Ben-DutkaIn our industry, when a game receives mediocre reviews, it really hurts. At the same time, all sorts of titles can become smash successes (regardless of hype) if the critics get behind it.
Now, we all know one thing: when the White Knight Chronicles II reviews start hitting the Internet later this week and into next, you're going to see the same "complaint" quite a bit: "it's just more of the same." Furthermore, you'll hear implications and flat-out statements that say the game is "old-fashioned" or "behind the times" in one way or another.
This is a guarantee. It's going to happen. And we've talked about the effect here at PSXE before; it must have a definite impact on developers. Game makers always look at what's popular because they want to produce something that sells. Even if they remain committed to their original vision(s), they're going to implement various factors that they believe the majority will enjoy. And when the majority of critics are telling you that your game is outdated, and telling the public that we've "advanced" beyond certain mechanics, the result is inevitable: less traditional JRPGs.
Granted, the quality in some JRPGs just doesn't cut it these days. But then again, how do we know what we would've seen if reviewers hadn't worked to squeeze out that style of gameplay? In truth, they've never really liked it and only gave it a free pass when it came to Final Fantasy , so it's not exactly surprising to see 6s for games like White Knight Chronicles II . Of course, that isn't turn-based but it's similar to Final Fantasy XII , which of course is "outdated." Constant real-time twitching is all anybody wants, apparently, and the critics don't appear to be helping.
Related Game(s): White Knight Chronicles II
Couldn't agree with you more. It's sad to see the genre of games I enjoy the most not being dominate anymore. This generation is really the only one without a lot of jrpgs, and the truth is probably be the same for the next generation. 🙁
It's not that it's not dominant, it's that it's damn near dead tanks to Microsoft and a legion of moronic western gaming media types and reviewers who think that the whole world should be shooting each other online.
I think there is just not a lot of jrpgs on home consoles and maybe the PSP, but they have plenty on the DS.
i think its a fad really, by next gen Im sure rpgs will be back to where they were. Also WK C DOES do something different… how many JRPGs that arent mmorpgs can you name that have online multilayer? I cant name more than 5 (dragon quest 10 looks good.. why cant that be a ps3 game….)
Ben, I agree with you. For some reason for the White Knight Chronicles series, Eurogamer rated the first game an 8/10 and the second one 5/10. I checked both reviews (with were polarized) and noticed that they were written by two different people. It makes me wonder why Eurogamer didn't just simply made the person who reviewed the first one review the second game, as well.
+1 for that Golden Sun avatar. That was a good RPG
There could be many reasons for that, Aura. Maybe the first reviewer doesn't write for them any more, or Eurogamer thought he rated the first too high – after all the metascore of WKC is 66%.
It's not the review sites main goal to rate every release as high as possible.
Don't defend it beamboom, all you're doing is excusing BS and enabling it. The metascore is meaningless, the score that matters is gamer satisfaction and in general among gamers that actually played the game, satisfaction is very high. Sadly though, that score is not measured or published.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 9/6/2011 9:34:09 AM
Highlander, I agree with you. And yeah, I don't know why the gamers' reviews are not posted yet considering that Europe already has WKCII released.
Exactly Highlander, well said.
@Highlander; You know I always prefer to take the opposite stance 🙂
But seriously, I'm not so sure if the average player satisfaction is that high for wkc. Some, yes, but the majority? I don't know…
As you may recall I was not particularly impressed with it (although I did find it charming). My coop buddy didn't even get past the tutorial before he traded it in (something that pretty much left me out in the cold too, since this was supposed to be played coop).
I know of only one other buddy who has/had it, but I don't think I've seen him play it much at all.
Not that this makes any statistics to base anything on. Not at all. I'm just saying that I seriously doubt that the game has *that* high general gamer satisfaction.
And when no less than 57 independent game sites gives an average of 66% with a huuuge majority of them rating it within the 60-75% range I don't think it is right to just label it as bullshit.
But listen: It's *nothing* wrong in belonging to a minority! Not at all! Why even worry about what others may or may not think about it. You love it, so treasure it!
Who cares if most of them "out there" just don't get it. I think we've already stated that there is no such thing as a universially perfect game anyways. 🙂
Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 11:01:49 AM
Beamboom, I couldn't care less about the Metascore. I don't buy into arguing the opposite for the sake of it, nor do I know whether your friends that you say tried the game had any previous history with JRPGs, nor do I really care. I'm not in a mood to pick this kind of thing apart at the persona preference level because in truth, this is really a discussion that's not limited to WKC, but covered the entire JRPG genre.
Your own comments already in this article display how you feel about the JRPG genre, so there's very little point you and I discussing or arguing any point because a) we'll disagree, and b) I'll get annoyed by a generalization – as I already have.
I think that is probably right, Highlander. Good call. Case closed. 🙂
(but those friends of mine has no jrpg experience from before. Just fyi. There are many, many gamers who are new to jrpgs out there!)
Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 12:20:19 PM
no the lack of next gen graphics in a jrpg is contributing to their decline. All we need is a jrpg that has all the classic goodies and good graphics and they will make their triumphant return
You can't honestly believe it's the lack of good graphics. FFXIII had amazing graphics.
It's the gameplay and the disappearance of traditional combat mechanics, as any JRPG fan will tell you.
The square fingers in FF13 kinda turned me off..
ffxiii wasnt a jrpg
@World
Oh, come on. You know that it still was an RPG. Well, in a very mangled sense. maybe that's why most of us have this unease when it comes to the title?
i think btnwarrior is on to something. outside of ff13(which scored much higher than most jrpg's this gen) the production values in other jrpgs has been lacking. i don't think wkc even looks like a next gen game. while it can be argued rpgs aren't all about graphics i would argue back that in the past the production values in jrpg's were once sky high and was part of their appeal.
like the other poster said, if we are holding up wkc as the flagship of hd jrpg gaming then it's us that has the problem not the reviewers.
as was stated before me FF13 wasn't a traditional JRPG, and I bet you can't name one traditional JRPG from this generation that has good graphics
BTN: It has nothing to do with graphics. Critics haven't been roundly hating on the sub-genre for many years because of a lack of graphical polish. Period.
No offense, but that's a BS excuse. WKC has very good graphics, as does WKC2. It doesn't have the flashy production values of FFXIII, but then how many games do? You're buying into this BS about them being somehow inferior and out of date.
If we consider graphics the ultimate scoring factor, then why the hell did GTAIV, RDR, or CoD do so well?
Talk about your double standards, guys.
Gameplay is ALWAYS the main priority.
Don't talk like WKC was awful. It wasn't groundbreaking, sure, but it wasn't awful. Water effects, for example, were done very well in that game.
Block fingers is also hardly a reason to discount FFXIII's technical prowess. Graphically, that game was top notch.
@BTN
That's hardly fair. I can barely name a traditional jRPG at ALL, let alone one that has revolutionary graphics. Additionally, don't act like that's the major factor. It's only a major issue if the graphics are bad.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 9/6/2011 10:11:30 AM
I didn't say it that they need revolutionary graphics I'm just saying that they need to have next gen graphics, I mean WKC doesn't even look as good as COD. People will pay attention to a game that looks good, what they won't pay attention to is a game that looks like a ps2 game in HD.
They are two completely different genre of game, they look utterly dissimilar because they are utterly dissimilar. It's difficult to compare apples and oranges and say that apples are inferior because they don't look like oranges. But that's precisely what you're doing.
If you are going for realism, then of course CoD is better as WKC isn't going for realistic images. It aims for artistic images.
It terms of in-game effects, I think WKC does better. CoD's environments are very pixely (although WKC is as well when the camera is up close to, say, a tree), and when you compare something that -is- similar, like water, for example, WKC looks much better. The water in Balastor Plain, for example, is MUCH better and much prettier than the water in MW2.
As Highlander said, apples and oranges… hard to compare completely different stylings. One thing is for sure, though… CoD4, for example, is weak-sauce graphically. Many PS2 games were better than that. The more recent CoD's are minimum industry standard, as far as I'm concerned. Compared to Gears, Halo, Killzone, and many more, CoD just doesn't compete.
Yet… people seem to enjoy it the most. Clearly, there is something more to gaming than graphics.
When I got a PS3 I got it thinking I would play all the great JRPG series from before only with a graphical upgrade and bigger worlds.
Instead, so far there are no JRPGs because what they do have has been diluted and for some reason shrunk to menus and stuff.
I got news for the critics, CoD doesn't change much either. I'm set in my ways and just want the old awesomeness back. We LIKE our games the way they were.
+1 I agree.
I was also thinking the same thing when I bought mine…
Play WKC.
@Highlander
You didn't hear? World will be joining us in WKC2.
Awesome.
😀
Wait wait… wait? Is there a party on WKC that the members here are having. o.o? I wouldn't mind joining that party, but I also need to buy WKC.
Oh yes! You can join as many guilds as you want, if you have other friends you want to play with. So join them, AND us!
But we -are- having a PSXE guild. Only requirement is that you're a member here! ^.^ Doesn't matter about skill level. Lots of knowledgeable people here who are good at the game that provide friendly advice on how to advance and level your character.
Once WKC2 is released, shortly after we'll make a guild and post it in the forums.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 9/6/2011 10:54:02 AM
Definitely.
The thing I absolutely love about the way WKC handles it's online play is that it's completely co-op. No head to head or deathmatch or anything remotely like that. There are always people around who are helpful and willing to help new players.
As for the guild, as soon as I get my copy of WKC2, and the DLC makes the guilds available, I shall invest in one…
That's freakin' fantastic, you can count me in.
I have a question though; If you buy WKC2 does it come with the copy of WKC1? Or do you have to pre-order to get the first game with WKC2?
That's the part that kind of got me confused.
Last edited by Clamedeus on 9/6/2011 11:38:15 AM
White knight chronicles 2 includes the story from White knight chronicles 1, you play the entire story from start to finish as one game, so yes, 2 includes 1.
If you already have 1 all your georama stuff, your avatar, your equipment, items and money come over with you to the new game. The things that don't are your equipment enhancements, your levels past level 35, and the check-marks on your binding list.
Ah, ok gotcha. I can't wait to play with you guys on WKC. Which games are you guys playing on first? I haven't played WKC1 as I'm waiting for Sept 13th to get the game with the original.
Those that are still playing WKC1 will all switch to WKC2 when it arrives. Just hit us in the forums and get a PSN ID or two.
Alrighty sounds like a plan, I'm thinking about playing through the SP for WKC1 first before i go online though so it might take awhile.
yay, count me in too 🙂
No worries. I'm sure I'll want to finish the SP story of WKC2 first as well. Should be good!
I'll have the game day 1, whether or not I'm able to play it much is another matter entirely.
I wish I could contribute to the day one sales of WKC2 like I did for he first but with university starting the only game im investing in between now and Christmas is Uncharted 3 🙁
I figure I can still get some weekend time in with WKC2 between studies 🙂
I dont trust myself that much 😛
Well screw the critics. Im pumped for dark souls
…that's not exactly the kind of JRPG we're talking about, even if it's made by a Japanese developer.
"Constant real-time twitching is all anybody wants, apparently, and the critics don't appear to be helping." -> This is the consensus of what so many of you guys keep claiming but the way I see it it's just not right!
Look at the most sold and critically praised releases just this year: LA Noire, Portal 2, DE: Human Revolution, even ME2 while it's action focused battles the rest of the game is anything but twitchy! Or LBP, it can hardly be called twitchy with the focus on user created content?
That's a good share of this years *top* rated, *top* sold games right there!
And on top of that, Limbo is the highest rated PSN game this year!
Yes the market is flooded by a lot of simple, fast paced racing/fighting/shooter style games. But haven't it always been like this, proportionally speaking?
I believe the cause for this is just as much due to the mere fact that it's the simplest and cheapest to design and develop. Every 3D engine on the market is built to handle shooters. So you get a lot "for free" if you design your new game to be a simple shooter.
Again, it's always been like this. The "cheap" games are in the vast majority. But the quality releases are very often anything *but* twitchy!
Just cause the jrpgs seem to be on an all time low doesn't mean that we all has turned into mindless zombies. You can't blame the reviewers either – they are still rewarding quality releases and not only twitchy games.
Last edited by Beamboom on 9/6/2011 2:08:00 AM
@beamboom
i agee with that. i think a lot of us butthurt jrpg fans just have to face the fact that the quality in jpg titles has dropped considerbly. they have not been very good at all.
all of the games you cited as critically accliamed demonstrates that reviewers and gamers alike will reward quality and depth when they see it. i don't see reviewers as the problem at all.