The upcoming Tomb Raider reboot, which is slated to launch in March, really turned heads at this year's E3.

A pretty invigorating trailer started comparisons to Naughty Dog's vaunted Uncharted franchise, and most were impressed with Crystal Dynamic's new effort. But not everyone likes the new direction the developers have taken with the iconic protagonist.

After executive producer Ron Rosenberg told Kotaku that players are going to want to "protect" Lara, a few gamers expressed extreme displeasure over this move. Rosenberg even says there will be times when scavengers attempt to rape Lara, which certainly didn't go over well, either. Here's part of the first ranting gamer comment:

"Okay, WHAT KIND OF FU**ING BULLSHIT IS THIS?! Seriously? FU**ING SERIOUSLY? Lord where do I fu**ing start, how bout "They're more like 'I want to protect her.' There's this sort of dynamic of 'I'm going to this adventure with her and trying to protect her.'

So lets see…let's remove Lara from being fully badass to weak 'Whedon-flavored female hero' bullsh** because you know…that's exactly what I want to see in Lara. Not a confident badass fully aware of her sexuality. Nope, can't have that…"

Then, in response to the part where Rosenberg said Lara will become a "cornered animal" in some situations, and will have to "fight back or die" (in reference to the rape possibility), the gamer just totally freaks out:

"So things she's going to go through that no man will go through or face those 'challenges' are and seemingly ONLY include 'rape' because fu** all, that's how women get character ladies in gentlemen, she has to be raped or attempted raped etc…no way in holy FU**ING hell is she going to gain that development through any other FU**ING means from being shot at, punched, attacked, survive a plane crash, betrayal, set on fire…nope, rape. Perfect, that's the 'Go to' for female development to make her 'Harder and badass.'"

Although harsh, it appears quite a few agree with that viewpoint. It seems to be the underlying "gore/porn" aspect of the game that is really pissing people off, even if such a term or description isn't entirely accurate based on what we've seen. At first, most were intrigued by the new Lara but now, after learning a bit more, it seems a ton of gamers aren't just annoyed, they're legitimately offended.

What's your take?

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Temjin001
Temjin001
8 years ago

haha, that was an entertaining read. I think the new Lara game looks great. I see a number of technical things I hope they polish up before release. but other than that and concerning this backlash. It's pretty much to be expected. It seems any change to any gaming franchise inevitably brings out the worst in some people.
I don't really get the porn statement in the gore/porn. I do see more gore and more horror elements which I'm not particularly fond of, but I don't suspect it'll be anything more than I can handle. Anyway, I look forward to trying this one out. I really don't think this newer Lara is replacing the existing one. I think it's been said this is the one that molds Lara into the figure everyone knows she is now.

FatherSun
FatherSun
8 years ago

I agree with you! Proportions are being blown! Its all bullshit! Making it seem like "GAMES" are exclusive in the RAPE/Female development argument! It's movies, music, art and society itself that make these portrayals. I mean really, how many games even have these types of situations? I cannot recall off the top of my head but I wouldn't even attempt to count how many movies, songs, paintings, web videos whatever include RAPE or other heinous crimes for that matter.

Games should not be singled out in this argument! Its a fact of life! Human nature is sick. Either do something about or get over it. If you want to hide an be oblivious to crime of any negativity please do so. Go ahead keep your blinders on. Just remember that ignorance can be just as great a crime as the acts themselves. But for Gods sake! Do not condemn those who can differentiate games from reality!


Last edited by FatherSun on 6/13/2012 6:54:32 PM

Sir Dan
Sir Dan
8 years ago

That's one uptight "gamer". Probably should stick with Pong.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

umm its a ORIGIN story.. her being vulnerable makes sense to anyone over the age of 18 who has minimal intelligence.. Lara didnt burst from the womb being a badass.. something had to PUSH her to that point.. and this game (hopefully) shows how she went from weak, normal, "everyday" girl to the badass shes portrayed in in the other T games… makes perfect sense to me.. I mean look at the Uncharted 3 "past" segments.. was Drake a badass in those? nope he was a scared little kid who couldn't even point a gun at someone without trembling. now look at him hes practically rambo lol

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

So, you're content that they have to depict multiple instances where Lara is subjected to attempted rape? Presumably if the player fails to protect her, she's actually raped. Prigin story or not, this is exploiting something that should never be exploited. In act the only people I know of that *do* exploit rape – other than rapists (may they rot in jail until they literally rot), is the porn industry.

So, you're OK with that? In a video game? Really?

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

Oh come on Highlander you know you're a fan of RapeLay!

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

a) im ok with realism in video games.. if that realism includes rape then sure.. at least that proves games are "evolving" "growing up" a opposed to being "just for kids" like 90% of the adult population would act if a 30 year old male told them they play video games.. now would I ALLOW my character to get raped if it was an option? of course not… and honestly I dont think it WILL be as option.. Im sure itll be like that stupid scene on Ninja Gaiden 3 where as guy is pleading for his life an you stand over him.. as if you have the option to kill him or let him live.. except you can NLY kill him to proceed… the only other option being to continually sit at the one screen watching him plead… you cant just walk away. lol

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

besides to reiterate on my point of realism… lets say your a woman that gets stranded on an island.. barely surviving and looking like you just lost a fight with a bull… then you run into a group of bad man.. all males… whom are thieves, pirates or whatever the heck illegal activities theyre conducting there… they see this woman, scared, alone and hurt.. do you honestly NOT think at least ONE of them would try to rape her? remember these are BAD men were talking about.. not some native village laras just stumbled into.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

oh so 'BAD men' are involved so it's OK? I get the point about the scene possibly conveying story or character when it appears once. It can be a stark and brutal reminder of the realities of her situation. I get that. But why include more than one instance? That is unnecessary and smells of exploitation rather than artistic integrity. I don't like it either way. But like a movie, if a scene is artistically justified, that's one thing. That justification breaks down when the same plot 'device' is reused. It also tends to make it 'routine' especially as this is a video game that may well include multiple replays, especially of the character dies. To me that makes the inclusion of such a scene even more concerning.

Neo_Aeon666
Neo_Aeon666
8 years ago

@ Highlander

*Presumably if the player fails to protect her, she's actually raped.*

No thats not how it goes. If you fail to protect her you FAIL and have to do it again until you can do it like the story is supposed to be.

Only in your twisted mind can you imagine she would get raped but the story says otherwise and that is why you have to do it again until you can protect her.

I can't wait for this game to witness the forging of a badass heroine.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

yeah youre right if the rape things is "normal" or happens more than once in the game THEN you have a valid point but Im pretty sure thats only gonna be a one time thing.. besides there are worse thing.. what about that movie with the full blown, unedited, explicit detail having 8 minute long rape scene? it was a MOVIE and yet it was so "well done" (for lack of a better phrase) I had a hard time convincing myself that that WASNT real…. that being said Lara getting rape don tomb raider would be nothing to be after seeing that movie.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Which movie has a scene like that? I can say for sure I haven't seen it, nor will I.

slugga_status
slugga_status
8 years ago

I'm actually rather offended that they would even include that in a video game. I have a relative that is a female who grew up playing Tomb Raider games..I can only imagine how female gamers feel about it..

At some point there has to be the realization that not everything needs to be included in a game. Whether or not it's one instance or multiple..

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

Watch Irreversible, it's very similar to Memento in that it is played backwards. Its won several awards and is critically acclaimed.

Oh and it contains a rather lengthy and gruesome rape scene.

Other movies that come to mind are
The Accused (Jodi Foster won an Oscar)
The Shawshank Redemption
American History X
A Clockwork Orange

There are many more…


Last edited by LimitedVertigo on 6/13/2012 2:31:33 PM

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Thank you LV for a short list of movies to avoid.

duomaxwell007
duomaxwell007
8 years ago

Irreversible is the movie.. as for the other movie she listed.. who HAS seen american history x? and those movies only have "implied" or non graphic rape.. (i.e you know he/she is being raped but you dont actually see it and its over in like less than a minute)… unlike Irreversible where you gotta stare it it full blown, unedited with 100% graphic detail to the point where you can see the female reproductive organ tearing and scars afterwards for 8 minutes

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

"she listed" huh?

I'm pretty sure most people here have seen American History X which is not implied but shown rape including lots of blood. That goes for plenty of movies out there. I only listed a few (which took me all but a minute).

Whether the rape is shown or implied is moot. You think they're going to show the rape in Tomb Raider the videogame?

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

"( but you dont actually see it and its over in like less than a minute)"

Hee,hee, LV did you know your sex life was like a Movie rape scene?


Last edited by CH1N00K on 6/13/2012 3:30:46 PM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

Oh come on!

yes 🙂

YashaZz
YashaZz
8 years ago

I completely agree with duomaxwell007.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

I have to agree with the sentiment if not the vitriolic nature of it's delivery. Why do video games need to use the specter of your character being raped? I mean seriously, you want to protect your character anyway, so why do e need to bring the porn/gore aspect into this thing? I do also agree that Lara Croft is not a weak character. If they make her a weak simpering character that you want to protect, they are fundamentally altering the nature of the game and character. The game as an outright adventure series with a strong heroine. Now it seem it's to be a bit more of a survival horror game with a character that is in danger of being sexually abused if the gamer doesn't take care of things. That seems kind of pathetic. Plus, it also seems to me that once again we can have violence and even sexual violence depicted in games, but sexiness is beyond the pale.

This bit in particular troubles me; "Rosenberg even says there will be times when scavengers attempt to rape Lara…". To me that says that they are so bankrupt for ideas that they are deliberately and repeatedly exploiting sexual aspects of the character and rape to generate excitement. How F%^king bankrupt as a society are we now that we need to include multiple attempts to rape a character in a video game just to make it exciting and entertaining. Rape isn't entertaining, it's not a source of entertainment it's a violent violation of a person's body, mind and self. It destroys people, and I am sickened that the gaming industry would use it in this manner.

I know one thing, I will not be buying this game.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

Games have become quite realistic and most depict murder so why not rape too?

matt99
matt99
8 years ago

While I agree rape should never be exploited, I don't think they're exploiting it in this instance. From my understanding the devs are trying to create a realistic gritty experience and realistically rape would be a very real danger for a girl who is dealing with those types of people. Now whether games should be that realistic is another debate. Having said that, if attempted rape is something that happens repeatedly throughout gameplay then there's something wrong…but if it's a one time thing as part of a cutscene or something and it's used to build up the character then I think it's okay. Much like Lisbeth Salander in the Girl With the Dragon Tattoo.

In any case it is a very delicate issue and maybe they should have stayed away from it.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

Is it necessary to include multiple instances? Would not one be sufficient to get the point across? I see the point that you and Duo make about the inclusion of such a scene to convey a specific element of the story and setting. However, I don't see why more than one instance is needed. That is what to me seems like they are including them for reasons other than advancing the story.

Neo_Aeon666
Neo_Aeon666
8 years ago

I don't see why people would have to judge this. That is Lara's story, not yours. This is how they want it to be. There are WAY WAY WAY worse movies out there (critically acclaimed ones at that) and we perceive them as *drama* and give em an OSCAR.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

I don't want to get into this too much but I'm starting to think you may have personal reasons for being against this Highlander. Which I'm obviously okay with but I think you're making a bigger issue about this then need be.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

No, I don't have any particular persona reasons, though I know people that do. I do have a pretty strong moral code, and I feel that the use of rape scenes in movies, on TV and in video games has increased in frequency, and in my opinion that devalues the offense, it makes it seem more ordinary and less extreme and extraordinary.

Tell you what though. Since so many people here apparently haven't got a problem with it. I'll do what society wants to do with the crime itself. I'll shut up and let it pass, sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away.

I am done with this.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 6/13/2012 2:21:21 PM

Comic Shaman
Comic Shaman
8 years ago

Highlander, where are you getting this "multiple instances" of rape attempts? It sounds to me like it was said that Lara will have many times where she feels like a cornered animal… and the way I see it, ONE of those times will be the attempted rape shown in the trailer.

Because it seems like the "multiple instances" part is really bugging you. I can't be sure 'til we see the final product, but don't think that Lara is going to be hurtling from one attempted rape to another in the game.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

Oh come on, it's not like you to give up so easily. I'm enjoying the discussion. We've yet to even play the game so I don't think you're being very fair in your argument of the supposed rape scene.

slugga_status
slugga_status
8 years ago

Comparing it to what happens in movies are not the same at all. There are some things that just shouldn't be in video games..This is something that is despised and disgusting..Even if it's just the attempt, it doesn't belong..

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

@ Comic_Shaman

Quote from article, direct from Rosenberg;

"Rosenberg even says there will be times when scavengers attempt to rape Lara…"

The word times is plural, not singular.

@LV, I am not giving up, I am stopping before I say something that will get me banned.

@Slugga, I agree.

CH1N00K
CH1N00K
8 years ago

If it is multiple scenes, I can see Highlander's point. Giving her the opportunity to fight off one perverted rapist, shows her character. Having to do it multiple times doesn't really add anything more to it except degrade the whole experience of the game.

If that is the route they want to go, they may as well just dress Lara up in a Japanese school girl outfit, stick her on a Tokyo train during rush hour and throw in a tentacle monster for fun….

But as none of us have seen the game yet, I think it's too early to judge, but I'd like to think that the developers have enough common sense to be careful when dealing with sensitive issues such as this…

Comic Shaman
Comic Shaman
8 years ago

Ah, didn't see that part. We'll see how it's executed in the game, but I do agree that it makes a difference if they keep using it over and over again.

matt99
matt99
8 years ago

Ultimately I think it depends on how it's done, so I will reserve judgement on the appropriateness of the game until I play it.

comicozi
comicozi
8 years ago

@highlander

complaining about rape in a GAME! come on GROW UP!! if you dont like or see a need for it then DONT play/buy it. noone wants to hear hear your moral BS.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
8 years ago

@comicozi

Oh come on. How f*&king depraved is our society that the people objecting to the inclusion of rape scenes in games have to defend themselves over that objection?

YOU'RE telling ME to grow up?

Unbelievable. I honestly cannot believe that moral compasses are so screwed up in this day and age.

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

Highlander I respect you too much to just troll the issue but I think you are being a little unfair. It's okay to object to rape in a videogame, I have no problem with that BUT I don't understand how someone that's fine with violence can object to sexual assault.

Where do we draw the line when it comes to the types of assaults depicted in games? I mean I've played a lot of games and I've seen some really messed up stuff going on in some AAA games.

Is your biggest issue with this that you don't think it will be done in a responsible way?

comicozi
comicozi
8 years ago

Again GAME… FAKE NOT REAL…

Shams
Shams
8 years ago

Violence is of various levels, including sexual assault. For example, Mario jumping on a goomba is probably one of the lowest levels of violence. Something more graphic, yet still stylized, might be Krato's in a QTE. As violence becomes less stylized and more realistic in nature and depiction, thus the higher levels. Sexual assault is in one of those levels. Aside from that for parents, it is simply a doubly loaded event to guard their underage children from watching. Of course, sexuality by itself, is a different story.

Jawknee
Jawknee
8 years ago

"I am done with this."

LOL! Classic.

bebestorm
bebestorm
8 years ago

Im a woman and Im not offended at all after E3 the new TR would be a great movie on Lifetime. Lara is no longer the cartoony its the real world.Lara is young and will become more in the future. There are similarities with uncharted but at the same time very much Un-Uncharted with the open world,exploration,hunting etc.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

woha, hold on there, "the open world,exploration,hunting etc." -> Is there any proof of this being part of the game? From what little I have seen it looked like extremely linear gameplay, much ala Uncharted?


Last edited by Beamboom on 6/13/2012 12:20:35 PM

bebestorm
bebestorm
8 years ago

It was said that after the tutorial your free but of course the story is linear. Just Google it because it would be rude of me to mention another site here and check out youtube. When I saw the video of her hunting it reminded me of Red Dead.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
8 years ago

Early on we read that this was going to be an open world atmosphere on this island.

Beamboom
Beamboom
8 years ago

Oh wow, if they somehow managed to combine something even *remotely* like Red Dead with cinematic story telling ala Uncharted, well then this game just climbed tenfolds on my barometer, we talk about something close to a revolution here.

To be honest I can't really believe that, but boy do I hope I am proven wrong.


Last edited by Beamboom on 6/13/2012 3:00:45 PM

jimmyhandsome
jimmyhandsome
8 years ago

I'm assuming they're not going to show the rape in-game? Or are they? I'm picturing the screen just going black as if you were to die. I don't have any kids or a wife so I don't have to worry about scarring any women or children in my home, but I don't necessarily want to hear the audio of that. And if this is ok, then why do people freak out over boobies in-game?

The game looks amazing so I can't wait to play it regardless.

CaptRon
CaptRon
8 years ago

Meh, never cared for this series and I doubt I start now.

cLoudou
cLoudou
8 years ago

I never did either but this reboot has me intrigued. Plus the talk of rape sealed the deal….

…Kidding on the last statement of course.

Neo_Aeon666
Neo_Aeon666
8 years ago

Yeah thats because Lara always felt like an empty busty babe XD

You should not compare this with previous entries. It looks amazing and I can't wait for this game.


Last edited by Neo_Aeon666 on 6/13/2012 1:36:15 PM

LimitedVertigo
LimitedVertigo
8 years ago

What's turned me off about this game is the complete lack of exploration in the game. It's basically Uncharted now. What I always liked about Tomb Raider was the enormity of the environments and the puzzles. Now it looks like a very linear game heavy on action and scripted fight scenes.

yay?