As most of you know, many retailers have been offering sale prices for the PlayStation 3, and hacking has become an issue.

The combination of these two facts, along with a supposed inside source, has led to the belief that Sony is currently prepping a new PS3 model. According to EverythingHQ , Sony is looking into a new "hack-proof" machine. An anonymous source claims Sony is "already deep into plans" and the recent Killzone 3 leaks may have helped to spur on the process. The source adds the new PS3 will be a Slim model and hold a 300GB hard drive, with a European price tag of £186.99, which may or may not be true. All those PS3 sales you see is evidence of Sony trying to get rid of the current PS3 models in preparation for the new console, although Sony hasn't said anything official about a revamped machine. Their battle with hacker George Hotz – aka, "GeoHot" – has been well documented, though, and we won't be adding any commentary to the ongoing arguments and discussion. All we'll say is that there are better ways of making a point.

We'll let you know if the new PS3 SKU gets confirmed at some point. If the rumors are true, it shouldn't be too far off.

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Phoelix
Phoelix
9 years ago

An "unhackable" PS3 is a moderately bogus idea. The hackers would just have to start fresh with a new console and come up with a new method.

What I'd really like is for Sony to come up with a PS3 that transmits credit card info encrypted (they may already do this, but that's not what the hackers have said). I am legitimately terrified of this possibility.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Yes and no. Fail0verflow have kind of recognized that without the coding error in the authentication coed in the older PS3 firmware, there was no way that they could have reversed the private signing key. Whether they'd have got to any of the other keys without the original PS3 Jailbreak device (a clone of a stolen service USB dongle) is debatable. I think that they would not have got anywhere without the ability to put a PS3 into an already compromised mode before extracting the software keys.

A new SKU will presumably plug the gaps and fix the errors of the past, as well as modifying the security model and using all new internal keys. That should present quite the challenge – one would hope.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

Wouldn't all new keys make the games worthless on old consoles?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

New keys would mean that to play the game you have to update your firmware if you haven't already done so. That's always been the case for the PS3, there are games that won't play without such and such a firmware, for example GT5 required 3.55.

iPwn_3G
iPwn_3G
9 years ago

I don't know if a new model is the way to go about it. The people who are just now in the market for a PS3 probably are not the most tech-savy type. That might be stereotyping but I believe that if you know how to hack the PS3, even if it isnt that hard, then you have had the PS3 for awhile and dont care about the warranty. Plus with all the PS3s already out there I dont see how a new PS3 model is going to drastically affect piracy rates. Thats just what I think though. Anyone else have thoughts?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Although hackers were able to open firmware 3.56 because they have all the keys from firmware 3.55. they do not have the private signing key used for firmware 3.56 and later. nor are they able to decrypt or modify the firmware updater. That is what makes downgrading from 3.56 extremely difficult. I'd be speculating if I said that this means that firmware revisions after 3.56 will remain secure, but there is definitely a good chance that future firmware will remain more secure.

That would mean that older PS3s running official firmware would potentially be as secure as the new models. If Sony were able to pull that off (speculation again), they could modify the format for game software for future games so that even with the older firmware (3.55 and below) as well as all the old keys, it would not be possible to simply copy the game and resign it. That would make future games much safer from piracy.

In other words, producing a new SKU isn't a bad idea, especially if you can securely update the firmware in older systems too – which Sony apparently has the capability of doing.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

If this is true then Sony has either found a way to eliminate the issue or at least isolate it to current SKUs. Or maybe they have had the ability all along and waited to examine Geonuts data to move forward. We will know soon enough.

I would consider this damage control. For some reason I feel that Sony will be able to create the new SKU without segregating the user base. Online keys for the old systems only or both old and new?. Something we may have to live with. No matter what something must be done. Developers prefer a secure system and Sony will work to provide that at all costs. I think they are going to come through in every way. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

@Fathasun,

I think that they will be able to do something through firmware, but they need to go through a couple of firmware iterations with an effort each time to obscure more effectively the update mechanism, so that even if the previous firmware becomes compromised – even in some small way, it doesn't impact the next one. Once they can ensure that the firmware is no longer vulnerable, then I think we'll see a fairly major update to the security subsystem in the PS3. But they have to ensure that however that is accomplished, it's not feasible to crack it any time soon.

Qubex
Qubex
9 years ago

Highlander, I don't know about "firmware revisions", I think if they knew how to properly fix issues they would in one update. Maybe FW3.56 already does so to some extent, however I do agree that they may need iterations if they are trying to pin down holes in the overall security schema.

George Hotz did tease that Sony made Security101 mistakes. Sony may still be struggling to determine what needs to be fixed in its entirety, which then pays into the firmware revision statement. Honestly though, a corporation like Sony should have known better…

Q!

"play.experience.enjoy"

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Qubex,

Fail0verflow were the ones that reverse engineered the private signing key and talked of elementary mistakes in the authentication code, even describing it as an epic fail. GeoHot used *their* methodology and tools to extract the metldr key. GeoHot is an egotistical liar. I'm not sure why you are attributing a lot of this stuff to him, I think perhaps you need to do some more digging.

The point though is that 3.56 fixes the authentication code, uses a new signing key and altered the entire firmware updater making downgrading firmware much, much harder for ordinary users, and preventing the introduction of a CFW for 3.56 (thus far).

I talked of iterations because if I was Sony I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. I'd start by fixing the primary issues and making it much harder to use the same or similar attack methods as have already been used. Only after the firmware delivery and update process has been secured would I make major changes to the operational security of the system. You want to make sure that the major changes are not so easily compromised, but fixing the walls first.

AStiffyIffy
AStiffyIffy
9 years ago

What purpose would this serve? The hackers already have a PS3. It's not like something would happen that would destroy all the hacked PS3's and they would be forced to buy the new version.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

The purpose would be to ensure developers that they can continue to develop games for the PS3 without the piracy issue become as widespread as possible. Consumers can also be made aware that the issue has been resolved. Older models will of course be sensitive but may be controlled via updates.

Cavan1
Cavan1
9 years ago

also you mise well, its not like theyve stopped making ps3's, you mise well make the current crop of ps3's hack proof, as where only half way through sony's 10 yr cycle so i expect between 80-100 million ps3's to be sold in its full lifetime, so that would still be about half of ps3's that would be "hack proof"

AStiffyIffy
AStiffyIffy
9 years ago

@ FATHASUN

I didn't think about that. It would limit the available "hackable" PS3's in the future. But the hackers already have hacked PS3's. So, it's not like this new console is going to stop them specifically. That's the point I was trying to make in my initial post.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

I don't know, this new SKU might use a totally different format for the way executables are digitally signed and encrypted. Of course that would pretty much require Sony to somehow retrofit that into the existing PS3 population via a firmware update. So a lot depends on how much Sony can do with future updates to harden the system and change keys that are currently compromised.

somethingrandom
somethingrandom
9 years ago

Well they already are banning hacked PS3's from the PSN…

AStiffyIffy
AStiffyIffy
9 years ago

I have a hacker friend and the hackers are already bypassing this, according to him.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Temporarily by using a valid console ID that they have stolen from another PS3. PSN still detects custom firmwares and the new ID get's banned quickly, which makes it pointless. Not to mention the fact that if you do that, the person who's console ID you stole is now the victim of a crime. Yes, doing this would be a crime in most countries under their computer mis-use laws.

AStiffyIffy
AStiffyIffy
9 years ago

Thanks Highlander. I had forgotten about the exact methods in which the hackers bypassed it. But you just jogged my memory. By the way, if I were a victim of this, how would I go about fixing it? By taking it up with Sony?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Yeah, you'd have to talk to Sony as there is no other way to remove a console ID from their database of banned systems. I would expect that they will have to come up with some kind of procedure to allow your console to be scanned by their system to check it's running official firmware, and then they could unban it. I also expect that criminal charges could follow if they can trace the person who stole the ID.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

It seems if you fall victim in all this many hoops would have to be jumped. This would become class action if a lot of consumers are affected. We will own GEONOT!

Mamills
Mamills
9 years ago

i heard the only way to get another console id is to get it from a place that refurbish them or if someone is dumb enough to give it out

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Mamills is correct,

the length of the console ID means that simply guessing a valid one isn't going to work. So you need to know for sure the number is valid. The only way to do that is either to have physical access, or as you say if the system went through a shady refurb or repair place.

matt99
matt99
9 years ago

You know, if these hackers used all the time they devoted to cracking the ps3 to work, they could afford the ps3 games and have money to spare.

shadowscorpio
shadowscorpio
9 years ago

You know, right? They would do better just working for Sony. They could work for SOny, purposely hacking test PS3 in order to help Sony understand what they would need to do in order to improve security.

I guess they are already kind of doing that. They're just not getting paid for it. I'm trying to understand this, how detrimental could this get, as it pertains to the law abiding PS3 owners, if these hackers continue to be successful in hacking the PS3? Anyone?

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

Could it be that since Sony has examined GEONOTs data they have found ways to counter the hacks? I wonder if they could/would manufacture a new SKU in that short amount of time. I was hoping they would find a way to do so without alienating the current user base.

This hacking debacle has me pissed. I would be furious if my ID got stolen and banned. I would gladly give up my PS3 in order for Sony to inspect it for any violation of the TC.

Such a shame this loser does not use his brain for a worthy cause. Hey Goe, You are a wannabe YouTube rap star beggar/Hacker/security specialist. Your Mom must be proud. Now run upstairs from your smelly basement and tell her.

shadowscorpio
shadowscorpio
9 years ago

This pisses me off too. How many people are theses hacker/hackers going to take down just to be known as the one who could crack the PS3 when Sony said they couldn't. I support Sony all the way. These hackers need to leave us alone already and not corrupt our systems. For the love of all that is sacred.

thj_1980
thj_1980
9 years ago

If so let me hope for the best ever.
– Card readers once more
– 6 usbs 4 front 2 back
– even a smaller RSX and CELL down to around smaller than 45 so th ylod could almost be impossble to happen again.
– Keep the same price $299.99
– Abit lighter and quiter
– a better cooling system and better stock thermal paste
– includes a standard 250 gb for standalone model bigger for other editions
– some speical editions are different colours and engravings too!!!!

– ps2 combatibily without increasing the price.

if all of thoese are features are goign to be incoorperated consider 1 sold because i would definatly purchase one.


Last edited by thj_1980 on 2/22/2011 5:47:25 PM

StangMan80
StangMan80
9 years ago

I don't see the need for six USB ports but of all those features are coming I;ll be buying another PS3 sooner then later.

The Doom
The Doom
9 years ago

thats just wishful thinking

thj_1980
thj_1980
9 years ago

the only reaosn why i siad we need 6 is because 2 doesn't cut it anymore. the new xbox lsim got like 6 and also the older ps3 had 4 which is reasonable. I would like to have at least 6 because we get 4 in the front so it will be easier to have multiple devices, 2 in the back so the camera will not need to go as far and easier in genreal. also for thoese who use thier ps3 to power other usb devices from the back that don't want to get wires tangled int he fron it can be very useful. But i bet only 2 of these features will even make max. SOny is a pretty cheap company considering how much money they make alone with the ps3 so they definalty got the moeny.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

That would be dumb. People would just use all the old consoles on sale.

The Doom
The Doom
9 years ago

Sony really needs to learn the meaning of the word discreet. No hardware on this planet is hack proof and even if they manage to make a hardware more improved than the current, announcing it so even the hackers could hear isn't very smart. Hell, It draws more attention to their newer hardware. All this announcing that they're doing bans shouldnt have been done; just ban the bastards! Dont give hackers a chance if theyre threatening your company.

Looking Glass
Looking Glass
9 years ago

I think you might be jumping the gun at least a little bit. As far as I can tell Sony hasn't actually said anything at all about this.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

Hold up!!!..EverythingHQ?????????

I went to that site and it was created it seems only to generate a rumormill and hits for N4G. No archives, no nothing. Hit the about button and also NOTHING! Whats up with that? The writer is Ken? Ken who? Wheres Barbie?

And now the site is reporting that M$ has made a donation to GEONOT. Hmm… if I am not mistaken Sony losing this battle is a negative for M$ as well. Bullshit!!!!

I will investigate further but the man in the Brown Santa suit just delivered my orders to support the ISA on th planet Helghan. Wish me luck guys. I may not survive!


Last edited by FatherSun on 2/22/2011 6:19:30 PM

thj_1980
thj_1980
9 years ago

HUH????

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Say what now? I found the same story on a few other sites, earlier too. geek.com, for example, but they linked to everythingHQ.

Lord carlos
Lord carlos
9 years ago

I hope they do,i've spent a sh!t load of cash on PS3 stuff & it gets on my t!ts knowing theres pirate scum out there getting awesome playstationess for free ūüôĀ

The Doom
The Doom
9 years ago

HUNTER!! …and it looks Canadian.

RadioHeader
RadioHeader
9 years ago

187 quid? That's way too cheap!

I fear I may be compelled to go out and buy five of em, even though my 3 year old fatty runs like a dream. F*** it, I'll take ten.

thj_1980
thj_1980
9 years ago

HAHAHAHh take 20 for crying out loud!!!!
Still I would like to get another one if any of my mentions above are incoorperated. But keep that old fat one instead for now.

RadioHeader
RadioHeader
9 years ago

I'll buy 20, but only if you promise to take some off my hands if I run out of storage space.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

Before all this madness I said that with all of the momentum that a price drop would put Sony in a dominant position in the market.

It seems like Sony is on an offensive regarding new ventures into mobile and computing markets but at the same time on the defensive regarding its reputation and security. 2011 is going to be extremely interesting.

pyrobomber70
pyrobomber70
9 years ago

To combat the problem, all online users should be forced to download and install any and all current firmware updates before they can play online or visit the store or anything else that would be associated with currency. In other words no online play without current updates already installed. If you don't play online you have nothing to worry about. I think that would solve the many problems the network and store are currently having right now. The hackers would be pissed but who really cares!


Last edited by pyrobomber70 on 2/22/2011 8:45:56 PM

matt99
matt99
9 years ago

Don't you already have to install the latest update to use anything online?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Yes, they actually made us all agree to new terms of service this last week or so, and there was an updated version of 3.56 to download as well (it fixed a problem some were having when they installed a new HDD at the same time as upgrading firmware. Frankly, when you're updating the HDD make sure that your firmware is up to date first, don't do both at once, that's asking for trouble.

AStiffyIffy
AStiffyIffy
9 years ago

@ pyrobomber

Umm…it's already like that. You can't do anything online without the latest update. And within a day, the hackers cracked the update and installed it on their CFW PS3's.


Last edited by AStiffyIffy on 2/22/2011 9:00:20 PM

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

No they didn't. Within a day they unpacked the firmware and extracted the public keys within it. What they didn't do was obtain the new private key thanks to Sony fixing the authentication routines. Nor were these hackers able to unpack the encrypted contents of the update. Nor have they been able to find a way to take a PS3 running 3.56 and easily downgrading it to 3.55. There is no 3.56 CFW, and the private key used from 3.56 forwards is unknown. The 3.56 updater will only update to a firmware signed with the new authentication key. So once you are on 3.56, there's essentially no going back short of glitching the flash ROM.

AStiffyIffy
AStiffyIffy
9 years ago

My mistake. I just get the jist of things from my friends. Although he doesn't go into exact details like you do.

Soultaker
Soultaker
9 years ago

Actually highlander they've recently been able to spoof 3.56 and are able to downgrade from 3.56 now :/ no psn access or anything as of yet