Ben-DutkaFor the record, I really do believe in the potential of PlayStation Move. As many of you know, I was one of the many skeptics but after playing some of the more entertaining Move-oriented titles, I'm definitely a believer. I still think the hardware has a long way to go but I imagine the future is bright. Indeed, I'm looking forward to it.
And I also think it's fantastic that, theoretically, Move could be used with just about any genre in existence. The hardware's diversity is a major highlight and one Sony often talks about; using Move with everything from action games to RPGs to puzzlers to shooters is a huge, exciting benefit. But Move may never conquer one genre: the shooters or more specifically, the FPSs. For too many years, gamers have been playing with either the keyboard/mouse or gamepad setup and we're so conditioned to that style, our skills may be intrinsically tied to our control of choice. One could make the same argument for other genres but because shooter fans are often so very dedicated to the genre, and due to the amount of time spent, I can't see a whole lot of Call of Duty or Halo lovers jumping to the Move.
Here are my three major issues: Move is incredibly sensitive. So ridiculously sensitive in fact, that I envision myself playing Killzone 3 with Move, twitching a finger, and watching the aiming reticule rip across the screen at lightning speed. Secondly, accuracy. After playing Time Crisis: Razing Storm , I realized there's a definite problem on this score; I ended up watching the reticule rather than aiming, because the gun always seemed off-center. Of course, that was a poor game, so maybe better developers will do better, but I think it's worth noting. Thirdly and lastly, movement: I've had the Nav controller hooked into the handle of my gun attachment, and it's a little cumbersome. …and hence, the big over-arching problem: shooters are all about pinpoint precision, in terms of both movement and aiming. Both are absolutely critical.
And although Move is capable of succeeding on both fronts, I'm not sure designers can reign in that sensitivity and make it a fluid, seamless experience. But here's hoping, at any rate.
We will see with Killzone 3 and socom 4, OH! and sorcery too, Only time will tell.
You are correct. On paper it looks like the Move/accessory combo should re-define the genre, but the problem persists that FPS fans are indeed programmed as Ben suggests.
For an example, look at the COD series.
Well for me I think its a great idea, I'm a person who tries different things and not a person who plays only call of duty.
Yeah I'm not too keen on even trying Move until the more elite titles come seeping in. I'd love to give an RPG made for Move a go though. Press the stick to dash in, wave the wand for accurate sword swipes. That'd be cool.
Ya know what would work? Something like a First Person Slasher. Bring back Maken X from the Dreamcast days and adapt it to move.
Yhea, I feel similarly… it will be interesting to try the device. Need to go to a shop that is demoing it, see how sensitive it really is.
At the moment I am ok with the controller… It is clumsy compared to keyboard and mouse, but I am still managing to own the lot of them in Bad Company 2.
Other than that we'll see if Move moves me to any extent. The future looks generally bright though.
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
World, I had the exact same dicussion with a mate. Did you play Oblivion? A game like that would be perfect for Move
Also, thumbs up for your picture 😉
yeah I love oblivion, I think it would work well, however it would be even cooler if your sword followed the wand perfectly ya know? Waggle=strike is kind of a Wii thing.
Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 12/20/2010 3:34:23 PM
And thats the whole point with Move – precision. It could and would work exactly as you described. There's no waggling involved here
Take Gladiator Duel (sword-fighting arena game) on Sports Champions for example. This is arguably a mini game or tech demo but it's still so precise.
There's no pre-canned animations meaning you can fight pretty much how you want. If you want to bonk them on the head, you can, if you want to slice their shin, you can do that too.
So imagine that kind of tech with a fully fleshed out game. Winner eh?
(Apologies if I sound patronising, not my intention. I just assumed you've not seen/played much with Move)
I think as a little bit of time gos on, they'll be able to figure out the all fine tuning for Move.
Certainly won't be any Pew,Pew,Pew, going on concerning the the Move & Ps3.
Hopefully Kojima will put in the Move option for the PS3 version of Rising.
That would be a brilliant idea. On the other hand, I can see issues similar to what R* faced with Manhunt 2 on the Wii. A murder simulator it was called. And with the realistic depictions of slicing and dicing in Rising… Game detractors would have a field day.
Peace.
yes I was thinking about that to. Any game that involves slashing would be great with Move.
The technology is already there. With the camera for visual tracking of both Move controllers and people's body movements, there's so much that can be achieved with this kinda tech.
Can Kinect do shooters accurately? No.
Can Move do shooters accurately? Yes.
Can Kinect do fitness and sports games? Yes.
Can Move do fitness and Sports games? Yes
Can Kinect do RPG's accurately? No.
Can Move do RPG's accurately? Yes.
Can Kinect do dance games accurately? Hell yeah!!
Can Move do dance games accurately? Yes, but you need 2 Move controllers and a dance floor mat.
Can Kinect do racing games? Yes, but not incredibly accurate.
Can Move do racing games? Yes
As you can see, there is a trend. Only one genre of games is covered well with Kinect. Everything else is done well on Move.
Sony learnt from their mistakes with the Eyetoy, and now they have combined the best of both worlds to create incredible interactive gaming tech.
Like Highlander posted last week, Kinect isn't anything special. It's 2 cameras and an infra-red sensor that tracks main limb movements within a 3D space. Fingers aren't tracked, only arms and legs. And the lag, oh dear God!! The lag!!! Dance Central works well though, but that's about it.
Honestly, I'll only give up the Kinect the day Harmonix release Dance Central on PS3 with the same full body motion tracking and Move accuracy. Move controllers can wait for LBP2 and Killzone 3. And Sorcery.
The eyetoy performs better then kinect.
Kenect is a joke, it's a gimmick, Microsoft just wants sell numbers. How many did they give away, How many dollars of gift cards and Xbox live point and memberships did they give out for you to buy one. The lag is really horrible.
Move is very good piece of hardware. It has a lot of potientiel. I can't wait to see how it is in a years time and even with Socom 4, KZ3 and sorcery even.
Last edited by StangMan80 on 12/19/2010 10:59:19 PM
Kinect = 1 camera, 1 Infrared sensor system.
Kinect has 1 RGB camera (optical) one Infra-red emitter and 1 camera that is designed to see the infrared image created by the emitter. There are therefore 2 cameras, but they are not stereoscopic. The infrared doesn't actually work in 3D, as such, but it's better than a simple motion detector. Kinect will work for anything that involves large movements of the body which are tracked both optically and using the infra red sensor system.
BTW PS Move dance titles need not use a dance mat as long as the Eye can see your entire body in motion it can track your movement, which is how the dance portion in Singstar works along with the Move controller of course). DDR will probably come with a dance mat, but that's kind of been it's thing since it started. However the Eye can potentially track your movement more accurately because of it's frame capture rate being double that of the Kinect camera. The Infrared sensor on Kinect compensates for that, but point for point, you can do pretty much the same controllerless dance games on each platform. With Move you have the Move controller itself in addition, and in the case of Dance Dance Revolution you have a mat for that game's specific gameplay.
Thanks for clearing that up Highlander. You certainly know your stuff.
I just wish Sony had done a better job of promoting this tech. Sure, it's impossible to match Microsoft with the 4 billion dollars spent on Kinect marketing (no joke, $4 billion!!!!), but from this side of the pond (Australia), Sony is slowly growing in popularity while 360's and Kinects sell through the roof for the first 6 months at the launch of a big name product. (Kinect, Halo, COD, Gears)
PS3 doesn't spike as much in sales, but has a steady year over year growth, with word of better exclusives and Move awesomeness spreading by word of mouth.
Honestly, when is Sony just gonna give us the Cross Game Chat and finally shut up those damn Xbots!!! Doesn't bother me, but cross game chat and party chat and the main reasons my friends prefer to game on their 360's.
Move will be my number one option mainly because Move is the reason I'm going to give my least favorite genre another shot. I've always disliked FPS's and I'm hoping Move will change my mind.
If the shooting attachments have actual sights on them then I think it can be really accurate because you can just where you sync it at.
That would be a great idea to improve on the realism and accuracy.
It seems to me like Move is a solution waiting for a problem. You would think that Move is some fantastic solution to the woes of playing an fps, but the truth is, gamers LIKE using their gamepads. For many that's what gaming is all about.
At the very least you would think Move would be a good lightgun replacement but when you see the crud that devs are putting out you realize that even THEY aren't all that interested in the technology and are just trying to make a quick buck.
Or what about the actually successful motion control games? EA Active for example. It comes out on PS3 and barely a soul wants to even review the thing. Why? Because NO ONE takes motion controls seriously.
So no, I don't think Move will ever be the #1 option for shooter fans.
Their is no way move would ever be number 1. I dont think their is even a question their.
But i have been using move with both mag and re5 and its incredible. Ive said it a million times already it works extremely well. And bpth games wernt even made with move in mind. So whats that say for a game like kz3 or socom 4? Well word is nothing but good thibgs about how it works woth KZ3!
I think move is an excellent peripheral. And i think its a fantastic alternative to the way we are accustomed to playing our games. It adds a little extra. I mean before the gold edition came out for RE i had no ambition to pick it up n play again. But move pushed me to and its a different type of gameplay. I am picking my shots better, conserving ammo, and believe it or not more accurate. As for mag kind of the same situation. I hadnt played it for aboit a month but when the patch for move came out i picked it up and surprisingly found it works very well!
Last edited by bigrailer19 on 12/20/2010 12:02:39 AM
Ben,
I played the time crisis demo and I've also played a couple other fps demo's with move, don't remember what they were called, think one of them is just called the shoot or something silly. Anyway, thing is you shouldn't even factor time crisis in. It was so terrible, it had nothing to do with hardware, was all software issues.
The other games were very aim and shoot, there was a reticule on them too, but it was wherever you were aiming and it worked great. I think that with kz3 and socom it will probly be even better because they are big full production games, not just shovelware.
I know I'm not worried anyway. From all the move games I've played, there's no hardware issue, just comes down to the devs finding a way to utilize it well.
I'm gonna build Move attachments for shoes and sell em. I'll be a millionaire!
Oh wait, nobody wants to run and jump in place do they? heh
You're an XBot's worst nightmare aren't you?
nah, I have one as a pet, I think everybody should 🙂
Remember to have your pet spayed or neutered.
nah, I rather have a pet that MOVEs.
@ World
You're hilarious, man. I need to argue, like you do, with my xbot friends.
In addition, I should add some of you guys to my PSN. If anyone wants an add, I'm cabalavatar1
I don't think so, but then, people will usually latch onto new tech. I think it would be a good alternative to the DS3, but don't see it becoming the standard, unless we get a few extremely solid games that actually work very well with it.
Let me just say that I'm not much of a shooter fan, and the few that I do play, I rather enjoy using the gamepad. The same holds true for racing games, but I still knew that I should at least try GT5 with a wheel. So, I bought a wheel, and to my surprise, it adds a huge amount to the satisfaction that I am getting out of the game. At first it was difficult, but as I play more, I realise that it is a brilliant option. The same will hold true for PSMove. It will be a more engaging method of play, but perhaps not for everyone. And of course, the adjustment curve will be steep, but people will get used to it soon enough, and if not 'Tough Titties'. Go back to the DS3.
Peace.
Did u guys see the new Gameplay of one the Last missions from Killzone 3.The Mawlr a Huge 250 m tall moving Hellghast machine which u urself have to takedown.It was Epic.
Killzone 3 is going to be Epic,even the Story.
its hard to say, i doubt it.
allot of people dont like it, and they dont like change.
me, i love it and i love change but its going to be a big adjustment.
its and always will be a side option, but whether it replaces the controller as the most used option remains to be seen, far to early to predict that.
If they bundle Move with SOCOM or Killzone at a decent discount, I might get it, especially if the nav controller is included. Otherwise, I'm still not sold.
I agree with those who said that it probably won't become the preferred FPS controller anytime soon.
I think Move can be really terrific with shooters for the simple reason that it is similar to point and click, rather than drag the analouge stick on a standard gamepad.
It's like wondering whether GT5 would handle better with a wheel attachment or the gamepad – the answer is "duh" obvious.
That said, the Move does require some minor changes to make it a compelling option. I've said it before, the Move wand needs an analouge nub and the Navigation wand needs some kind of motion sensing. That would make for a kick-ass controller!
I like the Move for one main reason. It reminds me of the days I used to spend in the arcade as a kid dropping quarters into a machine. And now it's even better with the use of motion detection.
I don't think that the Move will ever become the replacement for a regular controller, but it is nice to have the option to switch between them.
It will be interesting to see if Rockstar (or anyone else) will come out with a RDR (or equivalent) that is move compatible. It would be cool to have a quick draw shoot out where you actually have to pull a gun out of the holster.
I'm enjoying the Move so far, even with the quality of games that are our so far. (Yeah they aren't A titles but they are amusing) When Socom 4 and Killzone 3 launch, I will probably be investing in the assault rifle attachement to play them.
Will be? In a word no. Just like the Kinect, it going be here and gone tomorrow. In fact I could already see both Microsoft and Sony abandoning their respective gimmicks next year.
I don't know about that, Nintendo has proved that there is a good chunk of the market that is open for casual gamers. I would be suprised if these "casual" peripherals dissapear. If anything they'll be getting more and more developed to draw in the next generation of "Action-Casual" gamers.
For those of us that grew up with controllers in our hands, that can't be replaced. But there are young gamers now who will pick up a DS3 for the first time and think it feels awkward because they don't have to wave it around to play a game.
I was skeptical about the whole Motion sensing genre at first, but ever since Duck Hunt came with a gun peripheral to play, it's what we've been striving for ever since. Even the "Hardcore" gamers have been always looking for a more "realistic" way of gaming.
This generation of Wii's,Kinects, and Moves are just the first real attempt at delivering that…It's only going to get more accurate and more realistic, especially when it's paired with 3-D TV's. I think this version of gaming will stick around for a bit. It won't replace "controller" gaming for those of us that have been around for awhile, but it will be the controller of choice for some, and as long as it makes money, it will be around.
I'm curious to see what the next generation of motion control brings.
A2k78
I disagree completely.
Sony will not abandon Move, they have adopted a steady long term approach to Move, integrating it with a wide range of titles. Move is a log term thing for Sony. They continue to include Move capability in new and upcoming games. Move titles are not limited to casual games. The capability is baked into so many games already, that it's viable as is. However with mainstream AAA titles like Killzone 3 supporting it, it has a continued future outside the casual environment. By integrating Move controls along side the standard controls, Sony creates a long term viability for the Move controls in the majority of game genre.
Microsoft's strategy with kinect is to force them into as many homes as possible in as short a time as possible, hence the blitz. I think their strategy assumes a high sell up front with a quick decline. They will presumably continue marketing the more casual games at the Kinect audience who will perhaps buy the games since they already have the controller and are looking for something to do with it. Long term, Kinect is little more than the Xbox EyeToy. With a limited range of game genre and control capability, it may well see a decline in support as it's games fail to sell.
Move is more like the Wiimote in that the control scheme can be baked into more or less every game without restriction to genre. Long term that makes it a better bet since it can serve not only the casual game segment, but also the AAA hardcore/mainstream game genre.
Killzone 3 is not going to save Move. A few Sony loyalists will pick up the Move and play KZ3 with it, but the grand majority will continue to do what they've always done which is use their DS3.
You want Move to have staying power? Then you need third party developers to make shooters that support it, and support it well. They need consumers to say "I prefer getting the PS3 version because it has Move support."
AlienAge,
If Move controls don't work as well in online, that may be true for games that are heavily dependent on the online play. but for games with a heavy single player bias, Move may well increase the level of immersion making the game experience more enjoyable. If the single player aspect of games has a distinct benefit from the move controls, I can see people making the decision to pick up the PS3 title because of Move integration.
I think you are being overly scathing in your view that only 'loyalists' will buy it.
I am one of the people that Highlander just described. Killzone 3 will be in my library on release day because of Move integration. If I don't like it, I won't be playing it with the DS3. The DS3 is, however, my main controller and always will be, but Move will definitely have it's moments where it will be the best option.
The biggest problem with the Playstation Move and Kinect is the camera. It demands a larger than used to gaming space and that alone can cause a problem with response and accuracy.
Also, the Playstation Move needs a definite update in its calibration process..it needs to be less of an inconvenience.
Nonetheless the Playstation Move can move units, software, and hardware giving the right support and quality.
From joystiq article about KZ3 with Move:
''So, after lots of playing on the Move, I decided to go back to using the standard controller. I have to say, it wasn't easy. While turning the character's head and body is quicker with an analog stick, the Move is much more precise at aiming within the character's current field of vision.''
''I am now committed to using the Move for my first full playthrough of the game. Not only does its integration seem justified to me, but I'm sold on its improved accuracy and greater sense of immersion over the DualShock controller.''
''Guerrilla Games has shown me that even when a game isn't expressly designed for motion controls, the experience can be heightened with PlayStation Move.''
Look like KZ3 got FPS with Move work perfect.
The problem with the Move in FPS games is the floating reticule. Having to use the wand to handle the field of vision(turning and looking around) creates a delay that will have you pwned against anyone who is good at an FPS with a controller….or kb and mouse.
The other problem is you positioning. Holding the controller in a fixed position and moving your wrist to aim can get uncomfortable. A DS3 gives you the flexibility to put your hands where ever you want them.
Don't get me wrong, I love the Move. Sorcery looks awesome and I really want to try it out with a TPS. I hear RE5 with it is great. I just don't have the gold edition. 🙁
I read someone suggest that twisting the wand should be used for turning the character, rather than moving the reticle to the edge of the screen. That seems like a good idea to me, though I've never played any of these motion-control shooters.
Plus you can feel all gansta with your gun sideways. 😉
Speaking of motion sensing….
Does Kinect Work If You Are GWAR?
WARNING: This is GWAR we're talking about. They are offensive, rude, immature, and pretty *** gross. Not intended for viewers at work, Bible thumper's, or in front of children under 18.
You've been warned…….
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/12/20/does-kinect-work-if-you-are-gwar.aspx
My -only- problem with the Move controller (and this problem arose in _Heavy Rain_ as I haven't played any other titles with the Move) is its calibration system. I want to point it directly at the centre of my screen, but with a 40+ inch screen, that's not always easy to determine. Perhaps even a centre dot to indicate centre would help? Oh, and I found in _Heavy Rain_ that I'd have to re-adjust the calibration every hour or so (which isn't terribly inconvenient in that sort of a game, but I don't have any such inconveniences with the DS3 controller…).