Obviously, to avoid the mindless mobs armed with torches and pitchforks, I have to explain the headline.
First, the source: Bulimia.com has run a feature where they "reverse photoshop" several iconic female video game characters. The idea is to eliminate the original unrealistic version and give women like Lara Croft, Tifa Lockheart, Cortana and Sonya Blade "average American body shapes."
And it's depressing as hell.
Bulimia is an extremely serious disorder and one that can and does lead to death. I will forever support any strides taken to deal with this disease that wrecks lives, and the lives of loved ones. I will not , however, bow to the new legions of "fat shaming" police, who are – as expected – turning a virtuous idea into a dangerous one. The current regime in this country is awfully good at that.
Should we be discriminating against people because of their weight? Of course not. One of my best friends growing up was always teased because of his weight and I'm well aware of the impact that had on him. Should our goal be to see someone for who they are, as opposed to the size clothes they wear? Yup. But forgive me if I have greater respect for those who take care of themselves, who take responsibility for their health and their lives in general.
It's absolutely true that female characters in games have been oversexualized to death. But we've been making great strides in this field, as per my recent article . One should also note that for the Bulimia.com article, the author used the old Lara Croft model, and it's my belief they ignored the revamped and more realistic model on purpose. It is not wrong to give women more realistic contours in a video game; women do tend to have wider hips and smaller chests than what we've seen in our games.
I get all that. But is anyone at all at least a little depressed that "matronly" – the only accurate description of the new photoshopped models – is now "average?" Let me explain something: I want everyone to rummage around in their attics or perhaps the attics of their parents or grandparents. Find old pictures. I've done it and I've pored over many; know what I see? Thin . Almost none of the women I see in those old pictures have slightly bulging stomachs and wide hips. Ever seen a uniform worn by the average man in the Civil War?
We were a lot smaller several hundred years ago. We are, on average, both men and women, several inches taller and yeah, a lot heavier. Both my grandmothers and my mother had waistlines that we're starting to call "impossible" today. If such an article as the one at Bulimia.com had been possible all that time ago, and the premise was still "average American body shapes," how much of those video game images would we really have to change? The bust size, certainly. But not the waistlines or hips. There are some extreme circumstances in gaming where the waistline gets ridiculous but it's not that common anymore.
Not all women have to look like supermodels, and not all women have to be a size 6 or less. But the reality is that at one time in human history, the "average" was a lot thinner than it is now. So don't give me "impossible" and don't give people another excuse to let their health go to hell . And to those suffering with bulimia, I continue to have the greatest sympathy and I offer my sincere hope that they can beat what they're battling. Let's just leave it at that.
Firstly, no one has a right to alter Tifa Lockhart ever, full stop period.
I think folks in this area are barking up the wrong tree. Looking at the video game females and how they appear (in something that is not live action humans but at the end of the day somebody's artistic representation) just isn't the place to find evidence for affecting people with bulimia.
These products, especially the ones with most bombastic females, are products that are almost always played by males. The females who do play wouldn't play if it bothered them. So how many chances does it have to shame them? If a boyfriend is playing an old version of Tomb Raider and the girlfriend thinks he pays more attention to the hot gaming chick than her, that's hardly a patch on how often that girlfriend would see her guy checking out other females in the real world.
Girls ache to be the woman on the magazine cover, nobody ever ached to be Lara Croft, Tifa Lockhart, Ivy Valentine, or Cortana. Yes they "fixed" Cortana. She's a hologram! Why would she be made into an overweight person?
Anyway, I think I made my point in there somewhere.
I don't think overweight Lara can do a acrobatics move or high jump…
Not to sound ignorant, but I personally wouldn't refer to bulimia as a disease. Terrible sure, but you can't be born with bulimia.
It seems more like a bad choice, that turns into a bad habit, that turns into an addiction/ disorder. Behavioral rather than physical.
I've been watching a lot of Rick and Morty lately. Those characters don't have average bodies. They look like toothpicks, yet nobody complains. It is all fiction after all.
Shh, don't talk about other forms of entertainment. Lest this sets a precedent where people can start attempting to "change" those too.
Na video games will remain the easy scapegoat for a while yet most likely.
It used to be rap music that was the cause of all the world's problems.
I would take little issue with the character resizing if it was at all reflective of the lives the characters lived. Also the same can be said for the male character models. How many of the visitors to this site are 220-250 pounds of chiseled and toned muscle? or 180-210 pounds of lean athletic muscle? Very few I should imagine. Yet that is what most playable male characters are like unless they are in their teens.
With all respect Nerull, we don't know the cause of many mental illnesses, it could very well be physical. We do know that there is a genetic component to many mental illnesses and there's a lot of new research being done that suggests people who suffer from a mental illness may actually have physically different brains. Obviously this research is in its infancy and is not yet conclusive, but a mental illness such as Bulimia could very well be a physical disease that is brought on or exacerbated by external factors.
I read the article, I see there is context as to what the article is referring, and yet I still don't get what we're talking about here… I know this sounds a tad cynic (for lack of a better term) on my part. But, why do we need to have "realistic" character models in our video games? What purpose does that serve exactly? The women in question, except for Cortana, take care of their shape for the task they're supposed to do. Why would people think that something that doesn't exist can set an impossible standard? Am I missing something?
I think what's being missed is context. Games are escapism, fantasy. video game characters are often larger than life in both character and appearance. If the game world is grounded in reality then yeh designers and artists should conform to a view that is reflective of such. look i could waffle on for ages so ill just say context. pay attention to the freakin context people.
You are missing the fact that people are stupid and will try anything to rationalize their lack of reasonable standards. 🙂 Even if it means intentionally misinterpreting or ignoring the all-important context that JonnyR mentions. Ben makes an awesome point that the 'average' of today is unhealthily large, and since when has anyone ever excelled at anything when the goal is 'average'.
All about that bass…
No treble…
What in God's Hell is that Rikku one. LMFAO
Not really sure about this one, Ben.
Anecdotal evidence from pics in your closet? You could find plenty of anecdotal evidence from the Victorian renaissance and ancient Greece that would argue strongly against your lack of hips theory. Yet, I digress…
I do not visit this site to debate history or religion or politics, nor hear your views on the topic, yet I feel that is what this site is becoming.
I think you should have another forum or blog for these other topics, and stick to helping everyone on this site to find, purchase, play and discuss the best PS games.
Obesity is defined by international health organizations as *the* biggest health threat for mankind today. Much higher than any issues related to underweight, who in comparison is relatively marginal. That is a fact that goes way beyond anyones anecdotes.
We are getting fatter. You don't need to look at old pictures to get that confirmed – it's publicly confirmed knowledge. Weight stats at schools shows this. Diabetes stats shows this. Any stat related to weight and lifestyle issues clearly confirms it.
Heck, the army here in Norway has had to lower their health test requirements for new recruits, cause too many started to fail them!
You may or may not like to read editorials like this, but when they use game characters like this it becomes relevant and this whole topic *is* often discussed related to gaming charaters today.
Plus, it's important! As any major health threat is.
Last edited by Beamboom on 7/24/2015 2:49:55 AM
If you think the obvious fact that humans are bigger than we were several hundred years ago is "anecdotal," go do the research yourself.
After what they did to Lara in Rise Of Tomb Raider, her being fat is probably the next step. Bastards.
I like the new Lara way better than the old one, unless there was some big change between the 2013 reboot and the latest game. The only trailer I have watched was the one at the Xbox e3 and she was in a huge jacket the whole time so didn't really notice a change.
Last edited by Shauneepeak on 7/24/2015 9:54:11 AM
The worst part of this whole "big is beautiful/love yourself" campaigns are when girls (it's usually girls) who are *clearly* obese to the level where it *will* have a major impact on both life expectency and quality, are hailed as "normal", cheered up as the reference point to how "normal" girls does look today.
its getting to the point where women and men who go out of there way to be in good physical shape are mocked and derided online its crazy!
That pretty much sums it up right there.
Amen.
Do I look fat in this dress? Yes you do, go do cardio. xx
Really good article Ben. It makes me kinda mad when people look at athletes and models and say "thats impossible" "ill never look like that" & "its all down to his/her genes" ill tell you all right now its not. your health and appearance is about 30% your Genes and 70% your lifestyle.
I had to make a change cause my lifestyle was pretty unhealthy, as an artist i spend most of my time infront of a computer. I joined a fitness and nutrition community to get in shape and learn to eat good healthy foods. Its possible for everyone! it makes me really sad that people think they cant do it.
When 70% of Americans are overweight and 40% are obese I think we need to stop using the American average. Maybe use like France, Sweden, Denmark or something?
"When 70% of Americans are overweight and 40% are obese I think we need to stop using the American average."
Exactly.
If I could give that comment 1000 thumbs up I would.
The hell is "overweight"? Fyi, thicker women is the new style. The old European image of what ya'll call "beauty" is declining more and more each day. Just look at any and everything online and on tv! Women like Serena Williams are finally being envied and chased the WORLD over. What has primarily been a black thing has spilled over to all forms of life. Just look how much plastic surgery is being used to gain bigger lips, ass, thighs and everything else!
Now before you call me a race baiter or hipster, just know I'm not talking about obviously over weight women…more so my (and men all of all ethnicities) prefer thicker, close to video game vixen shape women. Imagine that picture of Lara on the right with a bigger ass, thicker thighs, and even bigger tits. Thats women I'm used to seeing daily…and the same women I see lots of other women try to emulate.
Thick is beautiful…ya'll keep dreaming of them small ass, b cup chest skinny girls if ya'll want. I've literally got bigger fish to fry…
I wouldn't use people who get unnecessary plastic surgery as a yardstick for sanity.
What about those people that got 100's of surgeries to look like Ken and Barbie?
Not to mention who would pay to have a bigger ass?
Of course a plastic surgeon won't say no to money, but he could just advise them to do the same thing half of America does, and just eat too much with little exercise.
Doesn't that sound more fun than injecting whatever unnatural chemical just for kicks?
Last edited by Nerull on 7/24/2015 3:47:40 PM
First off, Nerull, I never meant to imply that the IDIOTS who use plastic surgery as a means of beauty to look like ideal people is cool. I'm just saying that times have changed, and all the black women who were overlooked and mocked for their body type are what all races aspire to look like. Men love when with PROPER curves…the bigger the ass and tits, the better. Look at Kim K…that slut bucket is worshipped for her phony figure. Guys drool over her fakeness.
Eating more to get those kinds of results is purely futile. It doesn't work that way, because you naturally develop more "pudge"
The women of pop culture who are naturally thick have a stomach bigger than say, Taylor Swift or Katy Perry, but usually no bigger than Serena. Serena is my purfect woman.
Actually if you are talking OLD Europe up until around the 1500's bigger was better because it showed that the woman was well off enough to have excess and showed that she was healthy enough to birth strong children.
But nowadays overweight=/=Healthy someone can be 15-20 pounds over the suggested weight for their height and be 100% healthy but nowadays that isn't the case. If someone is overweight they are almost certain to be very unhealthy and most likely live an unhealthy lifestyle.
Now if someone wants to say "Big is beautiful" while eating a fully organic diet and avoiding shit like soda and other things loaded with sugar and chemicals all the power to them. But when it is people who eat fast food 3-4 times a week, buy unhealthy chemical ridden freezer food than can be heated up in less than 10 minutes, and drink a liter or more of soda a day the "Big is beautiful" begins sounding a hell of a lot like an excuse.
Also Serena Williams is nowhere near what that Lara picture and the average American woman looks like. She is well toned pure unbridled muscle which she has achieved by years of living and eating healthy and working out relentlessly every day of her life.
So if someone wants to work out at the gym and go outside and play sports to achieve her body type that is great for them but you can't compare Serena Williams to the "Big is beautiful" craze that is a complete insult to everything that brilliant and strong woman has worked for. I wish those women and men using that phrase WOULD look up to someone like Serena Williams because I guarantee most of the people who are using that phrase are not trying to live the Serena Williams lifestyle.
Last edited by Shauneepeak on 7/24/2015 6:06:44 PM
"and all the black women who were overlooked and mocked for their body type are what all races aspire to look like."
Uh, no. Some do, hardly ALL. This is a bizarre blanket statement. And I have yet to see any such body types in the upper echelon of the fashion world. I'm not saying that's the ideal body type, but it obviously shows that not everyone "aspires" to have the body type you're talking about, as women still (unfortunately) emulate those slim models.
Serena Williams is fit and ripped as hell. She certainly doesn't have muffin top. I'm not knocking your premise, I just had to chime in on this fact. Honestly if the digital artist had done a better job of drawing the characters as realistically proportioned women and still made them look good, I doubt this would be an issue. It's the fact that the redesigns look pretty awful that is a sticking point. If they had given Tifa the body of Ronda Rousey I doubt anyone would be complaining.
Serena williams testosterone level is higher than a average mans…
"Not to mention who would pay to have a bigger ass?"
I know you've heard of all the complication of ass shots in the news. GOOGLE IT.
While I do prefer that women aren't underweight, none of your examples are people that I would want to emulate, except maybe Serenia Williams since she's still more fit than most.
Using medical complications as a reference of popularity doesn't mean it's at all a good idea.
Also that's generally not the kind of current events I keep up to date on.
Last edited by Nerull on 7/24/2015 5:59:57 PM
It goes both ways. Just because there are people who get plastic surgery to have a bigger ass and hips, it's HARDLY the majority. Most women still want smaller butts and hips; just ask any plastic surgeon.
That being said, it's true that curvaceous is far more popular than slim and trim these days, but it's a matter of health for me. If you've got curves and you look healthy and vigorous, fine. Unfortunately, because the traits you speak of are commonly found on overweight women (fat deposits tend to first build around the hips, ass and in the breasts), I can't help but view overly curvaceous females as unhealthy.
We are naturally drawn to healthy individuals, as our genes tell us to seek out a partner that would make for a worthy parent. The idea that slimmer is more attractive to most has nothing to do with personal preference; it's merely natural. Of course, nothing wrong if you fancy somewhat larger women. And the overly thin is equally uneappealing to me and many others, because again, it's not healthy; it appears wasted and dry.
A healthy balance is something we're just not capable of striking anymore.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 7/24/2015 6:54:37 PM
I just mean that, unless you need reconstructive surgery from injury or actual deformities, pretty much all cosmetic surgery is unnecessary.
Sure beautiful people get more attention, but for most people with decent self esteem going under the knife to toy with things doesn't seem worth it.
Do we really need more people with fake boobs and butts, Michael Jackson noses, and the like?
Especially those collagen-filled lips, those are disgusting.
Last edited by Nerull on 7/24/2015 7:38:09 PM
"Do we really need more people with fake boobs and butts, Michael Jackson noses, and the like?"
Certainly not.
well, she practically looks like almost every woman in america. so whats the problem?
and i live in la where 90% of these chicks are "health conscious"
Forgetting video games for a minute, this is an example of a larger problem affecting society, which is the "healthy at any weight" mentality that is being promoted all over the place now. I'm sorry but you cannot be healthy at any weight, that is a fact. Now I'm certainly not saying those who are overweight should be shamed or made fun of in any way and I'm all for people being confident and comfortable with who they are and how they look. However, this "healthy at any weight" mentality should not be encouraged. What should be encouraged and promoted by websites like the one in the article is the positives of being healthy. I know losing weight is difficult, at times it can seem damn near impossible, but the way you feel when your body is healthy is worth it.
+1000
On a positive note my mom lost almost 60 pounds in 2 months purely due to hard physical labor at her new job! So woohoo!
Good for her! In the last year or so I lost about 40-50 pounds just by eating a little healthier and walking as much as possible throughout the day. The hardest part is believing you can actually do it, but once you get going and start to notice that you actually are doing it it gets easier and easier. And finally feeling healthy is, worth every step and every slightly less tasty meal.
Eat less, eat better, move more. If you expend more calories than you take in, you will lose weight.
It's not magic and it's the same for everyone (yes, even you people who claim to have "glandular problems").
Yup, that's basically it. The how is simple, but actually doing it can be incredibly difficult for a lot of people psychologically. Which is why I really think people need to stop focusing on the negatives of being overweight and start focusing on the positives of being healthy. Seriously, all the articles on being overweight are either about accepting it or trying to scare people into losing weight (usually well intentioned but imo counterproductive).
Edit: And as for the glandular issues, I think I read that less than 2% of obese people can claim glandular issues and even then that just means it's more difficult to lose weight, but certainly not impossible.
Last edited by matt99 on 7/25/2015 2:07:06 PM
Yeah, it's definitely less than 2% and even then, hardly impossible.
It really is almost entirely psychological. It has always been difficult to get people started, because they complain about soreness. It's hard to convince them that they're only sore because their body isn't used to it, that once it becomes accustomed, they will never be sore again. It's doubly difficult in today's world because so many people's diets are just SO horribly awful.
One last thing: Energy begets energy. People have it completely backwards if they think sitting or lying down will make them feel more energetic. It will make them feel MORE TIRED. It's why, in our sedentary society, everyone complains about a lack of energy. 5-hour energy? What for? Want all the energy you could possibly need?
MOVE.
I personally care very little for things being "sexy" in the games I play. It adds little value to my gaming experience and it is nothing more than distracting at best. I think realistic body types that reflect the characters' lifestyles and skill sets would be really cool and add to immersion. Although, it could be argued that that's not necessarily what people who are demanding that women's bodies be portrayed differently in video games want.
so first place that the body types thing is getting rediculous i mean there shouldn't be any extremes but then it doesn't need to be realistic on a game by game basis cos like someone mentioned lara croft couldn't be of a certain type other wise you would think how is she doing all the jumping around if she was a bit big thats just being real here.
but then theres the bulimia thing which is terrible i don't like and most people don't it destroys people lives and these things are really really bad and they need to be addressed we don't need anymore deaths from this terrible disease.
happy gaming
even though they used the older 90's version of Lara Croft she would probably looks closer to the original version the image instead of the fat version if she was doing so many physically demanding activities. not saying she woudl have to have a super model body buy she probably wouldn't be over weight after running, jumping, climbing, doing flips and what not like in the tomb raider games
Video games AREN'T REAL, so why should ANY character in them be 'realistic'? THEY ARE NOT REAL, so why should the be made to be 'realistic'. And Ben is correct, just 50 years ago small waists and hips WAS the norm, it's pretty bad that the US population has let itself get so… out of shape. Oh, and in some regions of the world the general population did have some thick hips, but not all regions.