I don't know why it took me so long to realize it. But the latest depressing news finally switched on the light bulb:

Squaresoft is dead. Square Enix isn't what Squaresoft became; it wasn't a metamorphosis or a transformation, it was a death and a new life.

We all have to stop comparing current Square Enix business practices and products to the Squaresoft that ruled gaming back in the late '90s. The world has changed, the industry has changed, and when Squaresoft and Enix came together, it was inevitable that the old Square would change. That's what I thought . But it wasn't a change, it was far worse; it was a replacement of ideas and ideals.

This makes things easier. This means we don't have to look back on the unbelievable Final Fantasy franchise in the PS1 days, and games like Chrono Cross , Vagrant Story , Legend of Mana , Parasite Eve , and Xenogears and compare them to Square Enix games of today. It's not like comparing EA then and now. Obviously, we're talking about two entirely different companies, so why get all depressed? Squaresoft was amazing and Square Enix is okay with occasional flashes of brilliance. Brilliance that might be comparable to the unrelated Squaresoft.

Yes, I get that many of the same people are still around at S-E. I understand that. But they're hardly the "same people;" they could be aliens in human costumes but chances are, they just changed their entire approach and structure and hence, they left Squaresoft forever behind. So just leave the good ol' Square to history and memory, and we'll leave a bouquet of flowers on the tombstone. We loved you and we miss you.

Done.

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Vitron
Vitron
10 years ago

I can live with that. Not like they're the only giving life to my games anyway. I mean LV5 is still here and they don't give a damn about criticism on JRPGs.


Last edited by Vitron on 11/28/2011 9:56:15 PM

Qwarktast1c
Qwarktast1c
10 years ago

kitase's statements worry me over the HD update for FFX……

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

Yeah, but recent evidence suggests they are becoming lazy as well as incompetent, so FFX will probably get a spit polish and no gameplay changes. The only change to the game besides the graphics I'd appreciate is some lip syncing.

Qwarktast1c
Qwarktast1c
10 years ago

that would be good and addition of international content wouldn't be bad either

Zemus101
Zemus101
10 years ago

I find the battle system is pretty modern-like anyways. No proper ATB. Just a player/enemy battle order. I loved it then, and I'm sure I'd love going through it again now.

Yes, better (or any?) lip-syncing please.

Jawknee
Jawknee
10 years ago

The previous Kitase/FFVII article irked me so I have nothing but nasty things to say about Square. I'll just leave it at.

bentl78
bentl78
10 years ago

I am very confused, and I have wanted to comment for awhile now reading so much of the sqaurenix hate.. and this is not just to ben, but to a lot of the readers on PSXextreme, as I have been reading a lot of the negative comments..

From what i know, or i can find, Sqaure enix, have only made the following games for the PS3…

Final Fantasy XIII
Star Ocean: The Last Hope
Just Cause 2
Deus Ex: Human Revolutinn
Front Mission Evolved
NIER
Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light
Dungeon Siege III

so out of these games… we have.. just cause 2, deus ex, lara croft, and dungeon siege.. all from OTHER STUDIOS.. and.. dues ex, lara croft all got pretty high ratings from what i remember..

so in this generation..
the only games squarenix jp created internally was.. FFXIII
while you were disappointed, you felt "it was a good game, if it wasn't called final fantasy"

Nier: which you gave a decent score to.

and Star Ocean did above average in most reviews… 7`8 range

Front mission which flopped..

so i dont know what all this squareenix hate is about.

You say, you rather have sqaureenix stay with the same "long development cycle".. then crank out games fast like MW. Do you see the problem ben? PS3 has been out since 2006… and till now they have only 1 final fantasy game out.

Sqaurenix is a company that wants to make money. Of course they want to get more games out in a faster time. You say they should take their time and make the games better… they took.. what? 4+ years to make final fantasy 13.. but a lot of people still hate it and were unhappy. what is wrong with wanting to speed up development cycles?

XIII-2 they promised to fix many problems, and from what i read from gamespot, ign, and kotaku, it seems they are pretty optimistic…
but a lot of people are just completely saying "no way! i wont give them a chance, they are stupid"

as for your last article about ffvii remake…I totally get what kitase was trying to say.
.. if ffvii was to be updated.. they will need to pull in a lot of the resources, people, money, and time, in order to make a PS1 game look like a PS3 game, and as a game creator, if they do that, he would like to update the game and make it a "100 percent current gen" game, but he doesn't want to mess with it because people who are diehard fans, will complain like crazy…

so with limited resources, they would rather make new games, as a game creator…
and not put the resources and mess with peopel's memeories, or simply go the easy way out and be lazy just making a PS1 game a HD port. (like what most other companies are doing..).

I dont mean to troll, nor do i mean to be rude, I just want to point out what I think, just my piece of mind…

Jawknee
Jawknee
10 years ago

It's not that hard. Compare Square from all other generations to this gen and it's easy to see why we hate them so. They have competely lost touch and instead of making good JRPG's(which is what they're good at) they are focused on pandering to western gamers by buying western who only make decent to mediocre games and dumbing down their golden goose to make it more "accessible" to try and capture whatever demographic they feel they are missing out on.

If Nintendo suddenly abandoned everything they do right, do you think their fans would have the same reaction? Of course they would. This is no different in my opinion.

And you're not rude. Your comment was one and was actually a joy to read.


Last edited by Jawknee on 11/28/2011 10:28:01 PM

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

Don't worry about games they publish, look at what the nosedive they have taken this gen, not only in terms of what former fans want but in their profit which is sunk.

I challenge you to defend their moves this gen in a thoughtful way.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
10 years ago

We appreciate the in-depth reply, but you have to understand where the fans are coming from. No offense, but it doesn't sound like you were familiar with the Squaresoft we're referring to.

If you compare Squaresoft's library of work to Square Enix's, it's laughable. Sure, FFXIII was a great game and I thought Nier was underrated and under-appreciated but in the days of the PS1, everything Squaresoft touched turned to gold. They even did a fantastic side-scrolling space shooter, Einhander.

In short, we've gone from a company where fans like myself would simply see the name "Squaresoft" on a box and buy it immediately, no questions asked. These days…well, that's why we're upset.

S-E isn't a bad developer or publisher. They're just not comparable to Squaresoft.


Last edited by Ben Dutka PSXE on 11/28/2011 10:37:44 PM

Zemus101
Zemus101
10 years ago

Some people just need to go play a game like FFVI to truly realize how great Square used to be.

Hell, as Ben mentioned, just look at the side-projects like Chrono Cross, Xenogears, and Parasite Eve. I mean come on.

I'm far from giving up on Square-Enix. As Bentl78 mentioned, we haven't really seen what SE can do this gen. I still have high hopes. And their PSP games have all been stellar.

bentl78
bentl78
10 years ago

Actually I have been a big fan of squaresoft since a long time ago.
I played FF1,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,10-2,13
i played chrono trigger and chrono cross, xenogears, parasite eve, kingdom hearts 1 & 2, secret of mana, breath of fire, saga frontier.. i know there is more, i just cant remember,

Ben is right, it seemed that everything square touched turned to gold..and i used to pick up a game just cause it had their logo on it, but actually.. did you guys actually look at the amount of game squaresoft developed and published back in the super nes and playstation era? and how many never even made it to the US? if you really Wikipedia it.. u will see there are tons people have never even made it.

game development is much much harder nowadays as you guys know, a developer can crank out games with less people and less budget back in the days.. and RPGs in consoles are dominated by JRPGS, we grew up loving it… and there is always the nostalgia factors..

As i mentioned in a post couple weeks ago, i pointed out that, when developers give you the same stuff over and over, critics are gonna bash it and say "this is always the same" as a game creator, like an artist, they are always gonna look for ways to innovate and do something better. Perhaps there are mis steps, perhaps there are wrong directions taken, but as a company squarenix took on a huge project and try to make FF XIII one of the best looking games on the console.. i think most of you guys will agree it is still at the moment one of the best looking games… yes it was too linear, yes it had no towns, yes it could have been better..

HELLO GUYS.. thats what they are doing w/ -2..LISTENING TO THE FANS..
I read they are even making decisions and dialog choices in the game MATTER.. and who you have your party make a difference in dialogue choices. There are gonna be towns you can walk around in.. there is even gonna be a chocobo lady who acts a wandering merchant remember 'o'aka' people… MOG IS BACK omg.. how can you not love MOG!!

so you say they are not listening… yet they only made 1 FF game this gen.. yes.. it was a mistep.. but that was one mis step.. they use d a lot of their resouces to create the engine, and it looks fabulous, whats wrong with using the same engine, and improve on the problems and give you another FFX13.. which is much better. yet seems noone here even wants to see what they are doing in -2?? and automatically says "give me versus or die…." or give me kingdome hearts 3 (btw, i want both very bad also)…

what upsets me most is people who actually says they are garbage, because they messed up on one game.. which btw, is was still a 8 on metacritic.

They need to speed up their development cycles, so more games can come out.. so they can redeem their name. again.. give them a chance guys.. let them make a 2nd FF13.. and see how it goes.. let them come out w/ Versus.. keep an open mind.

Just my 2 cents. please comment 🙂

Underdog15
Underdog15
10 years ago

I still look at SE's 93% dip in projected net income last year and think,

"gee… maybe they really -are- doing something wrong."

Ludakriss
Ludakriss
10 years ago

@bentl78

I like the way you think, man. More people should be neutral. Yet, I admit I'm one of the haters.

Funny just the other day I spoke to my friend about how in the end the "less/simple is more" formula usually comes out on top.

Sure it was a discussion on music but I think the topic is universal.

Yeah. bentl78, top man.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
10 years ago

Sounds to me like you're just hell-bent on defending FFXIII.

Look, as far as most RPG fans are concerned, Square Enix is 0 for 1 this generation. You say it was a misstep and then say it was only "one misstep." …but that's one hell of a misstep and Squaresoft never had one in the franchise.

Plus, if you just assemble the body of work developed/produced by Square Enix this generation and even extending into last, you're going to see numerous failed experiments.

No, they're not listening to the fans. They can say what they want; when they keep going down a path fans clearly don't want, they're not listening. End of story.

Underdog15
Underdog15
10 years ago

@Bentl78
I totally get what you're saying. And when you take what their PR says at face value, you have a point.

But when I compare that to what is actually happening, I see something completely different. My two indicators are, 1) (as I said once) the 93% drop in projected sales and 2) The departure from a formula that was successful before it had a chance to fail.

I would 100% be on board with you -if- SE had done what SquareSoft had always done and failed. But they actually never got to that point. They literally just changed up their practices and -then- started failing. Mind you… not all out fail, of course. Some good things have come from them… but they are definitely not the success they once were. They were profitable last year still… but 93% less than what they expected to be.

For me, what makes me less likely to agree with you, is the fact that when they -have- made the changes they did… they suddenly became less successful. Despite making a few quality pieces. The old SquareSoft formula has never failed. It was just abandoned. If they were to go back to that, and THEN fail, then yeah… I'd buy what they're saying. But there is just no evidence that supports their point of view.

I needz more factz before I can buy in. You know? "listening to fans" is all well and good… but the record breaking return rate in Japan of FFXIII along with the company's 93% drop in the same year as a multitude of big name titles…. well… it's a little red-flag raising for me.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
10 years ago

Um, please scratch Star Ocean 4 off the list of things that SquEnix developed, the game was only published by them, it was developed by Tri-Ace.

SE isn't a patch on the game company that SquareSoft was. And this assertion that they are listening to the fans is complete balderdash. Had they been listening to the millions of FF fans in japan they would not have foisted that watered down piece of trash so called RPG FFXIII on the RPG audience. Was FFXIII a good game in it's own right? Perhaps. But it was an awful FF game and a terrible RPG, because it's not really an RPG. It sure as hell isn't a JRPG. Yet the audience in Japan clearly told them it wasn't what they wanted. SE's answer is to rinse and repeat.

Yukian
Yukian
10 years ago

They developed FFVII:Crisis Core and to my knowledge it was a smashing success, although it was for the PSP, if they would've made it for the PS3 (or a port which I'm still waiting) it would've been a even prouder bearer of the FF(VII) name.

Yes it wasn't a 100% RPG, but it still had some elements that recognizes it as one. FFXIII was a big detour, which not necessarily a bad one, that somewhat tarnished the FF brand.

And reading the "Big Bosses" of Square Enix saying about short developments cycles, sequels, utilizing foreign engines for games that have Square Enix plastered on the front, going western style on their OWN games while flailing desperately in the pool of mainstream and staying away of one of THE diamonds because are "tempted" to make a Frankenstein of sorts and they KNOW that would be the death of them for sure is what makes us say what we say.

They don't NEED to make more games. We know, with their comments and directions they're taking, that they are going downhill.


Last edited by Yukian on 11/29/2011 3:03:07 PM

bentl78
bentl78
10 years ago

Hum.. what is actually happening? As I pointed out. It took them years and years to develop a game which.. wasnt great.. yep, 1 mis step and they became 'trash'… so lets get back to. WHAT THEY HAVE DONE SO FAR. they created, Nier, and FF13. what other RPG have they created?

I am not defending sqaureenix's decisions in making FF13 the way they did.
I am just telling poeople to give FF13-2 a chance and versus a chance, and not say its crap before it came out.

Underdog15
Underdog15
10 years ago

Again… Bentl….

No one has said SE is crap.

The debate is… they aren't as great as SquareSoft, which is hardly a stretch, for all the reasons we've just stated.

CHAOS THEORY X
CHAOS THEORY X
10 years ago

:.(…

Oxvial
Oxvial
10 years ago

I accepted this when they focused more on release XIII-2 than Versus.

I don't care about them.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

I'd like to quote Cloud addressing Sephiroth in Advent Children…

"Stay where you belong… in my memories."

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
10 years ago

Excellent.

shadowscorpio
shadowscorpio
10 years ago

Ironically enough. Take a quote from a movie that Square-enix helped produce help get over the travesty that has become Square -enix this gaming generation.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
10 years ago

Irony is my strong suit 🙂

Fane1024
Fane1024
10 years ago

A wrinkle-free suit.

Riku994
Riku994
10 years ago

If Versus doesn't live up to my expectations, my final hope for SE lies with KH3… Which is another 6 years off >_<

Jawknee
Jawknee
10 years ago

Has KH3 even been announced?

Riku994
Riku994
10 years ago

It's "announced" in the sense that Nomura said he can't work on it until Versus is done.

Bonampak
Bonampak
10 years ago

Don't forget about Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance.

Nomura mentioned that that game will include a storyline that will lead up directly to KH3.

Riku994
Riku994
10 years ago

I don't really count KH3D, even though I do plan on getting it. I know I love the KH series though, but some of the handheld titles are bad (CoM, Coded). That's why I'm not putting a lot of weight on 3D. If the real KH3 disappoints me, then there's a problem.

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
10 years ago

They are not dead. What they are is a company that has changed or evolved into something that long time fans do not like. It's pretty obvious to me that Square has made a business decision and they are willing to risk alienating long term fans becuase they think they will make more than enough new fans to offset this. I think they are flat wrong in this regard, but only time will tell. For their sake the less this Kitase guy says the better. I think I found somebody at Square I like dislike more than even Wada.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
10 years ago

They're dead. Been dead for years.

JMO_INDY2
JMO_INDY2
10 years ago

Even though I'm not, nor was I ever, a huge Final Fantasy fan, it's still sad to see such a storied and legendary franchise die such a tragic death. It's a shame to see such a historic developer fall so hard and so fast.


Last edited by JMO_INDY2 on 11/28/2011 11:58:37 PM

keiichimorisato
keiichimorisato
10 years ago

well tetsua nomura is still doing well with the games he is in charge of KH is a great franchise with only one flop (CoM) VS XIII looks promising he even doesn't want to release it until he is fully satisfied with the game, if you have seen the game it already looks like it should and could be released today and it would get great reviews, it looks like a finished game but he wants to make sure the combat is polished the graphics are polished. i know graphics don't make the game but there have been a lot of attention to detail. i love games with lots and lots of clutter it makes it feel more alive and it needs to have lots of people too that is why LA noir seems boring not enough people. and how GTA IV seems barren not enough clutter

Mamills
Mamills
10 years ago

lol, only now u guys come to this conclusion?
squaresoft has been dead for a long time.
they have none of the original creators of final fantasy on hand anymore.
and quite frankly they are not listening to their fans whatsoever.
FF13 sucked in my opinion (I Youtubed the ending cuz it was such a bore.)
and ff13-2 yea, not even going to bother with that game.
and we all know versus 13 is not going to come out this gen, instead it will be released next gen so then can do multiplat. simply because too much money and time has been spent for it to be exclusive.

andas for the beloved FF7 remake that everyone asks for… Be careful what you wish for…


Last edited by Mamills on 11/29/2011 12:48:29 AM

pillz81
pillz81
10 years ago

I haven't even youtubed the ending.

BigBoss4ever
BigBoss4ever
10 years ago

Squeeeeeenix, Die and I have no tear for you cuz it is yourself dug your tomb, so go rotten with it Wada & Co., peace.


Last edited by BigBoss4ever on 11/29/2011 1:01:55 AM

gungrave
gungrave
10 years ago

I would love to see a Xenogears remake. Those loading times would kill me back in the day.

___________
___________
10 years ago

i could of told you that years ago!
though you have to admit some of the other things they have turned out have been pretty good.
i was really worried when they took over eidos, was worried they would try chance the franchises too much but they havent.
JC2 turned out fantastic, deus ex human revolutions pretty good, and tomb raider looks freaking amazing!
hitman absolution does not look too bad either.
so its not all bad news.

Lawless SXE
Lawless SXE
10 years ago

Funny coincidence, James Blunt's "Goodbye My Lover" came on as I read this article… It just seems so… apt.

I like to think that nothing and no-one ever really dies. Memory and Legacy are two things that can never really be taken away, and one only needs to look right here at PSXE to see that there is a flame still burning for the SquareSoft of old. It is a whisper of hope, but hope nonetheless, and as long as that exists… SquareSoft is not dead. It may be changed beyond any semblance of what it once was. It may be mutilated and turned inside out, but there is a chance, so long as there is hope.

Wada may be a bell-end. Kitase may have lost his way, Sakaguchi and Matsuno may be gone, Toriyama may be incompetent and Nomura may be unaffiliated with the rest, but there is hope. Maybe I'm just blowing hot air…

Beamboom
Beamboom
10 years ago

Does this mean we will get less articles about what FF could have been but is not and will not be from now on? 🙂

Underdog15
Underdog15
10 years ago

If the folks content with negative change have their way, yes. If the folks not passionate about gaming and it's storied history have their way, yes. And for people who hate letting others have a voice have their way, yes.

So hopefully, as SE continues to make public statements, we will continue to get news about it with editorials with a professional point-of-view to support it.

Call me what you will… but I still think when someone like Kitase says something publically, it qualifies as gaming news. Which qualifies an editorial if the editor-in-chief here feels so moved to comment on it.

It would be really stupid to just stop writing about it as comments continue to be made by SE. What morons do you know of would want something like that?

Beamboom
Beamboom
10 years ago

I meant it as a snide remark more than a discussion and I don't want to pick a fight with you, but since you brought it up:

The world of gaming is much, much more than something that happened on another console a decade ago.
And public announcements and comments are made from gaming companies and their emplyees _every_single_day_. And when even FF/SE fans say that SE has lost all relevance – some even say they are DEAD (would you believe?) – well how relevant is then this Kitase?

I don't feel like a moron for seeing it this way. But then again, do any moron think of themselves as one? I don't think so. So from that reasoning I probably am one. In addition, this site is infected with fans of Japanese developers. So no, I don't really expect this to end. As I said, just a remark. From a moron. I can live with that. 😉

But this is all in my humble opinion, of course. I hold only one of many different opinions. And you guys passion *is* amusing to watch, don't get me wrong!

But don't you agree: It looks like this article is somehow a kind of final conclusion. It looks conclusive? And… Well… That is fine with me. 🙂


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/29/2011 6:48:56 AM

Underdog15
Underdog15
10 years ago

But Kitase isn't just some employee of a gaming company. He's pretty near the top. We also get articles when someone like Jaffe or Kojima speak up about something popular. So I don't see how when someone as high up as Kitase makes a comment about one of the most popular games in history doesn't qualify as legitimate news.

Especially when fans wanting a remake is no small secret. When they ever-so-coyly asked if fans wanted a remake, their twitter page literally broke because of the heavy response.


Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/29/2011 7:20:12 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
10 years ago

Oh man. It all of a sudden struck me: You are absolutely right! I *am* a moron, and nothing but a fool.

Cause is what I do right here any different from those utterly annoying cod-hater messages posted in every single cod-related article, like some broken record? Probably not!

I shall remember this day.


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/29/2011 7:48:42 AM

Excelsior1
Excelsior1
10 years ago

@beamboom

That is an excellent observation. Ironic that people say Square is dead but then continue to go and on about them. I get it but it feels this topic has been beaten into the ground already. Square is dead, been dead for years…until the new story next week telling us how much you do not care again. I too hope this article is a final conclussion. It sounds conclusive to me as well. So I guess I will leave a flower, and then go buy some games from a developer who still knows how to make the types of games I like. Unfortunately these days that is usually not a game made in Japan.

Just an observation to throw out there. Skyrim is the 1st western made game to get a perfect score from Famitsu. Times have really changed.

Ben Dutka PSXE
Ben Dutka PSXE
10 years ago

You may not have noticed, Beamboom, but this is a very common, very frequently discussed, and very passionately charged topic of discussion all around the Internet.

From the standpoint of someone who runs a video game site, I think we should be trying to tap into that whenever possible.

Beamboom
Beamboom
10 years ago

To be honest I have not noticed that this is as frequently discussed on any other gaming site that I regularly visit other than psxe, no. Not saying it isn't, just that it's not amongst the sites on my bookmark list. not to this extent. It's pretty obvious that this is something you are very passionate about, and thus often find to be relevant content.

But that does not matter the slightest. I don't want you to only mirror what the other sites write about anyway. You got your audience, and I fall outside the demographics for this particular topic. I can live with that. No problem.

I do however begin to sense that also some of the other, more relevant readers (topic-wise) seem to be getting their dose of articles about how SE suck or Squaresoft ruled too. But I may be wrong.

But regardless: This place would be a lot duller without your passion and enthusiasm. Keep'em coming, boy. This really was just a silly remark from my part. And as admitted, I am bordering on being as annoying as the mandatory COD hate posts now. So please: To Be Ignored. 😉


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/29/2011 9:51:35 AM