It's what anonymity does. It brings out the worst in just about everyone, especially those of a certain age. And it just so happens that such ages are part of the targeted demographic for game makers.
During a time before the Internet, when gamers could only rely on their video game magazines and discussions with fellow fans at school, the only hostility to exist would come during a particularly intense game of Contra . " Stop dying; oh my God, you suck !" Yeah, things could get pretty heated when two would-be buddies were seated next to each other and engaged in a pitched battle to save the world. For kids, that was pretty damn important.
But that was about it. Now, with the vast majority of the gaming culture online, and the explosion of online multiplayer gaming, things are dark…much darker than they've ever been. While there are still plenty who simply wish to have some fun, the communities, forums, and comment sections of many a popular website are jammed with superiority complexes, lecturers, and overall douchebags. Or rather, it's the way they are when online; there isn't a sudden influx of douchebags in the world. No no, it's what they become when online. They don't walk up to random strangers in the street and punch them in the head for their opinion on the Mass Effect 3 ending. At least, I assume that didn't happen.
Furthermore, because there's no need for respect, dignity, or civility when online (when there are no consequences and repercussions, humans are always at their very "finest"), and those involved are typically at an immature age anyway, there's just no stopping the snowballing hatred and imbecility. I keep thinking that the reason professionals involved in other entertainment industries (movies, music, etc.) will never take us seriously is simple- They need only look online at the childish state of the gaming group and dismiss us all as kids who "just need to grow up." Yeah, well, we do. But it probably won't happen any time soon.
Bear in mind that this is not an attack on gamers, but more on the Internet. It has changed people; there's no denying that. And when something like video games is such a dominant online subject…well, it's like being exposed to an infectious disease that can only be cured by sunlight and normal association with three-dimensional peers. That tends to bring people back to earth, if only for a short while.
I can deal with morons on the internet while playing games, but one thing I can't at all is cheaters who ruin everything.
That's why I refuse to go on forums for the most part anymore. Too many negative and just ridiculous people who want to ruin everyone else's good time.
The internet can make people jaded and just downright mean. I'm all for discussing the strengths and weaknesses of any game, but when people are just negative with no just cause and troll, troll, troll it's just absurd.
Ben i used this to share with others. Its sad its not just in gaming its everywhere. Cheating makes enjoying the gaming experience hard…very hard (example MW2…im sure there are plenty more)
You can pretty much count down when the bombs are about to drop online (particularly the word fag). You see someone on your team being shot at, he's about to die, and you countdown "3, 2, 1…" and then when he dies on 1 you hear any sort of variation of the word "FAG" coming from your headset. Then of course he'll keep on saying different variations until he respawns and needs to shift his focus back to actually playing the game.
Maybe something like this:
"FAG! What a fag. Seriously only fags do that. Goddamn faggot. Faggity fag fag from Faggot Town rolls up and spawn camps me. That fag's going down. What a fagsicle. Oh I've respawned…I'm getting shot already?!…DAMN FAGS."
Last edited by ZenChichiri on 3/26/2012 9:56:08 PM
You forgot the "N" word too. Makes me wish permanent bans were really "permanent".
That is just awful… really, amazing how bigoted some people can be!
for the most part those kind of people don't know what faggot means, which is why those kind of people suck HARD.
Last edited by AcHiLLiA on 3/27/2012 1:27:41 PM
I lol'd at the Contra reference. So true.
It really ends up being something mature gamers just have to tolerate. Articles, blogs, studies… whatever… they can be posted time and again but nothing is going to change. Seems everyone has a complaint or an all-caps-rage tantrum to throw, just some are a little less eloquent about it.
That's partly why I don't do multiplayer. Even posting a question on gamefaqs, and I mean a genuine question, can be met with unnecessary responses. People can be pretty mean and sometimes I've taken it personally.
I guess one (maybe 10) 😉 could argue i'm abit of an arrogant gamer based from some of the discussions i've had on this website with some of the members :p But truth be told, when i'm like that just let it pass, most of the time i am probably having a shite day at work & i need people to take it out on. All good, hugs for everyone 😀
The worst of it i find is online in games like SF x Tekken. Plant a headset on your ears, un-mute the volume & have a session of SF x Tekken. If you're new to the game (which shows in your stats) you will ba labelled a newbie & noone wants to know you because they don't deem you worthy, if you lose a game you're a scrub or cannot play top tier & if you win the game you're a spammer or button masher.
In a nutshell you can't enjoy winning or even losing a game without having some forever alone neckbeard or trophy spartan spitting insults in the mic like their life depended on being big on Street Fighter. Basically, if you lose you suck, if you win, you cheated. There is no inbetween because that would mean they lost!!! & that could be life threatening.
What happened to just having a good laugh & play-around with some mates & enjoying a game for what it is? The more online gaming i do the more i miss multitap couch gaming back in the PS2 era when we didn't have to constantly mute people & take petty insults over losing or winning in a game.
& people wonder why i spend most of my gaming time playing single player games. Even these days me & a few friends will take turns in solo games. Like in SH Downpour, we had three of us playing the game all taking in turns & everyone enjoyed themselves. We all got scared, talked about the scenes in the game & overall had a good game night. That is what it's all about imo. Online gaming regardless of how popular it is can kiss my sweet rosey clacker.
Couch multiplayer will never be beat imo.
Last edited by Kevin555 on 3/26/2012 10:51:56 PM
Couch multi-player rules ! One of the best 2 days in my life was spent getting drunk with almost 10 mates passing the controller around as we completed burnout revenge and resi 4 together over a weekend 🙂
Yeah it's pretty rad because you can have a yarn & joke around whilst still enjoying the game as well. Fighting games are real good if you can get a few mates around, we tend to have a fight night where the player that wins must keep fighting until he or she loses, than the controller gets given to the next person & so on, so everyone is involved. There is taunting & the like, but it's all in good fun to get eachother riled up for the fights, it's all lighthearted.
Some of my best gaming moments have been with couch gaming, i will never forget playing Silent Hill 2 for the first time at midnight with the volume up loud with a group of friends around. We were playing it in a house up in a quiet rural area of Aus so there were no worries about neighbors telling us to keep it down. Man, those were the days.
Last edited by Kevin555 on 3/27/2012 10:07:48 AM
I know exactly what you mean about silent hill 2 🙂 I got afew mates round and we played 1,2,3 and the room back to back. It was amazing, one of my friends damn near shit a brick during number 2 🙂 You can't beat couch multi-player, swapping cans, comments and the controller as ya run around a virtual world causing mayhem 🙂 I have tried online multi, but i just don't get the same buzz as when taking the piss outta my bud, to his face as he's yanking the controller round and shaking it crazily when swamped by bad guys as if it will help 🙂
One of the main reasons I stay away from multiplayer on top of the cheats and spawn campers. Ah well, if it boosts their under-inflated ego's, so be it.
cant really blame the net for hostile gamers. its not the first activity we seen hostility in (comic books, toys & etc) those mentioned have no age group either. i played sports & other activities where hostility is shown. i do admit its shown more online then in person, i guess a screen keybord mic & controller boosts esteem alot. internet gangsters on tha rise so be wise of words & content you choose for feedback lol.
You do make a excellent point there. The hostility on the Net is nothing more then a symptom of a disease this planet has.
This world is an angry place.
Agreed. My entire view of gamers as a whole changed when GT5 came out. A certain forum I visit has been home to an infestation of complaining for the past 16 months.
What I have noticed is that people hold grudges with developers and software titles as if it's personal. I just don't understand the emotional responses of some people over a video game.
It's not LIFE afterall.
The thing that troubles me is the fact that people have become so comfortable with acting like horrible human beings online that they've started to exhibit this behavior openly out in society with little regard for those around them. It used to be a time when people picked their spots to act like jerks out in public while being somewhat mindful of those around them (mainly to avoid getting their butts kicked for being jerks to being with). Now (much like Ben's article regarding people that don't know how to drive) they just don't care, even if their safety and/or freedom is at risk.
I remember seeing the signs for this back in the day when playing Quake 3 Arena and the only communication that you had with players was thru text chat, something that could be easily ignored if things got out of hand. I also remember thinking back then how cool it'd be to play Soul Calibur or MK over the internet with thousands of other players. Even back them I knew there'd be jerks, but I didn't think it'd be this bad.
Makes me dread to think what would happen if somehow arcades made a comeback in the US and these idiots brought this behavior to an enclosed place with dozens of other gamers. It would make the occasional fights that would break out over a game of Mortal Kombat 3 seem pale in comparison.
The pre-pubescent kids that swear are the most annoying. They produce the exact same sounds as bloody mosquitoes.
Last edited by Mog on 3/27/2012 2:09:12 AM
There's a good side too though, I very rarely get to discuss gaming in my daily life, but on here I get to meet so many interesting people like you guys. And sure it gets heated, but it's been a good experience in calming my inner fanboy.
This is one of the very, very few sites i ever post on as the guys and gals i have met on here are an awesomely eclectic bunch who all pass comments, advice, gaming news and great insights rather than passing aggro, abuse, fanboyism and butt-holerey.
True, World. This sort of thing is great to help me not need to talk about games with people that don't care about games. :p
Agree with both World and yourself Underdog 🙂
These same things can be experienced at just about any local dive bar. It is nothing new, the internet just allows the underage crowd to get practice in douchebaggery before they hit the legal drinking age, and can get their asses kicked in a bar. About the only other difference is the numbers are just slightly higher for the internet, hang around the bars where I'm from and you'll see what I mean.
I live in Cleveland so we just have an abundance of douchebags to start with ;D Come here and say Pittsburgh rules and see how many people are willing to throw a punch, even some of the elderly will take a swing at you, lol. And even though the city can be downright rude vocally & physically we still happen to have a very good amount of chivalry amongst our residents, who aren't currently being arrest for assult that is.
At the bar, alcohol is always a part of it. Furthermore, I've never been to a bar and heard a fraction of the horrendous stuff people post online. It really isn't comparable.
I'd like to say I agree and disagree with you. Yeah alcohol is a major contributor but it is remarkably similar to the anonymity that people get while using the internet. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a drunk person say something, that had they said it sober, they would have been ready for a fight, but since they were drunk they'll just turn and start to walk away and of course get sucker punched because of it.
I worked in Detroit last year for about 4 months and we went out to the bars just about every night. And I have to say I didn't see one fight while we were at the bars and even the verbal fights were minimal, the city seems to get a bad rap. Mind you we didn't really frequent the dive bars but we didn't go to high end nor restaurant bars either. This is were I agree with you, not all cities or bars are like the internet.
Around here it isn't like that, and this is were I disagree. Dozens of bars are shut down every year here for excessive violence, underage drinking, and drugs. The restaurant bars and high end bars obviously escape this mayhem, but every other bar is susceptible. I have heard things far worse in these bars then I have ever read on the internet, far worse. I wouldn't even consider attempting to write some of the stuff I have heard in these bars on the internet as you would probably get the attention of the NSA or Feds because of it.
Even the East Bank of the Flats which used to house the majority of the bars for downtown have been shut down and flattened(no pun intended). The politcians like to claim that it was to revitalise the area but when you ask any police officer the real reason was the violence was completely out of hand. It was to large an area and the police couldn't control it. So now they created the Warehouse District which is easily managable by the police and the crime rate has plummeted, at least for downtown. The surrounding suburbs though have taken place of the Flats. It can be hard to find a bar were you can just have a drink talk to a couple girls and go home without any kind of altercation. I understand this isn't the norm for every city, but it is around here and so in my eyes it is very comparable to the hostilities of the internet.
Complaining about hostile gamers while using words like "whiners", "haters" and "idiots" in the lead-in for the piece. Now there's irony for you. Somebody needs to take a good long look in the mirror.
It still baffles me how some people can spit out such vial and yell at a tv/monitor. Wouldn't the neighbors complain eventually?
you've given as got as you have got lately Ben… I see a difference with hostile and opinion.
I'm not the one who failed reading comprehension class and then called me a prick.
That was my friend who was insulted by your male centric article not me. Quoting.
Your friend should've actually read it. And as I said before, if she did, she isn't very bright. The points in the article were perfectly valid; you didn't post anything that even remotely addressed one of those points.
Yeah, kinda felt like it wasn't worth continuing to discuss for civility sake. You asked to me to stop so did. Now you say I didnt offer anything valid. You can't have it both ways with a discussion in my view. I respect your position as moderator Ben.
Well, you clearly didn't read the article and only responded to the headline.
There's no other way to interpret your reply. You thought I was saying gaming should only be for men, or men only play, or games aren't for girls, none of which I even implied.
I just don't like it when people respond to things I never said.
Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/27/2012 11:01:16 AM
ya, you're friend's an idiot. I read what they wrote too. You should hang with smarter women. Tell her to drop the agenda and get some optometry coverage in her health care plan.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 3/27/2012 12:18:31 PM
Actually I didn't think any of those things at all. I did read the article thank you very much, that's why I love coming here, the article/s. Otherwise why would I even bother. This is the last gaming site I actually come to on the entire internet.
In the end you mistook what I said, from your last comment that is obvious. You affirm that girl gamers exist in the article, I get that. I took issue with the entire basis for the article of maybe gaming might always be slanted to men into the long term. Even the idea that women aren't interested in fantasy I don't buy. I thought that it was above your usual writings on gender lines and was genuinely surprised by this article. That's all.
As I said before gaming right now has moved beyond setting boundaries for who is playing what in terms of age, countries etc etc. That is my personal view of now.
Last edited by SmokeyPSD on 3/27/2012 12:26:25 PM
SmokeyPSD said,"This article is out of touch. I don't need the women in my life who play games to tell me this either. Not for down the track, in the present as well."
"I don't happen to know a few, quite more than a few actually. They game harder than I do, and even have a wider interest in so called "nerdier" fields than me like tabletop wargames. Disclaimer or not, this is crap Ben, pure crap. Sorry. I would expect PSX to move on at least of this talk of a male centric gaming view but obviously not.
Everyone plays games, that's the point, young, old, male, female in the modern times we're in. You can talk about marketing, numbers throw them all you like at me but in the end, your just throwing stuff which is deflecting that key point which everyone should be embracing."
Awfully hard to see at what point it changed from your opinion to hers….. just sayin'
Yeah it never used to be like this when I was younger. There were no console wars, If I had a Sega Megadrive (Genesis for you US folk) and my friend had a SNES we'd vist each others houses to try out the exclusive titles instead of beating each other down.
You look on IGN's comment section for their articles and you get some of the most idiotic people. Some just spam about Skyrim and CoD in completely unreleated articles. Part of the reason I enjoy this webiste beyond the articles is the community. I think a lot of it has to do with internet humour. All these things like trolling, youtube poops it's all so tasteless and effortless, but people love it and it spreads like a plauge. Sort of makes me want an S3 plan from MGS2 Sons of Liberty…
But back to the matter at hand. As I have said before, I think gamers reaction to Mass Effect 3's ending is appalling. It was up to the creative team to produce an ending they saw fit to the series – players do not have the right to go against that. Heck, I thought Resistance 3 was a huge let down, but you don't see me marching up to Insomniac's door smacking the developers over the head with a newspaper telling they suck. You don't see such backlashes within movies, music or books. The closest I can think of is everyone complaining about the Matrix sequels.
As for online players, I'll admit, I don't always play by the rules. I don't get satisfaction from constant headshots. It bores me. I liek to play games for fun. For instance, not long ago when I was playing Metal Gear Online, I got my whole team to do the grenade dance (Where you swap the hand your throwing with constantly back and forth.) which was hilarious, all my team mates were marching towards the enemy doing this dance and if we got close to them and were shot the grenade would fall and kill them. I just like to play with people not bots. But then you have the over end of the spectrum, people who go out of their way to just insult people or be crude which isn't fun at all.
I think the internet has been great for showing people's true colors. Really, Ben, you're right in that it brings out the worst in people, but only because either they are too afraid to show their true colors in public or their conscience is actually keeping them at bay in real life.
In truth, people don't post online in a way that is different from their true personality.
I'm far more brutal with people in text, typing online in forums or comments. I don't pretend that I'm "not like that" in real life. I definitely have more of a filter in person. But that's more due to the fact that I don't really see it as important to correct people or tell them what I think. But in professional settings where my thoughts are important… I am equally as honest in those situations (ie board meetings, round-table discussions, team meetings, etc) as I am here in comments. Just last week, for example, I point blank said to my team leader and PR person that they were not reaching the right people, and that someone in upper management wasn't doing their job right. The difference? A big level of trust. My co-workers know I'm normally a thoughtful person, and I would only be that forward if I thought it was a concern in the context of our workplace, and that I would never intend it to be a personal slight.
(It's actually a major part of being a healthy organization)
Online with mics, though, I'm a pretty gentle dude. I don't lip at people, and anyone offensive I just mute. I'm pretty civil with a mic in online games.
So really, the way you folks see me on this site? Well, that would be a version of me in my most aggressive self. But to compensate, I try to give credit where credit is due, and I try to see other points of view (and in many cases have altered my POV based on what others have said). I have a couple pet peeves I call out from time to time. And only occasionally do I actually prod people. (ie. It's not my fault I'm usually right about everything)
What angers me is the offensive people and the people who post comments that clearly didn't even read the article. I also get annoyed at people, not for disagreeing, but who do not acknowledge other people's legitimate observations… like… out of fear of being wrong or something. (God forbid someone be wrong!)
I like the part about hitting people in the head.
just doesn't make for much civility, but apparently it's how we treat each other online when we're in disagreement.
I agree that the internet has given way to a lot of punks who fully take advantage of the anonymity it provides.
I disagree with this phenomenom only affecting videogames. I don't think you believe it does, Ben, but looking online on music/movie/sports centric websites, you don't need to scroll down to far to find the same kind of ridiculousness on blogs, forums, etc. So I don't really believe that the online-douchebaggery only affects this industry, nor is it the sole reason why other industries won't take videogames seriously.
Playing videogames online takes it to a whole new level with a microphone, though. I rarely play with a mic unless I'm playing with friends, so it can be easy to mute/ignore certain people. Others I find wildly entertaining, though. I've literally LOL'd at quite a few whack jobs who take the games way too seriously.
Of course I know it affects everything. This is about the Internet, not gamers or the game industry.
However, there's one big difference- Other industries still have a lot of print outlets, where those worlds come to the masses without the immediate feedback of readers. You'll always have a Cosmo and a Glamour. Print media in gaming is just about dead; it's 99% online.
Some observations I've noticed over the years that I think have helped to foster some of this kind of hostile me, me, me reactions I'm seeing these days…..
For one, I come from the 1950's generation where people tended to stay married more so than today.
And as kids, we were taught to show "respect" & "manners" OR ELSE! If we did sass anyone, we would wind up going to bring our parents that very same thick & heavy belt strap that dad wore, so they could whip our pink behind's with it.
Nowadays…… you've got tons single parents that can't control their little monsters. Case in point…go into any supermarket's candy/cookie/sweet cereal aisle where you'll most likely find Lil Johnny's screaming his head off till his parent gives in to all of his Goobers, Oreo's, & Cap't Krunch addictions.
Another thing, from where I see it, some of the laws these days seem to hinder good parents, & some of the kids are well versed in the law, they're quick to threaten calling DYFS if their parents even look at the kid wrong.
Then there are some parents that just have kids to get free welfare, others that are just plain clueless, and others that are irresponsible because although they never wanted kids, they were too stupid or self-absorbed at the moment, to use any form of protection.
Then there are the few bad seed kids, in which no matter what the good parents try to teach him, he still turns out to be a "Little Chucky.
Which comes to my last thought….
Add in the factor of the internet where they have the ability to hide behind a computer screen & you've got a whole lot of those same stir-fry makings of what you now see today.
Granted, not everything that I've just said above is always the cause, but I think that a lot of it has been a big contributing factor.
"I'd go out more often, but the Artificial Intelligence isn't all that great anymore"
Biker Saint, interesting post…
Last edited by Qubex on 3/27/2012 11:56:45 PM
it's very hard to deal with the cheaters and the 'kids" in rockstar red dead multiplayer the cheaters use a very powerful bomb cheat that just blows you away! then i got in a shootout with some "kid" that was yelling at me I HATE YOU I HATE YOU!!!! LOL!!
"I keep thinking that the reason professionals involved in other entertainment industries (movies, music, etc.) will never take us seriously is simple- They need only look online at the childish state of the gaming group and dismiss us all as kids who "just need to grow up." Yeah, well, we do. But it probably won't happen any time soon."
Like Jimmyhandsome said above, I think this is becoming more and more of an issue everywhere. I'm a big fan of 'The Economist' (yeah, I'm boring _and_ geeky :/), and you'd think, given it's one of the most accurate and informed sources of current affairs information in the English-speaking world that the comments sections would maybe reflect that, but they don't. Just as much rubbish and, entertainingly, just as much fanboyism (just less so for gaming consoles, lol). Websites that are replacing broadsheet media publications are just as bad.
Hell, even some of the comments on scientific stuff can be pretty messy, although they'll use bigger and more obtuse words to insult each other and back up their superiority (inferiority?) complexes :).
Top article overall though, but there ain't an industry online that can look down at us – humanity's stupidity knows no boundaries :).
People are hostile online because they have a veil of anonymity.
It's called "The Eye of Moron", it's the collective ignorance, hostility, negativity, anger, rage, immaturity, stupidity and downright nastiness of the Internet herd. It's been growing in influence for a while now. EA/Criterion gave in to it a while back with Burnout Paradise. I only hope that other publishers have more courage as we move forwards.