Ben-DutkaIt's the age-old question that all veteran hobbyists must face as the years continue to pass. We can all recall when we first became enamored with video games, and most of us can tick off our most memorable gaming moments without even thinking. But how much of this is nostalgia rather than truth? How much of this is prey to the inner machinations of the human mind that bend memories with time?
Thing is, time magnifies and exaggerates our memories, whether we acknowledge the occurrence or not. That traffic jam you got caught in yesterday; it was pretty bad, as you sat for 45 minutes in a car with no air conditioning and a midday temperature of about 85. But five or ten years from now, that traffic jam – like it or not – suddenly becomes a 3-hour struggle for survival, with the heat climbing up into triple digits and ambulances having to show up for passed-out motorists. Seriously, they were minutes from calling the National Guard. This works for good memories, too, of course, which means we older gamers really need to question: how "golden" was the golden age of the industry? Sure, looking back now, we consider the first time we plugged in our NES to be an eye-opening epiphany of momentous proportions. After all, we were only used to the likes of Colecovision, Intellivision and Atari, so something like the NES was a revolution. A revolution for the industry; a revolution for our minds.
Now, I will always believe that playing the NES for the first time and first becoming truly emotionally affected by a video game when Aeris died in Final Fantasy VII (oh shut up, spoiler freaks; if you didn't know this, you're not a gamer) were real feelings. They were indeed something memorable. But I'm also willing to bet that all those days of blowing in cartridges and smacking a temperamental console to get it to cooperate weren't so enthralling. We look back on that now and laugh, a laugh laden with nostalgic feelings of times long past. We do the same with the impossibility of certain early games ('cough' Ghouls 'n Ghosts 'cough'), the unreliability of those light guns, and of course, the silliness of games of the day. So, do our memories betray us? When we say things like, "oh, that was when things were simple and pure; they'll never come around again," are we complaining or bragging ? We need to think about this for a few minutes before immediately assuming something like Super Mario Bros. is the greatest game of all time.
For my part, I still think it is the best game of all time. But logically speaking, how can I possibly be correct in this? Games have come so far and we've all seen such amazing things over the years, nobody – nobody – unfamiliar with video games will look at SMB and look at MGS4 and say that SMB is the superior product. That's just ridiculous. That's like saying the first telephones are better than any cell phone out there. That's like saying the first tube TVs were better than my 40" 1080p high-definition Samsung. It just doesn't make any sense. And yet, I can't bring myself to knock SMB off its lofty perch, and I doubt it'll every budge. On the other hand, my favorite game of all time is Final Fantasy Tactics and before you even ask; yes, there's an obvious and distinct difference between "favorite" and best. If you think otherwise, you're saying there are absolutely no qualitative aspects of video games, which means that you believe everything about it is subjective…and consequently, you are a colossal fool.
Hence, I find myself torn. I know for a fact that my brain has carefully filtered out all the negative parts of my earlier gaming days. I'm positive there were times when I wanted to throw something, and at the time, I wasn't having "fun," as I say I had today. But I can't win this battle. I could never have imagined that we'd see games like we've seen in 2008 alone, and I know how advanced and how accomplished they are in comparison to older video games. And if you give me the "oh, it's all about gameplay" argument, I'm just going to agree, and then look at you in consternation as you try to prove that a jump and fire button is somehow better than fully controlling my main character in a completely enveloping 3D world in games like LittleBigPlanet Gears of War 2 . There's just no way to win the "golden age" argument and yet, all of us – myself included – will always refer to those first few generations as exactly that: golden. Oh well…such is the way of the psyche, I guess.
IMO the golden age is a point of reference where someone can compare the initial impact that gaming had on their life. So as the generations pass by there is a shift in the golden age.
For me, none of the current gen games have made me feel like i felt when i first played River Raid on the Atari. even though graphicaly and technically, River raid is infinitely inferior to the current gen games, back in the day it was one of the finest examples of gaming innovation.
I for one, can say this generation of gaming has been more golden than ever before. Games before, like Mario or Tetris, were a past time not so different from password puzzles, scrabble, or checkers. In this generation, they have retained and expanded upon those same game mechanics of yore, yet have reached the dramatic and epic proportions of cinema. It has evolved from a simple hobby of few, to a rightful form of media reaching many, as Ben had mentioned in his MGS4 commentary.
Slightly off-topic though, if you can forgive me, but after playing R2 and Gears2 back to back, LBP was a welcomed breathe of fresh air from the very dark story lines.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS AHEAD….
R2 definitley picked up the pace with it's production values, clearly outdoing even Gears in the voice-acting department and CGI. But despite the campiness, Gears2 had a particular scene that was…if you played through it, then you know what I'm talking about. Don't want to spoil it for any eyes that have accidentally slipped passed the warning.
I consider the "Golden Age" to be both the 8-bit and 16-bit era; although I was enamored by early Arcade, Atari, and related systems, the NES/SMS was where I was truly starting to feel passionate about intricate game-design and game-play mechanics. The 16-bit era brought this to another level by providing more emphasis on visuals/artwork and soundtrack, as well as the ability to make more ambitious games, without compromising the more accessible nature of game-play that was often missing in subsequent generations.
Really with that time-period it felt like game-designers were given more personal freedom to create their own vision–it helps that there were smaller development groups back then, which gave games a more personal emphasis–without any business people above them providing oversight and making suggestions. You could sort of see the imaginations and artistic initiative of the developers show through more in the games back then, which was something that I found to be captivating. To be fair, everything was new and fresh back then also and it often felt like the sky was the limit; you didn't have as much of a "been there, done that" feeling.
But a good point is made, you cannot always rationalize why one game is held in higher regard than a product that would appear superior on the surface. Is there more to a game like Ratchet and Clank than SMB? You bet there is, but I was much more enthralled with SMB at that time than I could ever be with Ratchet and Clank, even though it is a solid product. There is much more to Ratchet and Clank, but it is also much more tedious to play and the game-play of this and similar games can drag a bit; something that was never a problem with SMB, so there are other aspects to consider.
My personal favorite game is Y's Book 1 & 2 for Turbo-Duo. Again it could be argued that other RPG's offer more in one way or another and therefore are superior, but that moment and at that time I have never been more enthralled with a video-game, although plenty of other games have provided comparable experiences.
One specific thing that makes me remember some games more fondly than others over a long period of time is if it had a really stellar soundtrack, this element tends to resonate with me.
Yes, I would consider the Golden Age to be the 8 and 16-bit eras as well. Of course, another thing we have to remember about smaller studios and developers at the time was that publishers exist as a sort of middle man. The big publishers of today won't release absolute crap…and when I say crap, I mean broken games. If people think even the worst games of today can compare with the worst ones of yesteryear, they were never there. They put out games that were completely and entirely BROKEN. Heh.
Also, the frequency of great titles is so unbelievably high in relation to those times. Remember trying to rent a NES or even a SNES game every weekend or something? There was a REASON a lot of us played the same games over and over, and it's just because instead of several great titles coming out in any given month (as it is now), we'd only get several great ones in a YEAR. Oh, and I regret never having played the Ys games. 🙁
As for your last comment…this must mean you love Castlevania: Symphony of the Night as much as I do. 😉
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/15/2008 1:26:05 AM
I understand the nostalgia of 8 and 16-bit eras. But really, during those days, what was on the home consoles paled in comparison to what was in the arcades. I always got the feeling that we were only playing econo-versions of the quarter-eaters. I don't think the line became blurred until the 32-bit era. And during this generation, especially because of online play, arcades nearly have become a thing of the past.
Echoing the words of ShiningPhantasy, for me the Golden Age of computing and gaming were the 8bit and 16/32bit days, not necessarily consoles, but the Commodore machines. I have spent countless hours on these machines, first as a young boy and today as an adult.
Both the Commodore 64 and Commodore Amiga computers were it those days. I remember the battles fought between rival geeks about who's machine was more powerful. Yes we had fanboys from the 1980's. Battles between ZX Spectrum users and Commodore 64 users, or rivalries between Amiga and Atari ST users…
Interesting though, that today, the Classic Amiga's are still available, and there is plenty of hardware to pick up on eBay. If you do a search in YouTube for Amiga for example, you will find plenty of videos showing off what these machines could and can still do today. Many are still being actively used and enhanced. For example the latest AmigaOS, AmigaOS 4.1 has been released now and has natively been ported over to PPC processors. Amazing that development still continues…
If anyone is interested do a few searches for Amiga on Google, you will be surprised at what comes up. Anyone remeber the Amiga CD32 games console? What about the Amiga CDTV, truly ahead of its time…
Again, do a search and you will surprised at the resources available. There are still plenty of active demo groups on the Amiga, and productions still being done for the 8bit Commodore 64 too. Like "Linger in the Shadows", talented artists and groups are showing off what they can do on these machines, and how their ailing hardware can be pushed to the limits…
I am still very much into retro, however, I must admit, with a full time work, writing a huge story (on-going) and playing the PS3, trying to find any extra time to do anything more is crazy, even though I would love to be more involved in purchasing/building and restoring retro hardware…
Q!
"i aM hOme"
– For people who are active commentators please feel free to add me to your friends list – I will only accept invites from commentators regularly listed here – psn id is obvious
Last edited by Qubex on 11/15/2008 1:24:33 AM
Funny, I was just having a drink the other day and decided to jump into a game of Mario for nostalgia's sake. The re-release of Megaman 9 kind of knocked me back into reality about this whole issue, I recall my Megaman days as being very fun but now I see that you need superhuman patience and an inability to be frustrated to play that game for any length of time.
I gotta say, we are starting to sound a bit like the oldsters who insist that everything was "better in my day." I think its mostly bravado and pride that we were around the whole time, as opposed to certain fanboys who cannot make that claim.
But there must have been something more than good old feelings, or retro gaming wouldn't be so popular.
I feel really young, the first console I played was the SEGA. It think my golden age was the first time I played a PS1 game; Gran Turismo. Ah and the original Spyro game. I can clock that game over and over again and never get bored with it. Has anyone played the original Crash Bandicoot recently? I challenge anyone not to throw their controller in frustration on the level "Slippery Climb".
Though the Atari 2600 is the system that drew me to the gaming world way back when, it was the Intellivision and the later Colecovision that sucked me into the gaming universe which I never escaped from. I will always remember the many hours I spent playing Utopia and Night Stalker on the Intellivision, but Donkey Kong and Mr.Do on the Colecovision quickly became the games of choice. But then that magic, little, grey box with the red "Nintendo" lettering on it materialized out of nowhere it seemed and the rest, as they say, is history. Super Mario Brothers was a masterpiece for it's time, though I personally prefered Super Mario Brothers 2. The sheer joy and excitement that that little cube of wonderment unleashed into my room every day after school was the best times a kid could've asked for. From Final Fantasy, Metroid, River City Ransom, and Castlevania, to Tecmo Bowl, Spelunker, Contra, and The Legend of Zelda. The gaming universe was truly introduced to the world at that stage and the world embraced it with open arms. Sure the Super NES and later systems improved on everything the original NES revolutionized, but in my heart, Nintendos' little creation will live on as the true Golden Age of gaming.
Last edited by Geobaldi on 11/15/2008 3:58:10 AM
Colecovision Smurfs ftw!
the arrival of the Spectrum 128k
thats all I say…. lol
i must say im slightly envious of some of you guys that were core gamers when i wanted to be. for years the only place i could play video games was at my grand parents place and my parents just wouldnt buy me a nintendo so i completely missed some of the coolest games. i really started gaming with my sega genesis and i only paid 40 bucks at ames for it so its life was pretty much over at that time but i still remember the countless hours playing castlevania and desert strike.
The golden time for video game to me is the NES/SNES era, plus the PSX era. Maybe the feeling of good for something old is just a trick of the mind, however, it is also a reality. I can still remember I spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours on NES, beating games again and again and again like Contra, Double Dragon, Jackle, Nuu, SMB… and also spent weeks, months even years to figure out how to beat games like Castlevania, Batman, Ninja Gaiden 1,2,3, Metal Gear, Getsu Fuuma Den (which I think has the most difficult and confusing cave map of all time)– this era was my childhood, which was filled with dreams and enlightened by these wonderful games.
Then there is the Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Legend of Zelda, FF 4,5,6, Romancing Saga etc…for SNES. I still remember I just stopped advancing the Chrono Trigger game and leave the 1000AD map on TV to listen to the background music again and again and again for hours, days, weeks, during dinner time or reading time (that time we dont have the ipod with downloadable MP3 to enjoy, did not have that luxury yet).— These, are also the golden time.
Then there is the PSX with FF7, MGS, Gran Turismo, Soul Blade, Castlevania– Symphony of the Night, Chrono Cross …. I simply stare at the game scenes and let the music to play and indulge in the fantasy world without limit… the rest to me is just sweet and emotional memories. Those, the aggregation of all, are what I call the Golden Time.
I believe when 10 or 20 more years have elapsed from today, our memories will again date back to the "then good old PS2 and PS3" and again find unlimited fun those eras have brought to us, and for this reason, I say — feeling nostalgic is a psychological trick but also a reality for our beautiful mind.
P.S. @Ben and @ShiningPhatasy, great articles, totally resonate with me. Those days are just like wut your name indicates — filled with shining fatasies.
My Golden Age was On the PS1. From the moment i put ridge racer in i was hooked. Then i stuck in crash bandicoot and Wow. 😀 But before that time I owned a gameboy and i still remember playing metroid and smacking buttons randomly because i couldn't tell what was going on.
My golden age started with Maio Worlds and took off with Jet Force Gemini (My first shooter i ever played with multiplayer) but i was offically addicted to gaming when i picked up my first RPG which was Pokemon Red(I remember putting 70-80 hours into that game)
JFG FTW!
Haha Ben I think you are just getting old man. Anyway, I had a nintendo. I was very young. My golden age is actually the SNES. I remember playing Final Fantasy 3 (which is actually FF6) before I could even read. I loved every moment of it. My point being, I believe depending on how old you are the "golden age" will be different.
As for videogames being "pure" and "simple" I would have to say that is relating it to publicity and money. That statement has to do with the idea of videogames in that time. Videogames were simple. They were made to be fun, over and done with. Things work differently in this day and age, obviously. Videogames are so much more now and are moreso part of life (at least, recognized by everyone) and not only that, they have to be published and developed by a company that has $$$. Videogames are now a financially draining investment now. And with a lucritive business comes corruption. Videogames nowadays have lost their purity in that, the biggest question asked in a game'd development is "Will this make us money?" And not the type of "Will this make us money?" that is used to live happily ever after but the type that says will this make us rich and fat.
The Final Fantasy series is almost like a record of this. When Final Fantasy first came out it was made so that the creator wouldn't go under and (wouldn't this be the biggest turn in the gaming industry ever) end up working at a big business as a computer tech. Yes it had to make money but he wasn't asking for pants bursting at the seems because of all the money he made. Now we look at it today. If FFXIII bombs (doubtful) it would be death to the franchise not because of going under (which I guess in this case is a bad example because Square-enix is currently in a financial crisis and probably would go under)but because of it not making the money anymore. (IF IT BOMBED again like I said doubtful, I can see Square-Enix selling the FF license because it would make them more money than developing a new game.
Anyway long story short, and now that I have started to stray from the subject, and I don't care to look over what I wrote because I am lazy and I think I mostly got my point across, The golden age is more of a personal feeling towards an era of videogames, and the fact that videogames were pure and simple had to do with the fact that they were simple in that they were made to be fun and pure in that it was not a huge industry. So excuse my huge run-on sentences and bad grammar, etc, etc but I stayed up all night writing a paper/playing CODWAW that I didn't care. I apologize. Thanks Opinion END HERE.
Last edited by Fatcat3788 on 11/15/2008 11:26:51 AM
Golden age = The time were creativity within "gaming"(in this instance) was at its peak.
And I can say without a doubt that the Nintendo-Super Nintendo era had the most impact AND creativity out of all of the gaming eras, period.
And creativity? …sorry, not a chance. Developers were so restricted at the time, they simply didn't have a fraction of the OPPORTUNITY to be as creative as developers now.
Nothing in those eras can even begin to approach games like LittleBigPlanet, MGS4, Mirror's Edge, etc. It just isn't happening. As much as I love the NES/SNES era, it's impossible to say they were anything but simple fun.
Not sure I agree with you Ben. Developers all seem to steal each others' ideas now. In the NES/SNES days, things were still new – for the most part, they had to come up with things on their own.
I can see the creativity argument both ways; on one hand developers in the 16-bit era had more versatility to make games exactly how they wanted and to implement their own personal touches and nuances within their project, without requiring the approval of a higher business authority, people who often do not understand or identify with the unique aspects that separate video-games from other forms of electronic entertainment.
It is also true that developers now have the tools and technology to push the envelope of creativity more than before, but I am not convinced that game-creators are quite as passionate about game-creation as they used to be, or perhaps to put it another way, there are not as many upper-tier development groups as there used to be.
Look at Sega for example; they used to have so many strong development groups under their wing in the early 32-Bit era; Game-Arts, Amusement Vision, Sonic Software Planning (Camelot) Sonic Team, Team Andromeda, AM2 and AM3, Ancient, as well as a handful of others; now they have next to nothing and will often outsource their storied franchises to unworthy developers. Some of these quality developers moved on to work for other companies, but most of them disbanded entirely.
I guess to put it another way, there is more potential for wow-factor in the current and most previous eras, but the fun-factor still is more prevalent in eras of the past, and there seemed to be more projects and franchises to be truly enthusiastic about, even in spite of less quantity overall. I felt that the 16 and 32-bit eras were probably the best combination of fun-factor, accessibility, and sophistication from a game-play standpoint; but we all have different and varied ideas of what kind of gaming experiences stimulate us. For example, my interest in a game experience will waver if too much customization or other busy-work is required or encouraged; I do not mind a little grinding, but some games in the modern era push the concepts a bit too far for my liking; sometimes more is not always more.
Last edited by ShiningPhantasy on 11/15/2008 1:59:56 PM
You know, I have to dispel this bizarre notion that publishers somehow "tell" developers what to do. This does happen where it certainly didn't happen before, no doubt, but you're all assuming this is a 100% negative thing, and that it happens all the time. Both assumptions are wrong.
I'm not sure how this idea got started, but most publishers aren't always breathing down the necks of developers, ESPECIALLY if the developer has proven themselves. Do you honestly believe Sony was watching every step Insomniac took with R2? Would Konami REALLY fight Kojima in the making of MGS4? Of course not. They may have requested updates of the progress, of course, but they're not about to jump in somewhere and say, "no, do this." This doesn't happen unless the developers are completely lost.
And the publishers aren't idiots. They have a job to do, and they're the REASON we don't see broken games on store shelves these days. Furthermore, I've seen many more examples of developers praising their publishing partner for helping rather than hindering. Hence, the argument that developers had "more freedom" way back when is only partially correct, and it wasn't exactly a GOOD thing.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/15/2008 2:57:35 PM
The whole notion that publishers tell devs what they can't and can't do is a simple way of explaining all the "WTF? Why is THAT in there?" moments. People prefer to blame the Money-hogging Publisher than the Champion-of-the-People Developer.
I happen to prefer simpler games. Kill the bad guy, get the girl. kill the monster, get the loot. race from here to here. that sorta thing.
that means that most often, i'm going back to older-ish games. Not as old as SMB, but more towards the transition area between N64/PS1 and the Era of The PS2. Right in there just seems to be perfect for me.
not to say I dont like new games; I can go a solid hour on BFBC or Burnout, or even LBP. After that hour is up, though, i'll most likely be tired of all the stress, and unwind with something like Super Mario Advance 3, or Monster Hunter Freedom 2. I like the New games, but its the old ones i can play forever.
Then again, I have almost no furniture in the house, and i sleep on a mattress on the floor. Simple is my thing.
Nothing wrong with simple, especially today. It's always a bonus to go back and play the games from whatever you consider to be the "Golden Age." It's like a privilege. 🙂
I think my Sears Tele-Games IV system (1977) is still in my parents' basement…I think I'll look for it while I'm there for Thanksgiving. 🙂 I think there's an Atari 130XE and maybe a ColecoVision (BEST Donkey Kong port!) lurking around there too!
I played Golden Axe the other day. I nearly vomited…despite the fond memories of kicking the sh*t (and potions) out of the magic gnomes.
Never before has an article of mine been reduced to so perfect a summary. And how short, too.
Now I'm embarrassed. 😉
Haha, Ben. I actually bothered playing a couple of ancient titles because of reading the week-in-review article.
Ben, you always seem to write on articles and topics that churn in my head that I'm too busy to write down in a cohesive fashion. And your reasoning and opinions are very similar to my thinking. With that said, that was yet another great article that I not only agree with, but as BigBoss4ever noted, "totally [resonated] with me." Keep up the good work.
Thanks. I try. 🙂
The reason the NES days were the golden age for me was: Videogames were new, we hadn't seen things like it before. I remember playing the piss out of SMB until i was 9-10 years old (until I got a PS2). It was the first game I EVER played. The reason I'm not so impressed by current titles is that I expect more now. I've been playing games for 13 years, so I'm judging every new title against the fun I had playing every other one. Games aren't a new thing anymore. I wish my sister hadn't overheated our NES under some clothes… (sobs uncontrollably) Just kidding lol.
Last edited by somethingrandom on 11/16/2008 5:34:27 PM
Hi, been a long-time lurker and avid reader here, so I figured time to step out of the shadows for a few to help reminice the golden ages.
BTW, this is the best gaming site bar none IMHO & the only site I use to keep current with whatever's up.
About me… just turned 56, and I'm a "old school"(respect means everything) motorcycle club biker.
I entered the gaming era buying the Intellivision & Colecovision systems(but like a dumb ass I had gotten rid of them years ago).
But I do intend to buy those systems & games once again in the future, and like a fix, to this day I still crave my old favs on them…. Dungeons & Dragons, Donkey Kong, & Burger-Time.
I've collected 9 gaming systems since then(learned my lession to never sell any gaming systems again!!!!). I still enjoy going back & playing every one of them every now & then but it seems that these days, I don't have enough time in 24 hours.
I'm not a "avid" gamer by any means, or any good at most of them either, and I've yet to be able complete more than a handful of them.
I don't do games on-line either because I just might get the smart-asse's IP address & go hunting him down in real-time, and they would not enjoy opening their door, only to see a large ring covered fist right before it slams their nose flat(remembering I said "it's all about respect"?) LOL.
Anyways, back to gaming, although I have some RPG's, I don't really go for them much(but to each their own). I prefer the Military combat, shooters, fighter jet games(I'm pissed that Ace Combat has flown to Xbox360 though), some puzzle games, & even a few silly-ass games.
I try to buy the majority of my games & systems "used", just gotta have that extra money,= more games.
I have some games that I'll never play, but I still want them all towards completing the whole collection. Once I was even got a great tip from a employee about his gaming store going under, & he sold me the last 310 used PS1 games they had left fand or only $75. Most of the great titles had already been picked over, so some of the ones I got weren't the type I'd buy(sports, RGPS, etc), but there were a still few gems included in the lot. Plus, the nice after-effect was that I was able to get over 3/4 of my money right back by selling off the 20 or so doubles I already had.
Anyways, here's a list of the systems I have now(& number of games), along with my favorite games for the system.
(for the gamers around my age, how's about "a trip down memory lane" with me?)
Atari Jaguar (25 Cartridges) and the /64 bit CD unit (9 discs)
Favorite games: Wolfenstein 3D, Battle Morf, Hover Strike, Raymond, Super Burnout, & Tempest
Panasonic 3DO (52 discs)
Fav games: Icebreaker, Pa-Tank 3D Pinball, The Incredible Machine, Last Bounty Hunter, & PTO.
Sega Genisis (140 cartridges)
Fav games: Vector-man 1 & 2, Primal Rage, Pac-Man, the 3 Urban-Jungle-& Desert Strike series.
Nintendo 64 (78 cartridges)
Fav Games: Wetrix, Bomberman64, Quake, Turok, & Panzer Dragoon.
Sega Saturn (75 Discs)
Fav Games: Bust-A-Move, Sonic 3D, Golden Axe, & Hi-Octane.
Sega Dreamcast (48 discs)
Fav Games: Who wants to beat up a millionare?, Seaman, Crazy Taxi 1 & 2, Mr. Bones, Silent Scope, & Enemy Zero.
PlayStation 1 (536 Discs)
Fav Games: G- Police 1 & 2, Eggs Of Steel, Ace Combat's 1-2-& 3, Ape Escape, Army Men(all of them), Metal Gear Solid, Colony Wars 1-2-& 3, & Wing Commander 3 & 4.
X-Box (144 Discs)
Fav Games: Halo, Hitman, Ghost Recon(all), Splinter Cell(all), Heroes of the Pacific, Gran Turismo 1 & 2, & Max Paine 1 & 2.
Playstation 2 (95 Discs)
Fav Games: Ace Combat 4-5-& Zero, Gran Turismo 3 & 4, Socom(all), & Syphon Filter.
At this moment, I don't own the 360, or PS3, although I hope to in the near future. Since I usually buy used, I'm in my wait-see mode right now on just when, & how much, they'll come down next year. Then I'll buy both & their games cheaper(But I'm still a little leary about getting a 360, due to all of it's history of RROD problems).
Ok, done, and back to "lurk mode".