Well, it isn't an online pass but it's another incentive to purchase a game new rather than pre-owned.

During an interview with Eurogamer , id Software creative director Tim Willits confirmed that certain areas of RAGE would only be open to those who bought the game new. See, there are these sewer hatches scattered around the environment and you won't be able to jump in and explore if you got the game used. Basically, you'd have to pay for the privilege of checking 'em out. But Willits clarified:

"Most people never even see it. I can tell you, some people will buy Rage, download that, and still never set foot in those things. They just won't. I think that's fair. It's cool. It's outside the main path. We're not detracting from anything. But I know some consumers, when you can't avoid it, then you get a little touchy subject."

So it's not like we're losing anything, but you can bet those who often buy games used will be a little miffed. We'll have to see the game before passing judgment but for now, those sewer hatches don't sound all that significant. It's not like they're cutting out whole landscapes, ya know?

Related Game(s): RAGE

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maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

Wow. It's now going to singleplayer?

This does not look good.

Karosso
Karosso
9 years ago

This game has just become a "DNP" (Day Never Purchase).
Tim Willits, Carmack and ID can go lick themselves in a sewer for all I care.

___________
___________
9 years ago

your loss your going to miss out on one of the generations best games!

Mounce
Mounce
9 years ago

I think people are going to overreact about this. They make a 'What if' scenario as if 'What if I were to be one to buy this used' – Knowingly now, you'd know that you'd not get the full game so the company can protect themselves from the Used-Game-sales bullsh** of the gaming industry, and people like Karosso will only think selfishly as to OH BAWWWWW They're doing something to protect themselves and it's not DRM or something! And then add some immature insult towards the developers.

Karosso and to anyone else like him. Grow the fu** up. It's either you support the developer and buy their game, or you don't buy it at all, or wait til it goes to $29.99 or something. Whining about how they try to ensure less people buy used, which is to say, people buying used games, they get ZERO PROFIT when it's still their game.

Beyond that then, it goes to ________________ whom said what anyone else should say, 'Your loss', it's your fault you're whining over something so miniscule, and am sure it's people like Karosso who use these moments as a retarded excuse to say it's okay for them to pirate games to 'Fight the big bad corporations'.

Again, grow the fu** up.

Gabriel013
Gabriel013
9 years ago

Mounce, I'll tell you what gets me. It the games industry whining about used game sales when no other industry does anything about it.

They should NOT be doing anything to stop it.
That is why some of us are objecting.

Support the Dev?? I'm sorry, when did they stop being just another business and become my best friend?

This is the only industry where it happens and I just cannot see why there are gamers oout there who go along with it. Would you support this restriction if it was applied in some way to ANY other industry? EVERY other industry?

Games are no different to cars or books or movies imo. They should not get a free pass on this sort of nonsense just because some gamers build a wierd personal attachment to a handful of Devs or publishers.

PAKINIPS
PAKINIPS
9 years ago

This is the way to do it

Cuetes
Cuetes
9 years ago

Gotta say this does feel like the beginning of a bad thing. I don't believe this is a good move and the more time passes the more I feel these companies need to rethink their strategy, Pennie pinching the gamer to fatten your wallet seems like bad business. I really feel companies need to be reminded of who gave them that money to build these games and who bought them, without us they are nothing.

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

let me drop some common sense a bit, if it sounds offensive, i'm not trying to. just trying to get my point across.

This isnt really penny pinching. every new copy comes with everything. from what he's saying, it seems like the sewers arent really a big deal. i'm assuming of course that the sewers are most likely just a different and faster way to travel accross the map like in other games. if you're pissed because you are getting "shafted" when you buy used. all i have to say is that you get what you paid for. you believe you're getting the shaft when you lose stuff when you buy used. however, you're basically giving the developer the shaft by purchasing the game used in the first place.

now to my main point.

"I really feel companies need to be reminded of who gave them that money to build these games and who bought them, without us they are nothing."

In this context, this statement seems like a complete joke to me. Why the hell should game devs care about you? if you buy games new, this is no problem for you. the only ones this affect are used game purchasers. The fact that you buy used means you dont support the game developers. they dont get any profit from potential customers. which means YOU arent giving the game developers money to build games at all. so basically they are favoring the customers who buy the game new, which are the people who are giving them money to build new games.


Last edited by johnld on 8/12/2011 1:31:36 PM

bearbobby
bearbobby
9 years ago

@Cuetes

If you buy the game new, not necessarily $60, just new, then you have access to the full experience including these optional areas. If you buy it used you don't get access to the optional areas, not affecting the main story at all.

How are they penny pinching? If you don't buy it new, but rather a used copy, they don't see that money at all. Maybe you need to be reminded that they don't owe you anything if you don't pay them anything.


Last edited by bearbobby on 8/12/2011 1:35:16 PM

bearbobby
bearbobby
9 years ago

johnld got there first looks like. Good on you friend.

lol

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

Johnld, is that to say you'll be upset when it's something significant?

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

johnld –

Speaking of common sense..

Sewers today, wasteland tomorrow.

Cuetes
Cuetes
9 years ago

@johnld….I understand perfectly whats going on, I can read. Second your common sense is two headed, that is to say devs don't owe me but I don't owe them either. As far as the rest of your comments I choose to see it my way and ignore yours:) I buy games new all the time, my point ( which totally went passed your head) is simple, it start here and ends with you paying for every small thing, because of what? Are devs starving or something? So why should I care if they don't get jack from a resold item?
@maxpontaic……glad to see somebody was truly looking at common sense.

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

@clair
yes, i believe i would be upset if they have taken out significant things, who wouldnt. however this situation doesnt really affect me because i buy new. i dont have to buy the game day 1 but i still buy it new when it goes on sale. my problem was with the statement cuetes made about companies needing to learn where the money comes from to pay for building games. he made the comment on an article that says if you buy new, you get access to this extra stuff. however, the only ones that would really be affected with this decision are the people who buy used games. these are the people that buy the games but doesnt support the developer financially. so in basically, its like a person who buys used games telling the developers that i buy your games so i'm entitled to whatever you make. however, none of the money he used to buy the game went to the developers. although i have to say that they shouldve gave more detail on what we will miss without the sewers.

@maxpontiac
i'm not an english major but i believe sewers and wasteland are completely different by definition. so if you're saying that the sewers can become part of a wasteland, it could be true. but in this situation, the wasteland and sewers in the game seem to be different locations.

@cuetes
if you buy your games new, you get the full experience. my point was that the ones affected by this decision are the used game buyers. when you said that they need to learn where the money are coming from to build these games, it started to fall apart. when you look at it objectively, if you buy a used game, it doesnt help the videogame industry. by the way when i say videogame industry, i'm talking about the flow between the developers and customers who actually support them by buying new copies. you can basically see used game customers as leeches in this industry. No offense to anyone by the way, just trying to come up with a visual. they enjoy the benefits in the industry and sometimes expect more from it but never really contribute to it. when people buy used, they get to enjoy a product that the developers worked so hard to create. however, the way they see it is that you are a loss of a potential customers, profit wise of course.

look, if you buy new thats good for you, there shouldnt be a problem. the fact is that taken from the article, they arent charging you for the sewers. when you buy the game new, you get access to the sewer section, nothing lost. i understand what your worried about, that they're going to start cutting more and more from the game just to "fight used game sales". but the thing is that most of the people that will have a problem with this are the ones who buy used games. you cant really say that the money they get to build their games comes from you if you are buying games used. fact is that devs dont get anything from that used purchase.

"Are devs starving or something? So why should I care if they don't get jack from a resold item?"

Theres a problem right there. Do you really believe that they all have huge amounts of resources to keep making videogames? i guess you havent heard of development studios closing left and right recently.

why should you care if the devs dont get jack from a resold item? really…. are you blind or just choosing not to see it. cost of game development is going up, ben even touched on it on the last psxextreme home video. These costs are what game sales are used to cover. every used game sales to them is lost profit. profit that they can use to either cover the cost of development or funding/improving their next game. first party developers may get funding from companies like sony but third party devs mostly have to do it on their own.

think of it this way devs make their game, customers buy the game, dev gets profit and makes more/better games, and the cycle continues resulting in better/more games. the used game market is like a leak in this cycle. developers makes games, customers buy it, profit leaks out due to used game sales, devs lose money making a game so they need to cut back on things, cycle continues until the development studio closes.

i just have to stay, i have no problem is people buying used games at all. my problem mainly the entitlement that people feel while buying used. They want all these things but does nothing to support it. kinda like people in politics who say they want this and that but dont even bother to vote but gets pissed if the results dont favor what they want. this is just a comparison by the way, i really dont like talking politics but seems like a good comparison. i hate politics.


Last edited by johnld on 8/12/2011 4:05:54 PM

mastiffchild
mastiffchild
9 years ago

Look, I'm a musician and I lose out top piracy every day of the week-and it's still as bad as theft because if someone gets your stuff for free they won't then buy it so lets not have semantics over that one. However, if someone has bought my CD and doesn't feel they want to keep it I should have made a better recording to begin with. Simple as that and the same for game developers and used game sales, online passes and this BS too.

I'm sure most of us prefer, as do I, to buy games new but, also, i'm certain many of us have been in dire financial straights from, time to time when we couldn't have stayed in touch with gam,es had we nopt been able top get used games. Used games profit developers in two ways as I see it-they kleep existing gamers gaminmg when otherwise they might leave during tight times for more inclusive hobbies and they also allow kids to become fans of developers and these kids are the big game buyers of tomorrow too-don't tell me that used salwes hurt gaming any more than someone selling on my CD hurts mde yet not once have I heard an industry figure do anything LIKE say "well, should've made a game they wanted to keep!".

As for this particular shenanigan-it might effect what your GS/trophy is at the end of the game and also makes the poor gamer feel left out of the loop which might alienate them against THJIS dev or even against gaminbg which is an expensive hobby to start with. Other industries complain WAY, WAY less about used sales than gaming and some of the ways they're going about this is just going to excuse more piracy in the long run. "the industry is just greedy and rips us all off when they can! Why shouldn't we pirate games?"-this is what moves like this allow pirates to say and also makes used game buyers feel close to criminal when they're just, often, victims of circumstance and finance.

Another thing: iD are charging to go in the sodding sewers? THAT'S the bonus for buying new?? Why not go the whole hog and have dockyard DLC with loads of crates!! Seriously, SEWERS? Haven't we kind of done sewers already? Kind of makes me feel I'll buy it used just to avoid a cliche! O)therwise I just think all this stuff to combat used sales is short sighted and will be very counterproductive and lead to fewer future core gamers and fewer ardent fans of great developers who give in to their greed and don't pick up the challenge of making experiences so good we might want to keep them, like other industries would do without crying about it all the damn time. Poor, poor devs!

Loads of my gaming mates recently got made redundant from the local shipyard and now they can no longer afford new games they're forced to feel like criminals just to stay in touch with their hobby? And if it's "no big deal" why bother anyway? I think publishers and developers have some skewed idea about who buys used games because it's generally poor people who won't have the cash for a new game and thus won't magic up the money for an online pass etc just because Insomniac or EA want them to. They'll just buy something else or move away from gaming.

dual soul
dual soul
9 years ago

My main problem is the fact that these areas have to be downloaded. If you don't have access to the internet, you are effectively being punished even if you buy the game new.

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
9 years ago

The more I hear about companies battling against the pre-owned industry, the more furious I get, Youd don't see film or music companies getting angry and they have been affected far more than the gaming industry with pirated and used goods.

Personally I think full retail is a joke, its 3 times as much as a music Cd or Film. I simple cannot afford money on a new game everytime, infact I only buy certain games I am obbssed with like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Tekken and so on. most other games I wait for a price reduction.

What really gets my goat is that they expect you to pay full retail price, when most of the time they hide DLC until a later date, so when it comes to people buying games used I can only see it as fair nowadays.

As for RAGE… I won't lie I don't care for it, so in light of this event I hope it flops.

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

What will you do when the next major Tekken games have playable characters locked out from play if it's purchased used? Hmmmm hmmmm?

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
9 years ago

What you mean like Mortal Kombat? Well one of Tekkens new gimmicks is is massive roaster, so I dont think it will happen with that series.

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

Devil Paul and Jungle Law you know you'll want 'em =p

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
9 years ago

good point ultima. what makes games so special they are allowed to double dip? i think it is just arrogant presumption by the publishers. what about the people who do not even have the internet? i thought about that a lot when i was trying to redeem my damn mass effect 2 code for 4 days. ea had the comic and all the add on missions locked out by the stupid code. you are missing out on many hrs of gameplay without that code.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

I knew it! I just *knew* this whole online pass idea was going to affect single player games too, not just multiplayer. The single player devs would want a piece of the pay too. I just knew it.

This is indeed only the beginning and it is *not* to our advantage, no matter what kind of gamer you are or how you twist and turn it. It just isn't!


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/12/2011 12:53:03 PM

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
9 years ago

@beamboom

no kidding. i hate to qoute myself but back on the ubisoft jumps in the online pass thread i said: "i have a strong feeling this online pass system won't end at the multiplayer. it's only a matter of time before it makes its way into sp experience."

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

I know, Excelsior! This is one giant "what DID we say". This has nothing to do with online gaming or maintainance costs or whatnot, this has to do with greed, plain and simple. They are doing it because they can.
The technology is there so it is only *one* challenge left: To gain our acceptance.


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/12/2011 3:29:26 PM

Qubex
Qubex
9 years ago

Pretty disgusting… I guess they like to insult their customers and make us feel like idiots… I am sorry… the online pass was already a stretch… Probably best if they never mentioned anything like this…

I guess Rage will enrage a few people…

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"


Last edited by Qubex on 8/12/2011 1:11:14 PM

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

So f-ing lame! I absolutely HATE the idea of single player content being locked online. It makes more sense for MP because in order to play multiplayer you have to have an online connection anyways. But with single player, anyone who doesn't have an Internet connection gets screwed. Locking SP content is a horrible idea, and one that will probably catch on. This was a game I was very interested in. Now, I'll think about it at bargain bin.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

Of course closing off the sewers, while sounding harmless, will in all likelihood house some advanced weaponry or armor.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Next time it's just some minor "boring" side quests that "no one really wanna do anyway". So it goes. Slowly, but surely.


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/12/2011 3:16:21 PM

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

All of the world owes me to do things my way. I dont care if it's business. I'm entitled. I used to be able to get full games used, therefore I should ALWAYS be able to get full games used. Any deviation from this model is an ATTACK against me and how I want things. I'll scream and shout all I can about how Id sooner quit playing games before being a victim of economic adaptation. That is, until I realize my worthless efforts at upholding my offenses will eventually succumb to paying and doing whatever is asked of me, because, in the end, I'm ultimately playing games for the entertainment I'm hooked on.


Last edited by Temjin001 on 8/12/2011 1:17:16 PM

WolfCrimson
WolfCrimson
9 years ago

The moral of the story is, a sense of entitlement doesn't get you anything, but thinking straight does. And in this case, thinking straight tells me this is a pretty disgusting move by the guys behind RAGE.

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

Companies enjoy customers like you. :/

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
9 years ago

i must stand with temjin on this. games should never get segmented in this way. i agree with the poster above who said dnp(day never purchase). never liked carmack or id, anyways. they've never shown much rrespect for the ps3 platform.

i told you guys it would only be a matter of time before this bs impacted sp games, too.


Last edited by Excelsior1 on 8/12/2011 1:53:03 PM

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

No they don't Claire. Because not all of their customers will whine and moan about injustice before giving them their money 😉

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

Well, sarcastically whine anyways..

DIsmael85
DIsmael85
9 years ago

Well don't we all know that devs make no money off of used games? So let's all buy used take the money away from the Devs. Oh wait look, we can't have high quality games anymore because they aren't making money. Folks it's how we get the crap we get. You know games cost money to make. If folks don't spend the money companies lose out, and then guess what. They shut their doors. Then what do we do? We complain and complain that all the good companies are making crap. We guess how that happens.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

So how can the movie business still exist then, DISmael? Or music industry? Or furniture companies? Car manufacturers? Toys, watches, houses, boats, books, tools, clothes, audio equipment, games consoles, video cameras, PCs, or *any* other manufacturer of things we trade second hand?
How can they even exist, when they don't get a share of the second hand market? Surely they must all have had to shut their doors by now, this long after Ebay was created?


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/12/2011 3:48:52 PM

DIsmael85
DIsmael85
9 years ago

@Beamboom. You know I thought about bringing up the movie business. 😛 You pose good questions there my friend, however, I don't see Warner Bros. hurting over making crappy movies since they make so many. Yeah I suppose game companies could just bring out a crap ton of games and hope to make money off of one of them and bank, but I believe the movie industry and game industry work a bit different. However, since we aren't on a movie, music, etc website I wont jump into my opinion on all that. Since this is about Rage and what the Gaming companies may do down the road with in-game content I'll stick to that. I'm not saying folks shouldn't buy games used or rent them. What I am saying is that people complaining about something you are being provided, assuming you buy the game "NEW", is weird. They are providing their customers with something for buying the game new. If you don't buy it new then you don't deserve to get what they are providing. Yeah it sounds harsh, but I don't get the awesome 10 dollar off coupon if I buy this special boxset used. (Not pin pointing that at anything in particular just saying). Buy it new, get the content, buy it used maybe purchase the content later. I doubt this content will be ground breaking, but if you really have to have it, buy it new.

I bet if you bought this game "New" on Ebay you'd get that content.


Last edited by DIsmael85 on 8/12/2011 3:54:37 PM

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

You are evading my point completely, Dismael.
Fact of the matter is this: They only do this because they can. It has nothing to do with the quality of their products. Their only focus is to milk as much out of us as technically possible. It's not like games have the smallest margins out there. Just look at what they can sell their games at and still earn money just a few months after release. This is *not* out of need, but greed.

And regarding movies, I have seen *way* more artistic integrity and fantastic creations on the silver screen over the years than I've seen from my gaming screen. To even imply that all movies are trash since they don't get a share of the second hand trading is… Well… It's beyond silly, with all due respect.


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/12/2011 4:12:20 PM

DIsmael85
DIsmael85
9 years ago

@Beamboom. Cool your jets homie. Never said movies are trash. Don't really, personally, care how many movies you have seen. That's great. I want you to take a step back for a second. As for the "need and greed" situation, I think folks are being greedy to expect a company to give give give when we feel like we don't need to give anything in return. Let's read what johnld posted. It actually sums up my feelings about this:

"Theres a problem right there. Do you really believe that they all have huge amounts of resources to keep making videogames? i guess you havent heard of development studios closing left and right recently.

why should you care if the devs dont get jack from a resold item? really…. are you blind or just choosing not to see it. cost of game development is going up, ben even touched on it on the last psxextreme home video. These costs are what game sales are used to cover. every used game sales to them is lost profit. profit that they can use to either cover the cost of development or funding/improving their next game. first party developers may get funding from companies like sony but third party devs mostly have to do it on their own.

think of it this way devs make their game, customers buy the game, dev gets profit and makes more/better games, and the cycle continues resulting in better/more games. the used game market is like a leak in this cycle. developers makes games, customers buy it, profit leaks out due to used game sales, devs lose money making a game so they need to cut back on things, cycle continues until the development studio closes.

i just have to stay, i have no problem is people buying used games at all. my problem mainly the entitlement that people feel while buying used. They want all these things but does nothing to support it. kinda like people in politics who say they want this and that but dont even bother to vote but gets pissed if the results dont favor what they want. this is just a comparison by the way, i really dont like talking politics but seems like a good comparison. i hate politics."

I'm not on here personally attacking anyone in particular. I am just giving my feedback and opinion on the article and comments. I personally see nothing wrong with id's decision to do this. You lose out on nothing if you purchase new. Please do not deviate from this. To me it only seems as if it's about grasping at thin air now.


Last edited by DIsmael85 on 8/12/2011 4:25:15 PM

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

they may still exist but they are all in decline. remember when gm, i think, was saved because of that buyout thing. i never paid much attention to it. all i remember was that they were going bankrupt and i think it was the government who decided to save them by some sort of buyout. movies, yeah, theyre in decline to. its the reason why we keep getting recycled stuff right now. theres probably a lot of cost cutting going on there too. as for toys, aside from babies, i dont see a lot of them playing toys anymore. at least not like when i was young.

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
9 years ago

@dismael

i notice you totally sidestep the question about used sales in every other industry. they are still in business. what about people who do not have their consoles hooked up to the internet? the ps3 has about 80% of its console hooked up to the internet. the 360 close to 70%. that adds up to lot of people.

most good publisher's have managed to thrive as the game business has grown. sure, it's a tough business, but the fact is very few developers that make great games are hurting for money. if they are i'm willing to bet they made poor decisions along the way. la noire 7r development cycle anyone?

hell there are game companies that don't even make good games that are still in business. finally what makes games so damn special they deserve to be exempt from part of a free market system we have?

backatcha00
backatcha00
9 years ago

I was going to purchase new, now i'm crossing it off the list. Not that my measly purchase sends any sort of message.

Claire C
Claire C
9 years ago

Well, me too so that makes 2.

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
9 years ago

count me in as well. so that's 3 who will never buy this game. it does add up you know.


Last edited by Excelsior1 on 8/12/2011 1:51:44 PM

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
9 years ago

Me 4. 😮

Him
Him
9 years ago

Me 5

matt99
matt99
9 years ago

Statistically you're right, losing one customer is not that big of a loss, but as you can see one person saying they wont buy a game can have an influence on others and pretty soon the number of lost customers becomes significant. So to stop this kind of thing from spreading to other games, we as gamers must make it loud and clear that we are not going to buy products with these kinds of restrictions. If a big enough stink is made then gaming companies may re-think some of these scams.

…oh and me 6


Last edited by matt99 on 8/12/2011 3:09:50 PM

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

Count me in: 7

What else can we do… At least we can say we tried. No matter how hopeless an attempt. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/12/2011 3:11:25 PM

ColTater
ColTater
9 years ago

I'll still rent it.

Crabba
Crabba
9 years ago

Me 8! I will NEVER support this type of behavior, and as we can all see, as long as people go along with it and don't take a stand, it's only going to get worse!!

Give them a finger, and they'll take your hand, that's how it works.