Ben-DutkaI'm only going to say this once, Square Enix, so listen closely. And bear in mind that I'm fairly certain I speak for the overwhelming majority of Final Fantasy VII fans.
Here's how you can avoid turning the upcoming remake into a total travesty. And don't pretend that's not a risk; we've all seen your track record with this once-great franchise. So, here it is:
Do not erase, merely add.
There, did you get that? Maybe you should read it again, just in case. It's pretty straightforward if you think about it; you simply have to refrain from chopping up this classic RPG and turning it into something that is not an RPG . We all know you won't put in the same turn-based mechanic and yeah, I know why. However, there are ways to update that mechanic without completely changing it. If you want clues, you might want to look at games like Child of Light .
Many developers, especially on the indie side of things, have proven that you can get very creative with turn-based systems. However, I know you guys don't like to do that. Based on Final Fantasy XV , I think we all know which direction you're going with the FFVII remake. But you might want to consider reigning in the impulse to go too nuts. In fact, I think a version of the mechanic in Final Fantasy XIII-2 would work exceedingly well.
Now, if you want to make a real-time action game – with the emphasis on action as opposed to role-playing – then it's your funeral. You can add story elements and even give the dialogue a much-needed update. You can add new systems and even new characters. You cannot subtract . Perhaps just leave the old systems in place for those of us who have no interest in action? Other remakes have done it, so why can't you?
Above all else, you need to retain the core, the spirit of FFVII. I already see it languishing under that seemingly darker tone and style. If you stray too far and this is unrecognizable as FFVII, then it will be the apocalypse in the eyes of die-hard fans. Really, this isn't difficult; just make everything better without losing the original focus. You can do that, can't you?
Related Game(s): Final Fantasy VII Remake
Unfortunately, I kinda doubt that they can.
I think turn based games can still work. I mean, look at Lost Odyssey. That was a modern game using a turn based system, and it's one of my personal favorite games.
However, from the last post about this, it sounds like they are planning on remaking it different to not take away sales from the port. Which, in my opinion, is really, very, unequivocally dumb. Me and my friends literally couldn't care less about the port. Just remake it!
Unfortunately, Lost Odyssey is no longer considered modern.
I don't understand why people think turn based is an outdated way to play rpg's. I like controlling a whole party of 3 or more characters and turn based is the only way to effectively do it. Real time is better for a single character, in my opinion.
Last edited by tes37 on 6/18/2015 10:33:57 PM
Agreed. Turn based RPGs are far from outdated.
imo Dragon Age did real time party right. Not that I want it for FFVII.
Turn-based is not the only way to control a party though. It's enough to just freeze the action and issue commands to the members, like BioWare do in their games.
But there's plenty of modern, turn-based games being released today – Xcom comes to mind as one excellent example – and people buy those games so I don't see why they can't keep that mechanic.
I adore the Active Time Battle turn-based gameplay of FF VII. The only real change from a gameplay perspective I'd want to see is an instant switch from exploration to combat, on the same screen, without a fade in/out screen like in the original.
Oh, and the ability to skip/cut down summon animations 🙂
I will just say this again I still feel FF XII had one of the absolute best combat systems in a Final Fantasy game. I felt it mixed real-time and turn-based perfectly and still allowed full control over all party members.
Just whatever they do it better allow full party control.
Last edited by Shauneepeak on 6/18/2015 11:13:08 PM
Agreed
I suppose if you want vanilla FFVII with new skin, you'll have that sooner with the PC remastered version.
For the reboot/reimagining of FFVII we'll have the COD meets FF.
If they're smart they'll do something similar to the battle system from Chrono Cross, which is the best RPG battle system ever invented.
But they're not smart.
Something similar to FFXII's system would make me happy.
?BAHHHH no field battles in this game!
This really is their last chance at redemption. If they succeed at making FFVII remake a masterpiece by retaining what made it a masterpiece to begin with, then they will rise from the ashes like a phoenix and be reborn. Square will then again become what they once were, anew.
However they mess it up and don't learn from their mistakes, they will be cast out into the abyss and fade into nothingness, never to return.
Last edited by Lone Wanderer on 6/19/2015 12:48:13 AM
So if they remake the same game they made 18 years ago they'll be reborn as a developer?
"We all know you won't put in the same turn-based mechanic and yeah, I know why."
Will you bet your head on this? Because I won't, so you better speak for yourself next time.
Anyway, if they NEED to change it, I agree with FF13/13-2 battle system as it was somewhere between action and turn based, with more of the latter. FF12 system would work too.
I am betting I am the ONLY person on the face of this planet that made a chocobo that could cross the waters and get The Knights of the Round summons WITHOUT any guides. I rock.
You definitely aren't. The chocobo sage tells you exactly how to do it. I did it, too.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/19/2015 8:45:20 AM
Figuring out how to get a gold chocobo isn't the hard part. It's dealing with the tedium of all the ridiculous steps you have to go through.
The only thing I hated was trying to catch the ever rare Wonderful chocobo. I never seem to have the luck some of my friends had in finding one in the first 1 or 2 encounters.
You'd be wrong.
What they should do, but won't, is include their updated version with the remake, and let us choose which game to play. Instead of selling both separately, let us buy the remake, get the updated version free. Disc or download. That way, we can all enjoy the original, and if they want to ruin, I mean remake with changes, we have that one as well to play. Avoids the competitiveness of both titles he was on about.
It's not going to be turn based. I am willing to even bet on this. We'll certainly still have the Materia system but i will not be turn based.
What I care for more is about the feel of the game. When I leave Midgar I want the sense of expanding into a worldly adventure you get in the original. I don't think we'll be getting a wolrd map like Ni No Kuni either… so I am interested to seeing how they achieve this.
I also think they'll include more of Vincent, not as a secret character this time. I mean he got his own game in Dirge of Cerberus (I know… I know…). Same goes for Yuffie, she has made many appearances in Kingdom Hearts & Crisis Core, so I believe she wont be optional either.
As long as they keep the spirit of the original I am fine. If there is anything I really detest it would be flying anime styled characters like we saw in Advent Children, none of that please. I want these to be grounded people with extra the ability of magic. If they fly I first want to see them activate float 😛
I just hope for the fans sake this doesn't become one of those development hell scenarios where five years later the game still doesn't have a release date. I mean they still haven't released Final Fantasy Versus yet have they? How long has that been in development for?
I really hope this trailer wasn't put together just to silence the masses only for it to be forgotten about five years later when there still isn't a release date given. This is a mammoth project, i just hope it doesn't end vanishing into blackness and being remembered for just that trailer. That would be just cruel.
Last edited by Kevin555 on 6/19/2015 4:16:05 AM
"I'm only going to say this once" -> Wanna bet on that? 😉
My only question is voice actors or not. I can see it going either way bad and good. I cant imagine what Cloud would sound like.
Probably exactly like this:
I'd bet dollars to donuts on voice acting.
I just hope they cast someone besides Mena Suvari to play Aeris this time. Probably not since she's been the voice in both the movie and the KH games, but ugh she is terrible.
The Cloud voice actor in Advent Children is perfect.
Yeah most of the voice acting was pretty good in AC, including Barrett and Cid. Mena Suvari almost makes me glad Aeris dies, though.
I thought KH1 had Mandy Moore?
Edit: Just checked. Yeah, KH1 was Mandy Moore. Mena was the other Aeriths in Kingdom Hearts. Adrea Bowen did an OK job in Crisis Core. Maybe her? I also noticed in KH2, Christopher Lee was DiZ. Made me shed a tear.
Last edited by Underdog15 on 6/19/2015 1:10:11 PM
I haven't seen Advent Children since it first came out, but from what I remember I thought the voice actor who played cloud sounded pretty good.
Steve Burton has done Cloud in everything that had Cloud voice acting. (Crisis Core, Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts, etc.) He's a great fit, for sure.
I think if they want this remake to be amazing, and cater to both old fans and new potential fans all they have to do is look to Ni No Kuni for inspiration.
I know the combat was a bit to action based for your liking Ben, but it essentially used an ATB system much like was in FF7 all those years ago.
They could make the combat all happen on screen but you can't attack until your ATB bar fills up, then you can pick an attack combo, magic or item etc. If they kept the speed of this relativily quick I think you could make everyone happy.
They could also have a cool world map like NNK, I really want to see this.
Alternatively they could go the route of FF12 which I adored, combat wise. They could tweak the AI systems and make this work really well. The world map could operate similar to FF12s as well only will less load screens.
I think those two options for the combat are the best choices for them in not pissing everyone off.
I hope they add story elements that maybe they cut from the original due to time constraints, and blend in some of the things from Crisis core. This needs to be subtle and not take away from the feel the original had.
And I hope they get the voice actors from Advent children and KH to play their characters.
However they will probably just copy FF15 or something which isn't terrible but I don't really think the fans want this.
I agree to add and not subtract. All the main scenes have to be there.
Including the bitch-slap fight between Tifa and Scarlet.
I'm just hoping the lesson from Bravely Default and the returned forms on their surveys show them the way with the battle system.
I wonder why SE doesn't have a poll for this game to determine what the fanbase would want to see in the game? To me, thats the best way to guarantee a smash hit.
Also, I wonder if it will feature random encounters like the original, or will we see actual enemies on the map? I hated the random encounters…I used to play with an expensive speaker system and the loud music seemed louder than the normal sound when you started a battle…
hopefully that's next
Random battles are the worst. They were a necessary evil, for the most part, in the early days of RPGs (but even Chrono Trigger had most enemies visible on the map), but these days they're just inexcusable.
I still don't get why Square created the perfect battle system for Chrono Cross and then never again used any part of it. Visible enemies, complete party control, fluid combat, no stupid time bars, the ability to switch back and forth between attacking characters at whim, mid-attack counters, field effects on magic, multiple limit break-style moves that can be used every battle, dual and triple tech attacks, and being able to automatically heal after battles with unused elements and consumables. All of those things are awesome, and Square ditched all of it except for (eventually) visible enemies and party control.
I couldn't agree more with you, Ben.
If anything, I wish they would add more about Zack so we can find out more and maybe even play through his eyes.
I think if they want this remake to be amazing, and cater to both old fans and new potential fans all they have to do is look to Ni No Kuni for inspiration.
I know the combat was a bit to action based for your liking Ben, but it essentially used an ATB system much like was in FF7 all those years ago.
They could make the combat all happen on screen but you can't attack until your ATB bar fills up, then you can pick an attack combo, magic or item etc. If they kept the speed of this relativily quick I think you could make everyone happy.
They could also have a cool world map like NNK, I really want to see this.
Alternatively they could go the route of FF12 which I adored, combat wise. They could tweak the AI systems and make this work really well. The world map could operate similar to FF12s as well only will less load screens.
I think those two options for the combat are the best choices for them in not pissing everyone off.
I hope they add story elements that maybe they cut from the original due to time constraints, and blend in some of the things from Crisis core. This needs to be subtle and not take away from the feel the original had.
And I hope they get the voice actors from Advent children and KH to play their characters.
However they will probably just copy FF15 or something which isn't terrible but I don't really think the fans want this.
I wonder why SE doesn't have a poll for this game to determine what the fanbase would want to see in the game? To me, thats the best way to guarantee a smash hit.
Also, I wonder if it will feature random encounters like the original, or will we see actual enemies on the map? I hated the random encounters…I used to play with an expensive speaker system and the loud music seemed louder than the normal sound when you started a battle…
hopefully that's next
I couldn't agree more with you, Ben.
If anything, I wish they would add more about Zack so we can find out more and maybe even play through his eyes.
Random battles are the worst. They were a necessary evil, for the most part, in the early days of RPGs (but even Chrono Trigger had most enemies visible on the map), but these days they're just inexcusable.
I still don't get why Square created the perfect battle system for Chrono Cross and then never again used any part of it. Visible enemies, complete party control, fluid combat, no stupid time bars, the ability to switch back and forth between attacking characters at whim, mid-attack counters, field effects on magic, multiple limit break-style moves that can be used every battle, dual and triple tech attacks, and being able to automatically heal after battles with unused elements and consumables. All of those things are awesome, and Square ditched all of it except for (eventually) visible enemies and party control.
Probably exactly like this:
Unfortunately, Lost Odyssey is no longer considered modern.
Unfortunately, I kinda doubt that they can.
I think turn based games can still work. I mean, look at Lost Odyssey. That was a modern game using a turn based system, and it's one of my personal favorite games.
However, from the last post about this, it sounds like they are planning on remaking it different to not take away sales from the port. Which, in my opinion, is really, very, unequivocally dumb. Me and my friends literally couldn't care less about the port. Just remake it!
I don't understand why people think turn based is an outdated way to play rpg's. I like controlling a whole party of 3 or more characters and turn based is the only way to effectively do it. Real time is better for a single character, in my opinion.
Last edited by tes37 on 6/18/2015 10:33:57 PM
Figuring out how to get a gold chocobo isn't the hard part. It's dealing with the tedium of all the ridiculous steps you have to go through.
"We all know you won't put in the same turn-based mechanic and yeah, I know why."
Will you bet your head on this? Because I won't, so you better speak for yourself next time.
Anyway, if they NEED to change it, I agree with FF13/13-2 battle system as it was somewhere between action and turn based, with more of the latter. FF12 system would work too.
So if they remake the same game they made 18 years ago they'll be reborn as a developer?