Microsoft has an irritating habit of attempting to tear down the competition while simultaneously promoting their own; a marketing tactic we don't see as often from either Sony or Nintendo. …and people wonder why there are a growing number of gamers who simply don't like Microsoft and how they handle their business.

But one thing they definitely need to do, before they make themselves look foolish amidst a bevy of hardcore car and racing enthusiasts, is continue to take jabs at Gran Turismo while telling everyone how great Forza 3 is going to be. First, Forza director Dan Greenawalt says GT "dropped the ball," , and then, he makes the mistake of talking some more . Let me explain something to you, Microsoft: no Forza installment has proven itself against any Gran Turismo entry in the category of realism and authenticity, as any fan of simulation racing will tell you. It'd be one thing to make bold claims and take jabs at the competition if any one of your titles had managed to say, "hey, I'm the most realistic racing experience you can have." But this has never been the case; in fact, Forza has been a borderline joke to racing purists in past years.

Now, I'm not passing judgment on Forza 3 as I haven't played it yet (even though Microsoft's magic ball can somehow tell us that it'll be better than Gran Turismo 5 ), but I've played the last two. I played them because I'm one of those people who only play simulated racers, and I want the best ones I can find. Of course, that has typically been GT over the years, but that's just the way it is. We at PSXE have a little thing for cars; Arnold and I had 350Zs for a little while (until I turned "traitor" and got rid of mine), and he always has an interest in the hobby. My father and other members of my family have been mechanics for years and although I don't claim to be one myself, I certainly know enough to spot simulation differences in video games. I've played Prologue , which, all on its own, is far more realistic than Forza 2 ever hoped to be. The problem with Forza is that they continually make allowances for a larger, more casual group of gamers that may need some assistance.

I don't know what they're planning with the third entry, but the past two can best be described like this (and ask any amateur or professional racer, who will undoubtedly confirm the assessment): it's a simulator superimposed over an arcade racer. In other words, its authenticity routinely makes way for the understanding that the player may not appreciate every last intricacy involved in the sport. Now, while GT offers something similar in the default mode, the Professional racing mode is something quite different, and as close to realism as I've seen. There are certain things you can do in Forza that just don't translate to real life, and that rarely happens with GT. Furthermore, if you're even going to bring up the idea of car damage, save your breath. You know what simulated damage is? It's grazing a wall at 35 m.p.h. that can cripple your tire and send you to the pits. It's getting bumped from behind and suffering an alignment issue that was no fault of your own. And if you want to get detailed, it's effing up on an engine upgrade (can't put the turbo in without altering the engine accordingly) and having your car blow up halfway down the straightaway.

Hence, we have never seen realistic car damage in any game, and whatever that was in Forza only made the experience laughable. It didn't make it "better;" it made it ridiculous. "Wait…after what just happened, I'm still racing…? Ooookay." Again, I have not played either Forza 3 or GT5 yet (unless you can count Prologue) , so I have no idea how they'll turn out. I expect great things, certainly, and as an objective simulated racing fan, I really don't care which one beats the other. But I will tell you that thus far, GT is still the king, and Microsoft shouldn't toss their words around so freely. You haven't won jack sh** yet, so until you do, how's about keeping your eyes on your own paper? Don't worry about what Sony is doing; just deliver the goods. Is Microsoft at all capable of promoting themselves without going after the competition? I have difficulty finding examples of any first-party Sony developer doing any such thing in any interview anywhere, but hey, whatever. I'm just saying.

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Bo0mKiiD
Bo0mKiiD
11 years ago

We'll see which racing game is best.

Victor321
Victor321
11 years ago

Oh, we won't even need to see, just close your eyses, and the answer's already in your head.

It Starts with a G, and ends with a T. And, just for icing on the cake, add a number 5 to it. =D


Last edited by Victor321 on 6/9/2009 10:15:04 PM

Reccaman18
Reccaman18
11 years ago

Shouldnt it end with an "o?" lol

Scarecrow
Scarecrow
11 years ago

Oh god!

That was an awesome rhyme Victor123!

Qubex
Qubex
11 years ago

LOL… that is rediculous Scarecrow!

Q!

"i am home"

Victor321
Victor321
11 years ago

@ Scarecrow, thanks and it's 321 😉

Victor321
Victor321
11 years ago

@ Reccaman18,

I was thinking of the short form for Gran Turismo that's why I said a T instead.

wasim
wasim
11 years ago

Forza is a dead franchise. No american plays that flop game not to even mention europeans –(people who plays racing games)

Forza 3 looks like a ps2 game vs GT PSP and even has half the number of cars as GT PSP

GT5 is bigger than all xcrap 360 franchises combined

THEVERDIN
THEVERDIN
11 years ago

Well I know that those MS fanboys won't be racing with a steering wheel from MS, cause everything they make is faulty. Remember the recall on the MS wheel? I do, shipped it to them never saw it again.

Victor321
Victor321
11 years ago

Another Nicely Written Article.

wasim
wasim
11 years ago

indeed

I dont understand how are MS talking shit with a flop franchise like Forza 3

GT is bigger than all MS franchises combined . It will outsell flopza 3 just on the first day of its release worldwide

No one would buy a copy of flopza 3 in europe or japan or even USA unless MS gives the game away for free in bundles like they did with most of their games

ZettaiSeigi
ZettaiSeigi
11 years ago

Obviously, Microsoft is the reason why we have a lot of "immature fanboys" around. I don't think it was like this at all when it was just Sony, SEGA, and Nintendo slugging it out for videogaming supremacy.

It's not so surprising to see first-party developers avoid talking about the competition at all. They'd rather devote their precious time coming up with awesome games exclusive to our platform of choice, than talk about their insecurities and make fools out of themselves.

Scarecrow
Scarecrow
11 years ago

Sony and Nintendo were going to have an epic battle in the ps2/Gamecube era

Microsoft stepped in with their money-hungry spoons and ruined it all.

Sony/Nintendo love QUALITY gaming and it shows in their first and third party games.

Microsoft on the other hand throws $$$$$ on third party devs and then says "OMG look at our quality games"

Akuma_
Akuma_
11 years ago

i STILL think consoles the likes of the Dreamcast and Gamecube were great machines.

I owned both, aswell as a PS2, and I loved all 3.

DC had some great games… Blue Streak, Shenmue, Powerstone etc.

and the 'remade' Resident Evil 1 and Resident Evil Zero looked fantastic on the Gamecube.

Dr_Evil_Genius
Dr_Evil_Genius
11 years ago

There are some that will argue that the Dreamcast was better than the PS2 before it climbed into it's grave.

It had all of the arcade games I loved playing without the crazy load times. Too bad I couldn't afford one at that time.

Troy Powers
Troy Powers
11 years ago

I was thinking about that a few days ago. When it was NES and Sega Master System, there was no fanboyism. The kids with one console didn't trash the other. You were friends with the kids with the other system, so you could play what they had too. Nobody cared who's was better.

But, I think it was the internet, not Microsoft, that created fanboyism. Something about internet anonymity that lends itself to pissing contests. "I'm a loser in real life, but here, I can PRETEND I'm hot sh*t."

Dooby_Scooby
Dooby_Scooby
11 years ago

Troy,

Before xbox was about did you have fanboys so devoted to their platform ? When you get paid to step into forums and talk sh** about "your platform of choice" it changes things quite alot.

Its not the Internet, Its Microsoft. Its called FUD, Check every business Microsoft are involved in and you will see the same fanboy bollocks.

I really couldn't imagine any of this rubbish going on if it was Sega, Nintendo and Sony still…

ZettaiSeigi
ZettaiSeigi
11 years ago

@Troy Powers: Yeah, I think the internet is more responsible for the mad fanboy culture nowadays. I just notice that most of these raging fanboys happen to prefer "the other console". I guess I had to apologize for blaming it all against Microsoft. Long days at work sure are never good. LOL Thanks for putting some perspective into that.

And about the Dreamcast, I agree that it's a good console. Sorry to have seen it end like that. It had a lot of spectacular games. I particularly love the Sakura Taisen (Sakura Wars) games that only came out in Japan.


Last edited by ZettaiSeigi on 6/10/2009 9:07:57 AM

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
11 years ago

holy crap!!! what you just said is incredibly true

I don't think there were as many immature fanboys before microsoft hit the market. What's the bet they're all playing Halo right now, swearing their heads off in a horrible attempt to act older and macho in the pre-pubescent squeaky voices!! LOL

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
11 years ago

I'm sorry, but I distinctly recall the Sega fanboys running rampant when the PS2 came out. Honestly, it was almost as bad as it was today.

…not surprisingly, most of those DC fanboys became Xbox fanboys purely out of spite for what the PS2 "did" to their beloved system.

ZettaiSeigi
ZettaiSeigi
11 years ago

@Ben: Well you are more familiar with the gaming scene at that time. I mean, I was just merely enjoying my Dreamcast then, but I've moved on to the PS2 after that. No ill feelings at all towards Sony. I must have been drastically different to the majority of the Dreamcast fanboys then. LOL

Dooby_Scooby
Dooby_Scooby
11 years ago

One thing though, did the sega fans start foaming at the mouth when they knew Sega was doomed ? ( I wanted to get a dreamcast – never got the chance )

In any case, sorry I will take my comment back.

Arvis
Arvis
11 years ago

I actually remember getting in HUGE debates on the school bus in middle school over why the Nintendo 64 was a much better system than the Playstation.

"It's 64-bit! And it's Nintendo! So it's the best!" I would cry.

"Bah! Playstation has Final Fantasy 7 and Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil and [insert millions of other classic]!" my friends would respond with.

But I didn't want to believe that there could be anything better than Nintendo.

And then I played a little game called Final Fantasy Tactics… and my life was forever changed. =)

-Arvis

convergecrew
convergecrew
11 years ago

Troy, you probably were around, but during the SNES and Genesis days there was rampant fanboyism. Me (TG-16 fan) and my brother (Sega fan) included. It was just harder to be a fanboy because there was no blog posting.

Fanboyism has always been around. Even the Sega Master System had its share.

fluffer nutter
fluffer nutter
11 years ago

converge is right. Doesn't anyone remember that ad campaign "Sega does what Nintendont." ?
People, like myself got a Genesis because we were tired of the delays for the SNES to come out but many of us ended up getting both systems eventually. TG-16 came into the party but not everyone was familiar with that platform. I won a TG-16 at a game competition in Mission Viejo and loved that thing. I miss it too.

JDC80
JDC80
11 years ago

Question how in the blue hell they can rag on GT 5 when GT mobile looks better than Forza 3?

Karosso
Karosso
11 years ago

So true Bro…LOL

Wage SLAVES
Wage SLAVES
11 years ago

Record thumbs up!

I couldn't have put it better. The lighting in Forza is approaching Burnout Paradise tech. That said GT looks photorealistic.

Banky A
Banky A
11 years ago

Cheesus Christ, 30 thumbs up ^_^

oldmike
oldmike
11 years ago

i seen some say GT5 will have car damage also
so there is one less thing they can use

i am a gamer that supports the hobby at times i even get games that i am not that into like shadow of the colossus (looks good and a new idea i am just not that into timeing jumps it gets me mad more so then NG or DMC on ultra hard)

raceing games is one of the type of games i am not good at BUT GT5 is looking to be a be all to end all raceing game just haveing that game will fill every type of raceing i or a buddy mite want to play.

now sony mite have done the cash milking path and made 3 or 4 GTs this gen one for every type of raceing but no they are makeing ONE game that has it all and i MUST support that.

napoleon85
napoleon85
11 years ago

I agree with you 100% I just love how ridiculously Microsoft puts itself down to the level of its own fanboys lol… Besides, how can Dan critique something he completely ignores? Those kind of statements just prove how insecure, immature, and stupid a person is capable of being.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
11 years ago

I think MS actually went about trying to create a rabid fanboy system.

Think about it, why else would MS keep getting caught numeous times paying some of their people to go into other console's forum & create havoc there(just as I think 1 or 2 of them probably come here too just to try & shake things up too).

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
11 years ago

Ben,

"Microsoft has an irritating habit of attempting to tear down the competition while simultaneously promoting their own; a marketing tactic we don't see as often from either Sony or Nintendo. …and people wonder why there are a growing number of gamers who simply don't like Microsoft and how they handle their business."

I think this may be the best written, most fundamentally true and accurate paragraph you have ever written. Bravo.

Oh, and you're right of course, about Forza 3 and GT and all teh trash talk. But that first paragraph of yours just NAILS it for me.

Anonymous
Anonymous
11 years ago

I second that. Ben for gaming President.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
11 years ago

Thank you. I thought the article needed a decent intro. 😉

Sir Shak
Sir Shak
11 years ago

I was about to start a thread in the forums with the same gist as this article , but you have obviously done a better job at expressing the pettiness of such tactics . These people are taking cheap shots at GT and Yamauchi every chance they get .

Saying that your game is better is acceptable , but using words such as " the king is naked and I don't want to slap him around " for one of the most respected game creators is just despicable .

All this when Yamauchi hasn't even made a passing comment on Forza , let alone criticise it . This pathetic behaviour can only be aimed at getting people to mention Forza and GT in the same breath .

migabyte
migabyte
11 years ago

It's working in America though…..Sony could use a little of these cheap tricks.

ZettaiSeigi
ZettaiSeigi
11 years ago

@migabyte: The day Sony resorts to that will be a very sad day for me. Not saying that Sony never does this, but they sure know the capabilities of Polyphony Digital to create another amazing iteration of Gran Turismo. They would just let the game speak for itself, and it'll shut those people up.


Last edited by ZettaiSeigi on 6/10/2009 9:15:50 AM

Scarecrow
Scarecrow
11 years ago

Though I haven't played any Forza game I have seen others play it and I'll say this:

Steering in Forza is a joke

^That alone makes Forza a joke if they're even trying to say that it's the best simulator out there.

Many have tried, all have fallen. Gran Turismo is the best racing franchise in v-game history, there's no two ways around it.

I so can't wait for GT5 to come out and bury Forza3 in its grave.

Akuma_
Akuma_
11 years ago

Racedriver: GRiD is a great racing game, by Codemasters.

You can't compare it to GT though because its a more arcade style experience.

Nynja
Nynja
11 years ago

Funny you mention GRID. I felt that GRID was a better sim than Forza.

dveisalive
dveisalive
11 years ago

GT = over 50 million and counting Forza = no where ever close to touching the greatest Racing Sim ever. GT5 will sell millions PERIOD! I really cant wait. The one thing I love about GT is the drivers test they are so dam addicting to me etc…

HOODGE
HOODGE
11 years ago

Didn't I hear correctly that Forza 2 has sold just over 3 million units and GT5 Prologue has outsold it at around 4 million? If that's true the GT demo beat the full FM2 game in quality and sales. Lol's

dveisalive
dveisalive
11 years ago

I agree with you Scarecrow I tried the Forza game in Gamstop and the steering was so gay it wasnt even funny. GT Rules PERIOD!

sticklife
sticklife
11 years ago

Yeah I bet the steering like other steering of the same sex.

fluffer nutter
fluffer nutter
11 years ago

I bought Forza 2 for my Xbox 360 and man, was that a pile of crap. I just hoped for a good racing experience but I was very disappointed. At least, it was only $20. I have had more fun with PixelJunk Racers than Forza 2. I do hope that Forza 3 is something decent but I will wait until I actually pay it a bit before I even consider a purchase. GT5 is a day one purchase for me due to the fact that Polyphony Digital are the reason why I got a PS1, then PS2 and now my PS3s.


Last edited by fluffer nutter on 6/9/2009 11:31:26 PM

Blood_Haze
Blood_Haze
11 years ago

Gran Turismo 5 will be the BEST racing game of all time.

Now Forza Motorsport 3 is such a sad excuse for a racing game. The graphics aren't photo realistic like GT5. I bet the Wii can do a better job on making a racing game, even though the Wii is totally gay.

Comparing GT5 and Forza Motorsport 3 is like comparing shit(Forza Motorsport 3) to a diamond(Gran Turismo 5)

sticklife
sticklife
11 years ago

I think GT will show us how real in game car damage can be. Did anyone else see when a car crashed i think a wire sliced through the front bumper. Man I think i'll get a wheel for this GT.

Banky A
Banky A
11 years ago

Where did you see that crash?
I neeeed ^_^

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
11 years ago

@Sticklife,

GameStop has $30 off a PS3 GT Racing", complete with shifter, & separate foot pedals till this Thursday.

It's $99.99 right now, but goes back to $129.99 after the 11th.

Call first though, to make sure they still have some left.