Ben-DutkaThere's no doubt that motion sensing makes more sense with certain genres, and that it's kinda "awkward" with other categories of gaming.
As far as role-playing games go, one wouldn't really expect either PlayStation Move or Kinect to be major enhancements, and Square-Enix boss Yoshinori Kitase agrees. He's making the rounds, promoting the heck out of The 3rd Birthday for the PSP, and he recently spoke to Eurogamer about how motion-sensing can impact the traditional design of RPGs. Said Kitase:
"…it is quite awkward, particularly for example in Final Fantasy XIII. That kind of interface is quite difficult to be included in the RPG. …The main difference between shooting games and RPGs – obviously there are some – but shooting games probably amount to up to 10 to 15 hours of gameplay.
But an RPG, you have to improve your character fight and fight and fight, and then the ending, and then more to play with, that could be 40 to 50 hours. It's quite continuous play, even though you don't have one go, obviously. That kind of technique might not fit so well with a very continuous title that requires long gameplay."
However, because The 3rd Birthday – and indeed, the Parasite Eve series on the whole – settles into the shooter realm, Kitase said he'd "love to expand the franchise" and he believes such technology "could be quite handy" in the future. But yes, for our part, we can't really picture gamers feverishly swinging a sword for hours on end in an RPG and furthermore, the focus is on the depth and intricacy of the gameplay structure itself. In short, we don't need Move compatibility for Final Fantasy Versus XIII . We just need the game to rule.
Oh gawd please don't let motion controls come anywhere near RPGs.
Agreed. They have no place – with the solitary possible exception of a 'skill based' mini-game that uses motion control in some fashion.
I disagree. If the PS Move can be used for sword fighting, there is no logical reason for it not to be in there.
If you don't like, don't use it. Bottom line.
max it goes a little further than simply "not using it". Think of the wasted development time and constraints brought about by having to design a game for drastically different control types.
You honestly can picture yourself playing FFXII with motion controls and enjoying it?
Yo, Max. If you're swinging a control to simulate a sword in an RPG, then it would NOT be an RPG.
@Jordahn I dont get your comment. Oblivion is an RPG, a damn fine one at that, and that game involves a lot of sword fighting, and IMO would be ace with PS Move
Ed, while swinging away wildly might be good in RPGs like Oblivion, you might not want to be standing there like a knob while you spend a half hour going through town just talking to people and upgrading equipment.
And Oblivion is kind of an exception even as far as that, Demon's Souls was suffer greatly if it had to cater to the Move.
I think that Jordan meant if you physically swing something it would actually bring physical action to it and kinda draws away from the whole idea behind the RPG to be a more imaginated orientated experience rather than a simulation of a situation and event set to a story line. In all fairness that is subjective though, so it could go either way.
IMO, i think motion cont can work really well with WRPGs, jus keep it the fu** away from JRPGs (oh and J devs, bring the JRPG back to its roots where it belongs, that doesnt mean stay archaic, theres tons of ways to breath new life into it, w/o having to "westernise"
P.S. soz for spelling and grammer, Im a bit high.
Vertigo –
I understand your point and how it's "technically" possible, but come on. With a big budget title like Final Fantasy, it would be a non factor. With a smaller title, it might actually mean a profit!!
Jordahn –
To you perhaps. But to me, and others like me, the Move just replaces the button press with an arm swing. Think about it. The RPG system such as the leveling up system and customization would not change. It might in the user interface, but that's it.
ed_winchester –
My thoughts exactly. I keep thinking of that PS Move game in where a guy is using a sword and shield while fighting. That's how I see Oblivion.
World –
How? You are going to have to explain how Demon's Souls would have "suffered greatly" with the Move. Considering Demon's Souls could have used the extra sales, that kind of update makes sense.
Last edited by maxpontiac on 9/7/2010 5:26:11 PM
Timing is exceptionally important in Demon's Souls, despite the 1:1 claim behind the Move, it isn't exact, as such, there will be a microsecond of noticable lag. The kind that gets you very dead in that game.
Zelda is a genre of Adventure/RPG. Just that it doesn't have a level up system. It was phenomenal on the Wii. I don't see why it can't work with other RPGs.
Level 5's Ghibli project uses Move as optional. I don't see a problem with that at all! Move is the reason it's coming to PS3 from touch screen DS after all.
So, i'd ask those in the nay, would you be that firm even if it cost you a golden era RPG dev Level 5 and Ghibli joint project?
I think it's fine because 1. It's optional and 2. It'd be cool to wave your wand for spell use.
If it became mandatory then yeah, i'd have a problem.
Last edited by Lotusflow3r on 9/7/2010 10:58:31 AM
I'll have a problem with this "optional" stance when it makes a game I want delayed for "tweeking".
@LV,
If it's baked in from the start there should be no change to the delivery time for games, so your worry is probably unwarranted.
Highlander,
Games get delayed all the time, I'm just being a debbie downer and pointing out this adds one more reason to the list.
LOL!
You're just a big, fat, buzz kill!
😉
Meh, it'd just be another notch in the "What SE has done to kill the RPG" list.
What have they done to kill the RPG?
Where have YOU been?
They like, ripped out its heart, stomped on its throat, spit down its neck, sat on it and cut one.
I'd ask you the same. FF is a series that's been around for over 2 decades and each game in the series has offered a rewarding RPG system and recieved great reviews from critics and gamers.
They release one game, FFXIII, that doesn't meet most people's expectations and now they're killing the RPG?
If you're going to make a comment like that about SE and RPGs I think it's fair to ask you to offer several reasons.
Well for starters, World gave 5 reasons there.
Reason 6: SE is sending a strong message. Business of course must happen. And if they don't feel that a quality RPG will sell, they'll either westernize it or make a different version and call it an RPG. (Whether it's action, adventure, or even a shooter, doesn't seem to matter.)
7: Sequels seem to jump systems sporadically (DQ9 anyone?)
8: They remove important gameplay elements (which in and of itself is many reasons. And not just with FF. What about Front Mission?)
9: The comments Wada makes to the media (This is like 50 reasons alone if you look into everything he's ever said) for example: "Whaaa?!?! What do you MEAN you'd like a FF7 remake?? No… I've never heard that in my life!" or "Hey, lets cater to the westerners. I don't think that what we've been doing the last 20 years will work… despite the fact that it's worked."
10: If you look at their self-proclaimed RPG titles, they are really not very RPG-ish, often action or adventure in nature. It's gotten to the point with the last 2 years worth of interviews, the announcement of a SE RPG could mean anything. And you have to admit, it's often disappointing.
11: Quality RPG gameplay, like what will likely be FFXIV and has been in FFXI come at a huge cost. It's as if they are limiting a genuine RPG experience to a pay-per-use MMO. So hardcore RPG'ers loyal to SE have no choice but to continually pay a monthly fee to SE. (This is necessary for an MMO, of course, but the RPG elements seem reserved for this title)
12: Guys like Tetsuya Nomura give tweets and newsfeed that seem to be genuinely focused on reassuring us that the titles he's doing will be better. "Don't worry, we're working with the PS3" or "Don't worry, this one actually feels like the olden days!"
(All my quotes are paraphrases, of course)
and last reason number 13 (appropriate, no?): SE seems to be scared of offering a true RPG to a large console. Any and ALL fan service is reserved for low cost consoles. There is no emphasis from SE to continue it's trend of quality RPG's for the new console. FFvXIII may be the first from them for the PS3. And even then, I'm willing to bet Wada wants to whore himself out to microsoft. FFXIII was a great game, and I'll agree with you and Ben. But it's a piss poor excuse for a FF and an RPG. It's more of an action/adventure game.
It would definitely work in Demon's Souls.
Why would we need motion senser for RPG?
It's not like action is the main priority of RPG.
action is the main part now. just look at ff13
Motion control could work for an RPG, but it would have to be rationed. I bet there are some clever people out there that can think of some fun puzzles, mini games and boss fights that use motion control.
If the game is not meant to be played with motion controls (Final Fantasy games) so be it. Please add more mini-games and non-linearity to the those games instead.
That doesn't mean some other rpgs could still use the new technology. A good example could be Sorcerer, which was meant to be played with the new motion controllers.
I honestly don't want motion controls in any existing games or franchises. I think they should make new IPs for a new kind of controller. Implementing it into an established product would only be a big mistake (like with SOCOM, I don't like the looks of SOCOM 4 at all).
While I do agree Move is terrible, I don't believe S4 looks bad because of the Move. S4 looks terrible for 2 reasons, 1.cover (SOCOM doesn't need a cover system) and 2.Health Regen. I do agree that Move should NOT be implemented into major releases an optional control scheme. That money should be used towards better QC testing and better dev tool development. Games suffer from lack of time and funds to add more crap to the pile.
Because SOCOM is a third-person shooter and already allows the player to lean, I would agree that it doesn't NEED a cover system, but I do think that a cover system will make the gameplay more realistic, which is exactly what I want from SOCOM.
No soldier stands exposed when under fire unless he freezes (and then he isn't standing for long).
I totally agree about regenerating health; I hated it in Uncharted (didn't ruin the games, though) and it has no place in SOCOM.
Edit: Wow, this comment is really off-topic, so…
I really don't see any benefit to using motion controls in JRPGs, but this quote does just sound like S-E making excuses again. The only thing I'm more tired of than S-E making boneheaded pronouncements is the vitriolic reaction to those boneheaded pronouncements.
S-E, please stop.
Last edited by Fane1024 on 9/7/2010 4:50:58 PM
The grand majority of RPGs these days are on the DS and the "point to the side of the screen to make your character walk" controls are just stupid and oftentimes skipped in favor of the d-pad.
Perfect example of that of course is DQIX.
Then you look at Etrian Odyssey. Fantastic, brutal, old school RPG. Uses motion to allow gamers to draw their own maps. Awesome, even if getting the stylus out periodically is a bit of a nuisance.
The problem with the Move is that it'll cost you. Would I pay extra for this kind of trivial game mechanic? I don't think that I would.
Yeah, using a motion controller to engage auto battle would be kind of silly LOL.
Let's just add this to the growing list of things that S-E finds "awkward" in their RPGs:
Motion Control
Towns
Forks in the road
Buttons on the controller other than "X"
/sarcasm/ (in case you missed it)
Use Move to select from the menus of a turn-based RPG. I could maybe get behind that idea. But I think that most RPGs are quite akin to Oblivion, so lots of random sword swinging. I suppose were they to build a game from the ground up to incorporate it, it could be good, but just putting in a lot of sword swingin or whatever would be far too tiring to want to do for too long (That makes me sound really lazy…)
Peace.
lazy
I think what people are trying to say is, HEY you stole our turn based strategy based battles and dumbed them down for eeeediots that need 100% action based combat.
Don't you take that away too and make it motion based combat!
im happy with not using move in vsXIII
I've always though Legend of Dragoon would be fun with optional Motion Control. Rose Storm with PS Move anyone? … Maybe I'm wrong.
It just takes one creative guy/gal to come up with a fresh way of using the new interface. Personally I'd rather not go around in an RPG hacking and slashing by flinging around my arms endlessly. However, I wouldn't have a problem if it was implemented in a new way that utilized the function sparingly but enjoyably so.
This is probably a terrible analogy in a million different ways, but I'm reminded of what Orson Welles said when he was told the bigwigs wanted to "colorize" Citizen Kane:
"You keep Ted Turner and his damn Crayolas away from my movie."
He later did Transformers The Movie, just saying…..
Vertigo:
Uhh… what?
ORSON WELLES was an actor in Transformers The Movie
Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 9/7/2010 9:04:21 PM
His words make good sense. If the motion controller was implemented in a way that isn't too vigorous, then it would probably make sense. It's still got all the buttons a normal controller has, thought it's not as comfortable as a Dualshock 3 controller. Like maybe during a special rapid attack type of move, slash away and try to get as many hits in as possible would be an effective way to implement the move, as well as using it in some types of magic attacks, moving the controller in certain ways to cast the spell, and maybe even making some other uses of it that don't pertain to battle. But the most important part of all would be to give the option to turn it on or off or something. Point and Click adventure games, on the other hand (like the old Sam & Max games) would be pretty awesome if they start bringing in some old PC games over to the PSN. Give an option to use the Move controller and the point and click game would become much more engaging, am I right? But that's a different story, lol. :p
why?
move seems like the perfect thing for a RPG, thats one thing bioware should add to ME2 to entice ps3 owners to buy it!
one game i really want to see move working with is metal gear rising.
being a hack and slash game move is the perfect fit for it!