Yeah, well, so what else is new?

PlayStation 3 owners are sort of used to being treated like second-class citizens by Bethesda, typically getting inferior versions of multiplatform games and waiting eons for extra downloadable content, while Xbox 360 and PC players are quite well served.

We're still waiting on Dawnguard, the downloadable expansion for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim , but based on what a company representative said in the publisher's forums , it may never show up, even though they are working on it.

"Skyrim is a massive and dynamic game that requires a lot of resources, and things get much more complex when you're talking about sizable content like Dawnguard. We have tried a number of things, but none of them solve the issue enough to make Dawnguard good for everyone. Dawnguard is obviously not the only DLC we’ve been working on either, so the issues of adding content get even more complicated. This is not a problem we’re positive we can solve, but we are working together with Sony to try to bring you this content."

Blah blah blah. This isn't 2007. You've had an entire generation – in fact, an elongated generation when compared to previous eras – to get your act together, Bethesda. I'm not accepting lame excuses, anymore, and I'm usually the first to stand up and defend developers for all their hard work and sacrifices. No other game maker seems to have these ongoing problems with the PS3 at this stage. That should tell you something.

Dawnguard launched back in June for the 360 and was out for the PC in August. PS3 owners…eh, you might see The Elder Scrolls VI before you see any more DLC for Skyrim .

Related Game(s): The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

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BTNwarrior
BTNwarrior
8 years ago

I wish bethesda would do a ps3 to pc exchange program, cause right now Skyrim is unplayable on my ps3 and I don't want to start a new character that will also end up unplayable

bebestorm
bebestorm
8 years ago

For quite sometime Ive thought Bethseda should stop making PS3 games because there is always too many issues and they don't seem interested in improving their skills for PS3.

Doppel
Doppel
8 years ago

I'm actually enjoying Skyrim on my PS3. Sure it drops framerate once in a while, but I never encountered any game breaking bugs… yet.

Currently 25 hours in. I have a bad feeling because my save is creeping toward 6MB now.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

Doppel you shouldn't see any real problems until it's over 9, and a lot of how that builds up depends on how you play you approach the game.

matt99
matt99
8 years ago

My file's over 11mb now and there are no major problems, it just takes a little longer to load

bebestorm
bebestorm
8 years ago

I only play Bethseda games on pc since Fallout 3.

frylock25
frylock25
8 years ago

my file is over 13mb and i have no problems playing it. rarely have i had freezing or framerate issues. also i am about 360 hours into it.


Last edited by frylock25 on 8/31/2012 5:34:48 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

You'll see the most issues if you go very magic heavy with your character.

Lord carlos
Lord carlos
8 years ago

They won studio of the year at the last spike vga,should of been awarded to valve for portal 2!
Portal 2 was perfect on both consoles & pc with cross platform play & chat between PS3 & pc!
It would take bethesda 8 million years to do that with one of their games.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Bethesda should have stuck to PCs.

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
8 years ago

This is exactly how I've felt about them. They should know how to make games work on the PS3 by now. Nobody else seems to have these problems. The thing that sucks about them treating PS3 gamers like this is that it'll hurt sales on Dishonored even though it was developed by someone else. People are afraid to buy games with Bethesda's name on it.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

No, they should be better at their job.

DazeOfWar
DazeOfWar
8 years ago

My comment want supposed to be a reply to yours highlander. Guess that's whathappens when I user my phone to comment. Lol

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

No problem Daze.

I agree though. There is no excuse for a developer that has the talent that Bethesda claims to have to still be producing such inferior PS3 versions of their games.

I've said this since the beginning of this gaming generation. All the whining about PS3 being hard and whining about memory is nothing more than excuses. The system is not too hard, it's simply not PC like. If you put effort into understanding the architecture you can make the thing sing like no other. I'm a technologist, computer scientist, programmer, analyst, and of course gamer. I know that the adage "a poor workman blames his tools" has never been more true than in technology. The system is capable of anything you program it for. Poor design, poor testing, poor debugging, insufficient optimization and just plane rushing things are the reasons for poor software. The hardware and software development environment are simply tools.

It's not like we lack examples of incredible exclusive or first party games for PS3 that demonstrate what the platform is capable of in the hands of a good developer. Even with Multi-platform games that has become true. Valve demonstrated this when it finally embraced PS3, look at how their games on the platform have improved over the half-assed ports of their earlier games.

There is no room for excuses, if you can't get it right on the PS3 it's because you're simply not working hard enough on it.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

What have you programmed, Highlander? And is any of it available in public?

Regarding your post: If you are a professional programmer you know that it's not just a question of dedication and talent but just as much a question of budgets. When one platform is notably different than the rest it requires a lot of additional time just to get your code to work properly. And only hobbyists can keep working on something "forever".

It simply becomes a question of how much time you *can* put into a project before it's starting to cost too much. There are always deadlines, always other tasks waiting in the pipeline.

A practical comparison that you may know of: Internet Explorer 7. That browser is a *nightmare* to create webservices for. It simply behaves completely different than all other browsers.

Now, it is not impossible to make a site work on IE7 too. Not at all.
But oh my God how much extra work, time and trial'n'error it takes. So it all boils down to: How much time *can* we spend on customizing our code in order to make our service identical also for IE7 users.

Before you dismiss this comparison with that IE7 suck and cant be compared and so on, give it a minute or two and think about it. Cause this really is how it is with a platform that differ too much from the "norm", no matter if that platform is "better" or "worse" than the norm.


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/31/2012 12:49:46 PM

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
8 years ago

Beamboom: I have to say, I really don't give a good goddamn about all that. NO other game maker this generation has had such consistent and downright embarrassing problems with the PS3, and NO developer NOW is having anything even close to these issues.

Budget, yes. Deadlines, yes. I get it. So do other companies. They manage their business and somehow make it work. If you don't have the resources or time to successfully put out something for all platforms, which was the initial goal, then don't do it. A shoddy job is a shoddy job. Bethesda doesn't deserve the luxury of excuses.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Beamboom, why should I justify my work experience to you? The ability (or lack there of) show by Bethesda has got nothing to do with my work, and 100% to do with theirs.

You're inferring a lot by throwing budgets out there as another excuse for poor coding by Bethesda. This isn't about budgets it's about a developer's ability to work on a platform. I won't take your example of IE7 either. Bethesda has pushed out products with fundamental flaws. They have consistently lagged on PS3 in terms of timely delivery. If you want to stick the the budget aspect of this, if the PS3 team is under resourced compared to the other teams, who is responsible for that? If additional PS3 technical expertise is required, but not obtained, who is responsible for that? If your PS3 products are consistently below par in quality terms, and late and you fail to take the action needed to fix the underlying problem, who's fault is that?

One way or the other it comes back to Bethesda and their ability to handle the PS3. It doesn't matter whether it's skill, experience, resources, management or a combination of these things, the problem is that Bethesda handles the PS3 poorly.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

wohah – now that triggered a lot of aggression.

Highlander, I didn't ask for you to justify anything at all, I were genuinely curious as to what you actually do. I am a programmer too. Maybe we had similar backgrounds or experience, something in common we could enjoy discussing later, was all.
Usually people are happy to tell about their job and what they are into. Are you a frontend programmer? backend? DB-coder? Web-programmer? What?

Not sure if I can lower your guard here in any way but I can go first by showing you my latest spare time project, who you find at stompd-dot-org. It's a client for an audio server with some rather special features. Not the worlds most complicated piece of work, but still. I think it's cool. 🙂

In regards to Bethesda I was not out to defend or excuse anyone or anything, I just wanted to shed some light on a factor that few seem to think of when these topics are discussed.

Lord knows I've been involved in a *lot* of projects where we could wish we had more time. And these days we've experienced many issues with apps for the Android platform, due to the various versions and hardware specs that is out there. It really is a vasp nest right now. Our biggest challenge in these regards is to get our customers to understand the testing required for those apps compared to iOs apps. It simply needs much more throughout testing.

So that's a glimpse into my current weekday life. In all friendliness. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 8/31/2012 3:03:52 PM

Axe99
Axe99
8 years ago

In reply to the OP – except Beth release buggy, half-finished games on PC as well. Only reason Skyrim was playable on PC at launch was because PC gamers could get into the console to fix bugs on the fly. And the interface was poor for mouse/kb setups. Modders have helped them, but if modders fix your game, that doesn't make you a good developer!

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Excuse me Beamboom? Aggression? What in my reply can you possibly call aggressive? I pointed our quite directly that there's zero connection between any work I have ever done and Bethesda. I fail to see how that is relevant in any way. I further fail to see why you want to make this a personal issue. Kindly stop.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

"why should I justify my work experience to you" sounds pretty snappy and aggressive to me. And completely unexpected too.

You are the first alleged programmer that I've ever met – *ever* – that don't want to talk about what he actually do. This is *not* how it usually is. It's usually a guaranteed icebreaker, but with you it's an ice builder. And one might ask, why?

You obviously take it personal, but it's not a personal question? It's a professional question. And an innocent one too.
– "What do you do?"
– "Well, I mainly do backend coding in C#".
Wow. Yeah that's real personal…

You must understand that it's you who introduce your own work by claiming you are a "computer scientist, programmer and analyst". You use these titles to add weight to your arguments. Therefore it becomes relevant. It's *you* who make it relevant.
And by doing so you must expect that someone sometime may ask about what exactly it is you actually do, just like we do with others who tell about themselves around here.

And if you actually did work as a programmer, analyst and scientist I don't really see any reason to evade that question. But that's just me.

I don't think I'll ever understand you, Highlander. You are one weird case. Not that I have anything against that – quite the contrary.
But you really don't need to wrap your opinions in fancy titles. They are interesting to read as they are, without the garnish. 😉
Peace out.


Last edited by Beamboom on 9/3/2012 1:48:13 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

I said it before and I'll say it again, this is likely because they can't fix the game breaking problem they created on PS3 with the large save files. How could you go into a DLC with a broken game and expect it to work? The only answer would be to do the DLC early on and people would rather use the characters they have put 100 hours into than start over. Bethesda doesn't fix game-breaking errors.

I honestly hope not having PS3 experts on their team hurts their bottom line as that is the only thing companies seem to understand. Working with Sony isn't enough, Sony gladly helps retarded devs work with their hardware but they aren't going to do the work for them, they need a dedicated team of non-retards or antitards if you will.

Honestly I'd be very happy if they came out and said "Look, we screwed up. We shouldn't be releasing this stuff before we learned our hardware. We're going to skip this DLC for Skyrim and rededicate ourselves to fully understanding Playstation hardware for future Fallout and Elder Scrolls releases. We apologize to our fans."

That would make my day.

Clamedeus
Clamedeus
8 years ago

Well said.

Zeronoz
Zeronoz
8 years ago

Too true! Here for you guys to think:

"We have tried a number of things, but none of them solve the issue enough to make Dawnguard good for everyone." (Source:IGN)

What are these so called "number of things"? What issue?
A PS3 version exist?

"Dawnguard is obviously not the only DLC we’ve been working on either" (Source:IGN)

So when did they start making Hearthfire?

(Mind you, I skipped all news regarding Skyrim simply because I got bored of it)

wackazoa
wackazoa
8 years ago

Well my only problem is that they ever put it out for PS3 in the first place. If they clearly didnt understand how to program for the PS3 (nor seem to have any desire to learn) the dont put it out. This is purely a money grab by ZeniMax to get the extra from the PS3 console.

But I am glad they have at least said it might not come out for PS3. If they were up front about it from the start I think there would be less problems. Now this might give me a reason to buy a used xbox or upgrade my PC.

Ben's right, Beth has had a long time to figure out the PS3 like so many others and everyone else does fine. What is the problem with Beth that they cant ? Thats just lazy and I dont agree with it.

Evil Incarnate
Evil Incarnate
8 years ago

Bethesda doesn't even fix their own games on PC. The fans and PC modders do. Bethesda has always and will always be lazy HOT GARBAGE!

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Like a lot of PC developers, they were hooked on the constant treadmill of better CPU and GPU. So they don't optimize their game, and instead rely the hardware top make their poor software look good. When they came to the console world they ran right into a brick wall. That wall is the fact that on a console, you have a fixed platform and cannot depend on the GPU maker to make a GPU with 50% better performance. You have to actually improve your coding.

xnonsuchx
xnonsuchx
8 years ago

That's what a lot of people just don't get about consoles, Highlander…that a static platform is supposed to both make it easier for devs to not have to consider myriads of hardware configurations and allow (force) devs to spend more time optimizing their code. Some PC devs, instead of welcoming the challenge, just seem to feel frustrated it's not a PC (and bi*** and moan about how limited consoles are) and think they're successful if they just get their PC code ported over and running, avoiding looking at it much further as much as they can. It's kinda pathetic, especially when those devs claim to be as awesome as they think they are.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

The number of companies that complain about it is nowhere near as much as it used to be. I think only Bethesda and Crytek do these days.

I mean, if Valve can triumph and produce awesome games for the PS3 than anyone can, I mean those guys HATED the PS3. Does anyone remember Gabe Newells numerous comments about the ps3? then seen see him standing on stage at a Sony conference announceing the PS3 would be the lead console for Portal 2?

The fact that they haven't fixed their issues they created with the PS3 Skyrim really shows the kind of talent they have in Bethesda management.

Corvo
Corvo
8 years ago

I think its funny because from what ive played the DLC kinda blows. Its short and is about 4 hours long. Sigh… MS has dat moneys that bethseda sure loves.

CrusaderForever
CrusaderForever
8 years ago

Microsoft is hurting right now. I was on the IGN forums and there were Xbots saying "Why are there so many more PS3 articles than X360"? First response was "Because Microsoft doesn't have any exclusive games coming out". Another response, "Because M$ only makes games for XBLA and Kinect".

Microsoft is a dumb company because they have massive amounts of capital and don't seem to buy devs that could give them some exclusives. Microsoft is complacent and it's going to catch up with them even though they are a US console.

CrusaderForever
CrusaderForever
8 years ago

Poor Bethesda, reminds me of Star Wars being in the hands of Lucas!!! You just wish you could take the content and give it to another outstanding dev like Level 5, Rockstar or even Capcom since Dragon's Dogma turned out really good.

I own Skyrim and have played it for 4 hours. I was just getting into it when I heard all the buzz about the save games. So I stopped and thought I would wait for Bethesda to fix. I am going to go through Skyrim but it will be with the cat in a room full of rocking chairs mentality which sucks. 🙁

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

To their credit the various patches have made things better, just not fixed it. The good news is you can still pump in over 70 hours before you start to notice problems.

bigrailer19
bigrailer19
8 years ago

I sincerely love Bethesda games. They are arguably some of the best in their respective genres. There is no arguing that.

But as developers I just can't stick up for them. My love for their games simply isn't enough. Now let's be clear I havnt had the same types of game breaking issues as others admit they have with either Skyrim or Fallout 3. Sure my game froze once in a while but nothing like the complaints ive heard. And honestly I don't remember Elder Scrolls 4 and the Shivering Isles expansion having as many issues that have come up since Falliout 3, so why the poor releases now?

But it goes beyond these issues with a game itself. I can't stand that they seem to disregard PS3 fans. I hate times exclusive content. We purchased their game too, and therefore should get treated the same. The long waits for the Fallout 3 expansions was ridiculous, to have them perform like they did. I never had issues with Fallout 3 but the expansions were horrendous. I couldn't finish them. Shame. Now this? Come on! They just don't treat their fans or customers like they should and that speaks more volume about what type of company they are, than their developing skills.

kraygen
kraygen
8 years ago

I bought skyrim for my pc specifically because they flat out fail when it comes to ps3. The sad thing is, they really don't even care.

Snaaaake
Snaaaake
8 years ago

Not an excuse when even Valve did theirs.

SCREW BETHESDA AND THEIR BUG FEST!

Jawknee
Jawknee
8 years ago

This is by far one of the most inept and incompetent developers in the industry.

Oxvial
Oxvial
8 years ago

I knew this was going to happen, I'm happy that I'm not a fan of their franchises I only bought Oblivion and returned the game in less than 3 days.

BTW I thought this was Arnold, I'm impressed Ben finally isn't defending Bethesda o_o!


Last edited by Oxvial on 8/31/2012 2:24:54 PM

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
8 years ago

Things like this is why I don't buy Bethesda games until after they've reached the "used" $10 bargain bins, and only for their GOTY titles.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

It's too bad Bethesda's name will be on Dishonored as publisher, they should take it off to help sales 😉

Axe99
Axe99
8 years ago

Aye, too right – for me, a 'Bethesda game' is ambitious in scope, but on a technical level poorly designed and implemented. It's got to be a corporate/cultural issue, because they do it again and again, regardless of of platform. I never buy a Beth developed game at launch (on PC or PS3 – note that Dishonored is only published by Beth), and Skyrim has only reinforced that approach.

Akuma_
Akuma_
8 years ago

It is a corporate issue for sure.

matt99
matt99
8 years ago

Most of bethesda's games are amazing…if they work. Which usually means PS3 users don't enjoy the full potential of Bethesda's games.

Also, go Highlander! You should write an article detailing exactly why (technically speaking) Bethesda's excuses are invalid. And then we can get every ps3 user to email, tweet and even mail it in to bethesda…just so they know we can see through their BS 😛

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
8 years ago

Everybody needs to re-tweet & Facebook this thread, and put it on any other social sites as well.

Then once Bethesda sees the groundswell of displeasure against them being displayed everywhere, then hopefully it just might shame them into hiring some people that actually know the PS3's architecture well.

And I've already done my part to spread this across the net.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
8 years ago

I guess I get to eat my words from a few days ago. Any problem can be solved with enough dedication and if you have a team of hundreds; well then it falls to either laziness or utter ineptitude. Sure, Skyrim was screwy at launch, but they managed to create a workaround to get it running and now they claim to not be able to get the DLC running at all in spite of the fact that they managed it with Oblivion and Fallout 3 (with questionable quality, but it still ran). BS. The engine is obviously tailored to a PC architecture and that causes them problems but it's no excuse. Most every other developer has managed to get their s**t sorted out in the past six years but Bethesda is sticking to the same worn out ideas that everyone suffered from in the beginning. Just do the bloody job.

TL;DR. Bethesda suck. I'm going to need proof that they can do their job properly before picking up their next game as they deserve to lose out.

Hynad
Hynad
8 years ago

I think many of you fail to realize the unmatched scope of that game, and how limited the RAM in the PS3 actually is. 256 of RAM, and 256 of Video RAM is utterly ridiculously low for that kind of game.

If Sony had made its memory shared between the CPU and the GPU like Microsoft did, we wouldn't have as much problems with third party games looking and faring worse on the PS3.

But of course, the faults for the PS3's architecture falls on Bethesda's hands. -_-


Last edited by Hynad on 8/31/2012 6:52:01 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

That's why you load the bulk of it onto the Cell cores like everybody else 😛

Hynad
Hynad
8 years ago

Wow, you sure don't know how it works. ha ha!

bigrailer19
bigrailer19
8 years ago

I don't fault them for their developing skills as much as I do their business practices. I've had either really good luck with the majority of their games or people are blowing this out of proportion. Honestly I think it's a little of both, but I'm not saying people are lying in any way.

But regardless, yes Skyrim and all Bethesda games for that matter are huge. But so are a lot of other games that run pretty good. LA Noire was pretty big, and actually had more going on in the map than the long stretches of scenery in Bethesda games. I mean there is a lot of open world games that run just fine. But I see where you're going, I really do. Nothing compares to their games in the size and scope.

But let's be fair. We don't hear many developers or anyone else now at this point, saying anything about having difficulties with the PS3's or it's architecture except for Bethesda and… You!


Last edited by bigrailer19 on 8/31/2012 8:07:57 PM

Rogueagent01
Rogueagent01
8 years ago

Ok…then explain why they have very similar issues on the PC side? You don't have those restraints there and yet they have logged almost as many bugs.

Yeah…try like Bethesda to put the blame on Sony though 99% of the other developers make their games run just fine. Why don't you just blame us the fans as it has to be our fault too for wanting to collect everything in the game, or because we want to play as a mage.

Bethesda is without a doubt one of the most incompetent developers that has ever been in the industry. I have games from them going back to the PS1 that have game breaking glitches, this did not start with this generation it just finally affected enough people to make it known to the general public. Bethesda's ideas have always been grand in design, it is just that they literally have no clue how to execute it properly.