I get that people will freak out over just about anything on the Internet. I understand that childish behavior is par for the course, and I've resolved to – for the most part – look the other way. As was the case with the Mass Effect 3 hysteria, it's just plain embarrassing.

But this latter "news" is just a little too ridiculous to ignore. An article at PushSquare cited an outcry at the PlayStation Blog regarding recent PlayStation 3 update 4.30. Evidently, a whole lot of people are none too happy. And why? Bricked systems? Games or programs crashing? A general impediment to your entertainment? Nope. An icon. An admittedly annoying icon to be sure, but…an icon .

Essentially what happened is that the update puts a SingStar icon on the XMB, and the size is too large and the positioning is weird. That much, I grant. But to have so many react in such a fashion, to the point where it's a common discussion topic in forums and on message boards, is beyond embarrassing…I just want to hide in a corner and pretend I'm not in the gamer crowd. It makes me want to give up my gamer label. But above all, it makes me view some people with a suspicious glance- If you're freaking out over this , the level of general hostility, disillusionment, and unhappiness roiling about in your veins must be most unpleasant.

Either that, or you really need something else to do. Anything. Just get away from the screen for a while, because you're starting to sound like crazy old ladies who have a stroke if you accidentally move the cat's food dish three inches to the right. So please, just go about your business and try not to make everyone want to run away from you.

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CrusaderForever
CrusaderForever
8 years ago

? Wow, that is truly sad! People are digressing that's for sure! I would expect this type of behavior from the X360 crowd but not the Playstation faithful.

Sol
Sol
8 years ago

It's got nothing to do with console specific crowds. People just like to complain, especially when it comes to change.


Last edited by Sol on 10/27/2012 11:15:35 AM

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

Yet the complaining never ceases on psn. The Xbox has dashboards up the ying yang and everyone is ok with it. Some people, like Ben said, just need to step away from a screen and find a hobby that doesn't involve shooting ai in the face.

SirLoin of Beef
SirLoin of Beef
8 years ago

Didn't take long for the obligatory shot at Xbox 360 players.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
8 years ago

If they weren't such easy targets, it wouldn't happen so often.

SirLoin of Beef
SirLoin of Beef
8 years ago

Indeed Ben. Only Xbox 360 players act immature, right?

Underdog15
Underdog15
8 years ago

um… obviously not if this article is about complaining PS3 owners……………

But in my experience, while I run into an equal amount of babies on both sides of the fence, I definitely run into more mature people on PS3 far more often.

I've also noticed 360 often seems immune to the same types of complaints PS3 might get.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 10/27/2012 4:14:12 PM

Doppel
Doppel
8 years ago

To be fair though, one of Sony's PR representatives acted like a complete jerk to some posters.

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2012/10/23/get-ready-for-singstar-on-the-xmb/#comments

Look at page 2 and page 3. Completely unprofessional, in my opinion.

Bonampak
Bonampak
8 years ago

Over at NeoGaf, whenever people start complaining about ads on the 360's dashboard, 360 fans quickly drown the complaints away by defending the advertising.

In my experience, 360 fans rarely complain… why?… because they pay for their services and don't wanna admit (to the competition) that there is anything wrong with them.

Lord carlos
Lord carlos
8 years ago

Should of given us the option to delete it.

Sol
Sol
8 years ago

Umm… am I missing something? The only thing about the update I noticed was the repositioning of my trophy icon, and it's other trophy-related configurations… Then again, I've been using the MGS4 theme for a while, maybe I haven't noticed it.

PoopsMcGee
PoopsMcGee
8 years ago

I haven't noticed it either…

TheUglyBassist
TheUglyBassist
8 years ago

Yeah, I don't see it either. I looked all over the XMB and nothing. I guess it sits in the game column over your purchased games. At any rate, I'll just leave it alone. To be honest, when I saw the article I thought people were complaining about them moving the trophy icon.

LaasYaNir
LaasYaNir
8 years ago

It's only on the EU XMB, not NA.

AcHiLLiA
AcHiLLiA
8 years ago

Same here Sol.


Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 10/27/2012 5:33:32 PM

Killa Tequilla
Killa Tequilla
8 years ago

The internet should of stayed in the millitary. Obviously it's too much for the world to handle.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

Not too much for this World 🙂

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

I haven't even seen it, but I do hate annoying things. I think the XMB needs a facelift though.

These folks should take advantage of the new permanent lvl 0 hack and change their OS.

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

You need to be on 3.55 to do that level hack you speak of :p.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

Via Forbes: All future games decryptable, no solution possible:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/karstenstrauss/2012/10/25/sony-ps3-hacked-again-all-future-games-decryptable-no-solution-possible/


Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 10/27/2012 12:27:19 PM

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

Yup, still need to downgrade to use it. I already know about all the hacking but unless you are on 3.55 cfw it still won't help. They can hack every game and be online now but still need 3.55 cfw.

Nix50
Nix50
8 years ago

There's a 4.21 CFW out apparently.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Worlds,

Permanent is a very final word.
There have been unpatchable, permanent hacks before that got patched out of existence, I refer you to the previous METLDR key release.
The LV0 keys are equivalent to the previous METLDR hack. What Sony did when that hack happened was to use the LV0 encryption to push a new firmware and bypass that stage in the PS3 loader, and at the same time change the keys for new games.

Now, the LV0 hack is essentially the same thing in the sense that it is a hack at the root level of **software** based encryption in the PS3. However what LV0 does not get you, and can never get you, is the hardware encryption method or hardware key that is burned into the actual CellBE CPU. When a PS3 boots up, a small segment of code initializes directly from the Cell itself into one of the SPEs which is started in a special isolation mode initiated by the hardware. This then starts up the so-called Secure Processing Vault (SPV) which loads the most basic element of the PS3 system software.

The thing about the SPV is that it's a hardware feature, not software. When the System boots it loads it's SPV bootloader directly from the CellBE microcode and uses a hardware key inside the Cell BE to verify anything else that loads and runs within the SPV. SPEs in the CellBE are self contained CPUs with 256KB of their own completely local memory. The contents of the 256KB local store that the SPV has are unreadable by external software, nothing running on any other part of the Cell can read it. The hardware bootstrap and SPV code is hidden and encrypted, it's never decrypted in system memory or any readable CPU memory locations, it all happens inside the secure processing vault.

The SPV can request data from system memory, and it can write to system memory through the Cell itself, but nothing on the Cell can access the internal content of the SPV. The SPV decrypts/validates it's own code and data on the fly. The most devs/hackers can do is force the SPV out of isolation mode, which returns it to the normal SPE mode of execution. However, when this happens the local memory for the SPV is hardware reset before the SPE reverts to non-isolated mode making it impossible to read the content of that memory.

The security of the Cell BE CPU is actually built around the assumption that all levels of system software can and will be compromised. Anything that runs inside the SPV is validated by the SPV before running. So Sony can alter what runs in there, they can replace the entire base loader if they want to, using the SPV as a validation engine. Sony can control what happens inside the SPV regardless of what the hackers do, the hackers have never penetrated the SPV.

The reason this hack only works on earlier firmware is this precise thing. Later versions of the firmware are harder to crack and overwrite because of the alterations Sony has made below the LV0 loader in the firmware. Even if you control the loader mechanism, you can't force an up to date system to load a firmware other than a new Official firmware without first forcing a downgrade and that requires you to scramble the existing firmware.

All CFW past 3.55 rely on forcing the system to downgrade the firmware to 3.55 so it can be replaced with CFW. The system essentially has to be 'bricked' to allow the hacker/user to force a firmware downgrade. The latest CFW does not install on top of any of the official firmwares past 3.6.

Think of it in terms of an onion. Each layer of onion flesh is like a layer of security. Working from the center out you start with the CPU's miro-code loader, the SPV initialization, the SPV code in firmware, the LV0 loader, and so forth all the way out to applications running on the system. The LV0 loader decrypts and authenticates software being loaded from disc or BluRay. the additional layers of security such as the BD encryption are loaded and run by the LV0 loader once it authenticates the software being loaded.

Prior to the release of the METLDR keys the picture was similar;
you start with the CPU's miro-code loader, the SPV initialization, the SPV code in firmware, the LV0 loader, then the METLDR and so forth all the way out to applications running on the system. The METLDR did what LV0 does now, and LV0 was there to authenticate packages running at the highest CPU level available outside the SPV. That older loader still exists for compatibility with older games. I don't know whether Sony ever implemented a white-list of checksums for official firmware, but the thought was that they would to prevent new games re-signed with the broken keys from being loaded.

So now that LV0 is broken, all that remains is the SPV. However breaking the SPV would require one of two things. Either someone would have to break the encryption of the SPV code using pure brute force methods since there is no algorithm or public key to start with – this would take more computing resources and time than is feasible. Alternately, the information would need to leak from within Sony or IBM. It's not going to come from IBM, and I would be willing to bet that the actual method and key used within the SPV is known to literally a handful of people. So a leak is highly unlikely.

Based on what I know of the Cell SPV and system software design I would do something similar to what Sony did before to fix this – if I were Sony. The problem that they have is that the LV0 encryption is compromised, and they need to be able to safely and securely deliver new encryption to the system. Because LV0 is used as the primary loader it is used by the firmware installation process to load, decrypt and execute firmware updates. This in turn means that future firmware updates are compromised.

If I were Sony (which I'm not) I would issue multiple firmware updates that use techniques similar to viruses to deliver a payload consisting of a new loader piece by piece in the firmware. Each iteration would add a piece of the jigsaw, but would remain encrypted. The final move would be to send a firmware that 'detonates' that payload by using the SPV to execute and install a replacement lv0 loader. It need not be perfect on the first pass, it just needs to be sufficient to allow Sony to push a firmware with a completely new loader mechanism afterwards. Each update acts as a stepping stone. This has been done before by other security software, and it's not impossible that Sony already put some or all of the pieces in place as a surety against a LV0 hack. I mean let's face it, if you design your system around a CPU that makes the assumption that all system software including the system hypervisor will be compromised, you can't exactly assume no hack will happen. Nor can you make that assumption after the previous METLDR hack. So it would seem somewhat logical to me to have additional safeguards available to allow you to thwart new attacks.

That's just me being logical and using my own knowledge of Cell, system software, security and OS design. I'm not saying that I could implement it personally, nor am I saying that I have the math gifts needed to work on the kinds of encryption/decryption involved in any of this. However, I do know a thing or three about this field, and I do know what's possible and impossible. I also know that if anyone inside Sony said to their management after Firmware 3.6 that the system was safe and would never be hacked again, they needed to be fired then, and certainly now. No system security professional would say that the system was permanently secure. Despite my faith in the hardware level protections of the SPV, I know that if brute force methods were used it's possible to break that too, someone could literally get lucky and find the key earlier rather than later. However, that is very, very unlikely. It's even less likely than someone using an electron microscope to view the Cell at the gate level and somehow reverse engineering the design sufficiently to read the hardware key. But consider how unlikely that is and you get the idea of why I feel that the process is safe.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

people are really complaining about an icon to the point where it gets news? Thats pretty sad (no not the news but the fact that THAT many people are whining about it that its actually gotten attention).. Ive only seen one person say anything about it, I had no clue it was THIS bad lol…

but then again Singstar is an EU app, Im a US ps3 user and thus 95% of the people I know or the sites I congregate at are also PS3 users so it makes sense that Id only notice 1 or 2 people complaining about it.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
8 years ago

Hmm, I never even noticed it. I will have to take a look again once I go on.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
8 years ago

Ah never mind, it's on the EU PS. Derp. lol


Last edited by Clamedeus on 10/27/2012 12:34:06 PM

cve312
cve312
8 years ago

I just checked and I don't see any icon like that. I do have system update version 4.30 but I don't even see it . People tend to freak out about the stupidest things these days.

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

I noticed it and just thought 'ooh neat' and promptly forgot about it. Some people really need a new hobby, wow! Lol

Corvo
Corvo
8 years ago

what the hell? What singstar icon? All i see is that my trophies were moved and they load up and synch like 10 times faster.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

singstar = EU

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

Duo

It actually shows up if you have a EU account funnily enough. My girlfriend was interested in the game. Now we don't have to buy it lol.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

yeah thats what I meant by EU lol.. EU ps3.. EU account lol

sawao_yamanaka
sawao_yamanaka
8 years ago

I have an American ps3. It showed up when I downloaded a game from that account. Now it is on my US account :p.


Last edited by sawao_yamanaka on 10/27/2012 1:35:26 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

I don't know what Singstar is but it sounds gay.

dmiitrie
dmiitrie
8 years ago

Its a karaoke game.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
8 years ago

I'm glad it's not displayed on the US version, but it's not something that I'd be up in arms about if it were.

I "DO" think that the 4.30 FW update would've provided us all with a much better service had it also put in an automatic trophy synch…
get a trophy, BAM, it also goes automatically into your trophy list at the same time, without the need of you always having to synch it there manually on your own as is the case now.


Last edited by BikerSaint on 10/27/2012 1:30:38 PM

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
8 years ago

This is no way near as embarrassing as the Mass Effect fans epidemic they cause with ME3's ending. I have to admit I found it rather annoying, I have never played Singstar, nor would I want to so the fact that it has been placed on my Game menu is a bit invasive.

What annoyed me more was how they got rid of the Trophy section from the game menu and place it in the network section. Before if I wanted to check my trophies and didnt want to wait for itself to update I could press cancel and look at them, now I have to wait for that sync-up which at times can take up to a minute which is not what you want when you just want to quickly browse your trophies.

It seems these 2 things along with this irritating new PS Store have all just come together in one negative bundle. Ever since I have had the new PS Store everything takes ages to load – sometimes not even loading which really puts me off navigating it.

Ghidora
Ghidora
8 years ago

Hit triangel and choose offline if you dont want to sync but wanna see the list.

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
8 years ago

I just noticed your reply about the trophy list Ghidora. Thanks for the info but it is still annoying that I have to take that extra step now.

556pineapple
556pineapple
8 years ago

I thought I saw something different, but it didn't bother me enough to really notice it. My main complaint with the update is I had to wait a few minutes before I could play some Portal 2 co-op with a friend. Even that's not worth the effort to cry out on the internet (nevermind the fact that I just kind of did :P)

TheCanadianGuy
TheCanadianGuy
8 years ago

Where ? in the XMB ? i haven't seen it anywhere.

Neo
Neo
8 years ago

That's probably because you're a canadian guy :p


Last edited by Neo on 10/27/2012 5:17:47 PM

TheCanadianGuy
TheCanadianGuy
8 years ago

oh haha i figured it was the same all across north america. eh! 😛

DeusExMachina
DeusExMachina
8 years ago

Like Ive said with many subjects on this level of mellow-dramatic behaviour:

If this pisses you off, if you cant handle something like this?! Seriously just kill yourself now buddy, your nor gonna make it in life. I can say without a doubt that life is definately much harder than that.

If you dont either shut the f*ck up or kill yourself your just gonna be a burden on the human species, so theres no point on keeping on living.

Plain and simple.

tlpn99
tlpn99
8 years ago

Got it on mine. I just ignore it anyway. Not even tried it and I don't intend to. Does it bother me no not really like any of the other icons on the Xmb some of them I have not even clicked on as I don't use them lol.

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
8 years ago

I haven't even noticed it yet. lol. The only thing I didn't like with the new update is now when I'm in a game and I want to look at the trophy list it has to sync unlike before when it would just right into it.

homura
homura
8 years ago

I've seen the image, it did make me sick. And about that trophy list, I hope that they will fix it soon. It's good that those over 835 posters who expressed their distaste for the new Singstar icon has been heard.

frostface
frostface
8 years ago

The only thing annoying about it is that it's right under where the disc is on the XMB. Why is that annoying? Well only because when you remove a disc Singstar is automatically selected meaning you've got this really crappy music that goes with the icon every time you eject a disc. But one quick movement of the XMB and it's gone and panic is averted.

What was funny when this happened last week was the reply on EU PS Blog when the person dealing with public relations basically just told everyone to just put up with it. That caused a lot more fun and games from the overly sensitive.

It's old news now, but it was fun while it lasted.

Rogueagent01
Rogueagent01
8 years ago

I wasn't happy that they stopped [email protected](Life With Playstation) but I didn't flip out over it. I hope they actually talk with Seti and bring it back using them instead. I stopped using Folding when I read that one of the packets they ran actually helped Viagra. That was enough for me to say go to he!!…I don't mind donating my internet and electricity to find cures for diseases, but I could care less about peoples impotence issues.

Also I hate the way the trophies need to sync everytime now, that has to be the stupidest change I have seen them do. What's the point? Seriously is there something they could gain from that change? Sure I just read Ghidoras post above and learned that I can turn that off, but why should I have to do that? It should be the opposite way around, I should have to turn that on.

Twistedfloyd
Twistedfloyd
8 years ago

I haven't even noticed, I'm more miffed about the trophy section being changed from being in the game section to the PSN section. But I'm not going to start a message board topic about it. Not going to complain, just it's kind of inconvenient.

But it's something I'll get use to and it's something that I don't really care about because if I get so worked up over a freaking system update that doesn't crash the system or not make something work then you're right Ben, I would need to get a reality check.