I shudder to think what might happen in the Comments section if a homosexual/heterosexual war should erupt. But that won't happen, right?

Dragon Age II allows for less freedom than some RPG purists would like, but the player can still make all sorts of choices. One of those choices involves the aforementioned sexual orientation question, and some straight male gamers are apparently a little upset at the sexual trends in Thedas. A poster at the BioWare forums has a lengthy complaint entitled, "BioWare Neglected Their Main Demographic: The Straight Male Gamer," and it's best summarized by the following words:

"It makes things very awkward when your male companions keep making passes at you. The fact that a 'No Homosexuality' option, which could have been easily implemented, is omitted just proves my point."

In response, here's what DAII writer David Gaider had to say:

"The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant… and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else. The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else."

Feel free to read everything through the link above; what's your take on the matter? As someone who likes DAII and has been playing for some time, I do admit to feeling a little uncomfortable when the first two possibilities for romance came from a male, but it didn't exactly keep me awake nights. In short, I'm just going to side with "over-reaction."

Related Game(s): Dragon Age II

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maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

In the first Dragon Age, I refused to initiate a homosexual relationship.

Didn't purchase the second one..

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Think this kind of stuff is pretty unnecessary in games. What's the point? Final Fantasy games got along for 3 console generations and never had crap like this it them. I want to play games to get away from this crazy world from time to time. Not be to propagated with lifes inadequacies. But too each his own I guess.

Though Fable III had some pretty homoerotic moments in it as well with the man on man embrace dancing and hand holding. Why didn't anyone complain about that game?

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

Technically in FF7 you can get cloud to take any character on a date, including the male characters.

Just saying.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

There was nothing homoerotic about that though. You weren't "starting a relationship" or embracing Barret in Clouds arms. That was meant as a joke and it was quite funny at the time even for a 16 year old kid. This is just ridiculous and meant for cheap shock value.

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

As for FF I know, I just had to throw it out there because you specifically mentioned final fantasy.

As for this though, I really don't think bioware did it for shock value, I think whether we like it or not it's a part of the world we live in.

As you said, it's in Fable and no one complained there, which actually surprises me because usually people who make a big deal out of this kinda stuff are always looking for an opportunity to rant and rave.

Oxvial
Oxvial
9 years ago

MS Exclusives always get a VIP treat ;), of course you aren't going to hear complains.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

You do have a point. What is the point of sex in games anyways?

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

I don't know Max. I find it pointless either way you lean. Straight or hetero. Same with movies. Movies like 300 and Watchmen are two of my favorite movies but I found the raunchy sex scenes pointless, silly and that they greatly devalued the movies in my eyes.

TheAgingHipster
TheAgingHipster
9 years ago

I think it depends on the game. Heavy Rain, for example, was all about the drama, so the potential sex scene had a place in the overall story and character development and didn't feel like something just tacked on for shock value and sales. In Mass Effect, where it's all about developing your own Shepard and letting them be who you want them to be, again, the romance scenes serve a purpose, especially if you romance an ongoing character like Liara. But in games like this, yeah, I can see how it could be considered to devalue the game a bit.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

I supposed if a director or developer feels the need to include a sex to further advance the narrative if done in a classy way I wouldn't find it objectionable. I didn't find the sex scene in Heavy Rain to be objectionable or too over the top. I haven't played Mass Effect so I can't speak to that but its scenes like the one in the Watchmen that I find completely unnecessary and silly to watch. hahaha

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

I don't see how sex in a game or a movie does anything but attract attention. Most people are smart enough to figure out what is going to happen.

Maybe I am just old fashioned. When it comes to sex, I like to experience it. Not watch it.

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
9 years ago

helaluha, ha ha. that scene was pretty over the top. decent movie. liked 300 a lot more. gerald butler was awesome in that movie. "we'll put their names to the test." awesome stuff.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

It's pretty simple, the goal of the western RPG is to give you tons of freedom while trying to hold together a decent story. This includes freedom to have a pretend relationship or not.

Because you can, it affects the overall drama when that characters personal interests get in the way of your relationship so that you have to make choices which will affect something that you chose to do in the game.

It adds to the overall depth of the story no matter how you look at it because they aren't just generic sex options unless you want them to be, they can be story altering experiences.

Milonakis
Milonakis
9 years ago

The homoeroticness in fable is to cater to the m$soft players.

Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

Jawknee said, "… straight or hetero…"

Same thing!

*snicker* Sorry bud. Just having fun with you.

^.^

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Oops. 0.o ahaha

Jalex
Jalex
9 years ago

Being a female Shepard and engaging in a romance with Liara in 'Mass Effect' is the closest I've come to exploring the homosexual options in a BioWare game. It's just not for me.
But I don't mind that they give players the choice (it's what BioWare games are all about, right?) Virtually all the companions one can recruit do and say things that I (in character and personally) don't approve of. That's just the way the game is, and the way life is really.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
9 years ago

What's the big deal? So what if Bioware decided to make the first few propositions from males? Sure, the majority of the population is straight, but that shouldn't really have any bearing on a game, particularly not if it is open choice and you get more options later on down the track.

But this makes me wonder… Has there ever been a game where the main character is homosexual, and he's trying to woo a man? Think Uncharted, but with Elena as a male. I'd be interested in seeing a dev do that, just for the giggles.
Peace.

nilos95
nilos95
9 years ago

noooo….that's a really bad example with Uncharted! One of the game's charms is the female cast!

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
9 years ago

I agree, I just meant that narrative in a different game.

ColTater
ColTater
9 years ago

Haven't played the final product, only the demo, so my question is do females make passes at your character as well with the same/equal amount of opportunities? If not, then I call the whole "rights" of anyone response bogus. If it is equal then I wouldn't see it as that much of an issue. I'm hetero, and not homophobic in anyway. Heck, I say to each their own, but I should have to same (for lack of a better word) "rights" to be able to enjoy a game without that being repetitively put in my face.

I guess if it bothered me that much though, I just wouldn't play the game anymore.


Last edited by ColTater on 3/25/2011 1:21:49 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

Yes, Equal opportunities to romance both sexes.

TheAgingHipster
TheAgingHipster
9 years ago

Yet, somehow, I imagine that the aforementioned poster would have no problem with female-female interactions.

Feh.

WolfCrimson
WolfCrimson
9 years ago

Lol, I have a feeling the response would be "2+2 > 2"

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

I'll be honest and say that I don't agree with homosexuality.

However I don't think they should have any less rights than the rest of us. Regardless of our opinions, the truth is we all have the same rights. The only way to put romance into a game is to do it fairly for everyone.

If there was only heterosexual romance, it could be seen poorly in the eyes of the homosexual community and if there were only homosexual options vice versa.

The truth is bioware wasn't trying to anger anyone, If in the game your male character gets hit on by another guy, it's not like you are required to pursue that romance. Just like you're not required to date someone of the same sex just because they ask you out.

It's a touchy subject for a lot of people, but I'm not willing to let anyone tell me who I can be with romantically, so I don't think it's my place to determine it for others.

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

Also like to point out that this is just a video game and no one is required to play it at all. Don't like it, don't play it.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

I agree with you but having games that support their behavior isn't a human rights issue and it kind of does a disservice to those who really do suffer under human rights abuses by trying to make it one or by placing it in the same category. In western countries and even most Eastern European countries, gays rights aren't abused. People need to focus their attention on the middle east and how they treat gays if they really care about making it a human rights issue.

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

I agree that it being in the game isn't a rights issue, but if they put romance in the game and didn't include homosexual options, then someone would have said they were biased against homosexuals.

If they had only put female on female homosexual relationships in the game, then someone would have claimed they were just being perverted.

Honestly when you decide to put romance into a game with options like this, you open yourself up to this type of complaint, because you'll never make everyone happy and there are always those who will make a big deal out of it.

I don't think it's an issue, but some people will always try to make it one.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Yup, there will always be complainers though I think less people would have complained had they not included the homosexual options.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

I don't have a problem with homosexual people either. However, "Tab B" fit's "Slot A", which in turn produces "Baby C"

kraygen
kraygen
9 years ago

I think you're right Jawknee, probably would have been less complaining, but I think that's what David Gaider was trying to point out, that just because there are less that doesn't mean they should be left out.

I'm one of the people though who could care less either way, as long as it's an option and not a requirement, doesn't matter to me.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

For me personally, had I bought this game I like Ben would have been a little conformable with it but it's not going to keep me up at night. I find it unnecessary but like I said, too each his own. 🙂

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

*uncomfortable.

cLoudou
cLoudou
9 years ago

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

matt99
matt99
9 years ago

I think this is just a big over-reaction from a few homophobic gamers.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

"homophobic"

Lame.

TheAgingHipster
TheAgingHipster
9 years ago

Why is "homophobic" lame? (Well, aside from the notion that homosexual people should somehow be frightening, of course.)

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Because it a silly pejorative used by people who want too dismiss other peoples opinions to avoid meaningful debate. It's a quick way to shut up the opposition. Just because someone doesn't agree with the homosexual life style or doesn't find it to be moral behavior doesn't make them a homophobe.

It's no different that calling someone a raciest because they don't believe affirmative action is helpful to minorities.

WolfCrimson
WolfCrimson
9 years ago

*immoral behavior. You forgot the 'im' part. And I didn't understand your last sentence at all, could you elaborate?


Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 2:14:16 PM

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

I didn't forget the "im". My sentance reads "doesn't find it to be moral behavior." Saying I don't find that behavior moral. Adding the "im" would imply I do find it moral.

Affirmative action is a policy that says one has to accept a person in to a school, job or what ever based on the color of their skin. Not based on their merits or character.(It's the complete antithesis to Martin Luther King Jr's "I have a Dream" Speech by the way) Many people believe that is patronizing to minorities because it implies that because they are a minority they are not as capable as the rest of us without special treatment. The policy was made with the best intentions in mind but when you break it down, it's really doing a disservice to those it supposed to help by expecting less of them simply because they aren't white. Minorities are just as capable as whites. No need for special treatment especially in 2011. Those who are opposed to affirmative action are often called racists by its supporters much like those of us who have no problem with gays people as people(some of my coolest friends have been gay), but find the behavior immoral are called homophobes in an effort to stifle debate.


Last edited by Jawknee on 3/25/2011 2:48:30 PM

WolfCrimson
WolfCrimson
9 years ago

Oops, my bad, I read it wrong.

I see what you mean now. You make an excellent point as well.

P.S. Is it even possible to 'hate the game, not the players' in real life? I don't find it to make logical sense.


Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 2:59:15 PM

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Yes. My dad is an alcoholic and I still love him even though I hate alcoholism.

WolfCrimson
WolfCrimson
9 years ago

Err… parents don't count, because one owes waaaay too much to one's parents to ever be able to not love them. Unless they did something truly inhumane, but I digress.

Anyway, it's nice to hear that you love your parents. The way the newer generations treat their parents kinda makes me angry, but again, I digress.


Last edited by WolfCrimson on 3/25/2011 3:50:58 PM

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

I am obligated to honor my mother and father. Not love them. I still love him though he is a drunk.

I also have friends who do drugs and drink too much even though I do not do drugs or drink no more than a beer or two a month. I still love them.

Keep inmind Jesus dined with sinners and Tax collectors. He seemed to think it was possible so so do I. 🙂

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

Get lost Sweddie, Your kind of attitude and nonsense is the kind of crap Ben was talking about in his opening. You are not a serious person to debate with and have nothing to say that I will listen to on this matter because of your blatant self righteousness and smug attitude about what you think is right or wrong proves you are unwilling to listen to other peoples opinions without calling them names. You won't argue against my points because you can't. You don't know me personally or whom I have befriended so you have no room to judge or say my opinions are based on some stupid "fear of gays" or because I genuinely believe the behavior is wrong and the life style is unhealthy. Unless you have something so say to me that's not insulting or dismissive, don't reply to my posts.

MadKatBebop
MadKatBebop
9 years ago

I'm not sure if Affirmative Action has ever helped anybody. I agree with Jawknee, minorities are just as capable as Caucasians to make it in life but I do wish employers would stop looking at the color of a persons skin, and just look at the individuals ability to do the job. Ive been a victim of racial profiling a lot in my life, because I'm 6.2 and African American people find it strange that I want to work in the Video Game Industry, Ive even had some people try to talk me out of it for some racial reasons, but I believe if I work hard enough sometime in the future, I can even own my own video game studio!

PANICinc
PANICinc
9 years ago

It's both of you! Jawknee & Sweedie

TheAgingHipster
TheAgingHipster
9 years ago

@Jawknee, ahh, I see what you mean. I'm personally not a fan of the term "homophobic" either, though I try to accept that people use it without a full understanding of it's connotations. I prefer to discuss rather than label.

Ultimate_Balla
Ultimate_Balla
9 years ago

Check out the polygons on that dude. . .
#Nohomo. Lol.

JMO_INDY
JMO_INDY
9 years ago

I LOLd