Ben-DutkaI keep forgetting that it's 2012. I have to stop writing 2011 on everything.
Genre blending: a good thing or not?
Those comments by Hitman: Absolution developer IO Interactive concerning the changing stealth genre really got me thinking. I distinctly recall a time when most games could easily fall into one category. It would take all of five seconds to categorize most any given title. But as technology has advanced, designers have been able to implement a variety of gameplay mechanics, meaning the lines between genres are getting blurrier by the second. It's just that so many gamers remember a time when, for example, stealth was stealth. You couldn't play Metal Gear Solid with a run 'n gun attitude. It's just not possible (at least, not really).
And so, when we see all this action-oriented gameplay in titles like Absolution , fans of the genre get all bent out of shape. They're not realizing that the action should be – according to the devs – entirely optional . It's just an expansion; i.e., more choice for the player. But do you think this is a good thing? Or would you rather have more defined genres as we used to have? It was a little more straightforward, after all…
It's true that all major regions are different, but…
I'm not sure I like Sony's statement about how you can't predict anything based on the Japanese launch of the PlayStation Vita. I mean, first of all, Japan really seems to love their portable electronic devices, so if a handheld doesn't fare well there, I'm not sure it'll explode elsewhere. Secondly, while I certainly understand the inherent demographic and cultural differences, you can't tell me there's nothing to be learned from the Vita launch in Japan. We shouldn't be passing judgment or making far-reaching predictions just yet, but in many respects, gamers are gamers. A gamer who likes handheld entertainment in Japan can't be that much different than a fan of handheld entertainment elswhere…can he?
Me, I don't want to complicate the issue. I just think that despite all the considerations and factors, it really comes down to price and available games. It seems the Vita has the games, but the price may be somewhat restrictive. There's also the question of mobile gaming (tablets, phones) versus dedicated handheld gaming devices, but let's face it: if the Vita was a hundred bucks, it'd sell like mad, right?
Personal gaming update
I'm at the end of Gears of War 3 (I think) and I guess I'll have to be on the lookout for Final Fantasy XIII-2 in the next few weeks. I liked a few things about the playable demo , like the fact that the game isn't automatically over if the leader dies, but I have plenty of reservations. I'm just not that excited about it. However, although it's too heavy on the QTEs, that Asura's Wrath demo was pretty wacky. Games that are so unabashedly over-the-top are really quite entertaining in a lot of ways; sorta refreshing in a way, too. One always thought all video games would head in this direction back in the '80s; every single game had an over-the-top theme then.
Not much else to report, although I should add that after 7 years with my old cell phone, I finally caved and got a new one. They were offering the Samsung Stratosphere 4GLTE for free with a two-year contract (and there was an upgrade available on our family plan). So whatever; $30/month for 4G worth of data, which I'll never use up, and $10/month for the insurance. I can live with that. But don't ask if I'm sitting in the living room playing games on it. If I'm playing games in the house, it's on the freakin' TV. 😉
I think it bastardizes the genre when you make too many things "optional". If I want to play a stealthy game then I want those restrictions on me where it can't just turn into an out of control shootout, or if it does then a stealth game's parameters should try to keep me in line.
It kills the fun of playing a game in a genre if it is too flexible, unless it's something like Skyrim. Genre blending has killed so many franchises this gen.
I'm still gonna get FFXIII-2, it may not be what I want but it resembles a JRPG and it should be pretty good. I just hope my CC company hurries up with that Amazon gift card I exchanged my points for.
No offense to Vita fans but I think dedicated handhelds are just about finished now that everyone has their tablets and smart phones. I hate touchscreen tech for games but I guess the current market doesn't.
I disagree with you about Vita. While I do believe the dedicated handheld market is shrinking I don't think it is going anywhere. I believe it will eventually become more of a niche market but I don't believe touchscreens will ever be able to replicate dedicated controls.
I don't think they will replicate those controls either, but if you can't sell a handheld gaming system to the Japanese you're in big trouble.
@PasteNugges: Who said there will only be touchscreens on the smartphones for all eternity? I would not be surprised if we see dedicated controls as some sort of accessory to phones pretty soon.
Screw phones. Phones = call and work related stuff / agenda. Using it for games is just a waste of precious battery.
Tablets are another thing though but I'd rather have a laptop. New slim and slick asus laptops are pretty neat and pretty much the same price an Ipad 2 64gb is… But you get to do much more. Tablets are for PC newbs who don't want to bother learning how to use one. Pretty much sums it up… Ain't really a bad thing but I don't think your mom will ever play real games on a tablet. She doesn't care. Much like 80% of the tablet users. They use it to check mails… Read the online news… And show pictures to their family.
Leave gaming to the real deal: Gaming handhelds.
PS: I am part of the market and I'll never buy a phone or tablet for games. And the phone and market you are talking about mostly do not give a crap about games. They buy it for it's main fonction: phone. Or for the tablet: Pc extension. I am sure most gamers feel the same way. It's the same as what happened with the Wii. Casuals are getting into it and falsify the numbers. Lots of Wiis out there but I bet there is much less *real* gamers on em than on PS3 or Xbox. Mostly casuals who want to exercise XD. Just like phones… Mostly casuals who *angry bird* their free time. (Gotta say though these days I see alot of fruit ninja in the subway too. lol)
Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 1/15/2012 2:56:31 PM
Casuals outnumber us.
I think you guys only look at what mobile phones are today without taking into consideration their rate of development. At the current rate the phones and tablets will outperform the Vita in just a year or so. The graphics chipset inside the Vita is already yesterdays news on the tablets.
I'm sorry to be the messenger of bad news here but no matter where your heart belongs: Do *not* underestimate the iOs and Android based platforms. That is a huge mistake.
Last edited by Beamboom on 1/16/2012 11:11:14 AM
I don't mind the genre bending so long as they leave the original formula alone. Just give me new options. Not like FF where they are trying to completely change it into an action game.
As for the Vita. I'm not to worried. I think it will pick up in Japan once it gets some jrpgs on it. I know I will be getting it day 1 or shortly after. I got a nice surprise in my mail today. I had an escrow surplus so I may just go preorder it this week
PGU: I finished Ace Combat this week and now I'm on stage six of Catherine and it just got a lot harder. I'm loving the game though. The controls are little touchy sometimes though. After that I think ill dig into Alice: Madness Returns or go back to Mortal Kombat and finish that.
Alice is awesomeness 🙂
Yes it is. When I had PSplus I played the trial and fell in love with it so a month later I got it for my birthday from my girlfriend because I kept talking about it. Which is weird because she never buys me games but just must of new how much I loved it.
I know this is totally off-topic but I thought this would be a good article to comment on.
I was looking around on Facebook to see if there was a like page for psxetreme.com, and there wasn't any. so I went ahead and made one! if you are on facebook, go ahead and "like" it for me at https://www.facebook.com/pages/PSXExtreme/346665845344912. When I get 25 likes I'll be able to form a personal URL so it will be easier to share. Ben, if you were willing, I would definitely appreciate if you could maybe advertise the page a bit. 🙂
If anybody has any comments/concerns/ideas, go ahead and lemme know 🙂
Cool, much appreciated.
I don't do Facebook, though. …although maybe I should for the sake of the site.
It's got a lot of potential to be used as a great advertising for the site and to bring in more readers. You can do polls and discussion boards and pretty much anything else you need.
I just liked it.
#14 who "liked it"
Already there, friendo!
Me too.
I think MGS4 pulled it off very well. MGS has always allowed for action, but it never worked as well for a player until MGS4. Well speaking of genre blending, I really got that vibe from FFXIII-2. I can jump. Jump?, Yes, with a button, too. I can also be the first to attack an enemy that pops out at me by quicly slashing it. Oh, there's also a sizeable dose of QTE in there. Anyway, I don't want to sound like a downer. My initial 10min with the demo had me having to really put my faith in the standards of FF. I was put off by the somewhat rough looking and performing demo, which I will say better be cleared up for it's actual release, or I'll suspect S-E's technical standards have been lessened. Anyway, I think I can have fun with the monster rancher stuff. I sort of liked it, even if it felt bizzare for an FF game. And I hope I'm not stuck with two characters that I don't find particularly "my type" through the game. The skinny girl nearly might as well be Vannelle and blue pants boy has me thinking Kingdom Hearts' older brother, or something. They aren't bad, but wouldn't be first choices for personality when forming a party. I did, however, use Vanelle as a primary healer in FF13. Anyway, Asura's Wrath is pretty insane. I think the game play basically sucks and seems nearly pointless to have me push anything but the fireworks sure are insanely over the top. C2C did the same sort of insanity with Naruto games. But cell-shading is definately their M.O. because Asura basically looks like poop.
ANyway, aside from those two demos I squeezed in, I've played practically nothing. I'm just so busy with school and stuff.
My Ps3 stopped reading Bluray discs. It reads CDs and DVDs but no Blurays. I have a non-BC 80 gig fat PS3. It suspiciously happened after the 4.00 firmware update. And I just got Heavy Rain, Dragon Age Origins and White Knight Chronicles 2. Stuck with my PS2, replaying Okami now.
If anybody knows what can I do I'd really appreciate any suggestion.
Sucky
You can always try the old PSX trick. Turn the system upside down. It worked for me back then =p
My 60gb did the same thing. Played movies and and CDs, but no blue ray. The blue ray laser is dead.
I heard that you can get the piece if hardware that reads the Blu-rays for like $60 off eBay.
Theres probably some YouTube videos out there or try googling a quick fix.
Edit: I googled PS3 laser repair and a good step by step video came up. I watched It and it is fairly easy, and only take about 10 min. Also found some other websites and forums saying they fixed it without getting a new laser but I didn't look into those, because I don't know how reliable that is or would be.
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 1/15/2012 4:35:53 AM
@hellish
It does sound like a potential laser problem BUT I ran into the exact same problem on one 60gb PS3's…I bought GE lens cleaning disc at by local video store and used it. IT WORKED!!! So there is some hope.
Now I did have a Blu ray laser failure on another 60gb machine and nothing could help it.
The blu ray laser failure happened to my Sony refurb unit they sent back to me approx 7 months after I sent my first 60bg off for repairs. I did not even get a year out of the Sony refurb!!! 🙁
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/15/2012 5:05:43 AM
Thanks for the advices guys. I think I will try to clean the lens, if it doesn't work, I will get it new laser, put it and sell it for about 300$. I live in south america, prices are higher, but since mine cannot be jailbroken (ver4.00, only 3.55 can be jailbroken) and so, there are not many consumers who want a legit PS3. Oh well, if I sell it for 300$, I'll wait till some relative from the US comes and ask for a 250$ 120GB PS3.
And this sucks because it happened just after christmas and black friday and all the sales time.
Last edited by hellish_devil on 1/15/2012 9:25:32 AM
I see a very important dichotomy between what we've heard about the new Hitman and what's happening with Final Fantasy. While both franchises appear to be introducing new gameplay in an effort to expand their audience, Hitman at least seems to care about their fans enough to keep the original gameplay at the core and adding in the new things as options. Whereas Square, judging from the XIII-2 demo, just lies to their fans, doctors up the stuff people complained about with the appearance of fixing them, and then just hopes that everyone will be too stupid to realize that nothing of any consequence changed.
As long as devs do what Hitman is apparently doing and keeps the original gameplay at the center, I don't mind genres bending a bit. More options are rarely a bad thing.
As for the Vita, I'm also not buying Sony's claim that you can't tell anything from the lackluster Japanese launch. As Ben pointed out, the Japanese market is much more enthusiastic about portable consoles than the US market is. And if that market wasn't able to support the Vita as much as expected, I doubt other markets will be able to.
PGU: I got distracted from MGS3 and am currently playing RDR. I've been on a western kick lately, watching Tombstone, True Grit, and Lonesome Dove in the past week and this game has fit in wonderfully. Can't believe I waited so long to play this one.
Here's some worthless info. For the longest time I thought dichotomy was pronounced ditch-o-tome-ee
It's not. After my logic course a year ago I learned it was die-caught-tuh-me
Yep, just waiting for my gt5 ver 2.2 patch to install…… Study break
Genre-blending can only work if the game itself is designed well, of course. And some franchises (like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear) are so accomplished in their genre that they don't need to blend. They need to further master what they've already got, innovating within that genre, rather than taking things already done in other genres. What if Mario started hunting for Master Swords? Or shooting aliens? Even if the game was solid, it wouldn't be Mario and everyone would shake their heads.
Besides that, most genre-benders I've played have this dichotomy between both of their genres and the gameplay feels thrown together, neither side really fitting the other. They also add nothing new to gaming since they're combining two existing ideas.
It's when they incorporate elements from other genres but know what they are and accomplish what they want – that's impressive. Sly 2 is a great example of that. Full of well-executed ideas as well as originality and creativity all over the place.
Congrats on the new phone! I hope you enjoy it.
Speaking of genre blending, Metal Gear Solid, and running and gunning…
I'm playing Peace Walker now for the first time, and I'm enjoying it so far, especially the team and weapon-developing elements. They remind me a bit of RTSs in a way. But did anyone else notice that the game seems pretty… well, easy? At least compared to the main series? I bring this up because I was trying to show a friend the comic book style cut scenes by breezing through a level. Whenever I did that in any of the other games, I always got spotted, and in this one, I never raised the alert level once. Granted I'm still within the first three hours, so I imagine it will be getting harder, but in MGS3, (which I just finished for the 3rd time,) there is no way I could have gotten away with it, even so early. I'm still enjoying it, but it doesn't feel all that important to really be sneaky…
Yes, I noticed that as well. You can be standing where an enemy should be able to spot you but nothing happens. It's kind of ridiculous to be honest. No, it does not get any more difficult. The enemies must have the worst eye sight ever. You can just walk right past them. They don't spot you unless you are right on top of them.
I agree there are definitely things that can be learned from the Vita's reception in Japan. Japan has been VERY supportive of Sony's handhelds. The PSP was the best selling handheld in Japan in 2010. It was the first time Nintendo had ever been beaten in the handheld sector in any region. The fact that the Vita has run into trouble in Japan does not make me feel good about its prospects outside of Japan. The PSP kind of struggled outside of Japan, but mainly becuase of Japan it was considered a success.
The Vita had a good launch and sold 320,000 consoles in 2 days. There was every reason to believe that the Vita was going to sell 200,000 consoles in its second full week(analysts were predicting that). Then, something happened. It only sells 72k in its second week, and then follows that up with 43k in its third week. That is a huge drop off. Way worse than the drop off the 3DS went through, and that drop off had Nintendo scrambling to right the ship.
I have wondered about the Vita's launch line up of games. Does it really have a true system seller for Japan? It has a large and diverse line up, but I'm not sure how strong it is. Hot Shots Golf was the Vita's best seller by far…that's going up against Monster Hunter on the 3DS. Not exactly a fair fight.
There has to be an explanation for the drop off in sales. It's either the Vita's price point, or its games.
Last edited by Excelsior1 on 1/15/2012 4:44:09 AM
I have no intention of buying a Vita anymore due to the fact of memory cards + base etc but I do hate when Sony can't read what is happening and then do something. Instead they just say, oh it's ok, it will be alright. Paying for it down the track.
I don't like that very much either. Everything's fine. We aren't concerned about poor Vita sales in Japan…can't learn anything from it. A statement like that either shows a company that is in complete denial or a litltle out of touch. Japan has a substantial and THRIVING handheld market. If Vita sales in Japan are so weak does anybody at Sony really expect things to go better for them in the west?
I have said this before but I have experienced a severe case of deja vu when reading Vita headlines. Late out of the gate vs a major competitor. Check. Huge decline in sales after intitial launch. Check. Negative headlines surrounding the product and rumblings that a price cut may be necessary. Doublecheck. This feels strangely familar somehow. I know it's still early but like World said above me in this thread… if you can't sell a handheld to the Japanese you are in big trouble.
I think Genre blending is necessary to move forward in gaming. Hopefully developers continue to be creative enough that they create their own new genres as well.
Look at Heavy Rain, the first in "Interactive Drama".
As for too much option, yes it's possible. I wholeheartedly believe that NEW ip's should blend genres and make their own identity from what they think works. However, well established franchises need to stick to the genre they are in. I say this because of the criticism FFXIII received (and 10 points lower on metacritic than FF's should be getting), Front Mission:Evolved, Resident Evil 5, and more.
Well established franchises try to branch out, and wha'd'ya know… it gets heckled and isn't the same success it's predecessors were.
People WANT that consistency. But they want new as well. Which is why new ip's that create new genres, like Heavy Rain, and games that blend genres, like Mass Effect, should be the ones to do so. They are the successful ones because they've created their own identity. Old franchises that suffer an identity crisis…. do not.
I believe gaming should be diverse enough that there are LOTS of genres and LOTS of games everywhere between those genres. Then everyone benefits, and the industry will grow in both relevance and creativity.
Here here Underdog, right now established genres are trying to be everything for all. Innovative, original and the only thing available to the gaming populous. In the end the developers fail to create a meaningful entry, impress the longstanding followers, capture a new audience or have a consistent vision on display.
Resident Evil 5 was one of the most dissapointing experiences of this gen in my humble opinion. I guess it was aiming for the Gears of War crowd with its roided Chris Redfield and poorly implemented cover system. RE5 is great example of a game straying too far from gamer's expectations in an attempt to blend genres. It sorely lacked any of the Resident Evil atmosphere and tension. Hell, the Lost in Nightmares DLC had way more atmosphere and tension than the entire RE5 game and that DLC lasts about an hour.
Excel-
"RE5 is great example of a game straying too far from gamer's expectations in an attempt to blend genres"
Same could be said for FF13 as well. Thing is both were great games. Well I havnt played FF13, but I've heard enough about it. But they just wernt good sequels in the franchise.
There's been a lot of that this gen. Socom has gone completely away from the stealth focused mp to try and be more like an FPS. That's my biggest let down this generation. At this point I just want Socom 2 HD.
Regarding the merging of genres, I think the way things work in Deus Ex is an example to follow:
There you chose your playstyle as you go, with the skills you invest in. Like me who invested in sneaking abilities (and thus opted to NOT become a shooter specialist), there was no way whatsoever I could survive a gun fight. To me, Deus Ex became a 100% stealth game. A buddy of mine chose the 100% confrontal route (health/dodge/gun skills etc), so to him this became a shooter.
That's how they should do it I think, that's player freedom without being too generic. You shape your own game the way you want it to be – with the restrictions that follows with such a choice.
Concerning blending the stealth an action genres, I think that you should take the route in which the easier difficulties allow a run-and-gun gameplay style and the harder difficulties require you to play stealthily because going Stallone style is next to impossible.
Many may disagree but I believe that Splinter Cell Conviction actually did this fairly well, or at least made the first step in a good direction. Keep the hunter game mode in mind while reading this because that's what I have in mind. When played on easy the game is too easy and run-and-gun works very well, also the mark and execute function really takes away a lot of fun. Now if you play the game on realistic with gadgets turned off (and maybe pistols only turned on) you'll find that running and gunning becomes much harder. Also the lack of the goggles, which were overpowered IMO makes for a challenge. You really have to watch the proximity of enemies you kill because they will hear silenced shots and takedowns. I really like playing this game mode and I find it a great blend of action and stealth. If anyone wants to play it add me on xbox live I'm DJ Downy.
I think the days of purely stealth games like the original splinter cell games are over, the majority of people just don't have the patience for it anymore. Even myself, I find that I like a little bit of action thrown in with my stealth, I just hope it doesn't go too far. I think the perfect mixture is that stealth is the more fun, strategic way to play and having to run and gun should be a sort of punishment that is a pain in the ass that you try to avoid by being stealthy but it should not just be "game over" if you get spotted.
I'm really excited for Absolution, been a fan since Contracts and I loved Blood Money. The Hitman series is in my top 10 favorites.
Ben,
Glad to hear you've joined "the smart phone revolution". I bet it wont be long before you find yourself playing jet pack joyride or something similar at home. I've heard there are some great RPGs for the mobile devices, I'm not a fan of the genre but you clearly are. The thing with playing these games at home is that you find yourself on a commercial break and you start playing and end up missing your show because you get so into it. Give it a chance it might take you by surprise. I hope to hear in a future week in review if you find anything you like.
Last edited by SubjectiveTruth on 1/15/2012 12:03:39 PM
… And regarding rpgs on the smartphones, many of them are of jrpg style too.
personal life update
Was in Italy for a little while where the internet is scarce. For some reason this site was blocked the whole time. Thought that was rude. It was nice to catch up on some good articles. I enjoyed reading the end of the awards. Now I'm in the Czech and shortly on my back to Italy. Hopefully there will be internet but I'm not going to hold my breath. Made a little money this week. Might look into a new gaming quality lab top, but if the remote play features on the Vita are as good as they sound I might just go for that instead and get a cheap minimal computer when I need one.
Been play some old school Quake. I really like the style of having to side strafe and back track to stay alive. It's a fresh change from the duck and cover of this gen.
Once I'm done with my book I'll get back into FFIX on my PSP.
I think genre blending is a double edged sword. Hopefully not every developer abandons there game roots.
And I so sorely want the Vita to do well. I think the vita is a good example of the benefits of not genre blending. It specializes in hand held gaming. Not thousands of apps, phone calls, and half baked games like the smart phones.
I totally agree on the side strafe thing! I had totally forgotten about that. That was the duck'n'cover of the time, so true. But side strafing made it all much more intense. They should get back to that!
Last edited by Beamboom on 1/16/2012 3:49:08 AM
Since you brought up the topic of mobile phones, Ben: Try "Apparatus"! It's a clever puzzler with neat physics and good graphics too. Some brainwork never hurts.
Last edited by Beamboom on 1/16/2012 3:55:29 AM
In regards to the vita… I really think it was the software lineup that got in the way of major sales. It just doesn't seem like they are as much into games like uncharted and wipeout then they are for the likes of monster hunter etc…
Asura's wrath was cool but the qte's really kind of made it boring. I hate to say that because i really want to love this game, being an action game fan. I guess we'll see when it actually drops. I'm just hoping that the qte's don't get in the way of owning. LOL.