ray tracing today. An experiment in a laboratory doesn't change that. You know nothing about what over clocking extremes they had to go to in order to make that work, but I can guarantee you it was not in any way applicable on a consumer machine, not then and not now.
What you are doing now is spreading FUD about the PS4 just because you are such an intense x86 hater.
Over the years you've built yourself a solid reputation around here of being a knowledgeable, trustworthy tech-guy and I think it is unfortunate that you now are using that reputation for all it is worth, in order to spread bad vibes about this new console.
I totally respect your persistence. I even understand the disappointment. But please, don't turn into one of those who you yourself earlier has told have no place on a Sony fan site.
Please.
Last edited by Beamboom on 2/25/2013 4:31:17 AM
So you just would like to swap the Cell into the PS4? Keep the insane ram, the new GPU, and make it work with the CellBE? Interesting, would it be the same Cell processor in the PS3 or an upgrade. How expensive would it be?
Also for the Ni No Kuni thing, taking a stance is fine. But I will let you know this much, all the DLC that was released in Japan was free, and we got that incorporated into the western release. That is what I have been seeing on the message boards over at gamefaqs.
So at least this time if you bought it even used, you wouldnt have to worry about buying DLC.
@xenris,
There is a successor to CellBE already that increases the double precision FP performance of the Cell by a factor of at least 4, and also boosts single precision FP performance. Plus all 8 SPEs are available. That alone would have been a substantial upgrade. It's not a brand new design, Sony has rights to it, it's already in manufacture. Pair it with a new GPU and look out.
Interesting. I wonder why they chose the path they did? Maybe they wanted to make it easier for all the third party devs?
I do think they should have stuck with the cell, but maybe they really needed to cut the budget for this PS4 because of their financial situation?
Now I understand more where you are coming from which is all I wanted from my replies to you.
Now I just need to convince you to get Ni No Kuni used because its great 😛