I apologize beforehand if I offend anyone, but this just has to be done.

But before I kick off the rant, I have to offer a disclaimer that I hope will stem the tide of knee-jerk reactions:

Our forefathers fought for the right to stand up and say, "I don't like this." We should all appreciate and treasure this freedom, especially because it sadly remains uncommon in many parts of the world. Any one of us can make a public statement; we can bring our opinions, our complaints, and our fears to our fellow citizens and peers and discuss on rational, intelligent terms. When united, those who feel wronged do indeed have some power, as it should be, as it should always be.

But here's something too few people understand these days- there's a big difference between what I just described and flat-out whining . Selfish, bloated with hot-air "opinions," self-righteous, horridly ignorant , and altogether annoying, these whiners are part of a generation of entitlement that is really starting to get under my skin. I'm sorry, but I just have to add- "Occupy" this . The hypocrisy and entitlement running rampant through such idiotic – and embarrassing – displays of a "you owe me this because I said so" mentality is the epitome of passing the buck. The epitome of laziness . Yeah, you heard me.

Now, the recent Mass Effect 3 unpleasantness was the straw that broke the camel's back, but in truth, this was only proof that the entitlement plague has hit the gaming culture hard. I am on record many times for saying I dislike the direction Square Enix has taken as a company, and what they've done to our precious Final Fantasy franchise, a 25-year series that was once beloved and revered by just about everyone. However, at the same time, at no point in either of my reviews for FFXIII and FFXIII-2 do I go so far as to claim the right of the "oppressed gamer" and go, "I don't like this so do something about it. Now."

They may lose me as a fan. But I don't claim to understand everything about how a multi-million-dollar corporation works, and I certainly don't believe I could walk into a S-E board meeting and say anything they don't already know. I seriously doubt any of us could. And let's not forget, Mass Effect 3 is a widely critically acclaimed title while FFXIII and FFXIII-2 were not (by comparison). And yet, now we've reached the point where it almost doesn't matter how good a product is? And the developers and designers are forced to listen to our demands? My only question is: at what point will any of these people be happy ?

As each year passes, I grow more and more sick of the attitudes expressed in forums and communities; it only reflects the aforementioned entitlement that has infected this entire country. This is a hobby . This is entertainment . So in the first place, anybody who takes certain subjects this seriously doesn't have enough to do . In the second place, it almost seems as if the supposed "fans" are complete masochists. They don't live to revel in the latest masterful interactive adventure; they live to complain. They exist online to prove just how superior they are to everyone – including the designers responsible for the product – and lecture on everything that costs money. I mean, it's starting to get comical.

The downloadable content fiasco is ongoing, too. People often make fine points. But those rational individuals are too often drowned out by the whiners who apparently embrace socialistic extremes and believe nothing should cost anything, for any reason whatsoever. Yes, there are problems that need to be addressed, as there is in any multi-billion-dollar/year industry. Yes, publishers can and have ripped off the consuming public. Yes, we have a right to be annoyed by that. But for the most part, taking a step back and looking at this supposedly enjoyable hobby with a clear head, one can't possibly be disappointed with the level – and quantity – of quality seen on an annual basis.

So for my fellow gamers, a friendly PSA, if you don't mind- Buy the game. Play the game. And SHUT UP. If you don't have anything nice to say, if you can't just say, "gee, that was fun; thanks 'insert developer name here,'" than just don't open your mouth. We can do without the whining for a little while. Let's just take a break and have fun again. Can we, please?

Thank you.

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TheAgingHipster
TheAgingHipster
9 years ago

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for voicing this. It's been annoying me for years now, and with the recent griping about Mass Effect 3, it's gotten to the point that I've almost stopped keeping up with the industry news.

Except here. And this article is precisely why I trust PSXExtreme over all other video game news outlets.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

Indeed. Only gaming site I visit outside of this one is GT Planet.

Naksy
Naksy
9 years ago

Well said…. If know that people are entitled to voice their opinions but i don't see why they make such a big fuss about something if they don't even like it in the first place…

fatelementality
fatelementality
9 years ago

If a game is fun to play, there shouldn't be too many major complaints to be voiced. As for DLC, ummm……cheapen it. Seriously man, if game companies did this, maybe more people would be tempted to buy it and they could make up the difference. I will never pay 5 bucks for an avatar or a weapon. Won't pay 10 for a character or a game mode. It gets out of hand when this happens. A games max price including all minor DLC shouldn't rise above 100 at the most. Major expansions (Shivering Isles comes to mind) are reasonably priced for the most part, just don't nickel and dime me to death. Actually, nickel and dime me all you want, just don't 5 and 10 me. I won't make any demands from a company, suggestions of course but never demands. Doesn't mean you will continue to get my business though. Look at at MGS3,4, and Peace Walker. When the hell was there even a cent charged for DLC (save for one decent sized MGS4 expansion)? GT5 has had MAJOR DLC esque updates for free as well. Maybe other developers should learn that this is how to attract customers that will continue to do business with them.

Naksy
Naksy
9 years ago

Free DLC really helps sales… Like the 'Peer Review' DLC for Portal 2 was an amazing expansion that they could've charged 5$ or 10$ for easily… But they din't

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

It's probably a bad idea to add your politics in there.

My 2 cents are already here: http://www.velocitygamer.com/do-great-franchises-belong-to-developers-or-fans/


Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 3/11/2012 10:46:43 PM

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

It's relevant. And I really don't care, either.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I don't see any connection with people ruined by corrupt business practices and disenfranchised gamers is all.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Well, entitlement. Don't believe the guise of most moron protesters. For the vast majority, it's just lazy entitlement and nothing more. It's the same exact thing.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I think most of them just have nothing better to do and no job.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Exactly.

Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

Always enjoy your pieces as well, World.

As for me, like Ben said in his piece, there's a big difference between voicing dissatisfaction and whining. It's one thing to be dissatisfied with your favorite franchises direction. It's another to have unrealistic expectations.

I personally don't mind ME fans voicing displeasure about an artistic direction so long as they continue to give credit where credit is due. The difference with both of your complaints (and mine) about something like FF, is that we all admit that within it's own merit, FFXIII was a great game.

Anywho, you are right about whining. I'm actually to blame for whining about whiners. I should probably just let them whine and move on.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
9 years ago

Besides video games, I see this everywhere and being done over everything.

I think those constant crybaby whiners we had in the 19 80's "me, me, me generation" has now come back in a complete full-tilt circle once again to bite us in the ass once again, as it's rubbed off on their now-30' something crybaby brats today.

And unfortunately, the whiners of today(at least in the USA) have perfected it, and they're even being aided by way too many of their same like-minded me, me, me whiny, scandalous politicians.

If it was legal to slap some effin' sense into those people, I'd have at least a few million to give out.

BorrowedTime
BorrowedTime
9 years ago

When it comes to changes in gameplay mechanics that drastically alter how long established franchises are played, I feel that gamers have every right to express their outrage towards the developers of those franchises (Final Fantasy XIII and the PS3 iterations of SOCOM come to mind). However, I draw the line at whining/griping about the direction that the story of those franchises might take.

The recent online petition to change the ending of Mass Effect 3 strikes me as being the height of hubris on the part of the gamers. What right do these gamers have to dictate the artistic decisions that the story writers have chosen to make. To me, that would be akin to readers creating a petition to demand George R.R. Martin to change the outcome at Baelor's Sept in Game of Thrones and thus rewriting the entire Saga of the Songs of Fire and Ice.

The Real Deal
The Real Deal
9 years ago

When customers feel that it wasn't artistic decisions that dictated the ending, but a financial one.

Karosso
Karosso
9 years ago

War is Coming! 🙂

BorrowedTime
BorrowedTime
9 years ago

@ The Real Deal

Who are you to say that the ending that was presented in ME3 isn't what the story writers intended? Were you on the writing staff? Were you privy to the original story draft?

The Mass Effect trilogy as told from the point of view of Sheppard might be over, but it doesn't mean that there aren't spinoffs in the works (if that's the financial motivation you're referring to then as a developer it certainly is their prerogative), or that Bioware hasn't excercised their right to leave open the possibility of a Mass Effect 4.

xenris
xenris
9 years ago

Because the story of the reapers is a complete rip of an anime series. It just copies others and gives you a very lame "choice" at the end. It smells of planned DLC. They give the illusion of a complete game, but just wait and see what they release throughout the year. Its going to be important stuff that completes the game not adds to it.

This rip off wouldn't be bad if 1) it wasn't pretty much an exact copy and paste explanation for the reapers, and 2) if they didn't hint at the reapers true motives in ME1, which was something to do with Dark Space and finding a solution to it destroying the universe.

The other reason why it doesn't seem like they intended this to be the ending is because of the endings in all of the other games they made. People were expecting some sort of epilogue like in Dragon Age: Origins.

Here is the problem with all of this. If you don't call companies out on these things, like the DLC being on disk(which most of it is, you actually have all of his dialogue and his character just not the mission) and said DLC adding a HUGE amount of insight into the ME universe that apparently only CE people deserved or people who wanted to shell out 10 more bucks.

The DLC scene is getting way way out of control. Its NOT about keeping the developers funded, its about increasing profit margin which DOES NOT go back into the game. The profit margin is because the share holders demand it. This is why you have companies like Valve releasing free DLC because they aren't a publicly traded company.

If people didnt "whine" do you know how many bills and bi laws would get passed? Just the other year they wanted to destroy one of the purest springs in my area to make it a landfill, if we hadn't whined and complained we would have lost that. People even said we were whining and that we werent thinking of the bigger picture. Our whining made it so we still have that spring which we still get incredibly pure water from.

reryan
reryan
9 years ago

Certainly any gathering of people in a niche common interest will bring up the opportunity for complaining about a common gripe. I played Final Fantasy 11 (online mmorpg) for several years and I believe it was a masterfully crafted game that was ahead of its time and I don't believe any other mmorpg to date has surpassed. However, anytime there was a content update or a change of any kind, many users on forums complained incessantly.

Now, Square Enix has been known to be a bit bone-headed about listening to fan feedback so many changes that users suggested for FFXI were long overdue. My problem was with people who, like ben described, demanded a change and thought that their 12 bucks a month fee meant that they deserved to run the company. Furthermore, any attempt at reasonable defense of SE was seen as pure fanboy-ism.

An unpopular ending to a popular story doesn't give any gamer the right to 'demand' a different ending. Should rabid harry potter fans demand that JK Rowling resurrect Dumbledore? Should Romeo and Juliet be rewritten as happily ever after? I haven't played ME3 yet, but I believe that we have to take whatever endings the developers gave us and weave it into the full picture that is the Mass Effect 3 universe.

As long as it's not as bad as the cliche "It was all a dream" endings we get when writers run out of ideas…

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I agree that we shouldn't be able to make demands or direct changes, or shouldn't ask for that, but the hope is the outrage will make the next game the better for it.

It didn't quite work out that way with FFXIII-2 but at least the bastards listened to us and tried to put FF back into FF!

Fox hounder
Fox hounder
9 years ago

Thank you ben for saying what i've been thinking for awhile 🙂

Anything that can i say has been said so… lol at Dr Evil. Good choice for a pic.

cLoudou
cLoudou
9 years ago

I blame the internet.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
9 years ago

And some clueless parenting!

crokett
crokett
9 years ago

I totaly agree and well said. I also agree it has alot to do with parenting.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I have no love for overwhelming and insane griping, but if fans don't speak up about something that ruins their favorite franchise then that opens the door to continued destruction. Developers should feel some responisiblity to fans who shelled out big money for the previous games. Does that mean they should change their ending? No but they should get a better finger on the pulse of the people who essentially funded the current product to begin with.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

I'm not really referring only to one incident. The entire trend of gamers is now, "the big businesses owe me something and I don't want to spend money on anything."

That's what I take issue with. And the complaining in general has gotten completely and entirely out of hand. Whining is all it is now. And it's embarrassing, I think.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

It's embarrassing for us folks who like to think of ourselves as level headed people who happen to game but I honestly can't say if I wasn't an 18 year old pinhead I wouldn't be spouting the same nonsense.

My point is that while Bioware doesn't owe gamers anything, they should take this kind of thing into account when they make their next game.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Personally, if I was at BioWare, I'd be so pissed I wouldn't be able to see straight. Years of hard work, constant deadlines, a stupid amount of stress; the end result being a memorable or at the very least, top-quality trilogy, and the way things are going, the only thing people will remember it for is this ending/DLC fiasco.

Zero gratitude whatsoever. And I really wouldn't be inclined to cater to those who don't appreciate in the slightest what I've done.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I suppose I wouldn't either. I still wonder if God of War IV is happening because so many were displeased with that ending (which was supposed to be the very end).

SmokeyPSD
SmokeyPSD
9 years ago

Yeah sorry, I agree with you some Ben but your tone is horrid. There is a flipside to this coin. A big one. Gaming industries are merging and as such originality and consumers are losing out in general. The industry as a whole in a terrible state in terms of industry – gamer relations. Struggling to come to terms with how fast things are moving with the technology and audiences. Gamers in general do have entitlement now most definitely but the industry itself spurs on the hate. Bioware is not the company it was before it went under EA. there is a real lack of nuance in this entire article making it come off as vindicative. There is stressors going on.

The fact is the most original and wonderful developers out there aren't to be found in big studios under big publishers. Working on the latest shade of space marine or the 4 iteration of their latest franchise they are being made to make. They are in the indie scene.

The Real Deal
The Real Deal
9 years ago

Ben: I think you might give Bioware a little to much credit. What if they didn't go through any of the stresses normally associated with a game that size. What if they cut corners, and knew because of its following it would be successful. I mean the hard work went into making Mass Effect 2, and they received the immense praise for that title.

They said on this one, well lest limit the choices on the side missions because its a pain to that all that voice over work, not to mention money. Lets trim that ending to a point where people want more, so that when we release a DLC that hints at the ultimate ending everyone that bought the game will have no choice but to shell out another $14.99.

My respect has dwindled for Bioware starting with Dragon Age 2, then SWTOR, and now Mass Effect 3. All very well reviewed, but lacking that same polish and finishing that Bioware was known for. See what i did there.

There was a time i would give Bioware all the credit in the world, that time has passed.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Sorry Smokey, that just isn't true at all. Some of the biggest studios run by the biggest companies have produced the best games of the generation. From Rockstar and Take-Two to Sony and Naughty Dog to Ubisoft. The idea that only small teams have any real talent and work hard, and the idea that all big companies "cut corners" is just corporate bias talking. It's not even close to realistic.

Real Deal: The bottom line is you don't know what BioWare went through, either. Just because you're not happy about something doesn't mean they didn't work as hard as they did in the past. So there's no real proof there. And again, this isn't about Bioware.


Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 3/12/2012 10:16:34 AM

SmokeyPSD
SmokeyPSD
9 years ago

It isn't about "how hard they work" a film like transformers takes a lot of organization and will to pull off, it does. That doesn't give the end result a free pass if depth or other elements in the end are lacking.

You also put words in my post, I never said cut corners. Sloppy design, far be it. It's bigger than that.

These big productions are sometimes "inpeccable". They however lack a real vision or if there was one, it doesn't get properly developed. In favour of what is most easily administered. Iteration after iteration. They are sticking to the script. Doing it wonderfully sure, just like Michael Bay does his thing wonderfully. Now we have DLC after DLC within an installment by these studios with talent wasted. This is the reason why Molyneux years after being with Microsoft has finally left. Some big names even jumping off to go and explore facebook. This is freaking why. In the end what talent is there in the big studios, is not given control. That has been shamefully clear this generation. The fact is Naughty Dog has managed to keep a very awesome structure to hold off what actually happens in other studios despite growth. Keeping everyone as a valued voice and not breeding in weakness. So you just mentioning them actually strengthens my point.

You say this is simply not true but I have heard constantly developers talk about these issues, developers that have left studios. How the coalescing of so many publishers/developers merging and closing have suddenly hit home.
It's negative effect on both gaming as a whole and the development community.

Your answer too, keyword in it. This generation for me.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Just mass generalization. You seem to think any sequel or new iteration in a franchise doesn't have any fresh "vision," which is never true, and has never been true, in any generation.

xenris
xenris
9 years ago

Call of Duty would like a word with you Ben. What is fresh about MW3 from MW2? What new vision do they have? Same crappy network code, same high octane ADD generic military war story with flash so that you don't pay attention to how bad the story is.

Smokey mas some excellent points and you just seem to dismiss them as his opinions. He is stating FACTS about the gaming industry. Its true. There is a winning formula for games right now, and you can see that from ME1 to ME2 that bioware, but most likely EA decided that they wanted to ditch the RPG and turn it into a shooter to pull in more people.

Oh and I know you loooove UC3, but honestly what knew and fresh vision did it have from UC2? UC2 was in my opinion the best of the uncharted series in terms of gameplay and story.

If by fresh vision you mean, trying to figure out how to earn their shareholders more profit? Then ya I agree with you.

maxpontiac
maxpontiac
9 years ago

My favorite post by you to date.

Seriously.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

By the way, if people are missing it, my point is simple-

Less whining, more having fun. It's really not more than that. 🙂

CheddarClyde
CheddarClyde
9 years ago

Man this generation of gaming has definitely brought the jerks out of the woodwork. I'm about to show my age here, but back in the SNES-Genesis days we could agree to disagree on which system and games were better. We didn't complain about endings (mainly because we were lucky if we got one) and we definitely didn't have the grapes to demand anything from the companies that made these games. I don't know if it is the mentality of the younger generations or the atrocious parenting (my generation caught the belt when we acted out), but the sociopathic, narcissistic attitudes of many immature gamers has made the "social" aspect of gaming the most toxic.

With that said, if the "endings" were deliberately made to be incomplete with the intent of coming out with $15 DLC that properly wraps the series up then I'm sorry, that is just wrong.

BikerSaint
BikerSaint
9 years ago

Yup, and in the older days people had manners & taught the same.

But somewhere down the timeline teaching manners got thrown by the wayside.

And now that there's a thing called the internet, whiners mistakenly think that they've grown big balls now.

But what they don't realize,is that it's hard to grow a pair when hiding behind a computer screen….or mama's hemline.


Last edited by BikerSaint on 3/12/2012 1:18:59 AM

CheddarClyde
CheddarClyde
9 years ago

…and just to clarify, my issues is more money here than the ending. An ending is something that I'll either love or hate based on how well it's done, but I won't demand anything from the developer if it ends up being the latter. Some people hated the endings of Se7en and Black Swan while I personally loved them. To each his own.

I haven't played any of the ME games, but my fear is a scenario where I buy a game, play it for 20-30 hours to completion and get a "To Be Continued" screen that prompts me to plop down $20 for a 2 hour DLC pack with the actual ending. From what I've heard, that sounds like the situation here though I might be wrong. I know these games are expensive to make but Christ it isn't like you aren't making your money back.

CheddarClyde
CheddarClyde
9 years ago

So very true Biker.

Temjin001
Temjin001
9 years ago

ah ha, imposter Heihachi returns!
DOn't think I wouldn't have noticed =p

goldentinny
goldentinny
9 years ago

I think what Biker said has some truth to it – let's face it, the internet does not give people any incentive to temper their responses because of the anonymity that it provides.

But I have to say that, in person, the conversations I have about games have not become much more negative. A little bit, yes, because there simply just isn't as much variety now as there used to be. But even when I worked in GameStop, and I ran into all sorts of crazies, I did not encounter the amount of negativity you find in every corner of the internet.

I have enjoyed a lot of games this generation, I am just concerned that the high overhead costs have encouraged a lot of developers to play it safe. But gamers are just as much to blame for that, let's be honest – money talks.

SmokeyPSD
SmokeyPSD
9 years ago

Can't agree on the occupy movement, the issues being raised from that and parallels to gamers… Poor form, it's not entitlement which has made up a global political movement combating real issues. Sure, maybe specific cases they haven't been doing it effectively, but a battle of ideas has been happening.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

No, it isn't. As usual, the real issues are being deadened by laziness and hypocrisy.

xenris
xenris
9 years ago

The occupy movement is about accountability. When someone is alleged for ripping off the wellfare system in canada which is a measly 400 dollars a month, which in most cases they were paying for in taxes themselves before they needed wellfare, the government secures their belongings and they can go to jail for years.

Then you have our government who "loses" billions of dollars and they are given a slap on the wrist IF that. This is what the occupy movement was about. Yes there are lazy people that want stuff for free, but there is a lot of stuff wrong with how things work in a monetary sense.

As for this article, I disagree 100% We have a right to complain and to whine. In the end it will only make the developers try harder and produce better products right?

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

xenris: No, it won't. It won't because it sounds like we're a bunch of whiny brats who don't deserve a fraction of the effort developers put into their products.

It'll have the reverse effect. It'll cause devs to just go, "well, we can't make everyone happy anyway and people are going to complain no matter what we do, so we're not going to kill ourselves this time."

xenris
xenris
9 years ago

We'll I complain and I don't buy games that do things like this. The fact that you don't think that voicing your opinion on not liking a product is laughable.

This trend, of screwing over consumers in order for planned DLC is ridiculous and the fact that you are upset about it over FF13-2 but not here is pretty silly.

ME3 gave the illusion of a complete game, but you better bet they will make us pay for a proper ending. Some people want this, in fact I would bet that this is what EA wants. I for one will not touch that with a stick, because I want to be part of the change.

If you want to say games were more expensive back in the day, that isn't entirely true either. Not every game was 100$, I remember picking some up for 20 and 30$ brand new when I was in public school. Gaming wasn't an industry so some companies charged a lot for games because only 1000 people or so would buy them.

Now you have games selling more than ever, even games that are considered "bad" are sometimes selling 500 000 to 1 million units. The video game industry is making more money now than it ever has, charging 70$ a pop then demanding 10$ for DLC every couple of months so you can get the complete experience is unethical.

Its not about entitlement its not about whining, its about seeing a trend in the gaming industry thats getting out of control.

They should be listening to us, we are the ones keeping them in business. The fact of the matter is they are doing this to please the shareholders so that they can get more PROFIT. That means none of that goes back into the game its purely for the shareholders.

Again this is why Valve is one of the best gaming companies ever, alone with CDprojekt (made the witcher) Because they give out free content updates and patches for sometimes 5 year old games(TF2 and L4D2 are good examples) This is how they get loyalty and more sales of older products, while also keeping their current customers happy and loyal.

I don't complain about every game ever released, last year many amazing games came out and I didn't have one single problem with them. The witcher 2, Dark souls, WKC2, Yakuza4, Killzone 3, BF3, Portal 2, all of these were awesome complete games.

I complain when I smell foul play, and EA/bioware smells of rot.

Gabriel013
Gabriel013
9 years ago

I think it's terribly unfair to make the assumption that the the complainers want everything for nothing. That is simply not true. What the majority of complainers want is to be charged a fair price for the best possible product. If no one called foul on diststeful business practices then they would just get progressively worse.

I do not want something for nothing. What I do want is to not feel like I am being over charged for something I enjoy.

I'm happy for pricing structured to create a profit. That makes sense. What doesn't is the practice of not maximising the quality of a product and then overcharging for it.

There are too many who just smile and nod and hand over the cash and without those who raise objection, the videogame hobbyists are going to find their pockets squeezed more and more.

As for critisism of the design choices I agree some can go overboard BUT I'd hope that the developers might consider what it is the fans don't like and use that to influence their design decisions in future. There is a fine line to walk between telling your story how you want to tell it and give the consumer what they want to buy.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
9 years ago

Sorry, but that's baloney. Look around and listen. Everyone complains. All the time. About ANYTHING. That was the point.