Ben-DutkaYes, I'm in the path of Hurricane Irene – should be here around 8 a.m., I guess – but more on that in a minute.
We need SOME scripted events
As you already know, I really like Deus Ex: Human Revolution . The game has a few flaws (it looks too dated, for one), but for the most part, it's a fantastic and tremendously fulfilling production. And what do I see? People complaining about the scripted boss fights, which don't really let you approach the confrontations in any way you wish. You know, there is a story here; a fairly complex, in-depth story, too. In order to have that, you absolutely cannot give the player ultimate freedom, because then the writer isn't allowed to write; there can be no scripted events. Hence, no pre-written plot.
But as Eidos pointed out , that story is a major focal point in Human Revolution and they refused to put that aside for the sake of more freedom. And why should they? Don't we have enough freedom already? No, the world isn't huge like a Fallout or Elder Scrolls , but we usually have all the freedom in the world in terms of gameplay. And since when did we have a game without at least a few scripted events?
Games to offer definitive 21st-century literature?
As much as I love to see storytelling progress in this industry, I'm not entirely sure I agree with Professor Swain's prediction . As I stated above, the more freedom we have to alter a story, the less of a story there really is. A writer is an artist, and an artist communicates a message; he lets others see that message when it's complete, but he doesn't let others mess with his vision. That's what makes a piece of literature masterful: the mastery of a skilled artisan. It doesn't have anything to do with interaction or participation. When we see a play, view a painting, or read a book, we are experiencing the completed artistic vision.
And we can attempt to identify with the message therein, but we can't change it. It isn't our place to try. However, gaming is very different. I still believe it's an art form even if it's a specialized art; it really requires two parties to fulfill its destiny, so-to-speak. We need the developer and the player to bring it to life. But so long as we have any way of changing things, I believe it will never really compare to those other forms of artistic expression. And I'm not saying one is better than the other; I just think games are very different from everything else.
Personal gaming update
Well, it's all about Deus Ex right now, but two other great games sort of sidetracked me: Hamilton's Great Adventure and Disgaea 4: A Promise Unforgotten . I really don't have time for the latter, though, as much as it hooked me. I'll definitely finish Human Revolution and then go back to complete Catherine , provided I have time. Resistance 3 and Dead Island are right around the corner.
Also remember that we'll be talking to Techland about their zombie-slaying game. It's a Q&A roundtable this week so stay tuned for that.
As for the hurricane, I'm not even sure we'll get hurricane-force winds. It seems like they're making a much bigger deal out of this than it actually is, but you never know. The good news is that if I do lose power, I don't really update on Sundays, anyway, so it doesn't make much difference. I just hope power is back by Sunday night or early Monday morning at the latest. If not, my parents have a generator and I can go there to get work done. 🙂
I don't really mind the scripted boss fights, but it would be cool if I had some hint of what to do and it'd be cool if the boss reacted properly to what I've done even if it doesn't kill him. A slug to the face is still a slug to the face after all.
But whatever, it's a cool game that's pretty addictive. I'm so happy I got the Icarus augment as I tired of retracing my steps and really needed a way to jump off buildings.
There's so much to say about storytelling in games I can't condense it. Basically, there are gamers who don't care about it at all and just want to shoot and there are gamers who thrive inside a great story. Funny thing is, the story-driven gamer can still have fun with games that are just shmups, but the shmup-driven gamer can't have fun with a story driven game.
I'm just playin Deus, contemplating a Dead Island buy, watching anime and waiting for classes to start. After that, gaming gets a huge back seat, but it's been a great summer.
Tough one. It is all about balance though, Surely if the developers have done their job video games can have great action as well as great story. I feel that much of the time it has got to do with the genre itself and the context within the world the game is set in.
Even a basic shoot-em-up could have an interesting story I would say. Platformers have also proved to be innovative. Trine is a good example of simple but entertaining story, with great graphics and game play elements to boot.
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
Jumping off buildings with upgrade is one of the coolest things in Deus Ex:)
Sorry to read about the hurricane. All of these crazy disasters. I still say prayers for the people in Japan too 😉
Yeah, I totally go with Ben on the story thing and games. I still get annoyed when people claim they only play a game for it's story. I think it's a slap in the face to all the other great things the gaming form is doing. Not to say the stories aren't, or cant be vital to a game, it's just seems not quite right for someone to be playing a game for story alone. I feel like that person either is misinterpreting what they believe, or that they hopped on the wrong bus. The bus without the more dedicated story tellers.
Anyway, Deus Ex sounds awesome. I want it. I can't get to it just yet, but I will. I'm glad I have a heads up with the boss stuff. I like great boss fights, but at the same time, I understand stories are vital to some game's design. Until I actually play Deus Ex I'll be able to form an opinion as to whether what they have working could've been improved upon.
PGU: And here I thought I'd be playing Fallout 3 this week. Wrong. I've been busy and stuff. But I have been hooked with SFIII:3rd Strike Online for the last few nights. I'm so impressed with how serious Capcom approached this re-release. Hardcore fans have just been given some real love.
EDIT: Are became aren't and can became can't up above on the story stuff
Last edited by Temjin001 on 8/27/2011 9:45:08 PM
I see you didn't mention Warhammer 40k: Space Marine? Will you be doing a review of that Ben? I don't know if you consider it being a major release. I had only seen a trailer of it earlier and it looked a bit interesting but somewhat repetitive. It comes out the same day that Dead Island and Resistance 3 of course.
I doubt I'll be able to get to it, but you never know.
I'm sick! I think it was caused by the really cold morning mixed with the horribly hot midday. So lame. :/
Luckily I have Deus Ex to play, and not only do I disagree with the scripted bosses but also about the graphics being dated. I think it's a gorgeous game and I love the environments. The neon and gold everywhere combined with the super detailed city is stunning. Loving everything about it. Right now I'm trying to play 100% stealth and not kill anyone. So far so good. =)
Deus Ex is def my fav game this year so far, with Infamous 2 at a close second and LA Noire at third. I have the original for the PS2 but never played it. I may once I'm done with HR.
You're more patient than I ever will be. After going non-lethal with the first mission and causing a massive clusterf*ck I decided the bastards just had to die. I love the stealth but have never been very good at it.
Yeah, I've gotten as far the beating the first boss and finishing Detroit. I hope I don't kill someone by accident and miss the trophy. That would suck. 😛
Regarding the graphics I agree with both Claire *and* Ben. In my opinion they /are/ dated, but dated with elegance, sort to speak. The entire game is what I associate with the term "old-school" and has the graphics to match it.
I really like how it looks, the very high contrast effect (how did they do that? Is it partially cell shaded?), the palette, it simply looks like no other game. More cartoonish than realistic, but a stylish, well crafted cartoon. If that made any sense.
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/28/2011 4:33:30 AM
I wouldn't say the game's cel-shaded or cartoony but just highly stylized and exaggerated. Calling it cartoony might be misleading and downplays the visual's excellence.
I'm not sure what old school means unless you're saying it plays similarly to previous Deus Ex games.
This is exactly the type of game I enjoy. The exploration, the stealth, the various upgrades and options of play, the futuristic Blade Runner setting are all right up my alley. I'm already contemplating my next playthrough. =)
Yeah, "highly stylized and exaggerated" is a much better description. Thanks. 🙂
With old-school I mean some of that good old PC gaming flavour. I dunno, it's just a retro feeling, and I mean that in a good way. All of a sudden I remember the entire original Deus Ex.
And I agree – this game is right up my alley too. Awesome setting indeed, and I just *love* the fact that when I enter a new playfield I have absolutely no idea where to go next, what path to follow. No stippled line on the ground, no rails. *And* a cool story. Really, what is there *not* to like about this? 🙂
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/28/2011 12:24:59 PM
Tell me about it. =D
And we haven't even mentioned how intriguing the whole idea of augmenting the human body with machine components is, and how it plays into the story. Not many games make you think about the bigger picture.
Yeah. Also, the realistic layout of the maps: The rooms could be actual, usable rooms, not just mazes for a game.
And just like real life you can always return backwards to older locations, not that "one-way" mechanics that so many games, especially shooters have.
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/29/2011 12:39:49 AM
Wait… are you going to play Bodycount Ben?
Probably. It'll be reviewed, at any rate.
Oh no XD, not Body Count. But I guess it is a release but it's just like Black(Playstation 2). I sold that game once I was done with it. Nobody was really impressed by Bodycount..
nobody?
so why have there been a few reviews giving it a 8?
that sounds pretty impressive to me!
I'm sorta impressed by it… I just don't like how you have to slightly push down L2 in order to aim and walk around at the same time. That's going to take some getting use to.
Oh, I really want to get Deus Ex, but haven't the faintest idea when I'll be able to. It'll have to wait until it's going cheap and I have time, as there's still a massive backlog of games on my shelf that is only going to grow by the end of the year. Scripted events are necessary to further the story, so I see no issue with them.
And I do believe that games will become the novels of this generation. We're already seeing massive improvements in storytelling methods and the blend of narrative and gameplay. That will keep being pushed forward. They may never be as powerful as some novels and films, but there will be something, for sure.
Personal Update:
Finished the Lovecraft collection that I was reading yesterday, so I'm going back to Jane Austen for Mansfield Park.
I've put The 3rd Birthday on hold to play through Resistance: Retribution again, just so that I've got all three entries fresh in my mind before the release of R3, meanwhile I finished Fall of Man the other night and started 2 earlier today.
Hope all of you come through Irene alright, cyclones/hurricanes are fun, but the aftermath is not.
Peace.
P.S. Ben, any idea on when those responses from S-E will be back?
No, sorry. I have to bug the PR lady.
I don't know if I'm gonna get Deus Ex. If I have time sometime next summer maybe but for now I'm just waiting for Resistance 3. I just got the GOW collection so I started that. I also, I decided that I was gonna make time for Ratchet and Clank so I picked up Tools of Destruction. Otherwise I started replaying Gears 1.
what does scripted boss battles have to do with writing a story?
alpha protocol let you play the boss fights how you wanted, hell it even let you choose who lives and who dies.
the BS excuse of oh we had to have it scripted for the sake of the story is the lamest excuse i have ever heard!
plenty of other games out there have had open boss battles and the stories been just fine!
they just saw it as a short cut simple as that!
im both really excited but worried about dead island.
excited because it looks freaking awesome!
worried because of who its made by there not exactly known for good games.
not to mention 1 week away from release and zero reviews!
the previews were not very encouraging either.
oh well, fingers crossed its a good game because ive been waiting far too long for a decent zombie game!
im surprised how fluctuated the reviews are for driver SF.
quite a few reviews out now, most giving it 8s but some 6s and 7s.
so which one is it?
most games dont fluctuate that much you might get 1 or 2 reviews which stray from the norm, but theres normally a pretty consistent consensus.
eh, i just hope its the 8s that are more on the money then the 6s.
i was expecting it to be pretty crap, the demo was a bit of a mess so hopefully they fixed that up.
just finished playing the demos for bodycount and warhammer 40K.
warhammer was really good, allot of fun!
bodycount was pretty cool too, just one request.
ENOUGH WITH THE FREAKING GRENADES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
god, gets frustrating dodging a grenade every 3 and a half seconds!
you get like 3 and your enemies get a gazillion!
the shredding tech is really cool, so much fun blowing buildings to pieces!
Regarding the scripted bosses I've not yet met my first Deus Ex boss (I am a slooooow player) so I must be careful with having too strong of an opinion here but principally speaking I agree. In what way does it affect a story whether you kill someone by shooting bullets in the belly or booby-trap it to death as long as the outcome is the same? He/she dies!
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/28/2011 4:40:18 AM
I haven't yet bought or played Deus Ex BUT:
I think that the complaints are being raised because you have to fight/kill the bosses at all when the rest of the game has such an immense amount of freedom. I think that it comes about because of the 'pillars of gameplay' where you should be free to talk your way out of a battle, or circumvent it through stealth.
Can't be sure, haven't played it, but that's what I've gathered from it.
Ahaaaa… I see. That way.
I'm pretty sure you are right Lawless cause in that context actually both points of view made much more sense.
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/28/2011 6:50:33 AM
others maybe and if so then i can see where the devs are coming from and there totally right.
but what i dont like about the bosses is you cant choose to kill them or let them live.
you cant choose what to ask them.
you cant really even choose how to fight them.
the game is so inconsistent!
as ive said so many times before i fell like im playing 2 totally different games at times!
some levels are so easy to play through stealthfully others are impossible.
some will give you a route to go under, above, and around the enemies.
others will force you to walk right past 10 guards without any of them seeing you!
thats what i dont like about it.
it asks you how do you want to play, then in some levels forces you to play how it wants you to play.
it says what do you want for dinner?
then once you answer it says you have to have steak.
well if i have to have steak then what was the point of asking me?
another problem is the side missions.
a few side missions i have done now FORCE you to hack level 3 security systems.
there are no codes, you have to either hack them or use AUDs.
but since im playing stealth i dont have enough praxis points to waste upgrading my hacking skills, and i dont have any AUDs so instead of spending the 2 hours i got to play the game on completing objectives i have to waste those 2 hours to get enough credits or find 3 AUDs.
again the game is asking you how do you want to play, then forces you to play the way it wants you to play.
storywise i can understand, that would make sense in boss battles.
but in side missions?
why cant there be a code for it?
why cant there be a hidden ebook with the code near the door i need to enter, or even another entry point?
nope, you MUST upgrade your hacking skills.
it asks me the question, then ignores the answer!
I haven't been playing much just lately, i am still finishing salivating over the console announcement of VF5:FS. Still cannot believe that has happened. Completely caught me off guard as i'd just about given up.
I also have my eyes on the console release of King of Fighters XIII & the awesome looking Skullgirls which is looking like toppling Blazblue & Arcana Hearts 3. The animation & old fashioned cartoon design is just brilliant. Also, the character roster for SCV is getting intense, it looks like Sophitia, Cassandra, Xianghua & Taki have all been replaced where there are new pictures hinting of Setsuka & Amy making comebacks. It's getting intense & i cannot wait to see what the final line-up is.
Anyway, the only games i plan on buying in September are Dead Island & Gears of War 3. Those look pretty ace.
Nice to read everyone's PGUs. Folks here really have a diverse taste in gaming!
As for me, I have stopped buying new games, at least for the time being. It's a shame that I am still yet to buy Infamous 2 and L.A. Noire (among others) but I realized that I have a lot of games that I still need to finish first. Considering that money is hard to come by these days, I thought it's best if I save up for the fall/winter season when the blockbuster games are expected to come out (Uncharted 3, Dark Souls, Assassin's Creed; Revelations, etc.)
So this past week found me playing the games I've had in a while that I needed to finish. I got the Platinum trophy for Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm 2. I had a lot of fun with that, but that's mainly because I enjoyed the Naruto stories as well. That said, I couldn't help but get annoyed at the cheap people I encountered online. Deidara, Naruto (Sage Mode), and Minato users are among the most common spammers I've unfortunately played against online. As for me, I kept playing as Kiba and sometimes as Ino or Guy. As tleast my victories aren't cheap. LOL IIRC, my online record is currently 64-52.
Now that I got NUNS2 finished, I'm going back to playing Demon's Souls. I still have lots of ways to go with that one. I'd probably won't bother with platinuming it, but who knows?
I agree that interactive storytelling has a long way to go before it can match the quality of a masterwork novel and that it may, in fact, be impossible for it to do so, since the necessary flexibility diminishes the potential strength of a singular message.
There is, nonetheless, definitely power in having the player directly involved in the process.
PGU: Finally got my first Platinum (for Burnout Paradise), with a little help from TheHighlander and his wife. Thanks again to them. I'll probably clean up a few unfinished DLC trophies and challenges, but I won't be getting 100% because I can't stand the Stunt Runs and am unhappy that the events I completed got reset when I got my Burnout licence. WTF?
I was going to start another game in my backlog tonight, but between the return of Doctor Who and the Seahawks game, the evening evaporated on me. I think AC1 will be next, but it depends what I feel like playing in the moment.
p.s. Earthquake then a hurricane…Eastern Seaboard's getting punk'd.
Last edited by Fane1024 on 8/28/2011 6:26:18 AM
Well, I just bought Deus Ex (Augmented edition) and inFamous 2 the other day. Had played for like an hour maybe on Deus Ex, then all of a sudden my PS3 YLOD (a refurbished fat60).
Deus Ex was good though.
It'll be a while before I get a chance to play Dues ex. Just as long as theyre fun,scripted boss fights don't really bother me.
It's better safe than sorry but mayor bloomberg & nyc really went overboard with scaring the public about this hurricane. People were acting like a bunch of animals & The grocery store on my block ran out of bread & milk.
PGU: Mass effect 2 stole my life this past month. I can see how some gamers think its not really an rpg in terms of the combat but the worlds, ambiance, story & character's are so beautifully detailed. I think the only thing its missing is deeper customization with its weapons, armor& stat building. Hopefully this will make it in ME3.
LA Noire got put on the back burner for ME2 but ill finish it soon. Enslaved, Sly 3, New Vegas are on backlog right now as well & will get push back further with all these great games coming this year. I just wish I had more time.
I have been playing with my Nintendo 3DS. I've played Pilotwings Resort and some old Game Boy games I bought from their eShop. These older games like Donkey Kong, Super Mario Land and Kirby's Dream Land certainly pack a challenge. I haven't opened Ocarina 3D yet.
I seem to be on a retro kick, playing stuff like Namco Essentials Pac-Man, Galaga Legions DX and Sega Rally Arcade Online on the PS3. I have yet to open Catherine or Deus Ex.
About an earlier story:
It's funny how Xbox 360 owners seem to troll every website they can to promote their propaganda. I've had people on Twitter act as spokesmen for their favorite console. They wonder why people think the Xbox 360 is overrated despite a paid off video game media made up of so-called "journalists" saying otherwise. Well, we just don't like wasting our money or want anything to do with the much younger demographic of the Xbox 360.
We're on the edge of the storm here in upstate NY. The power just came back on. I'm afraid to play Deus Ex, b/c I don't want the power to go out when it's saving my game. I guess it's worth risk. This is my only off day and I'm not going to let a storm get in my way.
Just make multiple saves. If one save get corrupted do they all?
Not sure. I was more concerned about my whole hard drive going under.
I don't think that would happen. I pretty sure it'd be limited to just that one game if it did corrupt.
Yeah, cutting power to the drive during writing will not ruin the disc, just the data.
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/28/2011 1:32:56 PM
Good to know.
I think Deus Ex will end up being the best game I played in 2011. I don't see why people are complaining about boss fights. I just wish they put more finishing touches on relationships with main characters at the end.
The game is very good. It captured my attention just like original. I think it's better than ME2, and believe me I liked ME2 as well, but it seems like 3x more work has been put into Deus Ex with all the dialogue, weapon customization, augmentations, interesting side quests, and stealth. GOTY:)
Oh, and here is something to look forward to. I found it last night in Deus Ex.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c1/Slajfer/dxhr_2011_08_27_21_49_54_732.jpg
Wow you've beaten the game already?
I'll probably not beat this until Saints Row 3 arrives 😀
Dues Ex Human Revolution has me in such a mood that I bought Invisible War (xbox) and Blade Runner: The Final Cut (Blu-ray) together for only $13 on Amazon. XD
Last edited by Claire C on 8/28/2011 2:32:34 PM
If you haven't played the first Deus Ex that's the one you shouldn't miss. One of my favorite games of all time. Invisible war was not that good. Human revolution is definitely the best of them all.
HR has me in such a good mood I think I'll replay both Deus Ex and Invisible war:)
I've already played through IW and I liked it a lot. I have the first Deus Ex on PS2, but I only played it for like 30 minutes when it first came out way back. Both added to my list of games to play. =)
This must be more common than I thought, I too have roving genre and sub genre obsessions.
Speaking of Blade Runner, if you have a PC then pick up the Blade Runner game that came out in the 90's. Takes place at the same time as the movie and has a great story as well. And I'm wondering how the new Blade Runner movie is going to be.
Deus Ex, Deus Ex, Deus Ex! >.> I love this game so much but I've played SO much that I'm already in some facility all the way in Singapore. I have no issue with the visuals or boss fights. I have few irritations with some voice actors and the AI isn't perfect (but it never is in any game).
I've been thoroughly engaged with the narrative that I actually got upset about some of the consequences the other day – I don't want to spoil it but let's just say I got the hostage of Sanders, got Wayne to get me into the morgue, beat Sarif, and got Haggarty to come clean in public – then I got to Isaiahs and failed that argument… When you people get there you'll understand why my silver tounged Jensen and I were so upset.
For the record punching through walls, Icarus parachute, and double kills never get old but the Typhoon is absolutely useless – useless I tell you… I want my praxis points back ;_;.
My FIRST impressions of Human Revolution are that of pure awe.
You may have read that i was hugely sceptical of it due to development team change and action packed trailers. I am a huge fan of the masterpiece original, i mean, what an effing game! It took another 8 years for gaming to catch up to it!
Human Revolution has me eating my doubts. It has that retro golden age PC gaming feel about it and my god is it refreshing to have an un-dumbed down game on the market??
It feels Deus Ex through and through. It's one of them ultra rare moments a new development team understood the franchise and did it justice.
Purchasing the bigger jump aug and then jumping up to high places around the city and finding hidden items and doors…when was the last game to include secrets like that of the days of old?
It does feel like a tribute to the original at times, especially when you hear random pedestrians whistling the theme from the original Deus Ex lol. The original innovated beyond belief and in my estimation is the greatest western game ever made. Human Revolution seems like it put all it's effort into trying to live up to it and had no time to add new innovative things…but then again, it's really hard to innovate today and what's more, ironically, Human Revolution brings back a refreshing breeze of old school perfectly into a modern game and will probably remind devs and players what real gaming was all about….therefore innovating. The new generation of gamers will be introduced to un- dumbed down gaming.
The story is fantastic! Incredibly complex ala the original and deals with real world conspiracies. Hearing about the new world order and seeing the science V nature/Man V God debate rage against human dilemma in this game is one hell of a feeling.
That haunting piece of music that plays as you purchase Praxis Kits at LIMB is just….wow….and only serves that human dilemma more.
Minor flaws, AI….that's it.
Oh and the music is unbelievable. makes it 10 times more immersive!
Im unsure whether it's better than the original so far, certainly won't have the impact, but i'll see.
I was hoping it would provide me with experiencing that original Deus Ex feeling one more time…and it is. With so many franchises being dumbed down today, it's just utterly refreshing to see Human Revolution.
Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 8/29/2011 8:00:52 AM
Exactly!!! This game is the perfect merge of old and new. It's a true Deus Ex anno 2011.
Last edited by Beamboom on 8/30/2011 8:18:38 AM