Ben-DutkaNormally, I'm not quite so blunt with my headlines. But I have to admit, this topic is just begging for extreme bluntness.
I really wouldn't care if the new round of consoles blocked used games. Not in the slightest. I wouldn't care what sort of fancy-dancy features they came with, provided I had games I wanted to play and there was, at the very least, a noticeable increase in general technology. But there are two things I will not stand for.
The first is if they decide to make the machines all-digital and physical media goes out the window. I like my game collection and I like the fact that I can touch my game collection. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors, as far as I'm concerned. The second thing that could be a deal-breaker for me is if the console must be "always-connected" in order to function.
Yeah, forget it. If we've finally reached a point in this industry where I always have to be "connected" to enjoy a game every now and then, I'll find some new hobbies. Okay, maybe that's a little strong; I'm relatively certain I'll be playing games in some capacity until I'm dead (could only be a few hours a week, but I'll likely still play). But the idea of forced connection chafes me in all the wrong places. Forgive me for being a dinosaur but in many instances, I game to get away from things.
Now, you could make the argument that an Internet connection doesn't mean you're actually connected to anybody, and that you can just as easily "get away" in your living room with an always-connected console. But I'm sorry, I really don't see it that way. Furthermore, not everyone has an Internet connection in this world and even if they did , they have to rely on this to play a game, or get a game? You know, this digital stuff is neat and everything, but it's like the fact that my car only has push-button ignition and no standard key.
…I've found that once you reach a certain point in technology, common sense gets left behind.
I agree wholeheartedly about both those points. All digital just isn't something I would be proud of displaying as well my internet connection isn't the fastest so to download every game I want would take a very long time. I also like going to whichever store and actually picking up my games.
Secondly the always connected point just seems somehow not right to me. I don't want my machine always connected, feels like I'm being watched or something. As well, like Ben said, not everybody has an internet connection and even if they do maybe they don't want it connected for one reason or another.
Last edited by SixSpeedKing on 4/13/2012 10:25:33 PM
Gotta admit, I agree with you 120%!
I like my game collection. I like touching what I own. I have an MP3 player… But I also have CDs, and even records! I can honestly say, I have listened to a record less than 3 weeks ago. Last year, I actively sought out and bought 4 specific records (2 brand new, 2 as collectibles), and have also collected probably thousands of others over the years as impulse purchases when I just happened to spot them. There is something great about having a shelf filled top to bottom with the games and movies and music you love.
I also agree with the internet connection issue. I live in a rural region. I have good internet, but my father has never had a COMPUTER (I have), and even when i was still at the farm, the best we ever had was 56k… That's still true. If he ever DID get a computer, and did get internet, his location would only permit dial up. I turn away so many PC customers with one simple question… "Do you have high speed internet".
I have already decided…
1: I WILL NOT buy a Sony or Microsoft console if they discriminate against rural customers, or those who don't have internet, or who's internet is slow.
2: I will not reward these companies with a single penny if they insist on taking away my right to resell a game I don't want anymore.
3: I will not give them a dime of my money, if they won't give me a physical game to purchase and hold in my hands. I am not opposed to DLC as an option, or even for some games to only be distributed as DLC. I bought Flow and Journey. I also WAITED for the GOTY/Ultimate editions of Fallout 3, FO:NV, Borderlands, Red Dead Redemption, and LBP 1 and 2. I prefer the discs over the download.
4: I've learned to NOT TRUST SONY. They have already shown that they are not afraid to take away things we have paid for. I used Linux, and SPECIFICALLY made the decision to buy my PS3 BECAUSE it could double as both a Game console, BluRay player, and a New PC. I needed a new PC, as my old one was then, and STILL IS from 2004. I've learned that Sony isn't afraid to lie and lawyer their way, and isn't afraid of screwing their customers. I've learned that ANYTHING from Sony can carry a risk. Remember RootKit music CDs anyone? I simply don't trust Sony enough to let all my content be digital. I won't let them have that level of control over me.
In short…
Sony has broken my trust, and they seek to make me even more weary of their next console!?!
No thanks.
Same goes for Microsoft's next machine. I'll avoid it like the plague too if they pull any of the same horseshit. I plan on getting a Wii U, so My Mom can keep the old Wii and I can finally play Zelda. I will keep my PS3 and 360, and finally catch up on that backlog of games I've paid for and never touched. I have a reserve of unplayed games that spans over every generation. Maybe I'll finally finish Panzer Dragoon Saga on my Saturn, or Chrono Cross on my PS1. I can finish the HOARDS of PS3 and 360 games that I bought and set aside.
I'm perfectly OK with Sony and Microsoft suffering horrifying losses in the next generation.
Gaming got bloated and overrated in 1983 and the result was a video game market crash. I think it's about time for one of those. I still say 2 consoles is enough. I will but Nintendo's console. It looks to be a reasonable system, with fair customer treatment by the company. I say we let Sony and Microsoft duke it out for survival. I couldn't care less if one of them fails and leaves the gaming market. The other will just reabsorb what is lost by the absence of the one, and will become stronger as a result. I WANT to see Sony and Microsoft squirm if they make these mistakes. I WANT to see them have abysmal sales. I want to laugh at them for being so out of touch with reality.
I'm calling it. Video game crash of 201x
Nintendo survives by being sane and lower cost, and respecting it's customers, and having good quality 1st party titles. Sony and Microsoft make great initial sales, but then the complaints start and sales plummet. Some folks with no internet will file a class action against them. Sony will fight it tooth and nail. If one of the companies relent and kill the persistent online with a firmware update, they will already be poised for a lead in the market. If one company refuses to change and the other does… DOOOOOM!!!
That…
Or people could be stupid sheep and buy the tool of their addictions anyway, and continue supporting companies that grow more and more unethical every year. Call of Doodie 13: Shoot innocent people again for the againth time cuz it's edgy and cool, and not and airport this time, IT'S A MALL!!!
I'll continue to be a gamer going where all my favorite games are. Whether that's digitally delivered, online enabled, or whatever. I love great games. It doesn't mean I like the idea of an always-on connection, but if that's what it takes to play the games I enjoy most. I'm GAME.. heheh "Im game" =D okay, shut-up.
…it was FUNNY!
Who knows what will happen with the new set of consoles. One thing i do know is i cannot wait for this rumors to be corrected!
Like Temjin I admit I will follow wherever this medium goes, but yeah that doesn't mean I like it. My connection is wireless, it cannot get closer to the router, and it is f*cking slow for downloading things. It takes an unreasonable amount of time to download a PS1 classic already and I hope console makers know that giving gaming to those with strong internet alone is like cutting the legs off their user base.
I already hate the idea that I need to be connected in order to get patches for games that are released before being finished.
What scares me is I bet everyone is seeing dollar signs from sales of extra hard drives due to all-digital gaming. At least I know we should survive 1 more generation with physical media.
Yep, sort of like the toggle scrolling bar here at PSXe. I still hate it but I come here anyway 😉
oh God… I know…
Yeah, that "toggle Scroll" button is my one & only hated feature of PSXE.
Just a suggestion, but the website guy really needs to either get rid of the #%&*^$ toggle scrolling altogether, or at least fix it so that when you hit it to go off, it stay's frigging off, & not just keep popping back up every other minute.
As it is now, if I either make a post, or if I even check out a poster's inner link, I've got to re-hit that TS button up to 7 different times, and that's just in one thread alone.
"Please, please, please fix it"
Maybe if we send Ben cupcakes he'll fix it 😉
Maybe if we tell him he's right about used games ending the gaming industry he will fix it.
there just needs to be a splash page shown upon entering the website for that, "Do you think GameStop is evil?"
Yes
No
Pressing yes let's you into the site and pressing no results in "access denied"
…." You're also banned!"
Heehe =p
Last edited by Temjin001 on 4/14/2012 3:11:35 PM
I dunno about Ben,
……….
………
But I can say with 100% certainty that -I'm- 100% correct about it.
hehehehehhehehe >:D
Sooo, if PSN servers go down like they did last year. Does that mean nobody will be able to play their games?
LOL, imagine that!
Last edited by Mog on 4/13/2012 11:51:09 PM
It does seem unlikely that, after suffering through that event, Sony of all companies would make a console that *requires* a connection to function.
The PS3 is actually "always connected", providing you have an internet connection, even if you aren't signed in to PSN. You can tell because your newly gained trophies will have the correct time even if you have your local clock set to a different time.
Actually there WERE some games that would not play when that happened, they needed to sync trophies online before they would run.
Until everyone can get internet, this is not only a stupid business decision but I just don't see happening. They could do it, sure but they really Need to look at the amount of consoles sold, and those connected. The xbox numbers might be skewed because of the early fail rates but none-the-less.
Like I have said before. Take away the backward compatibility, make people pay a little extra to be able to play used games (online component), but the connectivity feature does not work. Ubi tried it and failed miserably. And what if I am at the cottage and its raining, I've read all the books, played all the board games… maybe I want to play a video game with friends or family. So now I have to have an internet connection at my cottage? Nuts to you!
I too love my games. I like being able to shop in the store and pick one up and buy. I have a few DL games but they are small time wasters for me. I like have the physical backup of my game.
As always though they will try something once and when it fails fall back on the more reliable modes. Heres hoping they will skip trying.
Keep Playing!
I just wish I had a cottage.
In the area I live at, when it rains (not thunderstorms–just simple rain), my internet cuts out. So I agree with this issue in that an must-always-be-connected console is a BAD thing. If that was the way it is, when it started raining I would be forced to stop playing games entirely? No thanks, I'll choose someone else's product in that case.
Also, not too far away from me is a countryside area where there is No/none/nada/zip/ziltch high speed internet available. They would cut out entire areas of customers like this just by forcing online-only consoles.
I don't understand.
Isn't you guys PS3s today already always connected? Or do you manually log into psn each time you want to check out the store or messages? And if so: Why??
Aren't your PCs always connected? Or do you pull the network cable out every time you are done with it or manually log onto the wireless internet to check the mail and then immediately log off again?
Don't you own a smart phone? That computer is always connected, too.
Sure, if you don't have an internet connection then that sucks hard, but for far more severe reasons than gaming. But I just don't get this apparent *fear* of "being connected", like being connected in itself is unwanted!
Last edited by Beamboom on 4/14/2012 1:22:18 AM
I have my PS3 set so that it doesn't log on to PSN automatically because I want to control when I am connected. If I'm playing a single-player game, I'd rather not have PSN notifications breaking my sense of immersion. I also don't *always* want to be monitored by or available to my PSN friends. I find it easier to sign in and out than to change my notifications settings.
And no, I don't have a smart phone (or a PC, for that matter).
Last edited by Fane1024 on 4/14/2012 1:49:51 AM
Well to me the *FeAr* is that by *always connected* they would make games only playable when you are connected. Like Ubi started doing on PC like retards.
I really hate the idea that I pay for a game and am always at the mercy of their (companies) will and the simple push of a button cuts my access to the game I paid for. Also the same if my ISP goes down… Geh thinking about it makes me want to rip all their heads off XD
You are missing the point of this argument. Yes, most of us do have a constantly connected PS3, but we are not REQUIRED to do so. Almost all games will still work, whether we are connected, in a metro area, or at the North Pole. Then there are ones like Bionic Commando Rearmed 2, which have no online segments, yet REQUIRE an Internet connection. Guess what owners of that single-player, offline game were able to do while PSN was down? Absolutely nothing. It was broken.
An always connected REQUIREMENT is a BARRIER to access. It is one more hurdle that companies want to put in our way, in order to access products for which we have paid, taking freedom away from us.
Imagine if, to drive a car, you first had to place a phone call to the DOT, enter your license plate number to ensure that you're allowed to drive, and this locks the car to your license, ensuring that no other driver can ever use it; you must tune your radio to a certain station and hope that you never lose the signal or the car will stop and die; and once you want to replace it, you are compelled to send it to the junkyard with no option of selling it, and are forced to buy a brand new, fresh from the factory new car at full price.
That doesn't sound very appealing, does it? That is what all this nonsense is doing to games.
Last edited by ProfPlayStation on 4/14/2012 8:32:39 AM
I would agree if it indeed was a barrier, but that's my entire point: My thesis is that pretty much everyone *already* are always connected with their ps3 , so there's no real difference. My gut feeling tells me I am correct in assuming so (although some log off psn now and then – that's just a minor technicality and that option will remain also with an "always connected" requirement) – they just haven't thought about it that way or something.
And just to be clear: I am very much against taking away the possibility to trade games. *That* is user restriction on an enormous scale. To take that away from us is a much, MUCH larger hurdle than to require connectivity.
Last edited by Beamboom on 4/14/2012 2:01:25 PM
Not everyone or every device is "connected". When I make my business trips to California most of the hotels require I pay extra to access their network and even then some of their network setups aren't always compatable with my gaming devices. The friend I stay with in Cali doesn't have Internet in her house. So no connection means no PS4 at here house or in most hotels if this "always connected" requirement becomes the norm. There is a huge difference with this than there are smart phones. When I went on tour in Europe I turned off my Internet connection and phone service. Basically I put the phone in airplane mode to avoid data and calling charges. Though I was still able to use my phone as an iPod, camera, gaming station, movie machine etc without it being "connected"
Requiring that a game console such as the PS4 to always have an Internet connection in order to function at all is mindblowingly stupid.
Last edited by Jawknee on 4/14/2012 6:10:27 PM
I believe it is more DRM to make it more difficult to run CFW's.
THey have done a similar thing with the Vita in that you can not transfer files to or from your PC and the Vita without being connected online.
So basically Sony can prevent you from modifying the unit, running emulators, homebrew, ISO's…
@Jawk: Yes but the ps4 is not something you'll bring with you on hotel rooms or to the north pole. It's a stationary box planted in your livingroom. That's a major difference. I too would be annoyed had I had a mobile device that required internet to be used. But that, to me, is an entirely different discussion.
@Palpa: We don't really discuss *why* the online requirement will be there, but yes it's probably a combo of DRM and to get rid of the used games market. But if we read how Ben word it here it looks like it's the connection in *itself* that is an issue here, and that's what I ask about: Aren't your ps3 already always connected today?
I just don't understand that frustration behind the "take it and SHOVE it" outburst.
Last edited by Beamboom on 4/15/2012 2:06:12 AM
Beamboom, always being connected is terrible for these reasons. But first let me say I understand your angle but trust me the downside to your console essentially NOT working when your not connected is insanely flawed, and here is why.
What if your internet goes down? You can't even get your machine that you paid for to fire up because it says something like, error internet connection not detected please check your connection bla bla bla.
What if you go over your monthly ISP data usage? Being constantly connected means that there has to be small amounts of streaming going on so your internet bill could end up going through the roof if your unfortunate to live somewhere(which I do) that has a BS low data cap of about 60gigs a month. Which if your gaming a lot, and all games are digital…well at 2 bucks a gig after the initial 60 are used games start becoming ludicrous in pricing.
Ubisoft tried this already and it FAILED so hard. Splinter cell conviction had almost no people able to play coop because if your internet connection so much as hiccuped it would boot you. Not to mention all of the bugs that came with this, sometimes you were connected but their servers were messed up well guess what? You can't play because their servers are under maintanence. This applied for single player too mind you. You couldn't even play SP if this happened. Sound fun?
Lastly the main problem with this is that while a lot of people do have internet connections you assume a lot in saying that we are all already connected. I a lot of times unplug my ethernet cable from my PS3 just so I don't have to deal with people. Or if there is a storm and my internet goes to crap I can still enjoy a good SP game.
The ONLY way this would even remotely work is if they followed a model similar to what Steam does. Essentially your always connected but if your connection dies you just go into offline mode, so you can still play all of your SP games it just effects your ability to play MP. You can even choose to start steam in offline mode, if you choose and still enjoy all your SP games.
These are the issues with this.
P.S. Fane….if you don't have a PC or Smartphone….um…how…are you on this board O_o
Beam, but I do bring my PS3 with me on most of my travels. Just not touring.
its not fear boom, its a BS concept , period.
idc that its of no consequence , the way i see it , they are FORCING me to pay not only the game itself but an internet service to ACCESS my 60 dollar single player game?
its a bad idea, period and one that will push me away from gaming finally …i dont want to stop being a gamer but if this is the new era they can all go to hell
Again, me… canadian… No unlimited internet… To hell with an all digital media system. And no used games? Ok I'm not the richest guy in the world and sometimes a lower price on a used game allows me to buy a game that I want. What? a game is going to sit in the ps store and stay the same price forever? Ok ya some games on psn do go down, but look at socom confrontation, $29.99 still? u can get it at the store for like $10. If any of these features come to pass then I'm sorry but I'll turn my back on Sony. I can be loyal, But not to a company who doesnt look at the issues some of us have in the world
I'm Canadian, and I have unlimited internet.
Switch services!
If this happens to 720 and PS4 it will be the same day that the hardcore who started on NES will look to Nintendo and go "Yeah we were with ya the WHOLE time!"
But seriously, it could become an issue at some point because big brother will want to have something that authenticates your games before they begin. That whole "you don't own what you buy" thing.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 4/14/2012 2:50:40 AM
The whole concept of having to be connected to the Internet to play a game is absurd. I don't think SONY would ever consider doing that. Not every body has a connection, and those who do don't have a connection all the time. It's just a dumb rumor. Any console maker that tried it would be digging their own grave. Common sense people!!!
this, the used game block and specs are exactly why i cant believe the "leaked" specs.
$ony are stupid, but there not stupid enough to force people to be online to play their games, force them spend more on new games over used, and
while asking them to sacrifice all that offer so little in return advancement in tech wise.
$ony are stupid, but there not THAT stupid!
well i would like to think so.
i said that when rumours were coming out that 8 days and the getaway 3 were put on hold for crappy eyepet too.
so i guess anythings possible!
See, if the government would just go MGS4 on us and implant nano machines into us at birth that identified our person, the game industry could just have their games self tether themselves to us via embedded radio frequency.
Muwahahahaha
plus you could locate your kids in case they kidnapped by a rival Ninja gang.
rumours are rumours i don't believe in "the source" crap until i hear Sony annouce their stuff then i just go blah blah on all of this.
Sony let me warn you guys. First, its not anywhere in the world that has Internet connection, or steady connection lk some part of Afcica. Secondly Internet charges are even more expensive than g digital games. If u try it thats d end of PS4 or wat ever u call it
I'm always "on" whenever I'm using my 360 or PS3, but that's by choice.
But I don't want that option of whether or not I decide to be on-line or not, whenever I want, to be taken away from me.
When I'm on, I'm constantly being kicked off and logged back in.
World,
Yeah, that's happened to me about 3 times too so far & both my 360, & my 2 Ps3's are directly hardwired to my router through 10 foot Ethernet cables.
But I'll tell you what's even worse….it's an never-ending battle to stay signed in on my 360. It constantly throws me off XboxLive while I'm watching Netflix movies which also winds up stopping Netflix in it's tracks, and also disconnects me from "messenger" too(not that I message many people anyway).
Here is a VERY SAD but True comment, always connected= NOT for me & All Digital goes out the window as well, the reason for this and YES this is the VERY SAD Part I live in the country and I have NO high speed internet out here.
I feel the "always-connected" idea would really be the nail in the coffin for gaming. The people that don't have internet would simply play last gens games and all the previous gens games(just a opinion), but the people that have limited internet would be hurt the most. I couldn't imagine some of the bills that would make the rounds on the internet when a kid forgets and leaves there system running while on vacation or something along those lines. It wouldn't be long before lawsuits would be coming from everywhere, similar to the roaming charges with cellphones.
The digital only thing obviously is not going to happen(at least not next-gen). Look at the PSP GO, it was there to test the waters of the idea and yeah anyone that looks at that and says BINGO! that is what we need to do should be fired. I mean, I guess if your willing to lose millions upon millions of customers then go for it, but in my opinion it would be financial suicide at this time.
Steam already makes people login to their servers to play games that they payed for. Since I got half life from steam, I need to have an internet connection to play it. Kind of creeps me out actually.
I'm with the no crowd on a connection being required to game in singleplayer titles,that's one thing I really hate about steam.
But beyond that,
the day consoles don't play used games is the day I go exclusively PC.
And this is coming from someone who grew up with the NES and genesis, and didn't have a decent pc until a few years ago.
Used games make up about half my purchases and I have never bought an online pass.
Last edited by Nerull on 4/15/2012 7:04:32 PM
Plus the memory storage that would be taken up by each downloaded game… Gonna be a fairly sizeable file/files and if they say "oh well we'll increase memory capacity" then they'll likely charge more if not by desire, then by necessity from hardware costs. Plus it wouldn't feel like a games console it would feel like a torrenting machine that just had the ability to run gaming software. It'd be more like a game downloader than a game console and once the memory starts getting less and less that'd mean less game saves/in-game content saves (like replays) – eventually having to delete full games when you mightn't want to otherwise not being able to get a new game… Just no Sony.. No!
Terrible idea. Companies make plenty of bad decisions, but I doubt someone with the level of stupidity needed to do this can actually reach a position of authority. Requiring an internet connection to play would hurt sales a lot more than used games or piracy could.
There's too many people without an internet connection, and I know that at least some PS3 owners don't bother with routers, so they don't have a psn account (two of my friends, I would imagine they're not the only ones in the world like this).
Then there's the fact that it would mean any network downtime for any reason would piss off a lot of people. Besides that, no matter how dependable they were, they can't guarantee the connection itself won't go down due to a storm/accident/crappy isp/etc…
Personally, I think even if they did require a constant connection, the consequences would make them change it with an update pretty quickly. I'm no businessman, but even I can tell what an incredibly bad idea this would be.
P.S. The title of this article is made of win, I have no other way to describe it. 😀
Yeah i agree with you on that one Ben. And with the current state of internet connectivity being one of the crappiest in the world in North American…. I don't think were ready for an always connected or fully digital shift yet… give it 10-20 more year imo and then wel see.
Yeah, I hate the idea that if my internet goes down, then my console is little more than a paperweight. While it may be pretty common for people to have an internet connection, Sony and Microsoft can't expect it to be mandatory just to play any games at all.
If Microsoft is smart, they would make the "antipiracy always connected" portion associated with a 3g chip, that way it's always on and forever invisable to the user. The online gaming portion would, of course, still require your internet connection, so nothing different there.
but then, their coverage area better cover the entire globe if they plan to sell worldwide.
While my console is always connected, its not mandatory just to play games. As it should be.