When a company executive stands up and tries to convince people that he doesn't like to make money…well, it's amusing in a way.
GameStop and the used game business has come under fire recently, with publishers being upset that they don't receive a dime for any used game sale, and gamers tossing in their own brand of disapproval. But when GameStop exec Niall Lawlor addressed this subject during the Develop Conference 2010, he said something that many journalists and industry fans find difficult to swallow. According to Examiner.com , when InstantAction CEO Louis Castle compared the sale of used games to blatant thievery, Lawlor defended his company by saying, "We like to think GameStop evangelizes the business." But then came "the" comment:
"We don't like being in the used business, it's very difficult to manage."
Now, wait…back up a second. You don't like it? Who cares how "difficult" it is to manage when the company drags in a few billion every year based on the sale of used games, which enjoy nutty 100% markups…? Standard markup in that store is maybe 50% (although I remember working there, and it's far less for hardware and other items), and the trade-ins these days point to more than 100%. I traded in Naughty Bear last week and got $16 for the trade; its used price tag is $40. The gap has been widening over the years; I've been watching it.
So to say you don't "like" this may be construed by many as a lie. We're not calling him a liar; we're simply warning him that others might call him that.
He's lying. I am the "other's".
Yeah I completely believe that. CEOs these days. Just shut up and run your company or work at your company like you're supposed to (Kotick, Riccitiello, Wada, Ballmer, Greenwalt) and lets throw Newell in there for good measure of blundering idiots.
the other day while in the mall i won a nintendo DSi, brand new sealed box, so i walked into gamestop asked them how much they'd give me for it after lookin on the shelf that it says 169.99. Guy said were gonna have to open it, then it will be considered used an will give you 20$ for it. I then dropped a few f bombs an said what u sell them used for an he said 129.99.. Thats a 100$ markup.. I said this is exactly why i hope this place goes under your ripoff fucks.
So what happened to the DSi?
E-B-A-Y
OMG this is as bad as Gerald Ratner's infamous comments where he basically admitted that his jewelery business sold total crap for good money. Consequently his business revenue fell through the floor and he resigned. there is a phrase in the UK – "Doing a Ratner" – which basically means making a silly, unforced error in a spectacularly public and damaging way. Google it for a full explanation, the Wiki account is a decent version of events.
So, in that respect, it seems like Niall Lawler just did a Ratner.
Oh, and for the record, anyone who claims that their company doesn't like being in a business with mark-ups in excess of 100%, revenues in the billions and which props up their business is a big, fat, liar.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 7/13/2010 11:28:56 AM
That would be awesome if he pulled a Ratner. GameStop go down, down, down…
Lol Highlander, I remember that Ratner gaff… all those years ago… idiot.
Q!
"play.experience.enjoy"
*Currently in Taipei, Taiwan
Here's a solution: create a local community forum/site where people who want to buy used games / sell them could go and talk with others and do business there. You could avoid Gamestop completely and get good prices on your used games, and the person buying it off of you won't have to be ripped off. Only downside to it is it might take time, and you need patience, but everyone knows that that's an important virtue/principle to have in life so you could also level up your patience.
Have you been to http://www.cheapassgamer.com/?
It's a forum where people bring info on deals from stores and internet websites. They also do trading/selling between members. Members have a rating system too that kind of keeps them in check so you can have an idea if they are trustworthy or not. It's an excellent site for getting deals on games.
CAG is the best place to go for all video game deals. They have saved me a lot of money, just don't give your opinion about games because they will tell you to go ShaqFu yourself.
So true.
@ WolfCrimson,
I wish something to that magnitude would happen. Unfortunately we are plagued with to many problems. If such a thing existed there would be no way we would purchase the games for what Gamestop purchases them for. Whoever would use the site would more than likely want a feasible amount for the game (say 40 or so for a 60 dollar game). In that case just go to ebay or amazon. Gamestop gets them at such ridiculously low amounts because the individual getting rid of the game doesn't want to bother with anything else. Either they are looking for a real quick way to get a new game when low on cash, or they extremely hate the game and want it gone asap, or they don't want to bother with ebay or amazon. So for time being, we unfortunately have to deal with gamestop.
Wow. Gamestop does not have an accurate perception of it's customers.
A 100% mark up that we all know exists followed up a quote like that has me reconsidering my loyalty to that store.
Loyalty . . . . . to Gamestop?!?!?!?!?!?!
Yeah. I have 2 really good friends who work there, and 1 who is the manager.
I try to take care him because of our friendships.
honestly I'd consider that more loyalty to your friends than to gamestop and that I'm ok with.
The more I think about this the less I care if a publisher doesn't receive any from used sales. It's no different then if I buy a used car. At some point the manufacture did get the sale when it was new. If I paid for it and decide to trade it in so some one else can buy a used car that is my choice. Same if I want to buy a used car. The dealer gets the cash not the manufacturer. These publishers like EA are too greedy.
On the otherhand I dislike how gamestop functions. They are way over priced. Wish they had more competition.
Last edited by Jawknee on 7/13/2010 11:49:11 AM
It's a whole hell of a lot different. When you buy or sell a used car or home or other artifact, you are selling a used artifact that has a now limited life because it has already been used and is no longer 'like new'.
A game on the other hand, even if the disc is scratched, is still as good as new. Remember you are not buying the game when you purchase a game disc, you are buying a single license to use the game stored on the disc. You do own the physical disc, box and paper manual. But the price you pay is essentially a license fee. When a person sells a used car or other used product, it will not last as long as the 'new product' and is perceived as a second class item compared to a new item.
When you buy a game used, you are paying gamestop, not the publisher, for the license you are about to use. But gamestop is not the licensor, they are simply another licensee, just like you and me. Used game sales absolutely do prevent publishers receiving the revenue that their game has generated.
I think its any different. At some point that used game GameStop is selling was sold new and the publisher did get the money.
Now i can underestand the argument of having to support people online who didn't buy the game new that's why im not completely against them charging a fee to access the games online features. But if i buy the game, the disc and what ever is on that disc belongs to me until i decide what to do with it. Should publishers be allowed to stop me from giving a game i bought away to a friend? No, so why should they be allowed to stop me from selling or buying them used?
The same argument can be made for used record sales. Should used CD and record store not be allowed to resell music people sell to them? i don't think so. Once the publisher gets their money for that copy of the game then it no longer belongs to them. If i pay $60 bucks for a game, the publisher doesn't get to control what i do with that game as long as im not copying anything illegally.
Last edited by Jawknee on 7/13/2010 12:17:08 PM
Whomever thumbed you down probably doesn't even have a driver's license. lol
Although you are technically correct Highlander, that type of model just frustrates me. The fact that selling used games is different than selling a used car is stupid. If I buy a game I feel that I am paying for a single copy of the game to do as I wish, not just paying for a disc and a case, etc. I should then be able to freely sell, trade, loan out, destroy or do anything else to my copy of the game without the publisher complaining, just like I can with my car.
I feel that the only times publishes are hurt by used game sales is when a game has only recently released. In that case the overall sales figures are distorted since there is no extra income from all the people buying used. But I would question how much they are even effected by it since most newer used games are still only $5 below the new price. And I for one will always buy a new copy of a new game because getting to open it myself and look at a flawless manual and disc is worth the extra $5.
If they still want to push sales so bad then they should just bring down the price of new games after a few weeks.
The only way buying a used game would be anything like buying a used car/house would be if when you buy the game, you must start off where the previous owner left off.
The basic fact of the matter is there cannot be a used game sale if the game was not purchases new to begin with. Every single one of those games that's are sold used at GameStop were sold brand new at some point.
Again the publisher got their money.
@underdog, you often times do. A lot of those used games have wear and tear just like a house or car would. Expect in the case of a car or house, the previous owners or the dealership clean it up. Not so at Gamestop. They often sell scratched and dirty games.
Last edited by Jawknee on 7/13/2010 12:35:31 PM
Jawknee, name one instance where if you bought a used Wii, Xbox 360, or PS3 game, have never played it on your system before, did NOT import a save file, and you would continue where the previous owner left off. Just one. 😉
Last edited by fluffer nutter on 7/13/2010 12:40:57 PM
I know I usually just lurk, but I have to jump in. With all due respect Highlander you are wrong, games DO depreciate in value. Top line titles retail for @ $60 USD at the time of release and drop steadily as time goes on, you can get Uncharted2 new for $29.99 now as an example, that's half the original price (and more than I paid for it used). I am not telling you anything you don't already know.
The point is that just because the depreciation in a game's value is not caused wear and tear does not mean its not depreciating all the same, a little bit more each day the further past the release date you get.
When we buy a game, we are buying a disc of data, nothing more. Once we own that disc, it is ours do with as we wish, as long as we do not infringe on the copyright holders rights. You can use it as a coaster or a frisbee and you can sell it too. Because selling said disc, your lawfully owned personal property (assuming you obtained it legally to begin with) does not infringe on the rights of the copyright holder.
The music industry tried fighting this battle and lost. As long as games are available in a physical format there will be a used market, that's just a fact of life. Publishers would be better off quit bitching, accept that truth and find a way to work with the used market rather than trying to fight it.
Ha Fluffer i get that point but that's not what i'm arguing. In that instance you and Underdog are correct.
I'm just a talking about physical shape of the game, house or car is in. Often times the cars and houses look better then they did when they were trade. Not so with games especially ones at GameStop. I bought Uncharted Drakes Fortune used and the disc was trashed. I took it back and ordered a new copy of Amazon.
Highlander is indeed correct about the license fee you pay for a game. If you actually owned the contents outright you would be able to do anything you wanted with it, like make copies and sell them or make changes to the content.
Games are software and the only difference with games is the absence of serial numbers to activate use. You can't legally sell used copies of Photoshop in a retail store.
The publishers and developers are the only ones that can do something to change the situation. Nobody is going to do it for them.
@ Highlander
You bought the license, so imo you are pleased to do with that license as you see fit. If I want to sell my license then I sell my license, I don't see how a game company would have something to do with that. After all, it is MY license, I bought it.
If you buy a game, it nowhere states that you are renting a license.
@Bjorn
That's not how a license works… by definition, it can't work that way. Try selling your driver's license, or your business's liquor license.
A license is something that is non-transferable and is attached to a single individual or entity.
@tes37
The licensing of games works differently than something like photoshop. Here's the dilema…
There is no law available for game dev's to truly benefit from the licensing of games the way you described. If they did an all out serial number registration, there would be no video game rental business. PC games use registration because there really isn't a PC rental business to profit from. At this point in time, devs cannot both provide serial numbers to prevent re-sales AND allow their games to be rented, etc.
To be sure, devs would love to have both, but that relationship does not exist. So, while they do believe in the purchase of a license, and that's exactly what it is, because they have not done what is required to protect their data with serial numbers, they have no case in a court of law. They could say, "Gamestop keeps reselling our games!" Then Gamestop's lawyer would say, "Why didn't you protect it from redistribution?" Dev's response can be nothing other than, "uh….."
Case closed.
The reality is, until devs get more creative, like EA is trying to do, all devs can do is pray for some sense of morality. Since that's a value that's more or less dead these days, we have multi-billion dollar businesses.
Other immoral multi-billion dollar and LEGAL industries? Cigarettes… Porn… Microsoft…. the list goes on!
Last edited by Underdog15 on 7/14/2010 9:41:50 AM
@bjorn
Think of all the licenses you have ever had in your life. Drivers license, fishing license (TV license – if in the UK), etc…
None of these licenses are transferable. They are all specific to YOU as an individual. If you try to sell your license to another individual, it's illegal to do so.
As Underdog points out, if there were measures in place to protect games, then used game sales would easily be challenged in the courts and the practice would end. The impact of used game sales should not be underestimated, and yet so many people dismiss it out of hand like it's a non factor. It isn't, especially on a platform like the PS3 which has yet to be cracked.
EA and others have recently started using online access fees for used/second hand buyers as a way of recouping some of the lost sales revenue. I think that is a sign of things to come. If the next generation of consoles comes with an implicit assumption of connectivity, then I think you can look for all games to be sold with a one time activation key which will – at a stroke – end used game sales. GameStop and others have themselves to blame, they have bit the hand that feeds them, and they will ultimately get slapped down, hard.
Oh, and by the way, when all games come with a one time use activation code, it will end all used sales, not just those at GameStop and the like. And when that happens, we can all thank GameStop for screwing it up for all of us.
Last edited by TheHighlander on 7/14/2010 9:58:18 AM
"cigarettes, porn, Microsoft…"
LOL! I love it. Too funny.
@Jawknee
lol thanks.
@Highlander
Don't forget what it will do to the video game rental industry, as well. People will be limited to demo's only.
Was GameStop always this stupid or did they grow into it? It amazes me they've gotten this far if they were.
As long as people keep buying stuff from them, no matter how badly they're treated by the employees and how much they're ripped off on trade-ins, well, they can keep saying pretty much anything they want. Can't they? 🙂
Like MS. The only reason they are still in the gaming industry is because if morons who buy 4 or more Xbox's.
JackC8 does have a point. There are so many blind and stupid consumers that they'll just keep coming back for more. Just look at all of the Kia owners.
lol i love how cars are now the main analogy in this thread.
Let's use used clothing as an example from now on.
Have bought 2 or 3 games at Gamestop this decade, or last decade, whatever lol
That shows how much I disapprove of that horrific place
Last edited by Scarecrow on 7/13/2010 12:21:44 PM
well the past three months i been buying all my games used to save money. i don't care if its a 5 dollar differents i reather pay 54.99 then 59.99. i am so sick of the 60.00 dollar price tag. i wish that all games coast 49.99 like last gen so i can buy more then 2 games a month. last gen i was able to 5 games at the most last gen.
Theres better ways to save money on games then buying them from GameStop. Look for other mom and pop shops for just keep your eye out for deals.
Amazon always has better prices on new games. You can get new games from Amazon for less then what you pay for a used one at Gamestop.
Last edited by Jawknee on 7/13/2010 12:30:58 PM
If you don't like paying MSRP then I suggest you wait a month and get the games when they drop to $40, brand new. This way, you save money AND you support the developers.
Unless of course its developers like Crapcom and Square. I'll always buy used.
@ bigamer08865 – Saving $5 off a new game price by buying used is foolish. If you live somewhere near a Gamestop, then you have access to Amazon. With the credits they offer I got both MW2 and RDR for $40. New.
I don't get it, you can easily buy 5 games a month like before. Just don't buy new ones! Buy "Platinum collection" and good games from the budget box.
"although I remember working there" – Wait a minute Ben, you worked at Gamestop. I have been on this site for a little more than two years and this is the first time I heard of this. How long did you work at Gamestop and were there any cute girls who work their who didn't know the difference between GTA 3 and Vice City?
I admit, I took advantage of the $200 PS3 trade in deal this week. I am saving up for a PS3 GT5 bundle or a Move Bundle.
Gamestop does have some good deals once in a blue moon. I got Red Dead Redemption for $19.20 after tax and shipping during there power hour last week (that is the exact price robodaddy-o).
Yes, he's mentioned working at GameStop several times. It's how he was able to gain his power of tree catching when throwing individuals. :p
Great price on RDR during the power hour. Others were able to use their $10 credit and get it even cheaper.
I guess Ben mention it before my time here. I remember hearing the tree story, but didn't know where it originated.
I used my $10 credit because it came up to $29.20 after shipping and tax ($23.99 power hour price).
I knew it fluffer nutter = robodaddy-o(forums).
I never hid it. This name makes me feel fluffy and I'd been asked before, on here.
Why didn't you put in a code for free shipping?
I feel fluffy.
Last edited by fluffer nutter on 7/13/2010 12:43:43 PM