Ben-DutkaI don't necessarily mean in terms of sales; Sony has reported that they've shipped 1 million Move units in North America, and we've heard 1.5 million units have been sold in Europe. Plus, it seems pre-order sales for Kinect were high and in terms of technology and potential, both should – by all rights – have bright futures.
However, it appears both are encountering some definite issues during their first days. It seems to start off on a good note – Sports Champions for the Move and Kinect Sports for Kinect, which is dragging in decent review scores thus far – but then, games sort of go downhill. Take the competing fighting games- Fighters Uncaged for Kinect appears to be a mess, with a 2/10 from Eurogamer and a 4.5/10 from Game Informer, and Move's The Fight: Lights Out seems to be in the same unfortunate boat, with a 3/10 from IGN and a couple 5/10s from Eurogamer and VideoGamer. Then there's Time Crisis: Razing Storm for Move (trust me, other reviews are no better), which sort of implies that shooters with Sony's motion sensing technology could be terrible chores. On the good side, there are glimpses of cute goodness, like EyePet for Move and Kinectimals for Kinect.
But there are plenty of other downers. Kinect Joyride is mediocre with lots of 5s and 6s, Start the Party! for Move doesn't appear to be all that fantastic, and the less said about Racquet Sports (Move), the better. There are several decent games for both, coming in with average review scores of around 7, but it goes without saying that both applications require…well, a killer-app of some kind. Sony doesn't seem too concerned with sales numbers and Microsoft has already said that review scores for their Kinect titles won't matter so much. Indeed, the Wii is loaded with shovelware and never really did offer much in the way of top-notch software quality, and everyone loved it. So maybe the technology itself will be the ultimate selling point, and we have to wait for the AAA software.
Let's just hope it actually comes.
Seems like the only strong game for Kinect is Dance Central or whatever that game is called. The rest are just above-average to below-average in terms of reviews.
Then again, this is casual gaming stuff. They just hope clueless people buy these peripherals, not the serious video gamer.
I still have hope for Move, I'llbe surprised if Time Crisis is a complete failure.
Did we expect to see games like Uncharted 2 quality for motion sensing games so soon? We didn't get the cream of the crop until a couple of years later into each consoles life. Especially the Ps3.
I have enough hope to see something amazing for the PS3 down the road, I mean all that horsepower will eventually be utilized properly into a motion based game. If anything something creative like another arcade(Flower) kind of game.
Last edited by IrreducibleSUN on 11/4/2010 10:17:07 PM
I would like to see more games modified like Heavy Rain was to use Move/Kinect (if, of course, the game would be a good fit for the new technology).
Hehe, man, some of those games are getting rated horrible. I was semi-interested in Fighters Uncaged, but check out this excerpt from Joystiq. This guy thought the game was so bad he simply couldn't bear playing it long enough to score or "review" it.
"I'm not giving it a score because I think scoring a game after a half hour sets a bad precedent, and I'd rather eat a rain-soaked box of poison buttholes than ever play Fighters Uncaged again."–Joystiq
LOL
They did the same with Nier, but that wasn't fun.
Last edited by hellish_devil on 11/4/2010 10:23:58 PM
If you give Nier enough time, it sucks you in like a New Vegas hooker. (Not the ghoul ones)
Nier's awesome fun, damnit.
Don't even get me started about the whole Joystiq Nier thing. That incident completely destroyed any respect I had for that website.
Basically, Justin McElroy posted a kind of joke review in which he says he gave up on Nier and would give it a zero. Except the whole reason he gave up is because there is one point in the game where you are supposed to catch a fish (which introduces the whole fishing minigame that is otherwise completely optional) and he apparently spent several hours trying and failing to catch that fish because he was *fishing in the wrong spot*. This is despite the fact that the right spot, like every single other objective in the game, is marked on your map with a big red X. It didn't matter how many hours he fished where he was fishing, he was never going to catch the right fish.
By the way, you don't even have to learn how to fish in that game. If you fail more than a couple of times the game will automatically give you the necessary fish, but only if you're fishing in the right place.
The worst part isn't just that he did something dumb (it happens to the best of us sometimes), but rather that despite the fact that this has been pointed out many times by many different readers he completely refuses to even acknowledge his mistake. There have been no corrections or retractions made, and even talking about the Nier thing there is likely to get you downvoted or even banned. It's ridiculous.
Wasn't Nier rated like really bad, though? I see on Metacritic it has a poor score.
Maybe it's not poison butt-holes bad, but isn't there a line where things are bad enough that it's just not worth you time even at mediocrity.
Because of this, I tend to prefer game rating systems that are 5 star, or so. Just because I sort of view games like this:
1 star: broken and crappy all around. WARNING stay away, and don't play. –Fighters Uncaged.
2 star: functional, but has some serious misgivings that require a lot of tolerance. Proceed with CAUTION.
3 star: functional, mostly balanced game design that may speak best to those who are really into the subject matter. there may be a handful of technical misgivings, but all around it's a worthwhile venture.
4 star: excellent in design and well presented. a quality product well worth the time of any interested.
5 star: a superb, redefining, if even evolved take on game design. It radiates in the cutting edge and sets the bar for most to aspire to overcome. –Uncharted 2
That's a generalized synopsis of it in a nutshell.
Anyway, from what I can tell, Nier appears to fall into the 2 or 3 star category.
I try to stay within 4 to 5 stars, and I'll rarely risk lower, only if there's a quirky appeal about it that speaks directly to an interest of mine.
No. Nier is a 3-star game that turns into a 4-star game for RPG fans.
cool. so maybe that adds up to an all around 3.5 star game =)
But there is Heavy Rain, MAG and Resident Evil for Move. We already have killer apps.
Last edited by hellish_devil on 11/4/2010 10:22:39 PM
That's just Move controls added to existing games, I think Ben means killer apps developed just for move. Think Sorcery.
Of the two peripherals, the Move is more to my liking. This is largely because it's a sort of appendage to existing high quality games. There's a chance we might see some quality "made for Move" games, but I don't see any for me yet. Fine.
But aside from that, I hope KINECT flops miserably. I know it sounds lame of me, but there's a reason. I know many here don't like MS, fine. They're not all sugar and rainbows, but even then, they can still manage to get a few solid games out every so often. I don't want too much of gaming to fall into the black hole of this foreboding casual market that seems to be gobbling up too many possible gamers. Keeping them locked into their casual world of crappy silly games that don't represent what gaming entertainment is capable of.
We have the whole iPad/iPhone/Apple wave upon us, we already have Nintendo and their Wii, and now here's MS jumping in head first(where's your hardcore games now MS? *crickets**** Gears 3**** more crickets*). I'm getting concerned that the market is splintering so much that some genres and game types are going to fall through the cracks. I want Kinect to fail because I want MS to stay glued to their laurels and keep the economy of gamer that fueled the PS2 and XBox generation turning.
Last edited by Temjin001 on 11/4/2010 10:28:03 PM
I bet if the games were on Wii they would rake in rave reviews though.
I'm thinking that the killer apps will come for Move, but Kinect will always be mired in icky gooey shovelware that poor reviewers will have to muddle through for years.
While it isn't surprising that the launch titles suck balls, it shouldn't be surprising that in terms of sales neither of these will come close to the Wii. It grabbed that market, chewed it up and spit it out and they don't want back in no matter the tech.
I feel bad for Kinect preorderers though: "I'm gonna need a bigger living room."
I don't understand how Wii reviews get as good as reviews as a PS3 exclusive, even M$ halo or gears. the PS3 and yes even the 360 are way better games on all categories then the wii
Well, you kinda have to review Wii games in comparison to games of the same console. It's not quite fair to judge a wii game and compare it to a 360 or PS3 game, just as it isn't fair to judge a PSP game with PS3 expectations of technical quality.
Hense why a 7 or 8 on a PSP or Wii, would in PS3 or 360 standards, be like a 5 or 6.
Stang, Nintendo's first party games are genuinely fun, original and inspired. Most of their first party games ARE better than most Xbox and PS3 games aside from PS3 exclusives.
Last edited by Jawknee on 11/5/2010 11:45:04 AM
I can't see any way on earth how kinect will last, especially for games like Halo and gears. The Move on the other hand has a lot more potential with the fact it has buttons. How are you suppose to play a "Video game" with no buttons? Kinect is a gimmick, a joke.
Kinect will have to add on peripherals like guns to make that thing viable for hardcore games. It is just going to happen.
Even then, who wants to play that type of game, holding a gun, for longer than maybe 20 minutes?
I saw a BK commercial today… every 15min there giving away a M$ kinect…
This is the only way M$ is going to increase numbers, by giving them away.
Indeed, and it's not the only place that they are giving units away at. Not to mention the cross marketing agreements with places like Macy's. I hate them for it, but you have to admire the sheer gall of MS spending as much as they are to advertise a USB webcam. That said, they're spending so much advertising the things, it would have been more cost effective to give away 3 million of the things and taken all the free media coverage as advertising.
hell, on launch day in times square they had marky mark (why him?) gave away a lot of kinect bundles to some boys and girls club charity thing. also in new york, the toys r us gave away 150 bucks worth of kinect games to the first 3000 customers. i hate how microsoft does things.
I want Move and I will get it…but I need to see several good titles; that Sorcery game is the only one on my watch list aside those titles that will get Move implementation (Heavy Rain, SOCOM).
I think I might know one of the main reasons for both systems success. I for one purchased a wii with curiosity and desire to play a game that actually let me control the character with bodily motions. However when I finally got one I soon realized that I had been duped into buying a system in which all you do is shake the controller violently to do a pre determined action. Now I'm sure that there are alot of people just like me who actually wanted to wii to do what they advertized it as doing but were sadly dissapointed. So when some products come along and actually do what they say they are supposed to do then people are going to go and get it, even if each system only has one good game so far
If you want a break from reviewing mediocre games, feel free to skip over this early motion stuff. No one could blame you for wanting to protect your sanity.
The three horsemen of the gaming apocalypse: Wii, Kinect and Move.
Oh, and did anyone else hear about the fiasco over Kinect not recognizing certain, um, facial colors?
Last edited by Hezzron on 11/4/2010 11:51:54 PM
Glasses give Kinect headaches too.
I have skipped over most of it, if you haven't noticed. 🙂
Attaboy!
And dark-skinned people too, according to an article over at GameSpot. I posted a link to that story in Ben's one million Moves sold article yesterday.
Guess I will have to wear a hockey mask (Jason) if I ever want to play DisKinect, so it will recognize me.
Ben, I know that this is probably a point that most will dismiss, but when you talk of the Move games I do think that you need to include *all* of the existing PS3 titles that have been upgraded for Move. Games Like Heavy Rain are different with Move, and provide a much more in-depth experience and immersion thanks to move. I think that comparing directly to Kinect down the line based on the titles that are specifically made for Move and Kinect misses the important fact that Sony felt strongly enough about Move to retrofit some past games with Move capability. I don't see that happening with MS. Forget the mindless masses buying Kinect because Burger King or Macy's told them to. Looking at the Moe compatible games, there is more on offer with Move already, and some of the games that are Move capable are stellar titles. They do count too, don't they?
Last edited by TheHighlander on 11/4/2010 11:55:04 PM
No, I understand. However, outside of Heavy Rain, I'm not sure what existing games really benefit from the option of Move, and what future games will…
For instance, I just can't see anyone playing Killzone 3 with Move, nor do I see how Move capability does anything for a game like R.U.S.E.
But you make a good point. It just didn't fit with the article. 😉
I know. I understand that the point of the article was to compare launch games. Perhaps the turn of the year would make a good time for a broader look at Move and Kinect and the software available for each?
I'm just very weary of the constant smoke and mirrors game that Microsoft are playing with Kinect. If ever there was a candidate for the Video game equivalent of the Emperor's New Clothes award, Kinect is it.
Well, of course. Microsoft is the king of that.
I hope Gamestop & eBay winds up so flooded with used Kinect's that I can grab one out of the under $10 bargain just to have for my collection, & maybe try to use on the 360's dashboard.
Ben: Have you seen the demo's of Killzone 3 with Move functionality yet? I'll see if I can find it if you haven't, but it looked like it could be pretty cool. We'll, of course, have to wait and see, but the dev interview I saw looked promising.
I guess, though, that I'm still looking for a viable alternative to mouse, for consoles. So that kind of has me looking at it from a different angle, as well.
I heard that Resident Evil 5: Gold Edition (Move Edition) was a lot of fun compared to the original game.
RE5 Gold and Mag work pretty well.
Morne: I have, but after playing Razing Storm, it had better be a looooot different.
I'll be using Move to play KZ3. 🙂
I'll be playing kz3 with move! I love both MAG and RE5 with move. Its a lot of fun, works very well, and is so muchore immersive. As a player you may be harder to control than with joysticks for mag in particular but thats the players own fault, because literally the crosshairs go where ur pointing. Your pointer speed is the big thing because moving your arm is a big difference than moving a joystick with your thumb! That's why for me when I'm playing MAG I use some sort f arm rest, and just move the controller with my wrist to limit the speed and range of my motion!
Works great, have a lot of fun with it!
Ben I don't see why you don't think people will play Killzone 3 with the Move, in fact that's the one game I'm by far MOST interested in playing with the Move controller assuming it works well! I really hate playing FPS-type games with a standard gamepad, aiming is always a PITA it's either too sensitive or too slow compared to aiming with a mouse, but I think the Move could actually be the device that finally makes it easier and more natural to aim properly and accurately.
I guess we'll have to wait and see how well they can make it work, but I think if anyone can do it, it's Guerrilla…
@ Ben: Well, that argument would make sense, if all developers made the same product, you know? Every developer goes about things differently, and some are amazingly good at it, while others fall between average to worse.
The video of KZ3 w/ Move I saw, showed me a playable FPS experience imo. Response didn't appear to be an issue there. And the jabbing action to induce a melee kill was pretty sweet. Thus far, I'm pretty excited to play Killzone 3, LittleBigPlanet 2 and Sorcery with Move. I think those games are definitely being made with Move in mind, maybe not as the focus, but definitely aware of it's presence.
I think the downloadable games are where the fun innovations will be. Flower best used six axis. Echochrome 2 looks like a pretty interesting use of Move.
Agreed. The simple PSEye games are a decent novelty too.
Oh dear, I'm seeing the gigantic push for Kinect all over now. All the stores have commercials for it. It's… unsettling to think how many people are going to be duped this holiday season.
i want to play my ps move more but it just tires the hell out of me. i like playing straight for long periods of time. Im on the silver challenges in ping pong right now. i'll get back to it later though.
would not say stumbling, i just dont think people are ready for it yet.
problem with motion controls is they have more cons than pros so they will never fully take off.
always be sitting there as a alternative, but will never replace the good old controllers!