Ben-DutkaA lot of companies are outsourcing these days. …it's just a little disheartening to hear that Square Enix will do it with Final Fantasy .
As many know, the development time for Final Fantasy XIII was long and arduous, and it cost more than the publisher would've liked. FFXIII and FFXIII-2 director Motomu Toriyama said at the peak of development time for FFXIII, there were over 200 people working on it and in short, with that large-scale development team, they didn't use their time very well . Said Toriyama:
"How do you communicate to everyone in the department what the drive of the game is? We decided we needed to create more practical milestones, not story-based ones."
They realized they "needed to apply more Western technology and production techniques" as time went on, so when it comes to large-scale projects in the future, Square Enix will tackle them a little differently. Basically, it won't be a 100% internal design process; outsourcing will allow them to hit their targets faster.
"We are also thinking that we will not do large-scale internal development any longer. We have a lot of great creators in Square Enix, but for larger-scale development we will be doing more distributed and outsourced development to reach our targets on time."
They'd go for a monthly milestone form of development, where they've got goals set for each month and they "decide the core of what we need to do, and plan for that." And even though development for FFXIII-2 was smoother and faster, Toriyama believes they could still improve. As it turns out, they didn't have time to implement all the fixes and changes the fans asked for after FFXIII.
I have no reaction. Outsource? Yeah, sure, go ahead. Whatever.
When I hear "they don't use their time well" when it comes to large-scale projects, Final Fantasy Versus XIII comes to mind.
Last edited by shadowscorpio on 6/28/2012 11:43:07 AM
Hmmmm, I think my Bullsh!t meter just went off the charts…..
SE wants to shed themselves of their workforce, just so they can get cheap labor.
Just like my last f*cking new bosses at the Trump Taj Mahal casino did to all all of us "day #1 employees"(me included) on what we all refer to now as, "The Mothers Day Weekend Massacre of 2011"
WOW that sucks man. Poor you
Mine too. What I read translated as;
"Our management is so crap that we cannot manage our projects in realistic timescales and spend too long focusing on peripheral issues. Instead of fixing this by hiring competent managers and firing the incompetent ones, we've chosen to give up on development ourselves. Instead we will outsource it to workers that are lots cheaper and can be hired and fired at a moment's notice unlike our own expensive permanent employees – of whom there will now be fewer…"
Oh, wait, now I read that back, it does sound like they are adopting Western techniques…
Yeah, 21 loyal years & all I got when I was canned(just so they could replace me with a part-time seasonal or an on-call new hire), was 2 measly frigging weeks severance pay at $7.80 an hour.
And all without the $20 to $28 average hourly tip-rate from good customers that we dealers actually depended on to survive because all casino's are so tight-wad McScrooge cheap, that starting pay for dealers is at only around $3.85 to $4.00 an hour.
Last edited by BikerSaint on 6/28/2012 2:18:12 PM
Those rates would never fly in Canada. If you work in food service or something that relies on tips, minimum wage in Ontario is $8.65. All other jobs that don't rely on gratuity? Minimum is $10.25.
Cannot ever go less than that. It's illegal. It should be for you guys, too.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/28/2012 5:41:38 PM
You know, it's not too surprising because most business companies look for cheap labors anyway, which is evident on why so many things are made in China. For this to reach out to game developing, is too early to tell on why it'll be good or not. Usually cheap labor mean less quality, BUT it's not always the case. We'll have to see.
Also, I'm sorry as well for your job. My parents suffered a similar action a month ago. 🙁
Underdog,
You guys got a much better pay scale up there.
Hell, I don't know exactly what ours rates are exactly anymore since I've never been out of work since I was a 14 year old wee tyke at before this. hell, I've never even been laid off or fired before this BS happened.
And even though I always had superior evaluations every year, it means zilch because New Jersey is a "At Will" state, which means a casino can fire you at will & without cause, without much recourse for the fired employee.
Anyway, I think N.J's minimum pay scale is somewhere in the $7.50 to 8.50 & a tip job is around $3.85 to 4.25 now, but don't quote me on that.
I do know that when I started out at Caesars Casino in Atlantic City in 1980, the minimum tip scale was only $3.75, plus my hourly share of the pooled customers tips. And it was the same tip rate when I drove limos for high-rollers & celebrity's too.
And 10 years later in 1990 when I opened the Trump Taj Mahal casino, the minimum tip pay scale had only risen a measly 10 cents, to $3.85, "that's ONE frigging penny more a year".
While the whole time the casino's were singing the money blues, but all their big-wigs were still lining every single pocket with all their million dollar-plus bonuses every year.
Last edited by BikerSaint on 6/28/2012 10:41:59 PM
it sounds good here in Canada but actually its about the same. Our taxes are much higher so it actually balances out. People think its much better here the only better part is the economy so far we have a strong banking sector but that could change instantly.
SE is completely blind to the problems that plagued FFXIII. The graphics and production values were top notch for the game. I don't know of anyone complaining about that. The problem was the lack of RPG elements. Whether SE has 200 people working on the next FF or only a few dozen we're all screwed.
Well, they did address that RPG lacking in FFXIII-2 to some extent. I have to admit, despite the lame story, I loved it.
I must not have played it enough. I can't believe I'm having trouble finishing a FF game.
I'm not really against outsourcing here. They're doing it to speed up production and use their own resources better. That means fewer of their great internal designers will be stuck on a single game. Smaller groups of their own designers could be assigned to many different outsourced teams on many more projects–much better than having all 200 people working on one project.
I think we should be seeing more products coming out a more frequently from SE, which sounds good to me.
I'm sure going multi-plat didn't help things either. I keep seeing FF13-2 for $20 at Amazon now and again. Just not feeling it right now.
haha how ironic. I don't get to town much but today my family and I went to a shopping plaza. The best buy there has FF13-2 for $20. I noticed it came with some fancy art book novel-thing. I figured this was my last best chance to get it before it got that hideous red case so I got it =)
Last edited by Temjin001 on 6/28/2012 2:42:43 PM
Enjoy!
…you wont!
well, I started it to watch/play the first hour of it. I'm enjoying it real well so far. All of the artistry (the non-gay kind) is still awe inspiring. Plus, the music is great stuff. It's exactly what I signed up for from what I can tell.
SE is so screwed up now, I don't think that they have any way back. The further they go down this path the more hollowed out the shell becomes. At some point the shell will collapse in on itself under it's own weight.
yeah, it does suck Obamacare ruled constitutional. Oh wait, we're talking about S-E
Don't get me started Tem.
Yeah, so happy to hear you guys all got standardized health care to a certain extent. Having a standard minimum for all citizens is awesome! Welcome to the first world!
I strongly disagree with it World. It won't work and just like the rest of the socialist programs this country has (welfare) it will result in myself paying for deadbeat losers to ride the system.
I sort of understand the argument against welfare (but working in employment services, I know how insulting it is to the 90%+ that are on it that don't want to be having to listen to you say they "ride" it.. maybe it's different down south of the border, though..) but standardized health care? Jeeze… standard and necessary health care should ideally be accessible by every human in the world… That's a stupid ass argument, LV. Every first world country that has an established public health care system (all of which still have the working class continuing to invest in extended health care benefits) knows how funny it is to watch some US citizens kick and scream against the idea of being seen in a hospital.
I have a whole lot of additional insight with my dad not only being a doctor in emergency medicine, but also a former hospital administrator and now an admin for half of his province… Biggest problem with the states? Sometimes, a person who needs health care -NOW- can't access it… In Canada, you get help now and ask questions later if it's urgent. Not always the case in the US. Lose a limb on the job and don't have extended health care and can't pay for it? Well, you won't get that finger rescued. You lose it forever. In Canada? Everything that can be done will be done. No worries.
We still need plans for things like prescription meds, dental work, optometry, etc (emergencies excluded)…
Riding the system… puh-lease….. Those types of people are the extreme minority. If I'm helping a youth who got kicked out of his house because he's gay, has nothing to his name, too young to access most public programming because his guardians are required by law to do so (with no enforcement), living off food from a soup kitchen with no place to stay… you think if he comes to me, I'm going to get him a job right away? Hell no. How does he hold it if even his basic needs aren't cared for? Heck, you can't even get a job without a permanent address! I sit that kids ass down and force them to connect with welfare, get their basic needs (food and shelter) met, THEN I help them get a job.
And that's -REALLY- not a rare story, man. We aid 650+ youth per year land employment and/or education, and over 90% of them need to at some point have accessed welfare.
Blame the SYSTEM that allows the very few unmotivated people remain on welfare despite not following through on their access agreements. I can guarantee you most people do not "ride" the system. At least not here. It's necessary, and I see it every day. I usually intake about 8 new clients every week, and 6-8 of them will be on welfare already or need to be put on it to get started. (welfare will refer people to us, too)
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/28/2012 8:05:36 PM
Anyways, my point is, if it's at all similar to our health care system, then it needs to be applauded. Obviously, with my dad being a doctor, I've never experienced actually being "lower class" and I've always had access to higher health care privileges, but never have I thought public health care was bad…
I'm damn proud we've been doing it for 35 years already. (And for the record, people complained then like you guys do now. And they were wrong, as it turns out….)
Please, no political arguments here.
I'll just repeat myself and leave it at that-
When the minority has to support the majority, we're through.
The minority runs the whole country already.
Indeed World… the "minority" are the ones with the "majority" of power and money, afterall. And Ben, that's hardly a complete observation. I mean, on a basic level, are you talking about the group with the minority number of people, or the minority of power, or the minority of funding? 3 completely different minority groups on complete opposite ends of the spectrum from one another (although sometimes related).
BEAR IN MIND: I am not at all an "occupy" minded person… hate those fools.
Our 1st world way of life, while preserved through individual effort and democratic "majority" vote, is completely driven by a select few to make decisions. Even in voting, most countries elected leaders were hardly the choice of most people. It could be argued almost everywhere that more people DIDN'T want the guy that's in. He just got more votes than the opposition.
But the whole purpose of our society is that we are led by a minority of people that are given power. In fact, life is preserved best when the rich support the poor. A mentality of servitude. In fact, our leaders are supposed to be working "in service" for us. Our breakdowns occur when that focus becomes corrupted and leaders become inwardly focused. Look at any oppressive country or what happens in our own countries amidst political scandal! Once the minority in charge begin to spit on those below them, that's when problems occur. The best leaders of history that are loved by the people are the ones who protected the rights of their people. The rights of the majority.
The idea that the "minority" are those with the most, is actually a bit misguided when you consider the power they wield. In terms of power and ability, they actually have the majority of it. And they have the most ability to affect change despite any feel good underdog story out there.
Now maybe this Obamacare thing is poorly drawn up, I don't know. But I do know that the countries that are supporting their bottom lines are more secure economically and further advanced educationally. Just look at Poland and Holland right now! They used to be mocked for their advanced social service and even free post-secondary education… yet Poland is the number 1 country in the world right now for education.
Now I may be wrong, but the US lags far behind in social service because the citizens are scared of taxes, first of all, and because the "minority cannot support the majority!"… yet, last time I checked, the US isn't improving in any category right now. Might it be that there's a reason countries who have been heavily investing in social service over the last 1-2 decades are the most secure right now? Might there be a reason those countries are the ones with the highest QOL?
Not to start anything new… just sayin'… I pretty much completely disagree with that statement. Because it isn't true and the exact opposite is what has been proven thus far.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/29/2012 12:57:03 AM
Interesting that they had 200 employees working on it and they considered that too many.
A less successfull companies like 38 studios had 400 employees.
Wellll….Welllll….Welllll
I don't think I like this. Usually, outsourcing at the extent they're talking about is something publishers do for a spin-off game. It's not very clear to me what they're saying here, but if they're talking about outsourcing to different developers, that just spells disasters due to the different experiences that come from each of them. It's like Kojima Pro outsourcing to Platinum games for the main MGS franchise, or Forza outsourcing to Playground games for Forza Horizon (which is actually the case).
However, if they're taking about outsourcing for general tasks like modeling, localization, and touch ups, then this is actually good news…? I mean it would mean good news for us, but may not be for the internal development team as you guys say. For them to outsource, they'll have to get rid of someone internally to balance the cost. 🙁
Can someone explain to me how Squeenix is even staying afloat? How have their share prices not plummeted to the depths of hell?
It doesn't make any sense to stick with them.
Seriously, they are saying that Outsourcing is the way to go moving forward? What?! Are you serious Squeenix? After EVERYTHING the fans have been saying about your company, your solution to all that fan feedback, is to stop producing your own games?
Final Fantasy is officially dead.
I've said it before and I'll say it yet again, GET RID OF WADA!! That guy is truely killing what was one of the most amazing Video Game Companies of all time.
sigh.
when will companies understand certain cultures are better at certain things?
you would not ask epic to do a JRPG now would you?
theres a reason for that!
really pisses me off how the japanese industry refuses to see that there IS a market for their games!
oh COD is selling a bazillion units, that means only games like it will sell a bazillion units, so we cant make anymore japanese styled games because no one wants those types of things even though there is millions of people screaming in our ears!
seriously, what do we have to do to get through to these thick headed morons!?
Man after 21 years!!!!!!!!! WOW that's shocking