Ben-DutkaAfter Sega's final and admittedly valiant effort to stay in the hardware race, Sonic ended up on platforms that didn't say "Sega" on the box. Going into this generation, many believed Nintendo might not even release another console and follow Sega's route by becoming a third-party software developer. Well, after the immense success of the Wii and DS, that obviously isn't necessary. …for now.
But, the DS aside, the Wii's days are numbered. I'm not speaking of what may be an insurmountable lead in the hardware race; I'm talking about the future. We all know that the Wii doesn't require software to sell; it has sold and will continue to sell on the accessible, affordable motion-sensing gimmick. And just in case the rabid Nintendo fans are primed and ready to freak, let me make one thing very clear: it was an ingenious marketing tactic and nobody bet on Nintendo dominating anything after the last generation. We knew they couldn't compete on a technical level but so did they, and somehow, they managed to turn a negative into a gigantic positive by appealing to…well, to non-gamers. It was an amazing maneuver. But with PlayStation Move and Kinect right around the corner, the prices of those technologies destined to fall, and both the PS3 and Xbox 360 continuing to prove popular month after month while the Wii continues its decline, Nintendo could be facing its Waterloo.
What can Nintendo possibly do for another round of consoles? I believe the Wii to be their hardware swan song, although their lucrative portable business should continue to flourish. They can continue to sell their legendary mascots because the Wii is in so many homes but it seems exceedingly unlikely that a Wii 2 is in the works. What, they're somehow going to top Move and Kinect? With what technology? It also seems unlikely that Nintendo would want to keep Mario, Zelda, and Metroid limited to the handheld market, when they know hundreds of millions exist in the PlayStation and Xbox universes. The bottom line is that the mascots we all grew up with will eventually be on other consoles. It's almost inevitable. Sonic, we've had you for a while…Mario, we're waiting. Your coming-out party is nigh!
Naughty Bear vs. Mario & Luigi. I can see it now. Woooaaahahahahaha!
Naughty Bear? yuck. he doesn't deserve to be mentioned among Mario and Luigi
Naughty Bear SOOOOOOOOOO SUCKs. I wanted months for the release, It was a sad very sad day.
@ fluffer nutter
you should be knocked the f out for even mentioning the game in the same sentence as characters like mario and luigi
now mario bros and littlebigplanet on the same game would awesome
Last edited by manofchao5 on 7/22/2010 10:15:39 PM
playing Mario on a Playstation? I don't think I will ever but I know many people who will purchase a new Playstation if mario goes that route.
I hope you are right. I honestly do not believe that any gamer likes the wii. The nintendo die hards like the key franchises. Without those the wii would be a non-gamer only console, which it is close to being already. What does the wii have to offer? Out-dated visuals, soon to be out-dated motion controls and their legendary franchises, which either one of the other consoles could or are going to do better. I would love to get these great franchises on my ps3 and see the end of a console that has over ten year old graphics. The ps2 is dying, why isn't the wii?
You honestly don't think gamers like the Wii? Sales numbers say otherwise… as do gamers.
What I am saying is that the gamers who enjoy the wii don't enjoy it because of any attributes of the console, but the franchises.
I mean what honest core gamer is happy with previous generation graphics in this current gen? Have you seen how terrible goldeneye looks? I would have been really excited to play a remake of that game had it been for any other console.
The only type games the wii handles well are cartoony ones, which luckily their key franchises all are. I did not say no one likes the wii. What I said is that the gamers who play the wii can't be impressed with it. They play it because it is the only way to get their favorite games.
My brother played the wii almost exclusively for the first two years of it's life cycle, but he hated the motion controls. I think that the fact that the motion controls aren't optional was a mistake.
Sure the non gamers love them, but I think that most core gamers realize that with the limited technology in those controllers, they have pretty much run the course of what they can do.
And of course I am not talking about the fanboys. I am not talking about the ones who have devoted their heart and soul to nintendo in the past and are completely blind to the underpowered game cube 1.1 that nintendo has sold them.
Your wrong. There are plenty of core gamers like myself who love Nintendo and their franchises. I can't wait to get my hands on the new Metroid and Zelda. Metroid and Zelda have been two of my favorite franchises of all time.
This complaint of "it only handles cartoony graphics" is lame. Who cares? thats why i have my PS3. I happen to like what Nintendo does with their games. Their games have some of the best color and design this generation. Skyward Sword and Kirby Epic Yarn look freakin amazing. So what if they are cartoony. We have enough games with realistic graphics. I happen to appreciate how many Nintendo games look. So what if their not HD? They still look great, better then the PS2 or Xbox. Just finished playing Metroid Prime 1 and 2. They were enhanced for the Trilogy release. While they don;t look like Killzone 2 they still look great.
Last edited by Jawknee on 7/20/2010 11:04:30 PM
Who_KilledMe, graphics are nice, but they aren't everything. I don't play Joe Danger for the graphics. Infamous graphics weren't that great either, but i loved the snot out of that game.
Jawknee,
I am not saying no one likes the franchises or nintendo, I love the franchises myself, and they work great on the wii, as I said. What I am saying is that is all the wii can do, that's all that gives the wii credibility, their old franchises.
But look at some of the other games. Everything else is garbage. I mentioned golden eye which really disappointed me. It's also pretty telling when all the big multi platform titles just skip the wii. Or if they do go to the wii, they are a terrible looking spinoff.
Yes, I love zelda, mario, metroid and even donkey kong and kerby, but that is not enough to warrant a purchase. I bought a wii at launch and had it for almost two years, but then it got stolen and I just never felt compelled to buy it again because the great titles weren't coming frequently enough to warrant it.
Myworstnightmar I agree that graphics aren't everything, but to a point. They matter enough if they are so painfully bad that they distract the player.
And as far as infamous not looking good? Maybe compared to other ps3 games, but if a game came out for the wii that looked that good, I would pick up a spoon and scrape the words off my screen and eat them;)
I was not trying to start an argument here, obviously I was mistaken on a couple of my points when I generalized a little too much, but I know for a fact that I am not alone in my beliefs.
Last edited by Who_KilledMe on 7/20/2010 11:26:09 PM
I think your over reacting when you say they are so bad they distract from the game. The graphics aren't that bad. New Super Mario Brothers Wii, Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are some of the neatest looking games this gen. They are not HD or PS3 quality but one can still find appreciation in them.
I consider myself a bit of a graphics whore too and i am please with what Nintendo been able to do with the lack of HD support this gen.
Who_KilledMe, you aren't starting an argument, we are all being civil, just discussing our favorite topics.
I was comparing Infamous to other top notch PS3 games release around the same time. Yes, if Infamous was released on the Wii, well, it would look amazing. But it shouldn't be compared to other Wii games, just PS3 games, since it operates on the same hardware.
I am not talking about the mario, zelda, kirby, etcs.. I am talking about their attempts at shooters and things like that.
I have already said that the aforementioned games work great on the wii. In my opinion they are the only reason to own a wii. And maybe, if I find myself with $200 extra cash one day, I might repurchase the wii.
I saw somewhere in the comments you saying that people should buy a wii for the key franchises and ignore the rest, and that is what my whole point has been, if it wasn't for nintendo's ability to keep these franchises fresh, they would have nothing.
I am not saying these games aren't great, that is why I would be excited if they did come to the ps3, is I would get to play them. Money is tight for most people, me included, and with so much great ps3 games and hardware coming out, it would be hard to fit a wii as well as several games into my budget.
It just really pisses me off that it got stolen in the first place. I already owned it as well as about 30 classic virtual console games. Now it's gone and I am left wondering if it is worth a reinvestment.
This whole graphics rant of mine came from two things, first, seeing the injustice done to the goldeneye remake, and two, seeing that the 3DS has graphics that match the wii.
Who has ever heard of a console makers handheld being just as graphically proficient as their console.
Jawknee, I must agree with your comments. Even though, in my eyes the Wii is a toy, it is not a bad toy. There some very nice platforming games that I would not have minded to play.
I may still get a second hand Wii for a song at a later date… even just to have fun modding it and using it as a real "open" media server… And also purchase Mario and Zelda… they are really great games and well designed.
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
Jawknee – I gotta be honest man….you're killing me with the "your" and "you're" exchanges here, hahaha.
@ Jawknee
Well you are saying exactly what he is saying. You are in love with the franchise and not the console. The Wii has good first party support but the console it utter crap.
And as a salesman I can tell you 90% of the people who buy our Wii's are either mid aged woman for workout or parents for their 5-10 yrs old. There are very FEW real gamers that come in to buy a Wii for the core games.
The console is not utter crap.
Sorry Sven, as you as see it was late. 😉
I agree with many points all of you have made. A good discussion. Unfortunately, much of it is very subjective and is not something as simple as a true or false argumentative.
Obviously, the Wii is not crap. It's certainly underpowered compared to other next gen consoles, however, it has made up for that with it's playability and great representations of it's keynote franchises. Yeah, I know, it's got some gimmicky games, but you can hardly judge a console by it's weakest link.
The fact is, although the hardware isn't as up to date as a core gamer might like, it has managed to deliver some very desirable productions. I, for one, believe that some PS3 and 360 devs should pay close attention to many wii dev's commitment to playability and it's franchise game's roots.
The problem is Nintendo really is stuck. They have sold many consoles no doubt, but mostly to non-gamers or die hard gamers who realized the gimmick to late lol. Yes they could totally make a new system that has hd graphics, updated controls and Zelda in hd…. but would it work?
The thing is they have two options. (1)make a system with hd graphics and all of the other features currently on ps3 and 360 with better controls. (2)Make a system with a new innovation.
If they go with the first one, they wont sell many. Why? The die hard gamers would have already went to playstation or microsoft (which by that time have superior controls and graphics) and the non-gamers wouldn't pay for such a device, just like they wouldn't for a ps3 or 360. They already have their casual game system for the kids. If they go with the second one well…. what other innovations are there?? All you have is graphic wise and control wise. I don't see them making everything 3D and I also don't see them making virtual reality systems, which is really the only next step. So really they are screwed.
@ Underdog
No the Wii really is crap on the hardware level. The motion controllers aren't even precise enough.
But I did say that their first party support was very good. Even though the console has near to no potential compared to the competition their firts party devs managed to counter it with great gameplay. Although I am not saying sony's first party devs weren't able to do the same but with a console that has much more potential giving much more impressive results.
I don't know how many times a day I get people coming to FutureShop asking me where the Wii hdmi cables are because their image quality is really ugly in their opinion… Then I got to answer: I'm sorry the Wii doesn't support anything over 480p so you'd be better off plugging it on your old tv rather than your HD if you want sharper image. XD Then when I feel evil I talk to them about PS Move, Modnation racer and Little big planet ( The Wii equivalents but in HD and with better gameplay in my opinion ) And some people who just bought the Wii and are still in their first month actually refund it to buy a ps3 in some cases if I do a good enough job lol.
The Wii on the hardware level has got NOTHING and is one generation old. It really is just a GC with better controllers. And it shows especially now that HD is really taking over the market. But I will never deny that I had great fun with some of its games even though the graphics were never great.
Interesting. Where is this coming from Ben? This seems like a piece one would write after some sort of epiphany. Kind of came out of the blue. Never thought I'd see the day Mario went to a non-Nintendo console, but I may yet.
Maybe he finally got to play Mario Galaxy 2?
No, I think he wants to play Mario Galaxy 2, and he is trying to figure out how to do it, and is wishful that he could just play it on the PS3. I don't blame him.
It's doable on a Standard TV
Playstation graphics Zelda? yes please…
MGS: Hyrule
Otacon:….. Disarm the new metal gear….
Snake:Oh. My. God. The tenth chicken.
Meh, i prefer how Zelda is designed on Nintendo consoles. Wind Waker is my favorite Zelda game of all time. I really like what they did with Skyward Sword too. The cell shaded look is always good. All they need to do is up the hardware a bit more for next generation so we can see all those beautiful colors in HD.
(I didn't thumb you down…) But Wind Waker looked like a game made for 5 years olds….I thought it was a slap in the face to series loyalists. It went so far away from the older classics. anyway, I didn't like it.
But I still think it's sad that skyward sword looks like a remade ocarina of time…
Last edited by SvenMD on 7/21/2010 9:19:45 AM
Sven, Wind Waker got 96 on Metacritic. 96. Someone must have liked the art direction.
I was quick to judge Wind Waker too Sven but it turned out being one of the best Zeldas ever made. Its a fantastic Zelda and its what started the whole cell shaded look for 3D video games.
Last edited by Jawknee on 7/21/2010 10:39:39 AM
I've wondered about this same thing and since Nintendo keeps denying a Wii 2 or even a Wii HD is on the way and it is unlikely they will try to enter the hardcore market again I see this as a definite possibility.
There might be nowhere for Nintendo to go but down at this point. I would certainly welcome Ninty moving into software if only because I really miss the Zelda series and a couple games isn't enough for me to blow a bunch of money on a Wii.
Nintendo once said they'd rather go out of business than to go mutliplat
This will never happen
They might sing a different song if they use their Wii money to develop a new console and it's a turd.
Although Nintendo most likely won't go multiplatform, based on their current massive success, that hasn't stopped them from going to multiplatform 3rd party developers for their 1st party franchises. The new Metroid is being developed by a personal favorite of mine: Tecmo's Team Ninja.
And here I was hoping to read what you thought of SMG2. Or have you not taken your Wii out of the box yet?
Any plans on playing Sin and Punishment?
I hope you are right, Ben. After being disappointed by the Wii, I'm not sure I will purchase the next Nintendo console (which would be a very hard decision. I am a loyalist at heart and have had every Nintendo console to date). The only thing that could possibly get me to buy Nintendo's next console (if they were to make one) would be the next Zelda, Mario, and Metroid games. However, I would hate to buy a console for three games, such a waste of money.
Recently I was talking with a friend of mine and the topic of Zelda on the PS3 came up. Needless to say, our imaginations ran wild with possibilities. I would love to see it happen.
I think everyone does! Nothing wrong with dreaming, and as long as you're doing that, why not go big?
I dont see this happening, but if you were right that'd be great. I think nintendo will come out w/another console that will surprise people though… thats what they strive for.. and although Wii is in the decline in sales, and i havent touched my wii.. for ages, coz i cant stand the SD graphics. U cant deny, even with the decline, they are still outselling the xbox and the ps3 for the first 1/2 of the year.
If the next Nintendo system doesn't have minimum 720p resolution with HD textures, trophies and a flawless online experience then I'm certainly not going to bother with it.
Its odd because i find that Wii games (the few great wii games) are actually better because of the low-resolution output.
I should probably explain that.
Look at a game like Kirby's Epic Yarn. Nobody would make a full game like that on ps3 or 360. It would be a huge waste of processing power. But since the wii cant produce HDR lighting, hi-res textures, and realistic animations the developers are stuck making games visually appealing through other means. Kirby's Yarn has everything in the world made of buttons, yarn, and fabric. All of which act like buttons, yarn, and fabric. It doesnt need fancy effects to look and play beautifully. It forced the Kirby team to look at it a new way.
Mario Galaxy doesnt look much better than Sunshine, but the way the planets interact is just a joy to play with, and i doubt that kind of genius would have shone through if they spent more of their time creating an HD engine and less time polishing the gameplay mechanics.
Thats why i love vintage games so much. There were so many weird and fun ideas in the Genesis/SNES era compared to today. Sure we get stuff like LBP, which is by all means a fantastic game, but thats one game compared to dozens in past generations where substance had to matter more than technical achievement.
I won't be picking up the next Nintendo, or Xbox, Because the PlayStation has what they have, but does it better and then has more. I'll be staying with PlayStaion for a very long time.
I'll pick up it up regardless. Their first party franchises are just too good to pass on.
Stangman, I play the PS3 5 times as much as I play my Wii, but if a WiiHD comes out, and a new Mario/Zelda/DonkeyKong game comes out for it, it would be rather difficult for me to ignore it.
For that matter, I will keep an open mind to the next M$ system that comes out. I don't have the 360, but I am open to having one.
MyWorst – Are you really still into Donkey Kong? I'm just asking because I had all the DK adventures on the SNES, but now I'm done. The new one that was highlighted at E3 looked like a remake of the old games….what's new and interesting there?
I just don't see the need in the purchase.
Sven, while I certainly wouldn't put it on par with Mario and Zelda, it is a staple franchise, and at this point, I almost take it for granted that it will be an extremely polished game, and very fun to play. Will it be a "Highlander coined" D1P for me? No, but I will definately play it at some point. PS3 has me so damn busy. With the family, I have a very finite amount of gaming time. However, DK is a perfect example of a game that I can play with my kids too. Red Dead for night time, DK for the daytime…=)
excellent explanation! I can see how you might have fun with it, yet still bill it as "for the kids"
@ NoSmokingBandit – Your first paragraph about the new Kirby game makes sense, but more than anything, I think it points out the flaws inherent to the PS3 and 360. As if devs would be embarrassed to make a game like Kirby for the PS3 or something because the processing power wouldn't get used.
And that's a damn shame. Yet, I look at the PSN and see all kinds of little quirky games. Still, there's no massive sales numbers there so the point is well taken. Could a dev make a game like SMG2 on the PS3 and have successful sales numbers?
@NonSmokingBandit: Let's not forget your avatar's sake. Insomniac has done a number of simple, but very well designed games this generation, and in HD. I loved A Crack in Time.