Ben-DutkaFirst, let me just say one thing:
In all forms of fantasy, there is exaggeration based on deeply entrenched ideas of desire and beauty.
While it's certainly true that females are objectified far more often in all walks of life, including entertainment, it'd be wrong to think male characters are immune. The Duke Nukem character model was just as impossible and insulting as the original Lara Croft model, and grizzled lantern-jawed, ridiculously muscular men dominated gaming heroes for decades.
That being said, let's focus on the strides female characters have taken in the world of interactive entertainment. There are countless examples it seems. The revamped Lara arguably leads the charge but there are many, many other women characters that are starting to break all previous molds. So, what are we seeing now? Women that are admittedly pretty, even beautiful, but they're not impossibly built; the new Lara and other characters don't look like the DoA girls . These new ladies are young and healthy but otherwise, they're not absurdly proportioned. Most importantly, they exist to help drive a solid narrative; they're important characters with brains, ambition, and interesting personalities.
Think about the great female characters we've seen over the past six or seven years. There's Elena in the Uncharted series, in my memory one of the first women in games that actually seemed real . That really got the ball rolling; now, we've got Elise from Assassin's Creed Unity , Faith in Mirror's Edge (the new adventure is coming soon), the amazing women of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt , and more are coming down the pike. For example, we'll be able to play as Emily in Dishonored 2 . Ellie in The Last Of Us ? Amanda Ripley in Alien: Isolation ? Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite ? The list goes on and on.
In The Witcher 3 , there are several hugely important female characters that are amazing in more ways than one. I don't remember playing a major game with so many integral women and even more incredibly, they all have distinctly different personalities, they all add something meaningful to the narrative, and yeah, they're all gorgeous. But again, not in a way that makes you roll your eyes. It's more of an exotic accessibility in my estimation and besides, their personalities are what you remember. The bottom line is that I don't think this is a time for complaining; I think it's a time for celebration.
That's what made doughnut drake funny, he was a fatty. Like, ya know, most of my fellow Americans. We need more "no muscles" heroes like Cloud and Dante. Huge phallic weapons and no need for the muscles to hold them 🙂
Anyhow I'm glad Horizon didn't get dumbed down to a brute male protagonist. I like to play as the womenfolk, it's just more fun. The fact that they often look ideal is just a function of entertainment.
…I love Michelle Rodriguez, she's hot and yet not hot, but she kicks ass, and that's hot. Ya dig?
Michelle Rodriguez is badass, but I prefer Milla Jovovich. Damn sexy ass kicker.
Eh, I'm pretty sure there were a lot of female protagonists coming out from ྟ to 2000. Don't get me wrong, I think having various characters is a good thing, but I wouldn't applaud these developers for being so 'progressive' and whatnot.
I could do without ever hearing the word "trope" again.
Those shows are not exceptions, they were the rule for decades and the trope still persists today, though it's thankfully dying out.
I agree, World, it's a 'function of culture', if that means it is a byproduct of who is creating the pop culture in question. That's a problem, though, not an excuse. When white men are creating or producing 99% of the entertainment we consume, it's only natural that said entertainment is inherently misogynistic and racist. It doesn't have to be blatant to exist, or be a problem, either.
The Bechdel Test does a pretty good job of illustrating the problem. To pass this simple test a movie only needs to have two female characters who talk to each other about anything other than a man.
Famous movies that fail this test include Star Wars (yes all of them), The Lord of the Rings (all of these, too), Avatar, Rocky, The Social Network, and about 40% of all movies so I'm not going to type them all out.
Hollywood can't even simulate women as real people with interests other than men almost half the time, and that's a problem.
Likewise with games, we still have a vast majority that treat women as nothing but sex objects or damsels in need of our manly heroics or both. Male characters are idealized, sure, but they're idealized in a way that flatters us by exaggerating strength, intelligence, integrity, and bravery, not by having dudes walking around with dongs the size of small trees.
Most people whining about 'social justice warriors' are, unsurprisingly, white dudes. The one demographic that is never underrepresented in media, the one demographic that isn't routinely defined by their physical measurements.
You can say this isn't a problem, but that's only because it's not your problem. But what if the vast majority of entertainment portrayed white men as nothing but dumb sex machines who constantly needed saving by women, if they were portrayed at all?
You think that might get annoying after awhile?
Last edited by Bio on 7/18/2015 4:35:45 PM
I too am tired of the ongoing "oppression olympics" that is growing in society today. I think the fundemental thing that is constantly misinterpreted, is human nature.
we're very visualy minded creatures, when we see something we like our brain tells us "thats nice!" or "i want that" but some groups (who consider themselves feminists, i state i fully understand not all feminists are alike or believe the same things)put forward the absurd notion that when a man sees an attractive women, he sees a Chocolate Bar. he just wants to take the wrapper off and devour it. These people skew human social interaction and sexuality to make it something dirty and shameful, they have a twisted world view.
When you see beautiful men and women on billboards, tv shows, movies, youre not seeing objectification. youre seeing idealisation and aspiration, but of course people disagree on whats aspirational and ideal and so we find ourselves here!
Fully agreed. I don't even buy the premise that women get it worse. It's just that nobody even notices the images young men need to live up to because there's this narrative that men can't be oversexualized (a myth if you ever saw David Beckham in anything) and/or that as men we aren't able to talk about it or we sound like whiney babies.
I'm not satisfied with western companies. They are bending to the demands of small groups that don't even play games.
A game is a place where you escape reality. You see things you don't see and you do things you can't do. I like it when a game contains a few over the top charismatic women. Now recently released games are trying to please a crowd that likes to feel offended about just about anything and they are making women look average or bad in games…
By comparison, we still have bulky and muscular guys and we don't care. Even if they are impossible in proportion we just think they are cool and probably aspire to looking like that. Just saddens me that they are trying to make women game characters look like even worse than what we see in the streets! I live in Montreal and 90% of the women in the street completely destroy any women in the new dragon age for example.
So yeah please stop listening to those groups that have a boring life and only like to complain about every little thing they will ever see. They are not people who enjoy escaping reality, they are lowly people who like to think their life is miserable and are trying their best for everyone around them to also have a miserable life. Because in the end I stopped playing Dragon Age and probably won't buy the next effort and I am now starting to be disgusted as soon as I see a developer trying to please those crowds of non-gamers.
Also you probably noticed but any developer that will try to please them will likely be bitten back at the smallest little detail in the game that could from the most extreme angle look like it could maybe at 1% look like it takes advantage of a woman in a situation lol …
Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 7/21/2015 12:51:05 PM
I agree even on Comics Nightwing (Dick Grayson) is more sexualised than Catwoman lol!
"Male's are objectified every bit as much as women"
It does happen for sure.
But as often as it happens to women? Not even close.
I mean seriously, how can anybody over a certain age and who is exposed to most media (TV/print) say that with a straight face?
Lets not kid ourselves with how things really are. Sex sells and that is the damn truth. And 8 times out of 10, its a FEMALE model doing the selling when it comes to that.
I don't agree with either of the extremists (feminists/MRA advocates). Because they both have an agenda and hyperbole is usually their preferred means to get a point across.
So why don't we just live and let live? We still have our DOA games with girls with big tatas. And they got their kickass female protags.
So why are we complaining about anything here? We should all be happy that we have what we want.