I won't comment because in the bigger scheme of things, from the most general societal and philosophical standpoint, the man definitely has a point.

It seems the National Rifle Association was in need of something to blame in the wake of the Newtown, Connecticut shooting tragedy. And they found it in…well, just about every form of current entertainment, especially video games.

NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre is now on the record saying that violent games are at least partially to blame, and he cites a few of the bloodiest available:

"There exists in this country a callous, corrupt, and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people. Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm, Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat, and Splatterhouse. And here's one: it's called Kindergarten Killers. It's been online for 10 years. How come my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn't or didn't want anyone to know you had found it?"

However, he didn't stop there, as he decided to go after both movies and music; both industries have come under fire in the past several decades for supposedly promoting bad behavior:

"Then there's the blood-soaked slasher films like American Psycho and Natural Born Killers that are aired like propaganda loops on Splatterdays and every day, and a thousand music videos that portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life. And then they have the nerve to call it entertainment. But is that what it really is? Isn't fantasizing about killing people as a way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography?"

LaPierre finished by saying that the media, the ones responsible for those games, films, and music, are all caught up in a "race to the bottom" and are only competing to "shock, violate, and offend every standard of civilized society." Well, that's a little harsh but it's hard to see it any other way.

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WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

We all knew the NRA would make this about media and mental illness, anything to put the blame elsewhere so that the gun laws don't get tightened up a bit.

I won't argue either way because I have my own ideas and I have ideas that are best for the country but in the end it doesn't matter, Mr. LaPierre and his associates will find themselves on the wrong end of America with this and other rhetoric including but not limited to arming everyone in the nation.

We have these games in the UK too; how much gun violence do they have?

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

I heard a program about this on the radio yesterday actually. The numbers of people dying by a firearms (not counting suicide) per year is around 60 in the UK, 48 in Japan, 94 in Canada, 21 in Sweden and more than 12.000 in the USA.

… But, it's the computer games and movies who is to blame, right? American media is global, we enjoy that same entertainment. But yeah, yeah. Whatever.
I'll just leave it at that. I don't have the stomach to enter this discussion, I'm just happy I don't live in your country.

(podcast who goes more into detail can be heard on bbc co uk/moreorless)


Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2012 1:02:39 AM

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

I'm with beam… cause you know… we don't have poor mental health services, movies, and video games in our countries. NRA has 4 million members in a country over over 300 million. Doesn't seem like they speak for most Americans, Beam, so I wouldn't assume that if you thought that.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

I know, Underdog! Like we got such a fantastic mental care system, or no lunatics in our countries. And how about finding a ten year old Flash-based basement-made browser game to prove their point – this whole affair could have been taken straight out of an episode of Monty Python! 😀

They may not represent the absolute majority Underdog, but it's scary how many Americans I see on the internet who talk like them.
Comparatively speaking they practically got a civil war going on in their country and defend their "freedom" and "rights" like the American dream was some sort of anarchy.

I just… I'm biting my tongue to avoid tangling myself into a discussion these days. This is for the Americans themselves to try to figure out and solve and the rest of us to study from a social anthropological perspective, and maybe – hopefully – learn something from it.


Last edited by Beamboom on 12/22/2012 7:41:06 AM

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

I should bite my tongue too. It's hard to not involve yourself when tragedies like this so easily occur. I don't know about you, but I cried a number of times over the news. And each time I hear people more passionate about rights to bear arms than these kids (how many know a single name of a single victim?), it makes me so unbelievably angry.

PSN French
PSN French
8 years ago

Typical that so many are controlled by mass media and government propaganda. You guys talk about "crying over the tragedy", yet bring up the issue of banning guns. The same idiotic argument as the other side who are supporting guns. This has nothing to do with guns, if someone wants to get a gun, they absolutely will no matter what the laws. The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun. Houston, Texas arms their teachers and the has never been, and never will be a mass homicide at the schools there. I am so sick of people pointing fingers at OBJECTS to blame instead of criminals themselves. It makes sense though, American propaganda has admitted to not allowing a good tragedy "go to waste"… they are dumbing you all down to become slaves.

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

Yet it would be harder for them to acquire a gun if there was gun control. Tell me, where exactly can you acquire a gun illegally if there was gun control? Where would you purchase it? Who do you know that could acquire it without being stopped by cops? It is because guns are so easily accessible in put country that such things happen. Do you see massacres happen in other countries with strict gun laws? No you don't.

PSN French
PSN French
8 years ago

I'm sick of arguing with idiots, so if you're smart enough to get the following statement then maybe you'll wake up… "A gun has NEVER, EVER in the history of the world, EVER caused harm to a living being."
Maybe we should ban everything that can be used as a weapon, and bubble wrap the entire world so nobody gets a boo-boo. Go back to candyland where you can be kept in your little artificially happy world. As for my household, we prefer dangerous liberty to safe slavery. Nobody directs my life or my safety, and if my guns are taken away, I have the ability to get illegal weapons to protect my family, both from criminals and an oppressive government. Sorry, some of us prefer to think for ourselves as opposed to "following the sheep".

JoebooSauce
JoebooSauce
8 years ago

@PSN French,
Let's ban all the video games before we even think of banning guns. Or make it more RIGOROUS buying a gun and bullets. You wouldn't sound like an idiot if you didn't parrot the NRA line like that. If you're gonna parrot quotes, parrot this one that I just made up for you.

"Guns make it easier to kill people on a whim than if people didn't have them."

Person gets in a rage… hmmmm… no guns, let me use a kitchen knife, of baseball bat to kill 26 people in a minute… Guns make it easy to kill someone with a flicker of a thought.

dlte
dlte
8 years ago

Fictional guns haven't killed anyone.

Killa Tequilla
Killa Tequilla
8 years ago

So everything else is to blame, except the killer? Right.

What about the lack of gun control?


Last edited by Killa Tequilla on 12/21/2012 11:45:22 PM

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
8 years ago

That oughta burn them.

Kratoskillall09
Kratoskillall09
8 years ago

Gun control is moot. Especially for people like the psycho that performed that atrocity. If a criminal wants guns, they'll find a way to get them. With all that said I do agree we need to do much better screening when it comes to who can and can't get guns. But the NRA is nothing but a bunch gun nuts who believe that anyone, no matter what should be able to own a gun. If anything the guys running the NRA need ton get their heads checked. Like Adam Lanza needed to.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
8 years ago

I wouldn't put all of the NRA's into one basket, there is exceptions of course.

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

I love this argument. If a killer wants a gun, he'll get a gun. lol… so don't make laws about it, right? Come to think of it, don't make laws about drunk driving, either, because a drunk driver will drink and drive anyways. Right? Lets take it further… screw laws in general! Criminals will just do what they want anyways.

You know… Columbine had an armed deputy on site the day of their shooting… just saying… it sounds like the NRA forgot about that fact in their suggestion to arm elementary schools with an armed guard. Now, maybe that armed guard prevented further murders than what happened, but we can't prove it. And it's not like we don't have guns here in Canada, either. My uncle has a nice little collection. But no civilian could have a hope in hell of heavily arming themselves like these mass murderers can. Can't that at least be limited?

The two countries with the lowest gun related deaths AND HOMICIDES in the world… are Japan and Iceland. Go wikipedia it.

And if you can't let go of your precious guns (I have kitchen knives in my, well, kitchen… that's enough for me to be perfectly confident in my ability to protect my family) ask yourself… Why in the freaking world is the USA such an incredible outlier in 1st world violence??? Hint: it isn't video games… it isn't poor access to mental health care… and it isn't movies or anything else in the media, because we all have those issues too!!

So before anyone tries arguing why you SHOULD have guns… tell me why the USA is so incredibly violent in both overall numbers and per capita.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 3:06:13 AM

PSN French
PSN French
8 years ago

Actually, most numbers are skewed by governments. Japan is the most corrupt in the world as far as true data for crimes. Did you know that if they cannot solve a murder case in Japan, they won't classify it as a murder? It's to keep the masses "happy" by saying "we solved 94% of all homocide crimes and are incredibly safe. People are so willing to just believe what they are told, without thinking logically about an issue. Anywho, if you live in America I'll be thinking about you enjoying your FEMA camp vacation while I fight for freedom with my local militia.

AcHiLLiA
AcHiLLiA
8 years ago

obviously the killer did not have enough control of himself. I agree it's partial to blame violent games/movies, the rest is past history to this criminals.

matt99
matt99
8 years ago

No there is no partial blame at all, if violent entertainment had any effect on violence in society we would see similar numbers across all societies where these games/movies/music are available but we don't. What we do see is that in countries where there are stricter gun laws there is less gun violence…so people need to stop taking the easy way out and actually discuss the issue using facts.

AcHiLLiA
AcHiLLiA
8 years ago

Certain tragedies did happen involving violent entertainment in the past. There is history for everybody in this society, and every each have control, make bad decisions there is going to be consequences.


Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 12/22/2012 12:39:33 PM

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

That is bs. Show me any statistics that have actual cause and effect.

AcHiLLiA
AcHiLLiA
8 years ago

In the LA newspapers years ago, LA one of the worst/or thee worst in the US.. and NO I wouldn't make this sh*t up.


Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 12/22/2012 8:14:03 PM

Geobaldi
Geobaldi
8 years ago

The NRA, and media in particular, seem to go after anything that even somewhat compares, violence wise, to whatever event may have happened. The culprit in this instance was a Starcraft player it was revealed, so of course THAT'S the reason he went all psycho according to the media. Again, if games and movies were the reasons people went on killing sprees, then I should've gone on one a long time ago seeing as how I've been gaming, and watching movies, for 30 years now.

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
8 years ago

Should we really blame entertainment media for anything violent that took place?
Hundreds and millions of gamers out there, one or two psychopaths go massacre and entertainment is to be blamed?
What about every other gamers who never go psycho?
Why aren't they, and why aren't WE, the normal one get any consideration?
So if one guy drive a car and run down a group of children crossing the street, does that mean driving will make you go psycho as well?
All these douchebag know is putting the blame on something else when the real issue is being ignored.

If video game really is to be blame for every massacre and that if it really does make a normal teenager go on a killing spree, then massacre would be a weekly event everywhere on earth.

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

Unfortunately massacres are a weekly occurrence around the world. Some don't make it into the news, others are government sanctioned so they're okay…

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
8 years ago

I'm not including country like Israel or any country with high tension going around.
Massacre is those countries doesn't shock anyone.

I'm saying that if video games does make people go psycho, then peaceful places like Australia, UK, Japan, Singapore, Canada etc. will have massacres every week. And worse in the US.


Last edited by Snaaaake on 12/22/2012 3:08:10 AM

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

I think it's foolish to compare the US to 3rd world countries. Compare them to the first world, and the differences are scary.

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
8 years ago

Agree with ya there.

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

"Massacres in those countries don't shock anyone"

It's sad because it is the general consensus of the world. A school in the U.S gets shot up and the whole world worries about it, a school in another country gets blown up, and it's not even news worthy..I suppose that should probably be blamed on video games as well…

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

And I think it's foolish to think it's okay for innocent people to die just because of where they were born. Especially since the weapons that are used to destroy that country usually come from a developed country. Usually provided for profit and political gains…

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

I agree Chinook. But it's especially scary because the world leaders where freedom is a right, where war doesn't touch home soil, and the government protects it's people, these things still happen. THAT'S why it stands out, and it deserves criticism, because we're supposed to be setting the example for the rest of the world.

That's why people pay attention.

But in the third world, of course it isn't ok for innocent to die. But they don't have political power as a democracy to do anything about it. WE do, yet we still can't actually do anything about it… and it's our choice.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 3:43:16 PM

SaiyanSenpai
SaiyanSenpai
8 years ago

It's been my observation that violent people tend to gravitate toward violent games and other forms of media. Not the other way around.

Jed
Jed
8 years ago

I understand that people want answers when something horrible like this happens. Lord knows we all never want it to happen again. But it really makes me sick when people start playing the blame game and use the situation as a platform to further their agenda. If someone doesn't like people having guns they will blame the guns. If they don't like or don't understand videogames they will blame the video games. If they think mentally ill people are dangerous they will blame them. It's like they use those poor children's bodies as a podium to spread their own opinions.

We all know that some media, be it violent games or movies are not meant for children, but they get exposed to them anyway. If media were the cause of the horrible events they are blamed for there would be countless atrocious acts of violence occurring all over the country every day.

Is it games that make people violent? Or are violent people attracted to the violent games?


Last edited by Jed on 12/22/2012 3:23:24 AM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

This is bound to happen every time people sift through the ashes of a disaster looking for answers, but I wish we could get past that, it's a childish way of handling a problem.

tes37
tes37
8 years ago

I will continue to own firearms, because I won't bow to the wishes of the unstable. If someone finds it impossible to act civilized, I should be penalized, yeah that makes sense. People kill other people because they want to, not because it's convenient to do with firearms.

I don't care what the rest of the world thinks about the gun issues in America, they're not governed by our constitution. If you care to read it, you will see why gun ownership is included. The rest of the world is powerless against a corrupt government. We have a chance to retake ours if and when it ever goes rogue. There is no compromising when it comes to keeping your freedom.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
8 years ago

+1

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

But it is convenient to kill when you own a firearm. There's a reason strictness of gun laws are directly correlated to homicide numbers in first world countries. In the cases of gun specific deaths, there's direct causation. I'm not even saying they should be outright banned totally no exceptions (although Japan and Iceland would indicate that might not be such a bad thing), but there needs to be better laws about gun control in the states. Some of the laws there are just asinine. That mass killing in Arizona that hurt that senator or whatever? That guy was 100% within his rights until he opened fire… how do you "protect" yourself against that legally? Columbine had an armed deputy on site the day of that massacre… Lot of luck he had against heavily armed crazies…

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

Tes, maybe you should read your constitution. Keeping a 250 year old constitution for the sake of the fact it's a constitution is stupid. If it makes sense, then fine. But keeping tradition simply because it's a time honored tradition is so incredibly stupid. And last I checked, most of you are no longer in any sort of militia, and you definitely aren't wracked by civil war at this time. It's ancient, outdated by a few centuries as weapons technology has improved exponentially, and well… it's a hillbilly mentality. It simply doesn't keep up with the times over the course of a few centuries! Your president gets that something should be done. No one is even asking you to give up all your guns!! But the first world is literally sobbing and begging you guys to have at least a few REAL guidelines. How about those children's right to free speech or safety or freedom to live life and pursue their dreams as they see fit? The amendment needs an amendment.

I betcha your founding fathers wouldn't have made such a loose-ended constitution if they had any idea "household" weapons could cause the damage they clearly can cause. I'm sorry, but there's nothing semi-automatic about a bayonet and musket.

I love my American friends and relatives. But if your argument is an actual real and respected argument there that holds more water than any real argument, then I'm sorry, but your country is backwards, slow, hypocritical, violent, and governed by tradition. TRADITION is what you are governed by. An IDEAL. A thought… a notion. Not by laws that identify reality… Honestly, wake up and jump ahead by 50 years and catch up already… As if your personal rights to a hobby are more important than realizing that yeah… easy access to guns is NOT a good idea!!!

So tell me… why SHOULD you own guns? REALLY… a good reason. "Because I want to" doesn't count. And protection doesn't count either. Protection is a shotgun that everyone can see so they don't mess with you. The best protection is prevention, not the element of surprise. And since it's unlikely a small army will assault your house, assault rifles don't count either.

So lets hear it… a good reason that means mass murderers should also be able to get a hold of them. Or maybe some changes are necessary afterall…. And while you're at it… tell me why it doesn't happen to the same degree as other first world countries to justify your answer.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 9:51:07 AM

tes37
tes37
8 years ago

Like I said, the rest of the world's opinion is irrelevant on gun issues in our country. Our founding fathers deserve more respect and they get it from those who understand our constitution.

History repeats itself, but we never learn from it. America will go bad eventually, and Americans will be the only ones willing to fight to stop it. Our constitution says our rights are granted to us by God, not man. Peoples rights around the world are granted to them by the state and our government is trying to the same here.

Convincing people to throw out the constitution as being outdated and irrelevant would be a horrible mistake and only evil will come of it. I refuse to live under a government that thinks they own me and I'm willing to die to keep it from happening. Live or die, I still get it my way. I guess the world doesn't have anything worth dying for.

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

Bad example….how other governments chose to run their countries should be irreverent as well, yet how many times has the US gone to war with another country because of it? How many countries has the US army occupied and westernized? If the rest of the world has no say in how you should run your country, then the US should have no say in how other countries are run, but we know that isn't going to happen…

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

Still waiting for a legitimate argument besides "because the founding fathers said so".

My grandfather, my best man and all his brothers, all fought for freedoms in our military. And that freedom on home soil is worth dying for. So don't feed me that bullsh!t. You just don't have a good argument and your only way of combating it is "mind your own business".

Please. I don't have a gun, and i could still kick your a$$. Don't be so self-righteous and ignorant. Use your damn head, tes. You're a smart guy. Try thinking critically about this. My good lord… because you own a gun and I don't, you therefore have more to die for than me? Please… get off your high horse.

I'm still waiting an actual rebuttal… "Because they said so 200 years ago"… Please. THAT'S your argument???

And please… please… tell me… why couldn't the armed deputy at Columbine stop those murderous bastards? The answer to stop gun violence is to arm the populace? Are you serious? How do you not see the problems with that?!


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 3:49:13 PM

tes37
tes37
8 years ago

I don't owe you sh!t Underdog, so get off your high horse. I'll give you my address if you promise to carry out your threats. A year's salary says your girly *ss will go running back to Canada.

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

And tes… if you believe in science… and statistical evidence that actually ends up equating to correlation and CAUSATION… you'd realize the world doesn't have an opinion on guns in the US… they have the answers. I believe MANY US citizens realize this and will fight for it. And guess what… according to you, their opinions do count.

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

lol seriously? If you want a fight, come here. lol I'm not wasting my time. I have a full time job. (But go ahead. PSN is Underdog15. You can give your address if you like. ;p I'll swing by if I ever have a reason to come to the states. We can talk about it like adults if you like. I have a book that explains what that means so you can prepare.) The point of me saying that is because I bet "self defense" use of guns is FAR less than tragedy. Gun related homicides makes up 85% of gun related deaths. Most of the others are suicide. And a tiny itty bitty fraction is "self defense". Besides, it was purely hypothetical. Because I could. It'd be easy too. Just not worth my time. 😉 So aggressive.

Seriously… give me a REAL argument.

Go on. I dare you.

Typical gun-toting american. In the face of an intellectual argument, I'm met with "come say it to my face and my concealed weapon I'll surprise you with."

Oh what's that? You don't HAVE an argument? Oh? Your natural response is to say, "No! I don't wanna! And I don't have to!"

Why don't you just add "neiner neiner" to the end of your argument.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 4:03:01 PM

tes37
tes37
8 years ago

Please. I don't have a gun, and i could still kick your a$$.

You brought it up, but if you don't have the time don't make idle threats to me. I never have threatened anyone on this site ever and you should do the same. There's you an American example that should be easy to follow.

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

Well that escalated quickly….

I do have some thoughts for you though Tes, although, I don't think I can change you're mind on it.

First off not all americans feel they need to own guns, in fact only about 20% of Americans actually do, which means that 80% of the country feels that the government, military and police are enough to protect them. Now of the 20% of the people that do have guns, they own 65% of the guns in America…Really? That means that when, as you put it, America goes bad, the chances that it coming from the 20% is higher then the rest of the country. What are you protecting from? Invasion from other countries? You don't think that you're multi billion dollar military isn't going to be enough to protect you? You afraid you're government will become corrupt? In a lot of countries most of them already are, but even so, is a gun really going to protect you from a government that you're own country voted into office? Terrorism? I don't know if you noticed but the last few attacks didn't involve a gun, and anyone who had one on them couldn't have done anything about them…

Now I do understand that there are some areas in the US, just as there are in other countries that you do feel a need to 'protect' yourself, but guess what? Those areas existed in civilization before the gun. When Cain killed Abel by bashing his brains in with a rock, the answer was not to get a bigger rock and retaliate..

I guess it all comes down to how much you value a life. When you buy a gun to protect yourself or your family, you may see that as a small investment. But as soon as you thumb a bullet into the chamber, that means that whoever you aim that gun at, their life is only worth the price of a bullet, roughly 25 cents…And what if someone else gets a hold of that gun and uses it on your family? Suddenly you're families life all boils down to the price of a bullet you paid for, but hey, at least you did everything you could do to protect them..


Last edited by CH1N00K on 12/22/2012 4:51:45 PM

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

Settle down chum. I never threatened you. I said I don't buy the guns for protection argument. I never said I would get you. I said I could. And it's true. I'm big, fast, agile, and trained in hand to hand combat. But that want my point. I was basically saying need for firearms for protection is a farce of an argument.

I'm still waiting for a real argument. Until you do, I'll just take the double-u on thisone.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 4:21:27 PM

tes37
tes37
8 years ago

There is no argument from me. Just a point that murdering children will not get me to give up my firearms.

You called all Americans stupid and backwards and you think I care to have a conversation with you. To hell with Canada and your low budget combat skills.

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

On the contrary. I've gone out if my way a few times to state it isn't fair to paint Americans with the same brush. And while our military isn't as large a the us, we aren't low budget. We have one of the strongest militaries in the works…

But you hate facts.

I do not think Americans are backwards. I think some international policy, gun laws, and equal rights laws are backwards, yes. But not Americans. In fast I'm encouraged lately to see so many positive changes in many different areas.

Please don't hear what you want to hear.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 12/22/2012 5:05:13 PM

tes37
tes37
8 years ago

When I said low budget combat skills, I was referring to you and not Canada, but I really don't have anything against you or Canadians. I apologize for being harsh, but you said some very insulting things about a lot of good people.

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

No worries. I am a good people, too, but I can be overly vocal on issues that makes me sad or angry. My frustration isn't really with any one person. I just wish there was an explanation for those numbers Beamboom gave earlier. It also doesn't help anyone that there's no closure to this last incident. Like, it just happened. End of story. Nowhere to go from here. My wife's a gentle soul and putthe badness of the victims on our fridge because she wants to pray for them. Lol. But me, I have no answers. I find that remarkably frustrating to not know "why". So I vent, apparently. 🙁 maybe it's cause I'm a parent now, I dunno. But I do feel heartache over this. I'm usually desensitized to news. Bah, anyways…