Well, of course.

According to what Final Fantasy XIII-2 producer Yoshinori Kitase told Edge , the next main installment in the epic, long-running franchise could be an action RPG.

Kitase said that action RPG's are "becoming a trend" and "one you ignore at your peril." He added that the nature of Final Fantasy is to present something new with each entry (which I agree with, as each new iteration has been distinctly different), but the global market sees gamers moving away from turn-based systems. FFXIII featured a modernized turn-based approach, if you're wondering.

Therefore, there's every chance that Final Fantasy XV will be labeled an "action RPG."

"Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2‘s battle systems have those elements of speed and action that are the key words for us, though that doesn’t necessarily mean we’re going to stick to the same route in our next game."

I suppose I could say that gamers weren't moving away from anything , and that instead, they were forced away from turn-based because developers stopped freakin' making the mechanic , but I think Square Enix stopped listening a long time ago. Yeah, we "moved away" because we didn't have a choice, so you ignore this forced trend "at your own peril."

Whatever.

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Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

Chances are, they'll do fine on whatever new fans they bring in. If it's good, of course I get it, but it is disappointing that the series is no longer a title I await with bated breath. In other words, if my backlog continues to grow, I might not be buying this until it's on the cheap.

Still waiting for a near flawless turn-based game this gen… White Knight Chronicles was good, but I'm looking for something truly great… something of the quality FF's used to bring to the table.

Should be interesting to see how Japan handles the switch.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Considering how they reacted to FFXIII, it won't go well. People there bought the game on name value, but there was a major case of buyer's remorse and customer dis-satisfaction with the game.

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

yeah, i saw news on that too. week final fantasy 13 came out people bought a whole damn lot. by the time the second week came there were a whole lot of used games being sold at close to bargain bin prices. not to mention the outrage by japanese customers on the internet. all i can say is that thanks to the long localization period, i knew what to expect. now final fantasy for me is not a must buy game anymore.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

My Japanese friends are disgusted with the changes and many in their circles feel the same way. Can't wait to heart what they have to say about this.

They have been abandoned. Orphaned by the industry and hoping that someone.. Anyone can filll the gap. SE should "LISTEN" to their true fanbase. We understand the need to grow and expand but not at the cost of those who got you to the legendary status in the first place. So sad.

SE should just make 2 types of FF games. Action, puzzle, horror, heck make a racing game for all we care. But also make the RPG we know they are capable of. Make it Japan only if anything. Many will import if it means they get that old school feeling back.

P.S. What of VERSUS?


Last edited by FatherSun on 11/16/2011 3:44:19 PM

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
9 years ago

This is what we get for people binge whinging about XIII's battle system, S-E now feels bad from the reaction and are discarding it. I personaly liked XIII's battle system, The focus was more on switching to the right paradigm for the right moment in battle. I found myself changing all the time. I found it a fresh new way for menu activated combat. But if this and the industry is anything to go by I am sure Final Fantasy XV will be more like Nier or Fable…. Which is a shame.

From what I have seen of XIII-2 I am already concerned that it seems too action orinated. Whith its quicktime events and multiple endings. I am a little worried for it, still only a few more months and it'll be in my hands.

What I really want to know is if FFXV will be on the PS3, I want new styled FF on the PS3, sure versus is different but its still linked to XIII (somehow) What was great about the PS1 FF titles was there variety. You have IX set in the past, VII replicating modern times and VIII themed in a futuristic manner. I want a new world and new characters and a new story. If this is not for the PS3, that means the only FF on the PS3 will have been XIII… which While I like unlike most people I speak to… its just not enough.

(Yes I am aware about FFXIV coming to the PS3, But as an online game it is a completely different experience and with a monthly charge, to me is irrelevant.)

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

multiple endings? if that true then i'm really done with final fantasy, if i wasnt before anyway. i couldnt be bothered to replay final fantasy 13 and that only had 1 ending. i wonder though, how hard is it to include a turn based mode in a game as big as final fantasy? they can make a slider in the options menu on how fast they want battles to go. like a full bar would be standard or the way they meant the game to be played then the lower you go, the more it becomes standard turn based gameplay.


Last edited by johnld on 11/16/2011 12:27:04 PM

Vivi_Gamer
Vivi_Gamer
9 years ago

This is something that concerns me too. X-2 was torture to playthrough and when you reached the ending, oh wait you did not complete all the miscellaneous task to get the 'True' ending, one I heard that I just stopped playing the game altogether.

dmiitrie
dmiitrie
9 years ago

@Ultimadream: If you were any more wrong about the reaction to 13, I'd swear that you actually worked for Square-Enix. In short, people complained, quite explicitly, that it was too actiony. We didn't get this because people didn't like 13's combat system, we got it because Square-Enix is either ignorant of, or is willfully ignoring, the desires of their core fanbase.

So to blame this statement on people who were unhappy with 13 would be like seeing an ice cream shop that starting to only sell chocolate ice cream and blame the people who complained about there not being enough vanilla.

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

didnt mind the "true" ending part in x-2, i actually liked the game. i got the true ending either way because i usually play the hell out of a final fantasy game to make sure i did everything before i ended the game.

Godslim
Godslim
9 years ago

Run to the hillsssss!!! hehe iron maiden!!
noooooooo i dont want a action rpg even ff13 combat system i didnt like
i prefer FF to have a combat system more like 10 or 12.

Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

I gotta add another comment… as a passionate long time fan.

When did the traditional turn-based system stop working for them? When did that start failing? What caused them to think that they need to completely change what the games are all about and have been about for 20 years?

Nothing… They've always had success with their turn based element. FFX was seen as a staple for the PS2 and nothing rivaled it for years. And everyone thought so!

And don't give me that BS about how it's because we didn't have the tech to give a high quality action game. It's just not true. Look at the God of War series. Yet Dragon Quest 8 and FFX came out for the same system to incredible critical acclaim…

So, when they finally remove the one element that has been the foundation of the franchise's 20 year gameplay and score a meta average full point lower than other entries in the series…. they believe it's because… the games before XIII weren't good enough? The ones that were successful from critic, user, and monetary feedback?

It just doesn't make sense…

Have they just run out of ideas for turn based? I know they say they always change their games, and that's true… they have… but until now, they've always been able to mix it up with variety while maintaining that turn based foundation! FFX-2 was fairly fast paced, and that battle system was fantastic! (Even if you hated the dialogue of the game, that battle system was top notch!)

I mean… if they had stuck to their guns and kept their turn based elements where AUTO battle isn't necessary… and THEN it had incredible backlash and a lack of success… then yeah… they would have a right to believe they need to make their games more actiony to keep up with the times.

But the traditional approach hasn't failed them… it's their new attempts that are failing them.

It just…. doesn't… make… sense. They haven't even given their 20-year established approach a -chance- this generation… not even a -chance- to succeed! How can they conclude it's not what gamers want…

I mean, really! They have always been a guaranteed success. ALWAYS. But lately, they've made FFXIII and FFXIV. The latter of which is a disaster, and the prior, while good, could not keep up with past titles. By a full 10% in meta critic averages! Should that not be a sign that drastic change is NOT working for them? That maybe, they should return to a working formula? Apparently not!

I really hope Ni No Kuni sells like mad….

Arg!

/rant/


Last edited by Underdog15 on 11/16/2011 10:31:26 AM

main_event05
main_event05
9 years ago

*Cough, Microsoft

daus26
daus26
9 years ago

Yeah, I hope Ni No Kuni will sell loads. Just maybe, it'll make SE re-think their thoughts. At this point, I doubt it. They'd have to hire a new chairman, at least.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

I'll be buying Ni No Kuni, as will my wife.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 11/16/2011 10:56:36 AM

shadowscorpio
shadowscorpio
9 years ago

Well warranted rant Underdog15 and so damn true.

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

i think its more about greed than turn based failing them. turn based games was basically a niche market back then. there were more than enough fans of the system to keep square enix going. then they saw call of duty success, which i think square enix publishes in japan, and decided they want more. granted the games production value is as high as they usually make final fantasy games but they just completely ignored their long time followers with final fantasy 13.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

There is a SPECTACULAR flaw with your comments.

They are based on LOGIC. Something SE seems to have lost in this generation.

main_event05
main_event05
9 years ago

To be fair to M$ I kinda place the blame on Kingdom Hearts. KH and FF12 came out at bout the same time and I kinda think that because KH was so successful with the Action/RPG elements that became the norm. However, I think that SE failed to realize that, at the time, KH appealed to a much larger demographic that FF did, not that FF12 was a flop, but still. That's my take on it.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I guess we should have seen that coming, what a crock of sh*t. People wanted them to go BACK to what works, not follow lame trends. This would be like Elder Scrolls ditching open world or Gran Turismo ditching simulation.

The only thing they ignore at their peril is the fans. FF can only tank further on this path. Let Versus and other spin-offs handle the action RPGs.

"Alas poor Final Fantasy, a thousand times it bore me upon its back, and now how abhorred in my imagination it is. My gorge rises at it." To paraphrase a certain someone.


Last edited by WorldEndsWithMe on 11/16/2011 10:34:46 AM

daus26
daus26
9 years ago

"Gran Turismo ditching simulation."

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!! Eek!!

It's that bad huh? That's serious. If this is how you guys really feel about SE ditching old school gameplay, I pray for you guys that there will be other developers/publishers to deliver even a better experience. I'm so sorry guys. 🙁

Quincho
Quincho
9 years ago

yup, thats exactly how we feel! it doesent make sence! WHYYYYY!!


Last edited by Quincho on 11/16/2011 11:18:30 AM

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

@world

if i'm not mistaken, arent you buying final fantasy 13-2 day 1? does that change you mind about 13-2 or even ff14? as for me, the final fantasy franchise has dropped off my must buy list. it was probably sitting on my #2 spot right behind legend of zelda. if final fantasy games are leaning towards action now, then i dont want a final fantasy 7 remake. we all know they're not gonna listen to fans anyway so let that die already.

WorldEndsWithMe
WorldEndsWithMe
9 years ago

I am, I'll be getting it for $24 after using some rewards. I do have a massive beef with the changes to the series, but although XIII wasn't what I wanted it was still a very good game and XIII-2 has clearly demonstrated that it has overcome most of the issues XIII had. As much as I prefer the old school play you still have to roll with the punches in these dark times.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

Little Johnny LOVES PIZZA , sooo… Lets give him cake.. What? He hates cake.. Ok.. Give him salad. What? He hates salad too. Ok.. Lets give him some potatoes… No… Maybe somthing else.. Getting worried.. Johnny is not eating.. What to do?

Hey SE .. How about you give the kid some PIZZA!


Last edited by FatherSun on 11/16/2011 4:00:33 PM

dmiitrie
dmiitrie
9 years ago

Almost despite myself, I held out hope that Square-Enix would somehow find a way to put out a good, quality title like they used to with such regularity. But after the disappointment of 12, the travesty of 13, and now this, I think it's time for me to throw in my towel.

Oh well, I got 20 years out of Final Fantasy. That's better than any other series.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

My personal sentiment has shifted a little, I am still mostly in the; "So who the hell are SE? Oh, that's right, they're dead to me." school of thought. But part of me says f**k them, they're a$$h***s. Yes, even I think with words like that sometimes.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 11/16/2011 10:55:37 AM

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

"Oh well, I got 20 years out of Final Fantasy" – I like that way of thinking. Keep the good memories and move on!

Nothing last forever, right? And 20 years is an amazingly long period! Think about all those who only get 2-3 titles in a franchise they love!


Last edited by Beamboom on 11/16/2011 11:38:51 AM

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Not helping Beamboom, not helping.

Beamboom
Beamboom
9 years ago

lol -ok sorry 😀

johnld
johnld
9 years ago

you have to say though, quality wise square enix on top of its game. i loved X-2 and 12, although i didnt like the political crap that tied 12 together. they just got greedy and believed that all the fans they lost with 13 will be replaced with new fans. i guess when squaresoft merged with enix, they stopped being a game company and started becoming a corporation. they didnt make games to make games anymore, they made games for profit and nothing else. i think thats why most of the people who were the key players of squaresoft are leaving square enix.

dmiitrie
dmiitrie
9 years ago

@johnld: That all depends on how you define quality. It's never been in question that Square-Enix has always been one of the best developers in terms of production value. For all the things I hate about it, 13 is one of the best looking games I've seen.

But I, for one, am relatively unimpressed with production value. Don't get me wrong, it's important and games should definitely always look as good as they can, but it really should be a secondary objective.

Nothing trumps gameplay. If a game is fun to play, a whole host of lesser issues can be forgiven. Bethesda routinely gets hammered for flaws in their games, but people still buy them because, at their core, Bethesda makes fun games. Likewise, despite all of the things they do exceptionally well, I believe that Final Fantasy will eventually see their sales go down significantly because they've abandoned a gameplay mechanic that they core audience values very highly.

So, to refute your point a little more succinctly, no, Square-Enix is most decidedly NOT on top of its game and hasn't been for nearly 10 years now. 12 marked the most dramatic shift in mechanics at that time, and was relatively poorly received. The common complaints being that they tried to make it too much like an MMO. And then came 13 and now this announcement for 15. Each game being a cumulative abandonment of the style of game that attracted their core fans to begin with.

FatherSun
FatherSun
9 years ago

What I dont understand is why they made drastic changes then act surprised by the backlash. If I make a killing on selling something, would I stop selling it completely to sell something else. No, I would experiment with the new product to see if it sells. Maybe then will I diiscontinue the old product.

SE is brilliant. But they seem lost. Hopefully someday they will regain that magic. I wish them luck.

main_event05
main_event05
9 years ago

This is a non-issue for me. I'm not even considering thinking about the decision of whether or not I should even make the choice ignore any future Final Fantasy.

Fun Fact #315: I have yet to finish FF13, and I'm really not that torn up about it.


Last edited by main_event05 on 11/16/2011 10:41:10 AM

daus26
daus26
9 years ago

I don't believe it. It's not that I don't see it coming, but I can't believe it's really going to the point where a non-spin off, full-fledged FF title is going to be action oriented in gameplay.

And I agree. That one statement is just ridiculous. How is it moving away, if we never had the choice in the first place. Are they looking at Western RPGs and how well they're selling? Are they looking at JRPG scores from critics? I guess it's pretty clear that they're definitely not looking at the perspective of the hardcore fans.

This also reminds me of how annoyed I am on how my native, asian country have been really westernized. The majority pretty much uses english, and they use songs that are from the U.S. in their movies, commercials, etc. I mean do they not have their own culture and language? Is Japanese gaming going in the same direction?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

I sure as hell hope not Daus. I for one love and have loved that Japanese flare and culture for decades, the influences it brought to gaming have been the most valuable aspects of gaming to date. If those things are washed away in a wave of westernization, or Americanization, it's not just a tragedy, it's a crime. If Japanese culture is overcome by Western/American culture, it's nothing less than a crime against humanity. I'm sick of the cultural imperialism of America, much of which is not even consciously sought, but rather happens as the result of the financial impact of the US in the World economy.

Quincho
Quincho
9 years ago

Globalization sucks!! we should celebrate our differences not erase them!

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

So if Japan wants to be more like the West it's America's fault?

Right….

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Considering the Americanization of The UK and Europe as well, YES.

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

I was just in Europe for a month and it didn't seem Americanized to me. In fact I felt very far away from home in 99% of the 15 plus countries I visited. If another nation choses to be more like the US that's their choice. No one is forcing them. Blame them. Not America. I felt the most home in the UK but it was still very foreign.

Not sure why you always try to make your adoptive country the boogieman when it comes to this topic. If Square feels they need to appeal to the West(as much as I disagree that they do) that's their own folly and their own choice. Don't libel 300million of your fellow countrymen as being imperialist's just because you're pissed off at Square for making stupid decisions.

And please don't take this as me trying to pick a fight with you. If you or anyone else are going to shoehorn in criticism of the US into your rant about a video game company, I'm going to defend us if I feel I need to. I personally don't see how one has to do with the other. Japan is free to make their own decisions about the direction of their culture as well as Europe. Reserve accusations of imperialism for when it counts. Like when Japan tried to take over Asia and England tried to take over Ireland and did take over Scottland.

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Jaw, I won't debate this in this thread. All I will say is that as a native of the UK and Europe, I see the distorting effects of American culture everywhere. You may not, but then your perspective is utterly different from that of Europeans.

And, do not imagine that I am trying to shoehorn criticism of the US into any comments. I chose to live in this country, I love this country as much as the next person, if not more. It's not somehow anti-American to recognize the cultural power of the US. If you read my original post in this reply, I said very clearly that the cultural imperialism in "not even consciously sought". The impact of the US is disproportionate to it's economic size and population, that is a fact, but that impact, or influence is not consciously directed, but it is a fact.


Last edited by TheHighlander on 11/16/2011 11:48:29 AM

Jawknee
Jawknee
9 years ago

My point is these Europeans you speak of are free to chose. They make the choices that change their culture. We're not making them. As I said, I spent a month in Europe. I talked with a ton of people from all over the mainland as well as the UK. None of them seemed to present the kind of Anti-American attitude you claim they have. They loved it that we were from the states and could not hear enough about where we came from. Especially the one from poor more oppressed nations like the Czech Republic and Croatia.

You're using the wrong word then in describing this "not even consciously sought" imperialism.

Imperialism.

1.
the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.
2.
advocacy of imperial interests.
3.
an imperial system of government.
4.
imperial government.
5.
British . the policy of so uniting the separate parts of an empire with separate governments as to secure for certain purposes a single state.

Like it or not when it comes to world economics we're all in this together. Otherwise the fallout in nanny states like Greece and Italy wouldn't have a direct affect on our markets like they do.


Last edited by Jawknee on 11/16/2011 11:58:25 AM

Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

As a Canadian (Canada being a Commonwealth country), I want to add that it's mostly to our benefit that we are apart of that commonwealth. In 1867, we had our Confederation which officially made us our own country separate from Britain, but our relationship is still very strong. Over time, more provinces joined in.

Not arguing one way or the other here. Just saying….

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Who did you say? Square who? I'm sorry, I've never heard of this bunch, they must be some obscure has been company that screwed over their fans and abandoned what had worked for their previous several dozen games. But No, I don't know the name at all, it's almost like they're dead to me or something.

Quincho
Quincho
9 years ago

Im pretty shure they died, I think I read it some where… or maybe It was a dream… good enough for me…

Lotusflow3r
Lotusflow3r
9 years ago

Mentality = Correct.

Dancemachine55
Dancemachine55
9 years ago

Wada and Co killed the company, not Final Fantasy XIII.

Square's mentality and new direction killed the company, not FF XIII.

Adapting to mainstream formulas rather than evolving your own unique ones are what killed Square Enix, through Final Fantasy XIII.

Zemus101
Zemus101
9 years ago

I'm a long time FF and RPG fan in general. However, I'll reserve my opinion on this until I finally get to play FF Versus. We'll see how it goes.

Underdog15
Underdog15
9 years ago

That game still exists?

TheHighlander
TheHighlander
9 years ago

Only when they figure out how to get it on the 360, along with FFXIV of course.

Zemus101
Zemus101
9 years ago

Well… FFXV is far from existing. At least we've seen extensive gameplay of FFVsXIII