People just can't stop talking about it.

After Square Enix revealed a new Final Fantasy VII Remake trailer at the PlayStation Experience, millions of fans started talking.

Then the company announced that the game would be released in episodic format (or something similar), and the world exploded.

I call it little more than a marketing ploy, but some people really like the idea . The point is, love it or hate it, this is the path Square Enix has chosen, so the real question is: How much are you willing to pay for it? One would think the entire production would cost $60 in total, whether you pay for it all up front (like you will with Hitman ) or incrementally, paying a certain amount per part/chapter/episode or whatever. Then there's the question of DLC or microtransactions and given the massive fan base for this game, I'm willing to bet Square Enix is considering both.

Ultimately, what do you see yourself paying for this? Me, I'm not paying a dime, but I'm sure I'm in the minority. Can you see yourself paying well in excess of $60 for the entire re-imagined production? If so, how much more? It'll be interesting to see what people say…and Square Enix should probably pay attention.

Related Game(s): Final Fantasy VII Remake

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Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

How much were each of the .hack games? They were episodic, but full length in each of their own rights.

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

right! i loved that series. the idea of the story was amazing. if only they can make a brand new one for todays consoles

Temjin001
Temjin001
5 years ago

And Shenmue (until SEGA ran out of money and quit after part 2) and Xenosaga.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 12/7/2015 10:34:35 PM

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
5 years ago

Uh…all of those games were originally designed to be broken up into multiple installments. FFVII never was, of course.

Temjin001
Temjin001
5 years ago

Not all of them Ben. Shenmue parts 1 and 2 were developed as one game. SEGA eventually made the call to split this work into two parts. I remember seeing footage for Shenmue 2 before Shenmue 1 released.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
5 years ago

Except nobody felt ripped off at the end of the first Shenmue, or felt it was an incomplete experience. There was a central story that wasn't broken apart into pieces. The sequel continued the story, of course, but it was done more in an original/sequel way as opposed to the way they do episodic now.

Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

The dot hack games always left you with cliffhangers…

And who's to say they can't do that with FFVII? You're making a lot of assumptions on basically no info. That's my biggest beef with your outlook on the game. I know you took psychology, Ben. When you enter with a negative bias before enough information is available to even process, you are much more likely to be disappointed even when you otherwise may not have been.

My point is… please try to stave off the negative assumptions (and assumptions are what they are) until you know the full story. Advocate for what you want, absolutely!! (We've seen developers bend to the will of the gamer before, ie. Mass Effect) But it seems premature to write it off as a bad game. Am I expecting it to be amazing? Not necessarily. I don't know what to expect yet. Am I excited to find out? Absolutely. Do I have concerns arising from the recent news? Sure I do! But I definitely can't profess to know the outcome of the game's quality, nor can I profess to know what exactly they even mean by "episodic", other than the fact they've said each one would be a "full game".

Temjin001
Temjin001
5 years ago

Ben both Shenmue and Shenmue 2 ended creating more questions then they answered.
And yes, people did complain about that, especially Shenmue 2's gaping cliffhanger of an ending. But few were disappointed by the value of their offerings.

Though, I will say the episodic nature of taking FFVII and breaking it apart does create a lot of questions and concerns by myself. The nature of any RPG is building your party up overtime, culminating to a fully realized gameplay system by the end of it all. If this story is to break apart into standalone titles, each as a unique experience, I have no idea how they could retain any faithfulness to an RPG's formula of progression.
They're choosing to make risky calls, no doubt, Im just hoping they can deliver. If not it will be an epic fail.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 12/8/2015 3:52:19 PM

Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

I wonder if it'll be like dotHack in that regard. You could start with any episode and it would start you off at a reasonable level and skillset/item collection. OR you could import a save file and continue on normally.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
5 years ago

Temjin: Lots of games end in cliffhangers and leave questions unanswered. That's what sequels are for. Certainly doesn't qualify either Shenmue entry as "episodic" by the modern definition of that term. I mean, it's not even close, neither from a development nor a marketing standpoint.

Underdog: My assumptions are based on my knowledge of the industry and Square Enix's history. You apparently see fit to ignore all that and hope against hope for the sake of optimism. I'm at least using facts I have – and everyone has – at their disposal.

The bottom line is that there's a reason why something like The Witcher 3 or any other epic RPG would never in a million years be episodic. Such games are simply not designed for that. FFVII was DEFINITELY never designed for that. No matter how you slice it, no matter how optimistic you choose to be, there's no getting around this massive problem. Why do you think ignoring this obvious issue makes the situation any better?


Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 12/8/2015 9:06:57 PM

Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

But they are assumptions, nonetheless, which was my exact point. And I freely admitted that I choose to be optimistic despite the concerns I absolutely have. To break down what I said to something a little more elementary with fewer lines for you to have to read between, I am choosing to not be negative about facts that do not concretely exist at this point.

If you read what I wrote more carefully, you would see that factually, I am absolutely correct as are you, assumptions exempted. We merely disagree on philosophy and principle.

And while you have a slight upperhand in having the luxury of working day in and day out in the industry, I would not be so quick to underestimate my ability to see patterns and differentiate between statistical trends and statistical probabilities. I do not think wielding the mighty mace of industry attachment is enough of a power for you to just dismiss my point of view in this particular instance.

Mdash0009
Mdash0009
5 years ago

More than I should be willing to

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

im willing to pay $60 if it includes all episodes. i dunno how i would feel if they charged per episode (but then that depends on how many episodes)

i know where youre coming from ben, but this game….it gives me the feelies unlike anything else, so yeah, i will give in to my consumerism and throw my money at them even if it means to preorder it to get a special something something worthless nothing that prolly changes clouds outfit lol.

TomBradySucks
TomBradySucks
5 years ago

I'm not so sure why people are freaking out about this. I doubt all the episodes will cost more than $60 combined. 4 $15 episodes sounds about right, and of that really bothers you wait until all episodes release and buy a physical copy.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
5 years ago

You don't understand why people (especially fans) would take issue with SE deciding to not give us one full game but multiple segments of a whole story?

How would you have felt if you bought FFVII only to find disc 1 and having to wait months for disc 2 then having to wait months for disc 3?

Oh and you're foolish for thinking the combined price tag for the combined "episodes" will be $60. SE is doing this for $ reasons.

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

sounds to me theyre jealous of destiny 😛

TomBradySucks
TomBradySucks
5 years ago

Kinda being a drama queen here don't you think? Who says you're not getting a full game? You'll get it in episodes or whatever they end up calling it. Wait until they all release of them makes you feel better.

And yes, unless they plan on doing sequels like FF XIII, I don't see how they can justify charging more than $60 for the complete package.

But we're all just speculating here. Don't let your nerd rage keep you up at night 🙂

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
5 years ago

I think we can speculate confidently that they will weasel every extra dollar out of it. If the first episode is 20 hours and AAA content they might want more than $15-$20 for it.


Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 12/7/2015 11:33:30 PM

TomBradySucks
TomBradySucks
5 years ago

We can speculate that. But we literally have no idea what they're charging, and how much content were actually getting. Trying to be a little optimistic here.

The reaction online has been that the sky is falling.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
5 years ago

TomBradySucks,

Kinda being an ignorant person that fails to answer any of the questions I asked you? How exactly is my pointing out the obvious to you in any way me being a drama queen?

Define a "full game". I pointed out a rather simple scenario involving the original release of FFVII to make it crystal clear to you.

I don't want to wait months/years to play a single game that in the past (on inferior hardware, with less $$$, and with less staff) came in a complete package on Day1.

You're honestly trying to rationalize SE justifying charging us $60+ for a FFVII remake? They milked $180 out of what is widely regarded the weakest entry in the entire FF series.

The difference being that I'm basing my speculation on facts and company history. You appear to be resting on false hope and idiotic reasoning.

I love your passive aggressive final comment. Typical internet troll.

Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

There is ZERO chance any "segment" will only be $15-$20.

Today it was already said that each "segment" would be full game length. (Whatever that means.)

TomBradySucks
TomBradySucks
5 years ago

You can get as mad as you want regarding the episodic content and how this doesn't bothers some as much as it does you.

I didn't answer your question because this is a remake. The people that are arguing about it online already played the original. If this happened 20 years ago, yea that would be bullshit. But SE has already gone on record saying that this remake will be very different from the original. This could mean that they're making the game bigger than it originally was (hence making it a "series" akin to FFXIII) or they decided to splice the game up into 3-5 parts similar to a TellTale game or the fantastic King's Quest. If it's the latter than the company probably wants some return on this investment sooner rather than later. Depending on the price, I'm personally OK with them splitting it up. We will get to play it sooner rather than later.

And episodic games have become somewhat of the norm. I don't love t, but I usually wait to buy the full package after they all release. There's a reason companies are doing that. They make more money because people are either going to spend less money buying the first episode to "try it out" or they're going to plop down the full $30-60 and buy the complete game/full package. SE seems like they're going after a new demographic of gamers (FFVII is almost 20 years old) with this episodic strategy, while banking on schmucks like me to buy it all at once.

This is of course a moot point if they come out and say they're splitting the game into 3 $60 titles, in which case I won't be buying it. But until they do I'm willing to hold out hope.


Last edited by TomBradySucks on 12/8/2015 9:12:58 AM

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
5 years ago

TomBradySucks: You're making valid points. I think LV's issue – and the issue many have with this – is that it not only feels like a cash grab (because in many ways, I think it is), but it also isn't in the spirit of the original game.

Breaking up FFVII to be sold off in parts just sounds…bad. It sounds disrespectful, if that makes any sense. This is in addition to the obvious problem ALL episodic games have, which is a lack of cohesion because there are always these big gaps in between. Plus, people are simply not big fans of paying a certain amount multiple times (no matter what that amount is).

You have to look at it from that viewpoint as well.

TomBradySucks
TomBradySucks
5 years ago

All very fair points Ben!

I think it'll come down to your original question: how much are you willing to spend on this. $60×3 is not going to fly with myself and a lot of gamers.

The concern about time inbetween episodes also makes a lot of sense. TellTales Game of Thrones took them a full YEAR, which sucked.

I hope SE addresses these comcerns soon

Temjin001
Temjin001
5 years ago

I'm expecting several full length games as the director has suggested. So $60 times 3 or something.

Edit: this is of course contingent on the first game being good. If we really are being lied to and this thing is a marketing ploy and crap then I won't pay more than once.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 12/7/2015 10:44:16 PM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
5 years ago

It isn't going to be good. Like a vast majority of SE games this past decade it will have top-notch production value that crumbles under the weight of it's mediocre gameplay and direction. It's going to get a high 8 on IGN and Gamespt, but will be in the 5s for fan reviews.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
5 years ago

Did they manage to get the old team back together as they said they'd need to? That'd be how it turns out good in a sea of bad.

If only Hironobu Sakaguchi could be prez again.

Temjin001
Temjin001
5 years ago

Hey, I'd be happy if it scored 8's.

Temjin001
Temjin001
5 years ago

I'm curious what the director meant btw stating that each segment in the series would be its own "unique experience"
One could only wonder. …
FFVII episode 2: The untold stories of Cloud and his motorbike races. (Racing game)
FFVII episode 3: Call of Barret. (Play FFVII as Barret in FPS style)
FFVII episode 4: Golden Saucer (a bunch of fun mini games)

The possibilities…. Endless

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
5 years ago

I'm thinking the overall tone. When EA had Dante's Inferno turned into a movie they got 3 great animators to take each part and make it their own even though it's the same story. New art direction, mood, a different focus on how dialogue unfolds.

Another example: Mission Impossible 1,2,3. All very different on purpose due to different directors.

Jawknee
Jawknee
5 years ago

$60.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
5 years ago

Full Price. I know the game will be a huge disappointment but I have to follow through on a promise I made myself years ago. It's sad that something I never thought would ever happen ended up happening but (so far) failing to come close to my expectations.

ethird1
ethird1
5 years ago

You are not alone, Mr Dutka. You not alone. For me? Not one single penny.

FAREEZ
FAREEZ
5 years ago

100 Gil, i guess…

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

LOL

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
5 years ago

I'll pay what it's worth. If it's worth $200 then I'll pay that. The original changed my life and continues to define parts of my personal philosophies on good, evil, life, death, relationships, mental illness, and being a hero. Any classic, like Moby Dick or Paradise Lost only gain value over time each time you revisit it.

If this take on the quintessential classic of all classics in thoughtful, heartfelt gaming is expensive then I'll pay what it costs to absorb the nostalgia, travel in time a little, see how topics that were near and dear to my angsty teenage heart are handled 20 years later, and whatever else comes up.

People are crazy because this game is a personal possession to the fans. It wasn't a game in the way Uncharted is or Mario was or even like other JRPGs were, it meant something special and different to those who enjoyed it because they saw it through thier lens at that time.

Replaying the old one, which I'm happily doing now with that PS4 version finally out, isn't really enough to use a new lens to experience it through. It settles carefully into nostalgia and I still feel the same way about the material.

Sometimes a book isn't seen as a work of genius until another book is written about it. In this same way, I want to experience it anew to look at the nuanced and complex humanity in that story with new eyes.

If it's trash, on the other hand, I'll still play it but I'll wait for the full version on a big sale.

ethird1
ethird1
5 years ago

You will pay nothing and like it! Sissy boy!

Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

Who the f*** says "sissy boy"?

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
5 years ago

ethird you release worse content than Square Enix.

godsman
godsman
5 years ago

I don't see any reason that FF7 cannot be one game. If gameplay length and disc capacity is not a problem, going episodic can only mean that it's a price issue.

Selling it in episodic can mean we can play FF7 as early as the end of next year, but have to suffer having the rest of the game once every year. I don't see anyone having the patience to wait that long. So it becomes a problem of owning part of a game that has no ending, or a game with no beginning.

Corvo
Corvo
5 years ago

Well I've done some thinking, and I think Square made a good call making it episodic. If on PS1 the game was 3 disks, that means they'll probably release 3 episodes over the course of three years. Each episode releasing after a year of development time. See, this way we aren't waiting 4 years for the full game and instead can play along side of the development and obviously once its all done and said, theres going to be the complete version.

I may be wrong, but that makes a helluvalotta sense.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
5 years ago

I'd be uber pissed though to wait a year before playing again. I'm 34 and I used to drink a lot. I'd forget everything by the time the next one came out and have to play again.

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

nononononono. episodes cannot and should not be released every year. thatll literally kill the game (though others will say its already dead)

Breadlover
Breadlover
5 years ago

$10 – $15 per episode? *shrug*

I hate the fact that no matter what we do, we don't have the capability or financial capacity to put a dent in SE small brains to change how they do games these days….

I hate that I will have to "go with the flow" just to be able to play this beloved franchise.

I hate it. But.. $10 – $15 a piece is all I can probably give.

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

LOL @ your name and avatar. have you heard of a restaurant called specialtys? their focaccia thyme bread is absolutely fantastic.

Breadlover
Breadlover
5 years ago

@shaytoon I have not, but now that I have, I will find it, and I will eat the flour out of all the bread there xD

frostface
frostface
5 years ago

I really have to play the original past the first 30mins of the game so I can see just how life altering this game is for people. I'm just wondering how much of the original is being viewed with rose tinted glasses. And heh, I'm not calling the game rubbish, I'm just adjusting to the really outdated graphics but I do appreciate for the time how ground breaking it must have looked back then. I haven't played even near enough to talk about the story either. But really am I walking into a game that has people making bold statements that it changed their lives? I suppose I should revisit that question once I've stuck my teeth into it more. But fans reactions online for this remake are nuts and I'm wondering if there's even any way at all for SE to get this game right? It seems expectations are really high. If people love everything about the first game so much, why not just play that and chill with the remake.


Last edited by frostface on 12/8/2015 2:02:43 AM

Underdog15
Underdog15
5 years ago

At the time it was mind-blowing for sure. Over 10 million sold, man! I have a number of friends who loved it, and it's the only Final Fantasy they ever touched. (Or turn based rpg for that matter)

I play it every couple of years still for nostalgia, but its age DEFINITELY shows.

Personally, though, I haven't seen anything about the remake make me think they're doing a bad job.

shaytoon
shaytoon
5 years ago

theres no nostalgia to it if you decide to play the game now. its going to look very outdated, but you have to keep in mind those were the best graphics psx was offering.

the cgi cut scenes were THE BEST at the time as well, no other game had achieved such graphics.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
5 years ago

No point in playing it now. It had an impact on people's lives 18 years ago; I doubt you'll be able to see why so long after the fact, and with technology having changed so dramatically.

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