For the most part, I don't really freak out about big installs. I don't load up my hard drive with a bunch of downloadable content, movies, or full Blu-Ray games. And I don't complain about the time it takes for an install, as I don't have an attention deficit problem.

That being said, it seems like every big game these days has a mandatory hard drive install. I still remember the days – not that long ago – when mandatory installs were exceedingly rare and now, with games getting bigger and bigger and developers requiring more space, even my hard drive is starting to feel the strain. And I delete any of the required game data for reviews, too! Even with only keeping installs I need for games I want to play, my 120GB hard drive is getting full fast. Yes, I know the standard is 160GB now, but that doesn't seem big enough, either. Maybe just toss in a terabyte.

And now you tell me Rage is going to eat up 8 goddamn GB ?! The Xbox 360 version takes three discs, too. I have to admit, things are getting a little irritating…maybe we need new hardware sooner than we think. That may be an extreme solution, of course (we could just get bigger hard drives), but I'm starting to dread putting in a new game. I never liked PC gaming because of the amount of time involved before the damn thing is running perfectly with all the right settings. One of the primary appeals of console gaming has always been the "hit a button and go" setup.

Sure, we can say it isn't a big deal and just clear out some hard drive space, and I understand that. No big deal, I suppose. But in my eyes, it's just getting annoying .

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Kiryu
Kiryu
9 years ago

Rage Developer doesn't know how to use the PS3.
Uncharted Series has no Install.
So the difference.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Why are you comparing two different games? Rage is a much larger game than Uncharted.

Kiryu
Kiryu
9 years ago

rage is on 3 360 discs that's 8*3=24gb
Even if it is because of 3d,Uncharted 3 is on 50 GB disc and comes close to 50gb.Unchated 2 took the full 25gb disc space.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

You're missing my point. They are 2 different types of games. Uncharted is linear and scripted while Rage is more open in nature and thus the install will help with loading times and other things you won't have to worry about. with Uncharted.

I'm not disputing that ND knows the PS3 better but this situation isn't evidence for one being better than the other.

godsman
godsman
9 years ago

Infamous has a huge open world, yet it maintains minimal install. Rage's problem is that it's made for PC, then they work around for PS3.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Thank you for at least bringing up a somewhat similar game. Infamous is open world but not comparable to the size and detail Rage is supposedly set to offer.

Look just because a game doesn't require an install doesn't mean any game that does must be inferior or be an example of the developers being unable to properly code for the PS3.

dual soul
dual soul
9 years ago

Eurogamer recently had an interview with Id software. They mentioned how Sony doesn't usually allow game installs to be this big, but made an exception for Rage. Much of the 8Gb install is for high quality textures. They opted for this in order to "install all the textures to the highest level."

Qubex
Qubex
9 years ago

Kiryu, LV is right. In addition ID have employed new streaming and texturing technology called Mega-Texturing. This means that the whole map is a canvas the digital artists can draw on.

Due to these huge mega textures Rage is streaming in a large amount of data all the time; and I wouldn't be at all surprised why the HD install is mandatory. To keep things coming in constantly means it needs to spool these mega textures into the game engine at a steady rate, wherever you may be in the environment.

The only reason for this huge install is primarily because of the streaming tech employed and the huge mega textures that need to be brought in in real time during gameplay…

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

___________
___________
9 years ago

yes a linear as hell game is allot larger and needs more space then a open world game……
sigh, dude i suggest you stop before you embarrass yourself!

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
9 years ago

Anon,
Actually, ND have stated that they're shooting to use the full 50GB this time around. Obviously, I get the feeling that this will have much to do with highly scripted sequences and real setpiecey moments, like UC2 and GoW3. Nevertheless, UC3 will indeed take up more space on disc than Rage, despite said space being used in radically different ways.

aaronisbla
aaronisbla
9 years ago

_____ suggesting someone stops before they embarrass themselves….wow

But LV is pretty spot on

godsman
godsman
9 years ago

When i said Rage being on PC then work around for PS3, I meant that they are used to installing 10gigs to hard drive. They do not plan on working around using clever techniques to load the textures like in PS3 leading games.

–Uncharted 2 used prerecorded cutscenes that were played between each chapters to avoid loading screens. Thats why loading the first chapter takes forever but not after you watch a cutscene.
–God of War series are used to creating long boring hallways, to buy time for textures to load in the large, detailed rooms.
–Ratchet and Clank:ACIT plays a funny cutscene while the game installs 1.5 gigs to the hard drive.

These are examples of intelligent techniques to increase performances. PC-based multi platform games does not use this, due to the complexity of creating a different method to load screens for each platform.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

The problem they have is that streaming that quantity of data off the BluRay creates an issue because of the size of the files. It potentially creates situations where the player can get ahead of the game as it attempts to stream the texture data from the BluRay. Certainly for the 360, they have to cache the texture data to the HDD because of the multiple discs. It may be (as has been the case before) that the multi-disc requirement of the 360 causes a design change in the game to load textures from the HDD. That change then makes it's way into the PS3 version, so even if it was possible to stream the textures from the BluRay, it will still be cached to the HDD because the game's architectural design (resulting from the 360 compromise) demands it.

That said, Burnout Paradise originally streamed everything from the BluRay, but with the high speeds of the cars, there wre issues when driving at very high speeds you could actually get ahead of the stream of world data and the game would hiccup while the texture data was loaded. this happened a lot with online racing, and eventually Criterion started to cache the data to the HDD during play so that once the data was cached it was read from the HDD. It was essentially a stealth install though, because once on the HDD, the texture/world data was read from there instead of the BluRay.

Still, if ID only cached the essential texture data to the HDD, they could probably reduce the install size on the PS3, but I suspect that the game engine and design is similar on PS3 and 360 and the 360 needs the HDD install to cope with the multiple disc delivery.

Ignitus
Ignitus
9 years ago

The reason is the Ps3's bluray drive slow data tranfer speed relative to a 12x DVD drive data transfer speed.

A 2x BluRay drive like the one found in the PS3 has a data transfer rate of 8MBps while a 12x DVD drive (like the one on the 360) has a data transfer rate of 16.5MBps. As you can see, eventough the Bluray has more space it transfers data at half the speed the 360 DVD does.

Third party developers rely on the faster HDD to stream the required data into the game because reading it from the BluRay is very slow.

This is the reason third party games like the Saint's Row 2, Resident Evil 5, Fallouts and Bioshocks have 5GB mandatory installs on PS3 while on the 360 there is no need to install because the developers are able to stream the data directly from the optical media fast enough.

Kain81
Kain81
9 years ago

i heard the PS3 version has the Super texture pack from the PC-version, wich will be released as a DLC for PC, but the PS3 version has it already on the Blu-Ray disc, but you must install it…

This could be a false information, cause of now there is no evidence for this.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Ignitus, by spec the data transfer rate of 1X BluRay is 36 MBits/second, and according to spec the nominal transfer rate of a 2X BD player is 72MBits/second, although they say that it's more like 54MBits/second in practice – which is good since it's required for 1080p playback with lossless audio.

So, I'm not sure where your anemic data transfer rate numbers come from, but they are *wrong*.

Ignitus
Ignitus
9 years ago

High, it's you who is wrong. I'm surprised someone as tech savy as you claim to be didn't see it.

In my post I was using MBps (MegaBytes) units of measure but if you want me to I will use Mbps (Megabits)so you can understand it better.

2x BluRay 72Mbps = 8MBps.
12x DVD 132Mbps = 16.5MBps.

As you can see, developers have half the data transfer rate so they will transfer the data to the HDD to get it fast enough into memory.

I thought it was clear from the begining because I used the correct casing to differentiate MBps to Mbps. Hope it's clear now.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Ugh! That's why I always specify Bytes or Bits because those two terms have become so confused over time. My apologies.

DjEezzy
DjEezzy
9 years ago

totally agree. it is getting a tad ridiculous. i dont mind installing some games either but for instance, rage is just too damn much.

Stabs88
Stabs88
9 years ago

WKCII had a pretty big install I believe. Once it said it had to install the game I just walked away for half-hour

Cpt_Geez
Cpt_Geez
9 years ago

Yeah I agree that these mandatory installs are getting out of hand. Even the patches are getting old soon as I get a new game then it has an automatic update plus install ugh.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

I see them as nothing more then a slight inconvenience because I usually install my games during dinner or when I am doing something else.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

I don't have a problem with this if it means faster load times ingame and smoother gameplay. I have plenty of room on my main PS3 and that is counting 52PSN titles, 61 PS1 titles, 1 PS3 title(Infamous), and a large amount of game data. I don't count the Minis since they are so small in size.

By now if you game a lot I would think you'd have invested in a 500+ gig harddrive since they're incredibly cheap and easy to install.

Mr Bubbles IGR
Mr Bubbles IGR
9 years ago

I've been looking to get a new harddrive in my 80GB motorstorm ps3. What harddrive would you recommend that would be easy for a somewhat non-tech guy to install, i.e. so i dont have to reformat from ntfs to fat32. Would like a harddrive at least 320GB

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

This would give you enough space for the lifetime of your PS3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152291

This is cheaper and still offers plenty of room.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136197

frylock25
frylock25
9 years ago

jonah dont worry about having to format the hdd. the ps3 will do it automatically. the only time you have to worry about it is if it is an external drive. since you cannot play games off of an external drive its only good for backing up and storing files you dont need right away. some video content, music and pics will work from it most likely.

Cesar_ser_4
Cesar_ser_4
9 years ago

also Jonah, you might want to use a ratchet instead of a screw driver when changing the screws, I did that with mine and they came off really easy.

Mr Bubbles IGR
Mr Bubbles IGR
9 years ago

Thank you so much for the help. I'm down to about 10 gigs and the 8gig that RAGE takes kinda got me thinking to upgrade. I've already deleted everything that i want to. So thanks ^_^

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Exactly. What I find annoying, are those games that play entirely off the blu-ray and I have to wait, and wait, and wait and wait for that damn disk drive to be done, thinking, "I got a hard drive, why don't you USE IT damnit!".

Unigumo
Unigumo
9 years ago

Isn't the install there to decrease load times? If its on the system then the game can access the data quickly. I don't mind the installing and it beats having to swap discs while in the middle of playing.

Neo_Aeon666
Neo_Aeon666
9 years ago

If you are refering to the 360 with disc swapping, dont forget that that is not the only bad thing about not installing. They will get longuer load times and lesser performances if they dont install.

Only reason it is not mandatory on their system is because they sell stupid 4gb arcades and if they want all systems to be able to play they cant force it XD

Snorge
Snorge
9 years ago

Annoyed the hell out of me when I first put Resistance 3 in……

TrophyHunter
TrophyHunter
9 years ago

When I put resistance 3 it asks me to download a 600 MB update, and when it was installed I needed to install game data, It was a very long wait for a very good game.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago
Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Thanks for the link. I had no idea these existed. My 500gb HDD only has about 200gb left. I will be upgrading again here soon. ūüôā

CONTRABAND
CONTRABAND
9 years ago

I remember reading something when the PS3 first came out that it was a bad idea to have anything larger then 500gb due to the power and heat. but that was years ago. i would love to get a 1TB in my day one 60gb, have a 300gb right now.

Killa Tequilla
Killa Tequilla
9 years ago

Gt5… 10gb including updates…

bebestorm
bebestorm
9 years ago

Im not bothered by the installs I just find something to do while I wait. It would be fun if they would have a mini game while it loads.

alnemozac
alnemozac
9 years ago

Ben is your problem the length of time that you will have to wait to install Rage? Or is it the sheer demand on the hard drive space that games like Rage have?

Personally the length of time an install takes can be annoying, I think how Metal Gear Solid dealt with it was good (spacing it out over the game rather than waiting for an hour or so for the thing to install) but other games don't do it so well, and sitting there with a game installing for 20 – 30 min. But the benefit is quicker load times during the game which isn't such a bad thing.

On the other hand if it's the demand on your ps3's hard drive it does suck to have your HDD fill up quickly with game installs and downloads, but think of the poor sods who purchased a 40 or 20 GB ps3. Not good when Rage would take up 20% of your hard drive (close to 50% on the 20 Gig ones). But the forethought of Sony is very good on this front as it is relatively simple to upgrade the hard drive, which is what I have had to do twice as bigger hard drives become available (I now have a 40 GB ps3 with a 500 GB hard drive installed).

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Pretty sure I answer your question in the article.

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
9 years ago

I could care less about the install. It's a pretty common thing on the PS3 and usually when it's installing I'll read something. I read the article on IGN and a lot of comments were nothing but people throwing a big fit about it.

I have a 320gb drive right now but plan on upgrading to a TB soon. I'm actually down to 100gb on mine right because all the games I have on it.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Does a 1TB 2.5 Sata Drive even exist?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

750GB definitely does, I think that one of the makers does have a 1TB drive, but I'm not sure it's thin enough for the PS3 despite being 2.5 inches wide.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Yes there is a 1tb 2.5 available and it fits in a PS3. It's on newegg. I'd share the link but my comment would need approval.


Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 9/25/2011 11:44:49 PM

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
9 years ago

Ya there's a bunch on Amazon for around $100. Only thing I've just read about now is that the 1tb drives are just a little to thick and you would have to remove the HDD tray it sits in. So I'll probably just get a 500gb now since I don't want to modify my system.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Daze, Newegg offers a 1tb 2.5 harddrive that fits in the PS3. I've already shared the link for it on this thread under a different user's post but it's still waiting for approval (I really wish we could submit helpful links without waiting hours for approval).

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
9 years ago

I saw your link LV. Just wondering if you have used the TB or now somebody that has because everywhere I see on the net people say the TB drive are just a tad thicker. I don't want to order the drive and then find out I have to mod my PS3 for it to fit.

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
9 years ago

I saw your link LV. Just wondering if you have used the TB or now somebody that has because everywhere I see on the net people say the TB drive are just a tad thicker. I don't want to order the drive and then find out I have to mod my PS3 for it to fit.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
9 years ago

Daze,

I don't personally know anyone that uses it but I've talked to several fellow gamers that use it and it does indeed fit. You'll also see multiple reviews on Newegg for it that mention it fitting in a PS3. I believe the most recent review mentions this so have no fear.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Daze,

The 1Tb drive looks like it will fit, It was about a year ago that the 750s became available and thin enough, it's no surprise that the 1TB drives are thin enough now, I just hadn't seen the specific drive LV has linked to. The early 1TB 2.5 drives were a tad thicker than these which made them harder to install.