There will forever be this gap between the so-called "hardcore gamer" and the casual or mainstream crowd.

What I didn't realize is that I'm apparently a "casual" gamer because I'm not down with games like Dark Souls and the upcoming Bloodborne .

Don't get me wrong; I certainly respect such games. I have no doubt that the upcoming PlayStation 4 exclusive will be pretty damn great, and I look forward to giving it a try. That being said, I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to such games and to be perfectly blunt, I'm not a masochist. Yeah, I know, saying that really pisses people off, because it implies that those who enjoy such experiences are screwed up in some way. That's not what I mean, though.

I simply mean I find such experiences to be extremely tedious and not anywhere near as enjoyable as they should be. Do I hold anything against those who see it differently? Of course not. There was a time when I was a bit of a masochist; I took great pride in beating Ninja Gaiden on Xbox and Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening (before the re-release changed the standard difficulty to Normal, as opposed to Hard). These days, however, I just play games to relax and have fun. That means Bloodborne is out for me.

And yet, I've had people say you can't be "hardcore" unless you can conquer such games. I guess a game's difficulty has a direct impact on your affiliation, which I do understand to some extent. The everyday mainstream gamer has no shot with Dark Souls and they don't care. At the same time, I'm a little tired of the "elite" gamers out there pretending like others are lesser enthusiasts simply because they don't embrace extremely challenging games.

Am I the only one who's annoyed by this little trend?

Related Game(s): Bloodborne

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fatelementality
fatelementality
6 years ago

I think everyone just wants to be bigger & better than the next guy. Society in general in this country has gone so downhill in the past 20 years it's ridiculous. I'm like you & used to have the time & patience for beating such games (NG & DMC included) but there are so many things on my plate now that I'll never even finish. Guess I really can't invest that much time in such trial & error now. Variety is my flavor. I can't even embrace joining an MMO due to cheaters & kids. Also the adult kids.


Last edited by fatelementality on 1/7/2015 10:26:09 PM

pavlovic
pavlovic
6 years ago

I preordered Bloodborne because I want to play it and I want to enjoy it.

I really want, but I'm afraid I get frustated too soon.

souljah92
souljah92
6 years ago

Real gamers play Tetris, gtfo.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
6 years ago

Good luck man.

Corvo
Corvo
6 years ago

I think you aren't hardcore cause you liked Unity. Not liking the Souls games or being hyped for Bloodborne just makes you an idiot. No offense.

Banky A
Banky A
6 years ago

watt

Jawknee
Jawknee
6 years ago

dumbest comment of 2015 so far.

souljah92
souljah92
6 years ago

nerd

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
6 years ago

Your comments have been getting increasingly immature and stupid. Just so you know.

slow and smart
slow and smart
6 years ago

well we know now who's the real idiot

Axe99
Axe99
6 years ago

Is this sarcasm/irony? If so, probably a little subtle for the internet. If not, then judging someone because they don't like the same things you don't is incredibly immature and parochial.

tes37
tes37
6 years ago

You're an idiot, no offense. Unity is a step in the right direction for the franchise.

DIsmael85
DIsmael85
6 years ago

Yeah I'm actually getting annoyed by all these so called hardcore gamers over the Souls series of games. They are interesting and I am looking forward to playing Bloodborn, but come on if you don't care for those games that's a preference. They aren't magical gold themselves.

Sol
Sol
6 years ago

Ben before I disappear again into the shadows of PSXextreme, as I've been known to do. Let me step into the light for a brief moment and say, that the labels of casual and hardcore are relics from a juvenile age of gaming…

I've been a member here for some time now, and I remember the kind of guy you were back before I had a PS3, back when I wanted to win the Blue one (remember those days?)…

Anyways, I've obtained quite the amount of gaming experience however late I may have been entering the third generation of Playstation home consoles. What I have learned, is that there isn't simply hardcore or casual. There is a scale, between playing a game professionally, and playing for personal enjoyment. There is no specific label, but rather every gamer fits on this scale ranging from playing for fun, and playing for sport/competitiion/work.

You as with every gamer is not one or the other, but a combination of the two in some way.

You are no less a gamer than me, and I fancy myself a trophy hunter. We are all equals. There is no wrong way to game, because ultimately, we all game because we like it, regardless of the reason. The same goes for the people I see playing through some ridiculously high level of Candy Crush. Hell, people used to think mobile gamers weren't all that, but when you see how good at them people can become, you can't say they aren't "hardcore" by that ancient logic.

You not wanting to play Bloodborne is you simply knowing that the game is stress-inducing. You have a right as your own brand of gamer to decide when and what stresses you want to endure…

Anybody can break a brick with their bare hand, but I'm liable to break my hand in the process, so I'll leave it to someone who wants to break those bricks.

Excuse my sometimes intangible talk, as it is late.

Forever in the background,

darkswordsmansol

PS4_Mom
PS4_Mom
6 years ago

Sorry Sol, but I won the blue ps3 and I am still using it even though I also have a ps4.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
6 years ago

Heh…I appreciate the great post but I'm not quite so fragile as all that.

It was just an observation, really. I'm long past caring about what others think of my gaming habits. 🙂

Jawknee
Jawknee
6 years ago

I don't care for Bloodborne either. Still not even sure what it is. As for Demon/Dark Souls, I play games to have fun. Not self induce frustration.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
6 years ago

It appears to be pure darkness and despair in gaming form.

cLoudou
cLoudou
6 years ago

Being "Hardcore" isn't all that cracked up to be. Just why the need to be under the label of "hardcore"? I play games to have fun, escape and immerse myself not to be "hardcore". IDRGAF what people think what type of gamer I am.

PS, I am looking forward to Bloodborne. Am I cool yet?


Last edited by cLoudou on 1/7/2015 11:35:52 PM

Riku994
Riku994
6 years ago

Don't take it to heart, Ben. The Dark Souls community likes to rag on anybody who hasn't beaten the game, or still has trouble on a certain boss. It's mostly juvenile, really.

That said, I love the Souls games themselves and I'm going to love Bloodborne too, but the community can be really immature and tend to give themselves a bad name.

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago

I'm okay with those Souls/Bloodborne guys talking trash. Gaming used to be about that. You hung your hat on what you could do in a game that some others you know couldn't. Especially, in the arcades. Now it's people looking for immersion (A word I have truly begun to loathe, as it has been turned into a word synonymous with graphics as if you can't be immersed in Tetris) and as close to Hollywood with any requirement beyond a ground floor level of gaming skill threatens to break the illusion.

Yeah, I say they've earned their bragging rights cutting their teeth on such a demanding title in this day and age. I'm amazed at how these guys pull it off with ease.


Last edited by n/a on 1/8/2015 12:23:14 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
6 years ago

🙂

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago

You were right, man. 100%

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
6 years ago

Heres the term I've grown to hate "A living… breathing world…"

Axe99
Axe99
6 years ago

Pffft, 'bragging rights' are something that people should grow out of before they hit double-digits, and if they haven't grown out of them before their 20s, then they're looking at a whole world of unnecessary emotional discomfort later in life.

I agree that with some gaming that there was a competitive element, but not all games in the arcades were about beating on someone else (a lot of the lightgun shooters were coop, for example). There is definitely a competitive element in gaming, but for the competitive people to decide for themselves that they're hardcore only points to them being 'hardcore' when it comes to emotional immaturity ;).

xenris
xenris
6 years ago

I consider a hardcore gamer anyone who spends most of their spare time gaming, regardless of the difficulty of the game. It's funny because I would consider strategy games much more hardcore than Souls games if we are going off of accessibility. More numbers to consider, more min maxing etc.

I personally like putting games on the hardest setting for the most part because I love being challenged. I don't find it tedious to replay sections over and over again because I know I'm only failing because I'm doing something wrong and I can fix it eventually.

I like the Souls games because they make me play other games better, they make me think before I act and when I do something cool in the game or overcome something I feel like a bad ass and I know I earned it.

I don't think all the Souls players rip on casual gamers, I certainly don't. I think most Souls fans just get frustrated when people complain about the game and want it changed because they say it is unfair or too hard. That is the only time I will come out and call someone a casual, because their skills just aren't enough for this game.

Axe99
Axe99
6 years ago

But how many gamers do this? I don't dig the Souls games, but I respect them and I'm glad they're there so that people that do like that kind of thing can enjoy them. I've seen _lots_ of people talk down on other gamers because they've played through the Souls games, and not one ask for them to be made more accessible. I've also seen lots of Souls gamers ask for existing franchises to be made more like Souls games – so it cuts both ways ;).

That said, the gamers wanting the game to be made more accessible aren't casual (as you say, from a lot of perspectives the Souls games are plenty accessible – and nowhere near as punishing – as many strategy titles) – they're just parochial and self-centred. Plenty of people that enjoy the Souls games have the same characteristics ;).

xenris
xenris
6 years ago

Ouch was that last sentence a jab are me 😛

I get what you are saying, I think its that I play Dota 2 and that community is the very scum of the planet all brought together to rage at each other. So I often don't realize the Souls community as being that bad.

In my experience a lot of people say that they love the worlds of the Souls games and the story but just wish they were made easier.

I know World on this site has similar views to that or he did, I don't want to speak for him. But I have seen several comments like those in these very comment sections 🙂

All in all I maintain that Hardcore is simply how much time you spend playing games not how difficult they are.

Vitron
Vitron
6 years ago

Elitists will never disappear. They're everywhere.

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
6 years ago

I blame the developers smug advertising campaign always flaunting difficulty at the top of their dress. I have never praised a game for being difficult. Most games have an Extreme difficulty setting which is more than enough for me, so it just doesn't seem like a unique feature to these developers for me.

The only appealing thing about Bloodborne is that it is mutliplayer and not a FPS. But from what I have seen of it, it just looks really dreary and not because of the art designs intentions. The combat looks so repetitive and boring. Not for me I'm afraid but if other people are after the game so be it.


Last edited by Vivi_Gamer on 1/8/2015 1:44:04 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
6 years ago

Ben, when you say "I just play games to relax and have fun" I'd say that is the very definition of "casual" according to my perception of the term.

Causal activities are what most of us do in our spare time. Many of us do ball games like tennis, football, handball to stay fit and have fun with mates. Not to win big tournaments, not to make it a career. We do it… Casually.

I am a professional programmer because, well, it's my profession. But in my spare time I only do causal programming. Small projects, a vast majority that never will be completed, most barely just started. Just for fun, or to try stuff, casually.

When a game is no longer fun, I stop playing. Or when something more interesting pops up. I am most definitely what I would categorize as an enthusiastic, but causal gamer.

As *most* of us are. As we get older we gain a perspective on life. We are more aware of what is actually worth spending time on. We have alternative spare time activities. We… Have a life.

So I find it silly when when people use the term "casual" as a condescending expression. It's not. It only means we're in it for the fun of it. One should much rather view those who insist to call themselves "hardcore gamers" with a healthy dose of scepticism. Cause really, its' GAMES, ffs.


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/8/2015 3:34:57 AM

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
6 years ago

Well, to me, I don't think we should reserve the label "hardcore" for only pro gamers. That leaves out 99.9 percent of the gaming community. I really just have one question to determine "hardcore:"

Is your primary hobby video games? If yes, I'd say you're hardcore; if no, then not. Maybe it isn't that simple but I think it works.

Axe99
Axe99
6 years ago

Under this definition, most of the people that play the Souls games would also come under the definition of casual ;).

I do like your point of moving away from the concept of casual as a pejorative term. There's nothing wrong with kicking back and enjoying something that's not as punishing, if that's what suits the player.

Beamboom
Beamboom
6 years ago

I'd say a synonym for "hardcore" could be "extreme", ergo an "extreme gamer". It's different than "pro" as you correctly state Ben (a very different category gamers), but much more intense in their dedication than a regular gamer.

I believe anyone "hardcore" in any context belong to a clear minority. It's in the nature of being hardcore – most are not. If they were, it would not be hardcore.

The extreme (ie, "hardcore") gamers are the kind who sets speedrun records and post it on youtube. Or take down raid bosses solo. Gamers that play something so intensively that they start doing stuff they were not supposed to be able to. Stuff that makes others go "wtf?!". That's hardcore for ya.

So yeah, I do believe there are lots of casual gamers who can enjoy the Souls games, Axe99.


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/9/2015 5:19:44 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
6 years ago

… but few of them ever beat the game. That requires hardcore dedication. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/9/2015 9:03:58 AM

JackieBoy
JackieBoy
6 years ago

Bullshait! HC gamer is not the one who plays frustrating, stressful and challenging games. It's the one who spends every bit of his/hers spare time gaming. You can play only DS 1 hour a day and be casual or you can play Tetris 10h a day and be a hardcore gamer.
PS. I don't care bout being casual or hardcore, neither care for Bloodborne. I play for my own fun. As do we all (unless you play Dota2 in The Internationals: )


Last edited by JackieBoy on 1/8/2015 6:26:31 AM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
6 years ago

Jackie my fellow pirate, you gotta suit up for for Raven's Cry January 28.

Avast ye matey!

smileys_007
smileys_007
6 years ago

I remember playing Demon's Souls on my ps3. That game was the most difficult PS game that I've played and I beat it. Those type of games are more frustrating rather than enjoyable and they require a lot of practice and time to beat it. For me, playing those type of games at least once or twice qualifies you as an elite gamer.. just my opinion.. lol

Axe99
Axe99
6 years ago

But why? It definitely suggests you've got more patience and you like doing stuff repetitively (even more so than videogames more generally!), but why does patience and a fondness for repetition qualify you as elite? Don't get me wrong, patience is a good thing, but perspective is as well ;).

slow and smart
slow and smart
6 years ago

For me gaming is having fun AND some challenge,and when you have to play a big part of a level over and over again [because you can't defeat some enemy the 1st time] is frustrating and not a challenge.
The challenge is not the problem for me,i don't like it when games are easy:it's the frustrating part of it.
If you can't beat a boss the 1st time,you must start over again with that boss and not with a big part of that level doing over and over again,that's no challenge,it's frustrating and boring!


Last edited by slow and smart on 1/8/2015 6:44:31 AM

slow and smart
slow and smart
6 years ago

And this is no attack on gamers who like these games,enjoy…this is only my opinion on this


Last edited by slow and smart on 1/8/2015 7:02:48 AM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
6 years ago

not to mention the time wasting involved, replaying areas 4 times can kill a whole afternoon when your weekend is 100% precious non-working time.

TrueAssassin86x
TrueAssassin86x
6 years ago

I never cared about demon/dark souls games and i dont care about bloodborne

Vell
Vell
6 years ago

I'm 43 yrs old & have been gaming since the Atari 2600 was new! To think that hardcore gaming would be based / determined / measured by 2 games (dark souls / demon souls ) is PITIFUL!!! Really?!

So I guess by that standard alone, a person that has beat both souls games is more hardcore than someone that is Level 18 wd trophies on ps without ever beating those, imo, whack ass games?

I'm not a trophy whore, just a gamer to the fullest!! Gimme a ok game, good game, great game: if I love it, I'll play it from beginning to end 5 or more times on each difficulty setting just for the challenge or because I love it like that.

I got games I've platinumed & I got tons of games that have 0-2% complete, dark souls is one of em. Anybody interested in comparing trophies or adding me, my id is: VELL

Beamboom
Beamboom
6 years ago

Hey another oldie! I'm 45. We are the first generation computer gamers, my friend. Feels awesome. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 1/8/2015 8:09:48 AM

slow and smart
slow and smart
6 years ago

well hello,49 and gaming a loooooong time….and still loving it

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
6 years ago

a lil younger here at 33 but I certainly feel I went through my "hard games and great challenges are fun" gaming time in the past and it's well and truly over.

Underdog15
Underdog15
6 years ago

My youngest gaming years came during the NES era, myself. Some of my favorite games were the first TMNT, Bucky O' Hare, Snake, Rattle, and Roll, and an awesome 31-in-1 cartridge.

I never once beat most of the games in the 31-in-1 cartridge, and I never beat the other three I mentioned, either. Just way too hard. But so fun. Back then, you didn't care too much if you couldn't beat it. In fact, most of the time, the biggest bragging rights with your friends was if you could say, "I beat that game."

Shauneepeak
Shauneepeak
6 years ago

Well wanting to relax and have fun instead of being challenged and having fun by conquering said challenge is essentially a casual gamer but I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

We should just play what we enjoy and ignore others.

Sure the Soul games can't really be called anything but hardcore but that doesn't make it any better than a game like Mario or Little Big planet all games have their own charm and set out to do very different things.

A game designed to be "hardcore" can be just as crappy as a super casual game but the exact opposite can be the case.
The type of game doesn't dictate how good it is it is the quality and care put into making the game that does.

Ben you might not be as "hardcore" as you once were but screw the people who say you are any less of a gamer and keep on playing what you enjoy.

Unless you wind up only enjoying games like Candy Crush and Angry Bird I think you are fine. XD

MRSUCCESS
MRSUCCESS
6 years ago

I am a huge fan of the series, with over 600 hours from Demon to Dark Souls 2. Playing the game doesn't make any better than someone else who enjoys an easier experience.

I personally don't enjoy playing horror games and I hope those who do don't see me as a sissy.

I think it's safe to say that we need more mature gamers out there.