When it was confirmed that Sony would shift from Cell to x86 it caused quite the stir amongst the Playstation fans. Some were excited, others frustrated.

But what will it actually mean for you as a gamer?

This is not an article where the technical differences of the architectures will be discussed. That's for the engineers to argue about. Instead we break it down into the topics that matters most for us gamers, starting with:

The exclusives

Ah, the exclusives. The pride of any platform.Many believe that their excellence on PS3 were all due to the hardware, and therefore worry that the exclusives will no longer shine like they used to do.

I am here to tell you: Thou shalt not fear.

It is the incredible skill and experience of the developers, art directors, managers and designers of Sony's first party studios that deserves the praise. It's the software that shines, and this will be demonstrated in full effect come next gen. Our platform will still house the shiniest exclusives.

The multiplats

Of this there are no doubt: The multiplats will run better now.

And seeing how an overwhelming majority of the major releases today falls into this category this is obviously a big deal, something to really look forward to. This time around it will not just be a question of if they "run as good as on the competitor" as we often hoped for during the PS3 years, but rather, "will it run better ?!"

The indie scene

This is an interesting one.

The indie scene is incredibly important, not only for the games they produce but because it is amongst the indie devs of today we find the developers of tomorrows major AAA releases.

And in a world where the major games are increasingly expensive to make, the room for releases from independent developers also increase. It is reasonable to expect great things coming from this scene, and they all primarily work on tools built for development for the x86 atchitecture. It's what they know. It's where they got their experience. The change to x86 can be seen as one giant open invitation to the entire indie scene.

The security

Do the Playstation 4 risk being less secure or easier to hack due to the shift to the x86?

No. The security of a system is not found on the architectural level, but in the system that runs on it. In regards to PSN the security of this network is not related to the architecture of the consoles, so it's unchanged.

The 'hidden powers'

This is as close to a "PS3 meme" as we can get. The fabled "hidden powers". Will there be none of that now that Sony no longer "designed their console to be hard to develop for"?

Let me right away say that I personally don't see a problem in enjoying the capacities of my new console as soon as possible. I only see that as a positive. The sooner the developers gets to fully master a platform, the sooner they can start being real creative. And that's the stage I want to get at asap.

That said, all computers today are complex beasts, and incredibly capable. There's always plenty of ways to get something done, and any computer today can be said to hold "hidden powers" for the developers to find. Cause really, "hidden powers" only mean "the potential to achieve more through better code". And that is nearly always there.

But will it take six years to get to a proper level? No. Thankfully not.

The spirit

What about the "soul of the Playstation", then? Will that change now with the architectural change?

Many has expressed such concerns, but the architecture has very little to do with how you perceive the identity of a platform.

Let me ask you this:

What are the differences between Apple Macs and Windows PCs?

The Apple computers with their Os X are running smoother, looking better, is a more advanced and modern computer, right?

Well, they are both running on the exact same architecture. Yup. You can install Windows or Linux on a modern Mac.
Up until 2005 Apple based their machines on their own PowerPC architecture. Then, in said year, they changed to x86. A story very similar to what Sony has done now. Apple did not lose any of their identity during the transition.

Neither will the Playstation.

Playstation 4 will still be running Sonys operating system, connect to PSN, run Playstation games and look fantastic while doing so. Just like the PS3 did before it. It's still a Sony, and it's still very much a Playstation.

The next Playstation is on the way. We are ready. Are you?

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Kryten1029a
Kryten1029a
8 years ago

Sony still has the strongest stable of first-party developers and X86 will just make it easier for everyone to develop for the platform. The future is bright, guys.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Well yeah. That's pretty much the article summed up in two sentences. You're good! ๐Ÿ™‚

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

You should add that as the TL:DR line.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

Had to check who the contributor was hahaha.

Nice write up Beam.

Except, it's "thou shalt not fear" ๐Ÿ™‚

I agree, that Hidden Power thing is actually quite ridiculous now that I think about it. Do we REALLY want to spend all that money on a new system, just to play games that are only slightly better or even the same as current generation titles, for at least the next 3 years? I remember being very dissapointed with Resistance 1 on PS3. Killzone 2 however, blew me away.

EDIT:
Sooooo do we refer to the new contributors by their real names or their usernames? haha.


Last edited by Akuma_ on 4/9/2013 11:02:33 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

I for one am fine with "World" as that is how everyone knows me ๐Ÿ™‚

Jed
Jed
8 years ago

Now I have to learn wich user names go to each contributer. I guess I'll just have to find out in the comments.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
8 years ago

Yeah, I would ask contributors refer to each other with their real names. It might get confusing otherwise. ๐Ÿ™‚

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

I'm actually thinking of changing my nick to my real name now, to avoid a withstanding confusion.

Thanks for the compliment, Akuma!


Last edited by Beamboom on 4/10/2013 1:58:18 AM

Shams
Shams
8 years ago

Concise, well-organized, and convincing article Beamboom Espen. Kudos.

AcHiLLiA
AcHiLLiA
8 years ago

I got to ask this because I have no idea and never saw anything like this before, "Why is their a slash over the o in your last name beamboom?"

Crabba
Crabba
8 years ago

AcHiLLiA that would be because he's from Norway ๐Ÿ™‚ The Scandinavian countries have a lot of special characters not available in the English alphabet…

Cabalavatar1
Cabalavatar1
8 years ago

There's a very real danger with the change from the Cell processor with regard to PC emulators and piracy. That danger strictly applies to Sony's first-party developer software and their exclusivity with the PS4.

The PS4 should be fairly easy to make an emulator for. While the Cell processor posed all sorts of problems for many years, both with developer ports (Bayonetta and Fallout 3, anyone?) and with PC emulators, the PS4's mid-range PC specs will allow for the ease of making an emulator.

If Sony retains its policy of console exclusivity, it may very soon lose out on the market of people who want Sony's amazing first-party software but who don't want to spend their money on a PS4–especially when they already own a quality PC that can easily play an easily ported version of the game right on their PC. Now, sure, Sony shouldn't "have to" work their business model around software piracy. But what happens if they don't? They'll potentially lose a lot of money.

What can they potentially do to abate some of this piracy, though? They could consider _timed_ exclusives. We've seen this already with CoD, Fallout, Skyrim, and many other games. So, owning a PS4 will mean being able to play exclusives earlier (and legally) and perhaps also getting a discount that PC port versions wouldn't get. One year after release, the PS4 version becomes $30-$40; whereas, the PC port version debuts simultaneously at $60.

We can decry and condemn piracy all we like, and I'll be there right alongside, but Sony (maybe literally) can't afford to ignore how easily its technology would be to port to a PC emulator.


Last edited by Cabalavatar1 on 4/9/2013 11:19:31 PM

Axe99
Axe99
8 years ago

I'm not so sure about this – emulating GDDR5 combined memory travelling across a single chip (much higher data transfer rates) on a PC system won't be straightforward.

Cabalavatar1
Cabalavatar1
8 years ago

I'm guessing that it'll take all of 3-6 months for a functioning emulator and maybe a year before an emulator is basically perfected.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

Is console piracy as big of an issue as other forms of piracy?

I have never actually met someone who has done it. Used games takes up more sales than piracy does, a LOT more.


Last edited by Akuma_ on 4/10/2013 12:57:15 AM

___________
___________
8 years ago

defiantly as big a issue as others, if not bigger!
every single time a console game goes gold, days later its on websites to download!
hell, a few guys i use to work with already have copies of injustice and dead island riptide!
especially now that both the 360 and ps3 have ODD, optical drive emulators, out in the wild anyone and everyone can pirate whatever game they want!

may not be as big as a problem as used games, hard to say really too difficult to tally up all the downloads for a game compared to used sales.
but its still a very big issue none the less!
and i wouldent be surprised if this is exactly why the next xbox is online only.
makes it SO much easier to tell if someone has modified their system in any way.
offline system makes it nigh on impossible to detect, then stop these things.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

Clearly I am missing out on an entire world of piracy here….. Yaarrrr.

Well… I like to support local games retailers anyways.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

I think the consolodation of pc architecture into consoles will push the services to rise to the highest standard of quality which will, along with exclusive games, be the big reason for buying which console fits you best. That console for me is going to be the PS4. At the reveal I just saw a huge investment in infrastructure and experience, which makes the chips inside the box less important to me.

My hopes are that this power can be used to make everything as simple as Sony says it will be, including some kind of efforts to turn loading and saving screens into very short blips or gone altogether. It would be good to have done with mandatory installs as well.

touchyourtoes
touchyourtoes
8 years ago

I don't know about mandatory installs but optional full installs would be welcome to reduce/eliminate load screens/time.

Cesar_ser_4
Cesar_ser_4
8 years ago

I second that, specially the installation although I kinda doubt it. At least this time around let us decide whether we want to install the full game a la 360. I'd rather have the whole game be read from the HDD. That'll keep the machine a little more cool since the disc won't be spinning.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

I think we will see the end of mandatory installs. The reason why they were present on the PS3 was because of the relatively small amount of RAM. The GDDR5 ram should eliminate this.

Agree with touchyourtoes though, optional installs to decrease load times would be a great idea.


Last edited by Akuma_ on 4/10/2013 12:55:23 AM

LegendaryWolfeh
LegendaryWolfeh
8 years ago

Pretty sure the problem was the Bluray Reader was just really slow for the ps3 since it was among the original ones, no?

Axe99
Axe99
8 years ago

Well said Beam :). I actually think the move to x86 is a sensible one – and by still having some more unique features (SoC structure, unified GDDR5 memory, whatever things they've adjusted on the GPU and the custom chips for specialised tasks) it'll still be relatively unique hardware. But, more importantly, by kicking off with an x86 structure, it will be cheaper and easier for developers to make games. As you say, in an era of rising development costs, this will come to the fore next generation.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Thanks Axe. ๐Ÿ™‚

ryu
ryu
8 years ago

the only reason they used the cell was because of the 8-core processing, right? if PS4 could do the same thing via x86, then what's the point of keeping it to complicate thing

Temjin001
Temjin001
8 years ago

Nicely written Espen =)

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Thanks! ๐Ÿ™‚

Jed
Jed
8 years ago

I agree Boom. From what I've heard devs are happy with the x86 architecture. I'll also be happy if we can start getting really great, smooth running games at the beginning of the PS4's lifespan instead of waiting a few years for devs to overcome the "learning curve". Good games are what sell consoles.

Hopefully we'll finally be able to play a Bethesda game without a sh!tload of glitches on the PS4.

Kiryu
Kiryu
8 years ago

Dishonored on PS3 with zero bugs

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

Skyrim had a lot more bugs on 360 than PS3 apparently.

Difference was that they were very apparent bugs on PS3.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Yes the developers *are* happy, and for us as gamers that should be what matters most. It's the developers who creates the games we want to play. It's them who in needs to relate to what's inside, not us end users.

Cabalavatar1
Cabalavatar1
8 years ago

Suggestion: Contributors sign articles with both names and user names so we'll know who's who.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
8 years ago

They can if they want.

Cesar_ser_4
Cesar_ser_4
8 years ago

Better yet, change their username to their real name in the same format Ben has. David Nelson (Contributor)

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Yup I agree Cesar – I just now tried to change my nick like you suggest here, but I get an error in return.

Ben, you need to talk to your tech guy to fix this bug. ๐Ÿ™‚

H8WL3R
H8WL3R
8 years ago

Yeah, I read you Beamboom. I still can't get a profile pic up again. ๐Ÿ™ Wait a minute… actually I suddenly see one there. Huh?


Last edited by H8WL3R on 4/10/2013 11:30:40 PM

Kiryu
Kiryu
8 years ago

I personally cannot wait for the Playstation 4.Finally developers can do games with the quality of Final Fantasy Advent Children movie in gameplay.
And you dont need to 4 years to make a game like the Last of US.


Last edited by Kiryu on 4/9/2013 11:56:59 PM

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Yes, it matters, yes we should care. a single standard architecture – which is what we are moving towards, will not be good for consumers or the industry. The hidden power thing is a real property of the ability of game programmers and designers to exploit undocumented capabilities in a platform, and master the ins and outs of programming it. The PC architecture is so well known and understood that there is little to no mystery to it. You can downplay all that if you like, you can sweep it aside and cheer from the sidelines waving pom-poms all you like, but it will not add any mystery.

You say that security will not be a problem, and I say you're wrong. x86 is the malware platform of choice. If you're going to say that security is not found in the architecture but in the system software running on it, I'm going to send you back to college to re-learn that which you obviously forgot. Basic system security comes at the hardware level, the ability of a program to do anything depends on the level it runs at in a processor.

Any security that ships in software form as a firmware update is vulnerable to extraction and exploitation. Read the journals and papers on roots of trust, and the various discussions of system security for Trusted Computing for more information. Basically it boils don to this. As a security designer for a system, your first assumption is that the system software will be compromised, and so you must determine how to best handle the security in the event that the system software is compromised at the root level.

That is security at the architectural level, not in the system software.

I beg to differ about the aspect of the 'spirit'. I don't think you really understand/understood that spirit before, and don't find your assertions about it not changing in any way convincing. Personally I feel that the change is already occurring. The entire industry is shifting away from what made it great towards a commodity based future of cheap games, and microtransaction funded software that relies on an always on network presence. The days of the stand alone game console and solo play are numbered, and PS4 will be the end of it. That fundamentally alters the 'spirit'.

The PlayStation 4 is a PlayStation in name only, it's a PC with a badge, they could almost call it the VaioStation. The PlayStation 5 will be a virtual device.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 4/10/2013 1:13:40 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Well, I agree that the gaming world is changing, and as such you might say the "spirit" changes with it, but that is *not* due to architecture. That is my point here. This change of spirit would have happened regardless of what architecture were found inside the PS4 – the inside of the boxes plays no role in this.

But yes, gaming is changing quite dramatically with the shift towards always online requirements, micro transactions, multi player, user created content, and so forth. This is worthy of an article in itself!
But that is *not* related to architecture.


Last edited by Beamboom on 4/10/2013 2:11:25 AM

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

So you are saying you still want the 'Hidden Power' factor?

I personally don't. I don't want to fork out hundreds of dollars on a console, in which the games won't look better for years to come, I don't want to wait around for innovations in gameplay until they have mastered the architecture. I want all that from Day 1.

Your final statement of it being a PC, is, and always will be, completely confusing to me. I don't understand how you can say this ONLY about the PS4?! If you really say that, then you may as well say that every console made was 'just a PC'.

If the arguement is that custom made hardware is what makes it a Playstation (which sounds ridiculous), then it still retains that fact. The difference this time, is that it won't require a learning curve to do anything with it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the PS4 is not using stock standard out of the box PC parts? The hardware in the PS4 was put together and tweaked, for the PS4. AMD themselves spoke on their blog about customizing the CPU in coordination with Sony.

The PS4 was made for the main purpose of playing video games on your home entertainment system. To sit there on a lounge/chair with a controller in your hand, fragging away enemies and friends alike. This alone makes it a console.


Last edited by Akuma_ on 4/10/2013 2:10:18 AM

Cesar_ser_4
Cesar_ser_4
8 years ago

The only "customization" that was done to the STOCK PARTS that go into the PS4 were that they just throttled the frequency. If I'm not mistaken they lowered the frequency on the APU. As for that thing you say about the PS4 being a PC, it is technically correct. In the beginning, what separated the console from the pc was the custom architecture. The fact that that custom arch had "hidden power". Had Sony kept their confidence intact and invested in a CPU and GPU all of their own, you bet they could have come out with something that would dominate the gaming world. You know why it took software devs so long to "take advantage" of the PS3? Because devs got lazy. They thought that as long as gamers were willing to pay for their mediocre efforts to make a game barely run on our system of choice they didn't need to take advantage of it. As long as they made us believe that "its not about who has the better graphics" but "it running the "equally" on both consoles" it wouldn't matter what the game looked like. In that regard the 360 took home the graphics crown. With its ability to decompress textures, whereas the PS3 had what I like to call "the Blu-ray advantage"(R). It didn't need to decompress anything. The full blown intended look of the game was there, in its full blown "decompressed" glory. And they still couldn't make the game run equally on both consoles in most cases. Of course if Mr Highlander can make sense of me babbling he could corroborate on the subject. But that is just the gist of it. It wasn't the arch's fault it was the developers' for not going out of their way and try to deliver. Had they done so, All games would look better,. They wouldn't be Uncharted quality but they wouldn't lag this far behind PC games either.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

Where did you read that about the CPU? I was going from the AMD blog, and while I admit it is obviously only a little bit of customization, they themselves call it a semi-custom APU. From what I heard, AMD's current top-end APU only runs 700 GFLOPS. That's a 3x increase for the PS4's GPU alone.

To me, it's just a choice of architecture. I don't see how it is really a defining feature of the PS brand, and if it is, then that is crap lol.
The main thing that defines a Playstation console, is that there is always a steep learning curve to develop for it?? lol

The experience and function is what makes it a console, and the ecosystem it lives in is what makes it a Playstation.

EDIT: Even if the devs weren't lazy, learning to take full advantage of a custom architecture would take time, a lot of time, and would have still delayed a lot of awesome games.

EDIT2: You know, there is still some level of hidden power, I'm talking about the 8 cores. If a developer can actually effectively distribute computation load across all 8 cores, that would be a major accomplishment.


Last edited by Akuma_ on 4/10/2013 8:36:13 AM

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
8 years ago

Highlander –

I really believe you are failing to understand that our Playstation games we love are only going to get better.

Just about every comment I have seen you write in regards to the PS4 maintains a laser focus on PC this-PC that. It's your opinion and yes, you can share it, but that isn't really my point.

I get that you are "frustrated" over what Sony is doing but I also know that you are a gamer at heart and the PS4 will still supply the highest quality games in the industry.

Why not change your stance and look at the gaming greatness heading our way? I only suggest this since Sony will not cave in to the complaints issued by you and types like you.

I see you playing WKC2 almost daily and you can rest easy because I promise you that if (I only say if because WKC2 wasn't a commercial success) a new WKC comes out on the PS4 you will more than happy with it.

If you need a reminder as to why you love your hobby, go check out that E3 Kevin Butler video from a few years back. ๐Ÿ™‚

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Akuma, the industry standard definition of a PC has been and pretty much always will be based on the use of an X86 architecture. You can argue semantics all you like, but you're extending the definition of 'PC' to include any computer used personally, in which case your definition of PC includes not only desktop, laptop and notebook PCs, but also iOS/Android smart phones, iOS/Android tablets, game consoles of all descriptions, and any other computing device including embedded computers in fridges, microwaves and cars.

Sorry, but that's plain silly. the industry accepted definition of what constitutes a PC begins with the CPU used, the x86 architecture. Yes, current Macs are PCs running the Mac OS. PCs are general purpose computing devices built on a general purpose computing platform. Video game consoles are not PCs, they are generally speaking not build on general purpose platforms. The lone exception is the Original Xbox which was an Intel Celeron (x86) based HTPC with a game controller and bespoke OS.

PS4 and the next Xbox are at their heart PCs, at the hardware level, they are PCs. The PS4 is using a tweaked variant of an as yet unreleased AMD APU that WILL be used in consumer PCs when it is launched. The only tweak that has been mentioned is the use of the name PlayStation Shader Language for a Sony tweaked version of HLSL (High Level Shader Language) created for the DirectX API on PCs.

Other than that the APU is jaguar (x86) cores with a south islands GPU, both are existing or in-the-pipeline PC parts, and the unbranded AMD APU will find it's way into a range of PCs.

It's PC hardware and there's really no denying that. Instead of trying to persuade me that there is some kind of special factor that makes the APU not a PC part; or somehow convince me that previous consoles are PCs too; why not just accept the truth which is that at the hardware level the PS4 is a PC architecture?

It doesn't matter if I 'correct you where you are wrong' you won't believe me anyway. You seem very hung up (as do others here) on the fact that I continue to say that the PS4 is a PC. You say that doesn't matter, and yet you continue to try to persuade me otherwise. If it really doesn't matter to you, then just accept that the PS4 is a PC architecture and move on.

Cesar_ser_4 is correct in his reply.

Akuma, the APU in the PS4 is not nearly so custom a part as you want to believe. The jaguar cores and south Islands GPU are standard features of the upcoming AMD APU generation. PS4 is the first high profile product to use them. The APU in the PS4 is quoted as running at various TFLOP figures. I've seen numbers from 1.2 to 1.8 TFLOPS quoted for the APU. Those are quite respectable figures compared to the real performacne of the RSX. Though Sony claimed 1.2TFLOPS for RSX the truth was closer to 180GFLOPS (single precision) and about 10GFLOPS double precision.

I've spent some time combing through the documents that AMD provide about the South Islands GPUs (aka GCN) – which is what is in the PS4 APU. The closest known GPU to what is claimed for the PS4 is the Radeon HD7790 aka Bonaire XT. It features a core configuration that closely matches what is claimed for the PS4, and can crank out 1.8TFLOPS (single precision) and 112GFLOPS in double precision.

The other 'possibility' is half of an HD7970 which matches the configuration and performance, but offers a 384bit data bus which I believe has been mentioned about the PS4's GPU. I think it's more likely that the PS4 APU has a modified 7790 with the wider database, but otherwise similar configuration and performance.

The GPU performance is – as I have said before – where the PS4 really has improved the specification over the previous console generation.

Max, I may be a contributor and commenter here, but I see no reason to discuss what game you see me playing on PSN, it has no bearing what so ever on the discussion of the PS4 platform. You can rest assured that my liking of that game has zero influence on my opinion regarding PS4 hardware.

My laser focus is on the hardware because I know hardware. I focused on the PS3 hardware pretty closely too. So it really should be no surprise that I focus on the PS4 in the same way. I see no reason to defend my opinions or assessments of the hardware involved. I will continue to correct and explore the wishful thinking and assumptions that people make about the PS4 hardware, and provide hard technical data where I can. As you can see above, I am quoting performance figures for the PS4 APU that are double what Akuma was claiming them to be. If I just wished to be negative (which I do not) I could easily have cherry picked the data and quoted the lower double precision number alone.

Perhaps you should understand how horribly disappointing cloud based BC is, or how disappointing it is to have an x86 based PlayStation that has a CPU that is roughly equivalent to the 7 year old CellBE. PS4 will look great in game, the GPU is a sufficient jump over the RSX to allow some nice things to be done. But, as a hardware geek, I'm really disappointed that the CPU is not stronger, and that they elected to use the venerable and ancient x86 architecture beloved of PC makers since 1979.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
8 years ago

Highlander –

Actually, I brought up what you play for a reason. If a sequel to the game comes out on the PS4 it will be better then the one on the PS3, correct? Just trying to be positive here friend as you seem to be unable to see the forest inspite of the trees.

I understand that you know hardware, and as I have mentioned before, I respect your knowledge. I was simply attempting to remind you of how as Playstation fans, our premium gaming will continue regardless of "what" the PS4 is made of. Naughty Dog will still blow us away with Uncharted PS4 for example.

The whole backward compatibility issue is not important to me because I plan on keeping one PS3 at my house should I choose to play an older game. I expect (and as I have read here) many to do the same.

So the PS4 is an "old" computer… so the PS4 isn't some quantum leap over the PS3… I say this because outside of a few exclusive games, the PS3's alledged power advantage over the 360 did little for me as a gamer. In fact, the shoddy ports that plagued the PS3 early on caused many to move to the 360. I am 100% sure Sony noticed this and was unhappy with the attachment rates advantage the 360 had.

Being how you are a self-proclaimed "computer geek" you should appreciate the fact that Sony made some decisions based on affordability instead of moving forward with pricey cutting edge hardware. Sony isn't exactly a business model for profitibility right now. Sony can't afford to have another PS3 debacle with the PS4, especially if wants to reclaim it's marketshare lead in North America.

Our beloved franchises aren't going to get worse all of a sudden since they are running on architecture from 1979.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Max, the likelihood of me purchasing a RPG from the folks behind the WKC2 debacle is vanishingly small. I'm not referring specifically to Level 5, I'm referring to the combination of SCEA, D3/Namco and Level 5. That specific trio have a lot of work to do to re-earn my trust with respect to JRPGs and online RPGs.

You say "computer geek" like it's a bad thing…

If you actually read my posts about the hardware, you will be hard pressed to find anything that is inaccurate or just plain wrong.

When it comes to more subjective qualities such as the 'spirit' of PlayStation or things like that, those things are subjective, matters of opinion. I don't share your opinion.

Axe99
Axe99
8 years ago

It may not be as bad as all that Highlander – here's hoping it isn't, and that there's plenty of Playstation uniqueness amongst the PS4's offerings. From what I can see, they're shooting for the best of both worlds – as broad a base of games as possible, but also top-tier exclusives. They need x86 for the broad base, and they can still make top-tier exclusives as well. We'll know in seven months or so either way :).

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
8 years ago

Highlander –

If my calling you a "computer geek" (your own words) offended you, my apologies, for I didn't intend to. With that said, I do believe your vast knowledge of the PC is causing you to overlook the positives such as the PS4 is the most powerful Sony console we have seen. Plus, my LIFE depends on computers so guys like you get a big thumbs up from me!

Well, I never said you were wrong about anything PC related now have I? I simply wanted to point out to you that Sony's desire for excellent games hasn't gone anywhere and the franchises we know and love will only get better. I can't see the bad in that, even if the PS4 isn't some bleeding edge techo wonder.

Agreed. Opinions are, what opinons are and it only leads to discussions on PSXE. LOL

Ultima
Ultima
8 years ago

HIghlander re: Spirit

While I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with Boom's assertation on PS4 retaining "the soul of PLaystation", your response is complete and utter horeshit. You've got to stop treating Playstation history as if it started with the PS3. The PS2 and ESPECIALLY the PS1 contradict your myopic, historically-lacking viewpoint. CDs were the original "Cheap games". Sony planned for the PS2 to have online connectivity from the beginning (which it did, but it took much longer than anticipated). As has been stated repeatedly, given the path that Sony was going with the PS3, continuing down that path would only lead to self destruction. Yet you cling to this tired foolish notion that somehow Sony has "betrayed" their fanbase by switching architectures, completely ignoring reality and history.

I ask you again: Were you a fan of the Sega Saturn? I was, but only because it had exclusive games I liked (mostly JPN import 2D fighters). I couldn't give a shit about the hardware, which was actually shoddily put together, but apparently you could do some amazing things with it, as Sega proved with Virtua Fighter 2. Too bad nobody else bothered. The PSX was much more developer-friendly device, which *gasp* made them make more games for it and better versions of multi-platform games. It worked before, so I don't see why the PS4 should be different. Sony got away with being arrogant with the PS2's hardware and were rightfully punished when they went even more arrogant with the PS3 ("work more hours to buy one!" – Ken Kutaragi), forgetting what really made them attractive to developers in the first place.

If there is such a thing as the "soul" of the Playstation (note: there isn't), it never resided in the hardware. Hardware is largely irrelevant, as proven by every single Playstation console in history (neither the PS1 nor the PS2 were the most powerful systems of their time and they were the most successful; the PSP and Vita far outstrip Nintendo's equivalent offerings in power but have always been behind them in sales; the PS3 is the most powerful of the current bunch of systems but will come out this generation in third place). It's only what's done with the hardware that counts.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Ultima, if you're going to throw horseshit around, perhaps you should not use it as an insult as well. I'm not sure how you extrapolate your argument saying I am somehow myopically ignoring the original PlayStation.

PS1 was MIPS based, not a hugely common architecture, and a RISC platform to boot. Neither familiar territory to PC developers, but both well beloved of the graphics workstation guys. PS1 also threw in a capable GPU with 3D polygon graphics, and a CD-ROM. It was not cheap either. Games were cheaper to make on CD than cartridge, but developers had to learn a new, non-PC architecture, and there was plenty of hidden potential to exploit.

PS2 on the other hand went for a bespoke CPU and GPU – the Emotion Engine and GS. Architecturally speaking, the Emotion engin was a general purpose core with 2 vector processing cores in one package. Conceptually, the Cell is similar – 1 general core plus 7 vector units. The Graphics Synthesizer was a completely custom part with a 1536-bit data bus inside it. That allowed it to move data at speeds that still are not routinely achieved in high end GPUs. Developers had to learnlots of new things, and of course PS2 pioneered (no pun intended) DVD use in the home. So, I'm not sure how or why you felt you had to attack me, nor why you thought that you could somehow bend my words into ignoring the PlayStation heritage.

Oh, BTW, if you want to talk about horseshit, how about this pile you deposited?

"Sony got away with being arrogant with the PS2's hardware and were rightfully punished when they went even more arrogant with the PS3"

PS2 is the best selling home video console of all time, so, how was it arrogant? Because they put DVD in it? Are you one of those people that thinks that including new technology like the DVD is forcing it down the throat of consumers?

First of all you come over all rose tinted glasses about the PS1 being so easy to develop for; except that it was a new architecture, there was nothing like it, so it was not exactly a nice safe familiar architecture. Sony invested heavily in both PS1 and PS2 in giving as much performance in the box as they could. That continued with PS3. You quoting Ken Kutaragi about working hard to get one is mildly amusing and completely out of context. That one statement of his does not define the playstation, nor does your disparaging tone devalue him.

Not sure why you wish to be so hostile, But you really, really are.

I'm not going to answer your question about the Sega Saturn I didn't see it the first time you apparently asked, but since you wish to adopt a hectoring tone with me, you'll just have to whistle for an answer.

PS2 was the most powerful console of it's generation. PS3 will not be third, it is already second in global sales, so you're both wrong and utterly out of date. PSP sold very well considering it started from a market share of exactly 0%. You should take off the blinkers sometime and look at reality.

Last, it's only what's done with the hardware that counts eh? That does rather presume that the hardware is capable of performing the task in question. No amount of good programming will make up for crap hardware.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 4/12/2013 5:10:54 AM