Arnold-KatayevOver the past couple of days, Ben's editorial has made the rounds with the
online gaming community. It's hit various feeds on Twitter, a few other gaming
sites, and even a podcast. Generally, the response to Ben's Killzone 2 Edge
piece has been met with heavy criticism. As such, as the Co-founder and
Executive Editor of the site, I've found myself in a weird position. For the 10
years I've been at the helm of PSXE, I don't believe we've ever once been called
a fanboy site. Yes, it is a Sony centric site, but every editor here has always
been hired on the basis of being open minded about their gaming views; it's been
that way for a while now.
Granted, when the site was just launched I was much younger, so the quality of
work you'll find if you start digging around to prove me wrong is separated by a
timespan of 10 years. In any case, I'd just like to point some things out about
Ben Dutka, while at the same time clarifying some others. It's important to know
that despite Ben's passionate editorials, he was hired to write for PSX Extreme
as an owner of an Xbox 360 and a PlayStation 2, the latter of which had been
largely sidelined by him after his HD acquisition.
Ben has sung nothing but high praises for the Xbox 360, and has tried to
convince me numerous times to buy one. Ben's logged as many hours on his Xbox
360 last year as he has his PlayStation 3. With games like Lost Odyssey, Left 4
Dead, and especially Gears of War 2, I still have to decline Ben's persuasion
largely because I feel like I won't play the machine that much. Gaming has
become more of my job than it has my hobby, and if I need to experience and
compare a multiplatform game I have Xbox 360 access at my best-friend's house.
Nobody who's deemed a fanboy would continuously try to convince me to buy the
PlayStation 3's biggest rival; it is simply not the way of the fanboy. Ben has
repeatedly mentioned that Gears of War 2 is his second game of the year title
for 2008, yes, putting it above his love for Resistance 2. And even then, Ben
has a reservation or two, feeling that in some cases maybe Gears of War 2 is his
GOTY? And that would mean, *gasp*, putting it above Metal Gear Solid 4. So let's
just say that Ben's GOTY is a tie between the biggest Xbox 360 game of 2008, and
the biggest PlayStation 3 game of 2008.
I've been around plenty of fanboys in the past, and I can attest that Ben is not
one of them. That is simply not how we hire people around here. His passionate
stand against Edge was misinterpreted by many as lacking integrity and the wrong
way for gaming journalism. And I believe that a lot of the negativity comes from
people who simply don't know enough about Ben's gaming habits. His response to
Edge's review may not have dissected their Killzone 2 piece by pointing out its
faults, but that's largely because it was a quick article where Ben just wanted
to get a message across…looks like it worked. I've read the Killzone 2 review
myself, and believe me, it'd be easy for anyone to point out the obvious flaws
in it – the most obvious being that they complain about things in KZ2 that other
games like COD4, Gears of War 2, and Halo 3 got passes for. The other major
complaint being that they spent, essentially, one tiny, closing paragraph
remarking how nice the multiplayer was.
Don't get what I'm saying wrong. I honestly couldn't care less if Edge gave
Killzone 2 a 3, I'd just prefer that they wrote a review that matched the score.
Instead, the context of the review seemed to dance around with cleverly
constructed quips and such, with an entire page dedicated solely to the opening
bit of the game. Give us legitimate reasons why you didn't enjoy Killzone 2 as
much as others did, Edge. Don't list reasons that you've given other games
passes for. And I know that I shouldn't bring up other reviews because different
people review different games. But collectively, they are reviewing these games
representing one sole publication, so the review process should have some sort
of consistency that reflects how they've judged games in the past. That's just
me, though, and I don't expect everyone to agree – just ask that you see where
I'm coming from with this.
Killzone 2 isn't the be-all-and-end-all of first person shooters. It's an
amazing game, but it will surely be replaced with something even more amazing in
the coming days. We just believe that it was reviewed poorly, and ask Edge to
have their writing reflect their scores more clearly, even if it means being
harsher with their grading scale, on top of being even more brutal, although
more concise and detailed with the context of their reviews.
I also wanted to add that the comical remarks about Ben being some kid in
someone's basement couldn't be further from the truth. Ben Dutka is neither a
kid (he's 31), nor a scrawny, whiny kid, as I have seen implied by some, nor is
he living in anyone's basement. Truth is, Ben Dutka is the Hulk. So let's not
get into the personal stuff, because no one reading knows what Ben actually
looks like. Some say, he's got Dual Shock analog sticks for thumbs, and Xbox
analog sticks for his big toes. All I know is that he's Ben Dutka. And me having
to point out that he's not a scrawny, pent up kid seems childish in a way, I'm
well aware, but it seems relevant in another.
I don't know how much of this cleared anything up. Maybe I've just lit up a new
fire, which isn't my intention. I wrote this with the sole purpose of dousing
the flames, and have people understand that PSX Extreme is not a site for
fanboys. You want some proof? Go look at my review of Grand Theft Auto: San
Andreas – one of the biggest PlayStation 2 timed-exclusives – or read my review
of MotorStorm 1 and MotorStorm 2, and then look at the review of Pure, which I
scored quite a bit higher than MS2. Just because something is a first-party
title, or exclusive, doesn't automatically make us defend it more than something
else, and that should be made clear. We'd have made a stink about a review if
the game in question was some mega third-party title and not necessarily an
exclusive. While I'm in no position to make demands to Edge, I kindly ask that
they treat their reviews with a bit more detail on the game, even if that means
harsher content and lower scores.
P.S. Caught up with the hunger of me running on nothing but coffee…I completely forgot to mention, but intended mentioning, one important aspect to PSX Extreme. Those who have been with us know that for about three years, we also operated a sister site called Xbox Nerds. Granted, while the site wasn't anywhere near as successful as PSXE, we still tried to keep it going for as long as we could, because we genuinely like the Xbox platform as a whole and wanted to cover it, as well. We folded XBNerds last year, as with a staff of only two, focusing on a whole other manufacturer was very difficult. So again, before the fanboy comments begin to pass around, keep that in mind.
Well said Arnold.
Nasah!!!
Not really. This "article" is the equivalent of a puff a smoke in a magic act. He painted Ben as not being a fanboy, when that was the lesser problem of his irate Op-Ed piece.
WOW dude, I've been on this website for a very long time and I KNOW Ben isn't a fanboy, and no staff are either. I didn't need this article to tell me he isn't. Seriously, GTFO.
EDIT: Oh, Hey Slim 🙂
Last edited by N a S a H on 2/12/2009 3:50:57 PM
EDGE should be perma banned
EDGE is a shame in video game media
wow was his comments getting big attention!? haha awsome : ) i had no idea. well ionly have a few seconds so i will say this: i keep coming back because i enjoy how you guys run your stuff. keep it up and good work you guys… anyways any publicity (sp?) is good right? oh well.
we got your back yo 😛
Very well said indeed Arnold, my sentiments exactly which I tried to convey in my comment on the article.
Edge are 360 fanboys same as Gametrailers and IGN and some others
yes, every site is a 360 fanboy site except here.
I added an update to the bottom of the editorial.
man I was writing left and right in n4g defending the honor of ben as a writer. glad to see arnold showing some support and what ben wrote is not out of the ordinary. and people all over the web are saying ps fanboys are the worst and they even singled out ps3 owners as fanboys in a podcast while not mentioning xbox 36o fanboys. in my opinion ps3 in some peoples eyes finally has something worth or better than the xboxes top games (not my opinion) and i don't blame them if they feel the need to support killzone and try to make people see how unfair it is to give it a 7 of 10 when 90 percent of other sites gave it higher. if u ask me edge seems like the bad person here, but yet we as ps3 owners are seen as being the bad people for bashing edge and asking for the respect killzone 2 surely deserves.
//rant//
And to correct EDGE's bad review, you just HAVE to be a fanboy. Without basis or taking heed to the argument posed. Its sad really. If you question=fanboy…
That was a damn fine editorial and i totally agree with your take on Edges review. Well written, great read.
can someone please submit this article to n4g? I can't do it since I didn't pass the test for approving articles and news. =(
Just submitted it, up to approval now..
approved.
Last edited by caliblue15 on 2/12/2009 3:27:33 PM
And now on the front page. Your welcome.
Ben may not be a child, but he surely acted like one. Calling out another reviewer on his own subjective view of the game and then laying out how only your view of the game is objective and how Killzone 2 was "The Godfather" of games – unprofessional to say the least.
Reviews shouldn't be entirely subjective. That was the error.
I honestly think what Ben was calling foul on was what Arnold is stating here. And that is:
Edge's review of Killzone 2 did not properly or coherently reflect the 7 that it received. They have reviewed other games like Arnold mentioned and had the same complaints but those games were scored higher. If the game truly warrants a 7 in the eyes of the reviewer at Edge then his review statements should reflect the reasoning behind said score.
I think this is what Ben was getting at and Arnold is trying here to reiterate but who knows I could be wrong and everyone is just being big babies but I highly doubt the latter.
@lyle
Read the first line of Ben's article before spewing verbal diarrhea
Last edited by karneli lll on 2/12/2009 2:55:23 PM
city96, i would not say gametrailers or IGN is a fanboy site or at least what i've experienced with either of them…
without looking back on the article ben wrote what i recall is he simply stated that edge gave Killzone 2 a score of 7/10 which he did not feel adequate for. he also pointed out that this might be to draw attention towards there site which pretty much everyone knows that certain sites have been known to do this once or twice and it does seem to work to a certain extent. while mentioning that some game i cannot recall and i'm sure many have never heard of scored an 8/10 while he felt that the quality of the review should be on the game and not comparing it to to another game especially of different style and gameplay
I love my PS3. I honestly wish I had more games to play for it. So I was a little disappointed when I saw the amount of vitriol Ben was showing to EDGE and to people who disagreed with him on the forums on the subject of Killzone 2.
Killzone 2 has intrigued me since the first REAL gameplay videos came out a while ago; it definitely looked leaps and bounds ahead of everything else on the consoles, visually at least. I tried the demo, I really liked it, and I was glad the AI wasn't too much of a pushover. So I figured I would buy it- what the hell, I don't have that many games for my PS3 anyways.
But the amount of back-and-forth garbage going on about this game has just left me with a bitter taste for this business. I'm sorry to say Ben, your behavior has pretty much dissuaded me from buying this game.
I guess my PS3 will stay unused until Infamous or Uncharted 2.
Dude grow a PAIR and make your own decisions. No one should make you WANT or REFUSE a game. Your no gamer.
You being swayed in one direction or another about buying a game based on what a person feels about another person's review of the game and then the anger that person feels over it lends to some deep seated psychological issues.
The fact that you let this get to you to the point that it will make you miss out on a great experience as a gamer tells me that you have some serious issues man. See the picture above, I suggest you take a good look at it.
Plenty of things can turn you off from a purchase. What does this have to do with "growing a pair"?
Apparently you guys must have bigger balls because you blithely do whatever the site tells you to.
Good, i won't have to play with your sorry @$$ on Killzone. A game like Killzone is going to to have millions of players, its good to get rid of the trash ahead of time.
Unfortunate. I was really looking forward to mopping the floor with you… whoever you are.
*shrugs*
Maybe next time Sony gets a heavily marketed AAA shooter, we can meet up in the "millions".
your loss Lyle
Lyle,we aint no psx di** riders or anythin' but…….let's just say we luv psx.
Am not married to psx and plannin' no weddin'….we stay on here cause of the mature atmosphere.
Last edited by www on 2/12/2009 3:59:36 PM
Lol, @ You mopping the floor with me, got no clue who you're messing with in the Shooter department.
That is just ridiculous!
Q!
"i aM hOMe"
First the kid says he doesn't care what others say, he played the demo, so then, he supposively was getting the game. Then, Ben and Arnold emphasize journalists' responsiblity towards consumers, and suddenly the kid doesn't want to get the game, and feels the need to call OTHERS childish. Well, goodbye. You've been warned plenty.
Am I really the only one on PSX who truly loves the PS3 and thinks Ben was wrong in his "anti-Edge" article? Come on everyone, Ben was outta line…Maybe not so much as in the article, but If you read through all the comments and look for his posts, you should see a few that clearly make him look like a fanboy.
It was the first time I ever saw Ben say things like he did. Hell…I even called him out for it in that article in one of MY posts.
@ lyle,
If you "REALLY" let your feeling's get all hurt just by a review made towards another reviewer.
Then I wholeheartedly agree with you…… don't buy KS………you HAVE already lost!
HELGHANS 1
YOU 0
Last edited by BikerSaint on 2/14/2009 12:28:54 AM
I always wondered what happened to the Xboxnerds half of the site.
Anyway, I don't see how anyone who actually read the Edge review could criticize Ben. It was extremely poorly written. I agree. If you're going to give a game a 7/10 score (or ANY score for that matter), then give us details about why.
True!
Dam right Troy.
All Ben said is that it was a crap review (not a crap opinion) a lot of people just cant seem to see the difference…
It may have Ben true Troy, but look at it this way. Ben went out of his way to defend Killzone, much like how Josh went out of his way to defend his beloved 360 from our attacks. We all called Josh a fanboy right?
Now If Edge felt the need to give KZ2 a bad score to increase traffic, Ben shouldn't have said anything. 7 really wasn't that bad of a score. I played the demo and from the hype I was ready to give it a 10, but the graphics were bit of a let down to be, not much though. I understand it was a demo, but from the controls to the graphics and not having Co-op, I would give it a 8.5.
Ben had no right (well legally he did) to call Edge out the way he did. I am well aware that hes a grown man, but IMO he did act like a child.
Its like a momma's boy getting offended that kids were making fun of his mother, or even that the kids didn't think the mother's cookies that she baked was as good as the momma's boy said they were. Now tell me, if we review Gears3 and everyone on the internet gives it a 10, but we give it a 7, and an all xbox site attacks PSX much like how Ben did, wouldn't we all call them "childish fanboys?"
I still respect and like Ben, its just I think he deserves all the negative attention hes getting. I mean com'on…the guy did shoot himself in the foot.
It's very obvious that people were seriously jumping to conclusions about the Edge Killzone 2 review editorial here on this site. Doing the right thing this manner will bring out the worse and the best of people. It truely exposes who the real fanboys are when you have an Xbox 360 enthusist as a gamer giving credit where credit is due and pointing out blatant misinformation when it's quite obvious. This site is the only PlayStation centric site I frequent because here facts are facts, and opinion is make out as opinion. I can respect that as true gaming journalism. I would doubt that this truthful piece wil make the rounds like the previous one, but truth has to be made known. Because as a gamer, I want to keep seeing gaming flourish as an industry without the bad apples and stigma of gaming killing fanboys.
Only the peeps that have been following the site know where your intentions lie. Your reviews, in my experience, have been accurate and impartial. This and gametrailers are the only sites I roll with.
Last edited by Wage SLAVES on 2/12/2009 2:42:18 PM
True dat Wage, but we aren't talking about reviews are we? We are talking about Ben getting outta line and attacking another site, while DEFENDING Killzone 2. I think what we hate about fanboys is the fact that they blindly defend what they love.
Killzone got a bad review, so Ben jumped all over it. Just think about how that looks to other people.
imo edge seemed more unprofesional I MEAN READ THE GOD DAMN REVEIW!!!!!!!!!! and tell me if the 7/10 match what they said, heck after reading I imagined it would be in the top 9's or no less than 9. this just goes to show some people don't read and just look at numbers.
//sarcasm// but yeah ben seems unprofesional for calling out a magazine that contradicts itself in its own writing and score //sarcasm//
personally…F**K EDGE,they were only trying to make a name sake,the western famitsu if you would.
the whole point of reviewing something is it give the consumer an idea of what their buying,so maybe they should start being a little helpful…any time now??
Last edited by tramp on 2/12/2009 2:52:46 PM
I honestly believe all the of negative backlash about his Op-Ed piece is based on him disqualifying the a well known, and respected gaming magazine's review of a game he hasn't even played yet. He called them liars, and accused them of short changing a major game for attention. Calling him a Fanboy is a compliment. The truth is he is unprofessional, and owes Edge magazine an apology for launching such baseless accusations.
At least someone understands my position (in so many words).
Nothing personal against Ben, I just think in this particular case he really overreacted.
A sedate, rational, thought-out op-ed piece might have actually gotten some headway with EDGE and made them reconsider their position. This just makes them look right.
Arnold got a final build version to review and agrees with the editorial. Edge is blatantly going against the grain and has caused the feeble to go up-in-arms over their Opinion! Read their review and I dare you to compare it to Arnold's…
Which comes across professional?
Ben has already commentated on how ridiculously stupid criticism of the PS3 has been generally; over the past two years anyway… he lost it to some degree… but can you blame him… he is fed up!!!
Q!
"i aM hOMe"