So what do we have without controllers? We get Kinect, but that's only the tip of the iceberg as far as Ubisoft boss Jade Raymond is concerned.

In a recent OXM UK interview , Raymond discussed the future of the industry and maintained that traditional controllers are a "barrier," one we'll have to bypass if we want full and unimpeded immersion.

"I was a big Trekkie when I was a kid and I still have this dream that, ultimately, we're going to end up creating the Holodeck – you know, totally immersive experiences. I still think one of the huge barriers is the controller, and even people who played games when it used to be just one big red button and a D-pad can't play games now.

You have to master face buttons, triggers and they all do different things," she went on. "So obviously we're never going to get to that really mass-market place where we're touching a really broad audience with our messages with controllers, so Kinect and other more natural ways to interact with games are incredibly important. I think we can go further."

But here's the big question: What will gaming become without the controller? Are they even still "video games?" Or is that simply the definition of virtual reality, depending on how far the technology goes? And just how precise can the movements of our body be when compared to the ultra-precision of a button press? Furthermore, would this advancement leave most gamers behind and usher in a new age of participants?

I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I didn't have the controller in my hands. But that's just me.

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cLoudou
cLoudou
9 years ago

Um no…

NiteKrawler
NiteKrawler
9 years ago

Big no.

Nas Is Like
Nas Is Like
9 years ago

smh, she must be high.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

If so I want some of what she's smokin'

Vitron
Vitron
9 years ago

You wouldn't want one 🙂

ZettaiSeigi
ZettaiSeigi
9 years ago

Sorry, but I'd always prefer using a controller over moving around to play a video game. Some games are better played with motion controls but not all of them are. I've also had a very good sense of immersion playing a video game using a standard controller.

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

"one we'll have to bypass if we want full and unimpeded immersion."

That is the crux of the entire argument. Strictly speaking, I agree. But video games do not have to be VR to be enjoyed.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Star Trek is lame.

Nas Is Like
Nas Is Like
9 years ago

I was waiting for a comment like this.

Thumbs up.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

No way man, I can't wait for the new Trek movie.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Okay, okay, I'll grant that the J.J. Abrams movie was mildly entertaining. The rest of it….not so much. XD

ProfPlayStation
ProfPlayStation
9 years ago

New Trek blows. Abrams destroys everything he touches.

Old Trek forever.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

New Trek, Old Trek….LOL!

Vitron
Vitron
9 years ago

The new Trek was great, if not better than average.:)

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Star Trek is not lame, but Jade Raymond is higher than a kite if she thinks that we're all gonna have holodeck like experiences in our homes instead of a more traditional controller led experience.

Regarding New Trek vs Old Trek, I agree with the Prof. New Trek sucks more than the cold hard vacuum of interstellar space.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 7/25/2012 11:38:25 PM

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Old trek is teh eternal win for SURE! The new movie was… Well, it was as ok as it could get with those kids I guess.

But I got a complete collection of Star Trek TOS on Blu-ray, and the restoration work is just jawdropping. Eyepoppingly good.

Spock + Kirk == The duo of *any* millennium. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 7/26/2012 2:16:09 AM

CrusaderForever
CrusaderForever
9 years ago

You like the Bluray of STTOS then you should take a look at STTNG in Bluray, very impressive as well. The first episode Encounter at Farpoint is a really good example. They made the jelly fish type alien look awesome in the Bluray.

STTOS on Bluray, what did they do to it to make it look great? Did they add to it or is it just higher res?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

STTOS on BluRay. They went back to the original film where they could, cleaned up everything, replaced all the effects shots with new HD CGI versions, upgraded the sound, and generally speaking gave it a good old fashioned HD polish. Paramount went back and did it season by season and they were 'premiered' on broadcast TV in HD before release on BluRay.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 7/26/2012 10:07:22 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Yup.
There is a "making of" documentary included with the blu-rays that shows you the process they went through, and it was formidable. They could go as far as restoring single frames to remove scratch and dust, enhance colour balance and so forth.

The result is so good that during some scenes it's almost too much: You can see the make-up and set pieces where earlier the blurriness masked it some.

xenris
xenris
9 years ago

I think I remember you saying to me Jawknee one time that I wasn't furthering the discussion(even though I was) and that I might be starting a fight on the internet over something so small, interesting considering the comment you laid down. It is pretty much bait for an argument and you have indeed just argued that star trek sucks and haven't furthered the conversation on controllers getting in the way. Quite the hypocrite it would seem 😉

Just to add to both conversations, as to not disappoint you, I think star trek is pretty decent although I didn't grow up watching it I watch a bit with my dad and it was pretty enjoyable, both the new and old. I liked the jj movie as it was pretty good sci fi even if you took out the star trek name.

As for controllers this girl is high if she thinks controllers are getting in the way. Using our hands is one of the first reflexes we develop, once people spend time with a controller it becomes second nature. Even my dad is getting better and he was one of those guys who played mario and couldn't hold the run button and jump at the same time -_-.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

You will have my controller when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

Oyashiro
Oyashiro
9 years ago

Once you have something that works better than a physical controller… sure.

Kinect barley works with games designed for it.

Warrior Poet
Warrior Poet
9 years ago

Motion sensing has never been "more natural." Nothing about video games has ever been natural. An interface device that's inherently distracting isn't going to help our immersion or lower the level of abstraction means there are less possibilities. Motion controls can be used well, but I don't think traditional controllers have been getting in the way. What is getting in the way is the lack of ideas in most modern games!

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
9 years ago

Agreed! +1

Rogueagent01
Rogueagent01
9 years ago

Would I like to have a Holodeck? Hell yeah, sign me up! However looking at the complaints about the price point of the PS3 at launch I bet only a select few around the world would be willing to shell out the money it would take to put a holodeck in their house. Plus we aren't even remotely close to that level of tech yet, and if anyone tries to use the Kinect as an example I will simply laugh at you, as you surely do not know what the holodeck was/is.

Plus like Ben said we are now talking VR not VG, so sorry she is wrong in that sense alone.

I would like to ask her then if the controller doesn't allow immersion then what about the controls of say a plane? Do I not get to enjoy flight because I have to pay attention to the controls? I really don't see the controller being an issue AT ALL. Another way to think about it is movies. If she was right then books should have died off with the advent of movies, since they give you much better immersion(argueably of course), but no, people are still completely immersed within books.

"I still think one of the huge barriers is the controller, and even people who played games when it used to be just one big red button and a D-pad can't play games now."

Can someone explain to me what this line means? Seriously is she actually saying something along the lines of people that played games back in the day can't play them now? Because I know of a couple hundred people in my life that would like to have a talk with her if that is what she meant.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
9 years ago

I've played those games a lot when I was a kid, and I can play modern games easily. : D Even though I'm still young though. (24) But I know others who played games that far back and can still play modern games. People can adapt, and some can't I guess.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
9 years ago

"Call me Jade'd, but I still wanna a Holodeck NOW"….along with Ms Raymond"

(wishful thinking on my part for either)

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
9 years ago

Get her programmed into the Holodeck, she could be an assistant. :p But yeah, I know what you mean.

Vitron
Vitron
9 years ago

I bet this girl can't play. Shes venting out her frustrations on controllers.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Whether she can "play" or not is almost irrelevant in my eyes.

She's proven herself quite a few times over in this industry. She's partly responsible for one of the best and most popular new franchises of the current generation (Assassin's Creed), even if she did oversee the total ruining of Splinter Cell: Conviction (at least, I think she did).

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

A holodeck would be awesome, but that technology won't be around for a long time, if ever, and when it first arrives it won't work for the video game market due to the fact that it would be extremely expensive.

My bet would be that the first holodeck would be owned and operated by the military.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
9 years ago

I bet that will happen as well. I'm sure the Military would be the first purchaser of a Holodeck.

Riku994
Riku994
9 years ago

Do want controllers.

BigT_1980
BigT_1980
9 years ago

I guess she wants too have more games likes, `We Dare.` That looked like an interesting party game. Should have came out in the US.

bigrailer19
bigrailer19
9 years ago

So ussually as most big names in the industry she has a lot of good input. This time – again as with many other times – I wonder why this person is even in the industry. Crazy! I mean do people seriously not realize how big of a failure kinect is? Sure sales might be ok but it's terrible. Se with Motion controls in general. I'll admit I had fun with wii for awhile, but it's inaccuracy at times left me frustrated and disconnected at times. Move although far more accurate and enjoyable than the wii's controls, also is not a hot commodity, regardless how good HR was with the move controls.

People that make statements like these drive me crazy. Its like they only see good ideas not the actual outcome. Before you go and create or develop the holodek think about the outcome first. Might be cool to see that on store shelves but can you make it work and get the same feelings and outcomes with a game like HR or Uncharted? I just don't see it, being a replacement for controllers.


Last edited by bigrailer19 on 7/26/2012 1:04:24 AM

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
9 years ago

Leave fitness, dancing and kids games to the motion controls.

As for racers, give me a steering wheel, not a pretend air steering wheel like Forza 4.

Platformers, controller required.

Shooters, controller or precision light gun (Move and Wii remote also acceptable)

RPG's, controller and microphone for voice recognition.

Fighters, controller.

Adventure games, controller or mouse.

Action adventure games, controller.

Pretty much every genre of games except those based around human movement like dancing or exercise requires a controller for the most precise and immersive control. Sometimes our thumbs are more precise and react faster than our entire bodies.

Finally, the biggest problem with motion controls… differentiation among users.

People and their movement move very differently, so to ask the player to move in a specific way to control a character and their actions can be a very big and possibly painful task for some gamers. Controllers have worked for so long, and since the days of the Dual Shock on the PS1, and the refinement of shooters with the 360 controller's triggers, games are designed around that controller setup. It is the most common controller type now, it has enough buttons and triggers for the core gamers, but the D-pad and face buttons are still prominent for casual gamers who prefer something more simple.

Why mess with a winning formula?

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

The industry need some visionaries who help push things forward. Even though a holo-deck is merely a conceptual dream at this stage there's nothing wrong in using it as an illustration of "the ultimate goal", the ultimate "natural controller" is after all ourselves? To turn our head instead of wiggling our left thumb to look in a different direction surely comes more natural to most. And if we had something that actually *worked* surely it would be awesome?

And then the rest of us can sit here and be rational and grumpy and say "that'll never work you fool, we just want things the way they are".
I just really hope she don't listen to all the besserwissers who right now are lining up to tell her she's wrong and an idiot.

I like visionaries. I really do. We need'em.


Last edited by Beamboom on 7/26/2012 2:41:14 AM

Ludakriss
Ludakriss
9 years ago

That was a rather, mellow, nice outlook, BeamBoom.

I always like to read what ya got to say. It's kinda…interesting. Yeah.

Ludicrous_Liam
Ludicrous_Liam
9 years ago

Yeah I agree…Ludakriss…Ludakriss…Ludicrous…

HEY WAIT A MINUTE!

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Head tracking is pointless so long as the display is fixed in space, you turn your head to look at an opponent, the display needs to move with you or it's pointless. But, even if we suppose that you now have either a head mounted display, or a 360 degree display apparatus, there is a question that begs to be answered.

How do you move in that VR environment?

If you are implementing full body motion capture and control along with head tracking, does that mean you need room to literally run around, jump, dive, roll, etc? If so, it must be safe enough for you to fall and so forth during play. Who has room in their living rooms to even meet the supposed space requirements of Kinect or Move? Who on earth has the space for everything required for full motion control?

But if you go with something other than full body motion, you *need* a controller. If you are going to hold a controller to handle certain aspects of control, why would you force gamers to use motions instead of fingertip controls such as those things that people in the future think are pretty important. You know, buttons…. But then Jade would have some kind of button-less controller, forcing specific gamer movements to represent certain controls. Make a gun shape with your hand and go "Pew Pew Pew"? What is this, third grade?

It's ridiculous to suggest that operating a button is too difficult. Forcing users to use particular actions instead of using buttons is more or less the same as forcing Move of Kinect on gamers. You know how popular that would be.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Noone is saying that we should all start building holodecks in our homes, Highlander. That is to misunderstand her statement completely.

What she is saying is essentially that she think there is a better way. And I can relate to that.
To remember to press circle, double press square and then cross to do a special move, plus holding R2 and press square button to do the second move, eventually with a cross at the end for the finish, with variations depending on if you alter between R1 and L1, all while pushing forward on the right stick…
Man, say what you want but that shit is *not* intuitive. Every UX designer throughout history are turning in their grave by the very thought of it.

There are lots of features in many games I just end up never using, not cause I don't want to or don't see the usage but because it simply becomes too friggin' much.

Do you think these limitations is a hindrance for the games designers too? I don't see how it *can't* be…

But how to solve it!? I have no suggestions.
That's why I am saying that I'm glad there are visionaries who can see opportunities where the rest of us say "nay it can't be done", and instead say, "hmmm… There gotta be a better way".


Last edited by Beamboom on 7/26/2012 1:54:44 PM

Ludakriss
Ludakriss
9 years ago

Personally. Sure. Why not. The whole understanding of calling a controller a "barrier" however, nah. Only a barrier to people, who consider it so.

Rest of the gamers don't exactly scream in demand "please, oh please. Give us some new interface".

There's a reason for that. They got used to something, for they have tried something.

She said something along the lines of "mass market's finding it hard to use" or something. Yeah, of course. Because they can't be bothered.

So now, all of a sudden we need to appeal to people who don't even want to try it because, oh no! Their thumbs will break if it requires eye to hand co-ordination!

C'mon people. If journalism now, saying "games are getting so easy". Think of what kind of games this interface will bring. Assuming it is going to be targeted not out of "barrier" removal but out of desperation to get some of the "lazier" gamer who couldn't or WOULDN'T try getting used to the button?

___________
___________
9 years ago

when you can put me in a virtual reality situation where your body movements are 100% accurate and perfectly registered in game every time, THEN you can have my controller!
till then you keep your grubby mitts off it!

speaking of AR i read a interview with john carmack a few weeks ago about his new AR glasses it was really interesting!
apparently hes finally managed to improve on the resolution and response time of current models.
and even better it has head tracking and you cant see the edges of the screen, so it is totally 100% immersive!
SWEET!!!!!!!!!
though he says he seriously doubts it will ever be released for mass consumption, so unless someone picks it up off him will never see it.
🙁
its such a shame theres so few companies out there really pushing the tech!
$ony did a decent job with the HMZ-T1, now someone else needs to pick off where they left and improve on it!

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Yes, because as we all know John Carmack is an uber-genius of epic proportions who can do no wrong and is smarter than the entire R&D facility at google working on the same thing…

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Actually, those Carmack googles is how I *thought* the Sony 3D googles would be. I thought they too would have movement sensors in them, and with an image that covered your entire vision field.

I don't see why it can't be done, eventually. It'll be great!


Last edited by Beamboom on 7/26/2012 2:22:51 PM

___________
___________
9 years ago

dude, what do you have against john?
hes one of THE only guys pushing this technology forward, so i gotta take my hat off to him!

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

What I have against John Carmack is not so much John Carmack as it is the godlike status he seems to have among a certain group of gamers who believe that he con do no wrong and can reshape the earth if he wants to. He's a smart guy to be sure, but just like I get fed up when some local Doctor running for political office claims to have revolutionized the medical world with his ground breaking patents (no one has ever heard of this guy, or his patents, and the only revolution involved was the turning of an hourglass while he electronically submitted a patent application that should *never* have been granted); I get fed up when people start giving Carmack the kind of deference reserved for a real pioneer in technology.

JackC8
JackC8
9 years ago

I'm so tired of these industry exec's talking as if the future of gaming lies with casuals – people who can't figure out how to use a controller. Kinect is a complete effing joke – I've yet to see a review of a Kinect game where is wasn't just the critic laughing at how awful the thing is. And then you've got Nintendo and their motion controls – scrapped on the Wii U in favor of a far more traditional controller. Albeit a totally non-ergonomic one with a stupid, useless and expensive screen between the analog sticks.

As far as holodecks – yeah. We'll have those in the 24th century, along with warp drive and transporters.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
9 years ago

well considering in the 80s I though the year 2000 would be like the Jetsons where we're all using flying cars now.. and her eit is 2012 and we're no where CLOSE to that….. Im pretty sure by the time we see "controllers" like this guy wants NONE of us will still be alive to se eit

Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

If we do get a holodeck, I'm gonna create a virtual reality program that will let me sit in a bedroom that looks like the one I grew up in and play old school video games with a controller.